Saving Domebo

[Sarahfeena]

I don't think it's any big secret that we are having big problems at domebo. I am hoping that we can fix that, and we need input from everyone. First, I'd like to outline what I see as the major issues. Please note that these are coming from me and represent my opinions only. I am posting this to get feedback and hopefully get people on board to make some big changes, in fact, it might be better to think of it as a complete overhaul. The things I think we need to figure out are:

1) The general philosophy. This place was founded on transparency and group rule. While I think the spirit of this is important, I think that perhaps it was interpreted too broadly. Having the whole board weigh in on every decision is problematic, at best. What we need is a strong, reasonably well-respected mod staff who we trust to make board decisions on our behalf. AND the ability to replace mods if they aren't working out. We need, IMO, to focus on solving problems through moderation, vs. being afraid to take a stand. On the other hand, we need to be able to distinguish between things that need moderation and things that don't, and in order to do this we need active mods who can help each other. Which is not to say that every mod needs to be involved every second of the day, but we do need mods who are willing to invest in this board. I know we just eliminated some mods, but if this means adding one or two more, we may need to do that. And not through elections, please!

2) The leadership. This is CRSP's board, and I respect that. But sometimes, big decisions have to be made. In the beginning, he was doing that, but lately he has seemed less interested. Responsibility for admining AND modding has fallen on What Exit's shoulders, including a lot of unnecessary drama, and he is getting burned out. If we lose him, we are in big trouble. He needs help making both the big and small decisions...from removing mods when need be to getting our banner on all the skins and the front page. If CRSP doesn't want to do it, then we need to figure out another solution.

3) Domain issues. I'm not sure if folks are aware of this, but What Exit? has been blocked from Domebo at work. Elmwood over at Giraffe explained to us that we have probably been classified as a "social networking" site (vs. a messageboard) with websense or some other major webblocking software, due to our chat function. Apparently, many work places block social networking sites. So, if this is what's causing Jim's problem, then others may have the same problem, which will cause our traffic, small as it already is, big problems. So, we are going to need to figure out how to fix this...perhaps a new doman and IP address will be necessary.

4) Chat. I know chat is controversial, but I think it is part of the culture of this board at this point. That being said, there needs to be a true effort towards ensuring that it is an asset more than a liability. Which IMO means that there needs to be tighter restrictions on what goes on there, with all fights being moved to the TDome, or even 101 if necessary. For better or worse, chat is the "face" of the board to the outside world. When people encounter unfriendliness there, they assume the rest of the board is the same. We chatters need to be ambassadors for this board, or we will be the only people left here. Chatters need to also have personal committments to posting on the rest of the board (I include myself in this and will make a stronger effort, I promise!)

A couple other issues with chat: 1) it seems to be the cause of our blocking problem, and 2) the code apparently sucks donkey balls, and causes much frustration for What Exit? and McNutty. McNutty has been very kindly giving us use of his server, but he is very busy now with the new wee one, and might be glad to have some pressure taken off his shoulders as well. To this end, Giraffe kindly made some suggestions today: First, that vB has chat plug-ins, so if we switch to that, the code problems should be solved. Also, that we could switch to a managed host, such as URLjet.com (their original host), which will take the load off McNutty and may help solve the blocking problem (? I think? I don't know too much about the technical stuff!) Whether or not we will get classified as social networking again due to chat, I don't know, but if anyone out there knows about that and can help us, please don't be shy!

So, that's how I see it. In closing, I want to say that I love this board, and want it to succeed. It doesn't have to be the busiest board on the internet, or even as busy as Giraffe. But I would love for it to be a place that people don't leave because they are bored to tears, either! So, please, tell me what you think...let's get this place going again!

Oh, and one last note...as soon as I post this, I am going to send an e-mail to CRSP, letting him know I have posted it, and asking for his help and input.

[Myrnalene]

Unfortunately I cannot comment on this at length because I have to go to bed soon and I won't be on very much tomorrow. But I don't have an issue with anything Sarah has said here and I agree with the issues she is targeted here (in fact we all kicked these ideas around earlier, in the dreaded chate. :wink: )

Re: Chat - there's something that we can do right now. Every single person in chat (starting with me) can take responsibility for not fighting in there. No more fights there. None. Our mods don't need the hassle, and our front page doesn't need the drama. I'm not saying that chat has to be all sunshine and rainbows, or even that you can't be a little bitchy in there, because there is no way to change that unless you re-write human nature. I'm saying that if a knockdown-dragout starts, it needs to go out of chat IMMEDIATELY. We, the chatters need to take responsibility for this and self-police. If there is something you've got to say to someone or you will bust, say this first - "Meet me in the Dome". Or take it completely offsite to an IRC channel or something. All of the other things on Sarah's list will take days or weeks to work out, but this can start right now, tonight. Let's do it, whores.

[Inner Stickler]

I am a huge fan of chat. I think we all know that. I love having it as part of the board. But, and my but is very big, I think it needs to move completely offboard for a while. I think we should go back to something like mIRC until we figure out what exactly is happening with the site. People who know this sort of thing at GB have said, as long as chat is affiliated with the site, we're going to run into issues with blockers. Chat should leave until we can figure out a way to include it without tripping any alarms.

I also think we need to reimage who we are. Are we still domebo? As you are all aware domebo was DoMeBo which was a shortened form of Doper Message Board. I think that association is hampering us. It makes others who are aware of the history view us as a board of whiners and complainers. We need to kick that to the curb. Maybe this means adopting Dumbo as a mascot. (I personally am not a fan of this process. I strongly believe that the words we use reveal our feelings and since we are not dumbos but intelligent and capable people, I dislike using dumbo as a moniker.) I also understand that others probably don't want to lose the connection to what has gone before either and I understand that. I don't really have an alternative available but I really think we need a new name, a new domain and a new start.

Which ties in nicely with Sarah's first point. Who are we? What is our purpose? Are we here to snark or sympathize or both? Are we here to educate or satirize? What does the community want? I want a place that is a refuge from the outside world where I can unwind from stresses, share my life and crack a few jokes. The other question is what can we offer not only to prospective members but to each other that isn't at GB? What is going to make someone who posts at both places want to put a thread here rather than there. I don't know.

Issue 3 - I think we need a new domain, isp, etc. without chat! If we add chat, we solve nothing! I also feel that the new site needs to reflect our new philosophy so that needs to get hammered out first.

[Hatshepsut]

If chat is important to people, and obviously it is, then we need to accommodate it.

But let me offer a perspective from someone who will never chat, and who will leave domebo if it becomes impossible to be a full-fledged member of the community as a non-chatter (I already feel this is a problem for me, and I've found my interest in domebo waning as a result):

1) Chat relies on a variety of people being on line at exactly the same time. Thus, it calls for everyone to be in more or less the same time zone, or for the membership to be so large that we have members awake and chatting no matter what the time. Since I am not in the same time zone as most members, and we don't have a lot of people awake when I am (Allwalker and sublight are the only exceptions I can think of), that alone makes chat less appealing to me.

2) Chat relies on having blocks of free time, and I don't. I am typing this message during a brief lunch break, but I need to be able to stop at any time to go see what's just been delivered to my in-box. If you are drafting a post for a thread, you can stop for 5 hours if something comes up in real life, and finish your thoughts later. You can't finish chat on your own schedule - conversations are a "now or never" proposition.

3) Chat is exactly that - it's chitchat, and it's ephemeral. It isn't well-reasoned debate or material you can go back and review at your leisure to savor a well-written argument or a cleverly crafted joke. It's more akin to talking rather than writing. For me, the beauty of a message board is that it allows me to communicate on a range of issues with writers - smart people who organize their thoughts for clarity and persuasiveness, and take some time to polish their words for rhetorical effect.

I'm not saying chat is bad, and I am most certainly not implying that people who chat can't or will not write. Domebo's active chatters tend to be very good writers whose postings I enjoy. But more and more these days, it seems like what they are writing about is what they said in chat. This is fine, but it means domebo is moving in directions I'm not interested in following.

[Inner Stickler]

That is exactly why I think chat should be moved offboard for the nonce. The board is what we need if we want to retain a global audience. I like CairoCarol and would like her to stick around.

[Hatshepsut]

The board is what we need if we want to retain a global audience. I like CairoCarol and would like her to stick around.

Aww gee, I'll stick around then! :smile:

[CRSP]

What Exit? and I have been discussing this (and his blocking from work) via e-mail. It's become apparent that I don't have the time now that I did when I first started this site, and the situation is only going to get worse come September (final year of PhD funding). As much as I've invested time in the site, and don't want to let it go, it's become obvious that the site needs an owner who has to be around enough to fix problems as they happen etc. So, for the good of the site, it's probably going to be best that I step down, and find somebody else to take over who does have the time to invest in the board and managing the site, assuming that we have a volunteer (if not, I'll stay on)?

[Sarahfeena]

Thank you, CRSP, for your honesty about your situation. I guess the first order of business is to figure out if there is anyone who wants to take over from CRSP. Is there anyone out there in domebo land who has experience with message boards?

Also, I wanted to add that while I enjoy chat, for me personally, the first priority is the message board. There are plenty of valued and loved posters like CairoCarol who prefer not to chat, and first and foremost this is a message board. That being said, I think the thing to do is figure out what to do with the domain for the MB, and then worry about chat later. Any thoughts?

[Myrnalene]

Also, I wanted to add that while I enjoy chat, for me personally, the first priority is the message board. There are plenty of valued and loved posters like CairoCarol who prefer not to chat, and first and foremost this is a message board. That being said, I think the thing to do is figure out what to do with the domain for the MB, and then worry about chat later. Any thoughts?

Adding my thoughts really quickly - we cannot change our classification on Websense until we get a new domain at the very least, so yes - we need to make a plan for that and then figure out chat. Until then and until we are ready to move, we need to leave chat where it is - maybe move it off the main page (although that would not help with the blocking issue) but frankly, as long as we are all on our good behavior for the next little while, I don't think that will be necessary either.

Thank you for your honestly, CRSP. I don't know how to solve the issue of who takes over the board, but I will say that I think we need a couple more mods ASAP. I think pepperlandgirl should be reinstated immediately. I also think Sarah here would be a good mod as well, but I don't mean to volunteer her for a position that she may or may not be able to take on.

[Sarahfeena]

Myrna, I didn't mean to dump chat immediately because you chatters can't control yourselves! I meant that the most important thing is to move, and if we can only move the messageboard for now, then we should worry about chat later. I like the idea of the chat plugins that vB has, and I think that's something to investigate.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need a couple more mods right away, and second the pepperlandgirl nomination. As far as I am concerned, I think I could do it timewise, but I really don't know the first thing about it from a technical standpoint. So, I don't know whether to volunteer or not!

[OneCentStamp]

I will say that I think we need a couple more mods ASAP. I think pepperlandgirl should be reinstated immediately. I also think Sarah here would be a good mod as well, but I don't mean to volunteer her for a position that she may or may not be able to take on.

I would be happy with pepperlandgirl or Sarahfeena as a mod. I would also be happy to do the modding thing myself. I've never done it before, but I'm here quite a lot, as evidenced by my post count, and I think of myself as pretty even-tempered.

Whether being a mod would put me at the vanguard of a Domebo resurgence, or simply moving deck chairs on the Titanic, I love this board and have invested a lot of myself in it, and would rather put more into it at this point than disengage when the going is tough.

[Sarahfeena]

OneCentStamp, I'm so glad to see you post here, and volunteer to be a mod. I would be 100% behind that idea, in fact.

[What Exit?]

The tech side of modding is easy. I have a primer that answers most of it that we need to enhance a bit. But it works well.

I like all three volunteers for the job. Mod is not as much a position of authority here at Domebo but just a position to help out. As long as people stay laid back and we use 101 more for situations where we are unsure, I don't think we can do much harm. We have to get use to 101 as more like the Box on Giraffe. It will often be used as a short break and lets the person stay on the board and argue in a better location or plead their case.

Another adavantage of vB would be the better functioning of 101. They can set a person in a the box for about 7-10 choices of length and it is all automatic after that. We go through a lot of steps to get the users in and out.

I also would like to consider the idea of having mods given some ownership over forums. I worked a lot harder for G&S when it was mine honestly. I don't mean, mods stay out of other forums, but forum leaders seemed to help the forums.

I am more than willing to try and make whatever changes we decide to do. Before we set it in motion I would plan to get as much help from Giraffe, 7, Elmwood and others that are willing to give. We need to listen to their advice and setup the new board well to start with it. On GB they've done a great job on the tech stuff there. I know there are others that know what they are doing in vB. If they offer to help, I would want to listen.

[Feirefiz]

I brought this up in the very beginning but I still think it might be worth considering. You could form some kind of non-profit voluntary association to run the board. I don't know the most suitable legal setup in the UK (or the US) but I can give you a brief overview what this would mean in Germany. I am sure something reasonably close could be arranged in other countries.

• A number of people would join this association under their real-life identities. Their membership there doesn't have to correspond to anything on the board.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• Those people have equal votes in an assembly that makes the fundamental decisions for the association.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• They give themselves real, enforceable bylaws. You don't have to develop those from scratch. Templates are easy to obtain.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• The assembly elects (and possibly impeaches) a board and/or chairman who runs the day-to-day business.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• Typically members pay a small fee that is the major source of income for the association, but that's optional.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• Such an association has corporate personhood and limited liability. It can own assets and enter contracts in its own name.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• It has to pay taxes, but only on actual surplus which is usually not a great concern. The paperwork once a year remains.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]

Yes, it is possibly overkill and it would generate extra work. Nevertheless I think that the additional work is manageable compared to the amount of work that is required to run this board anyway. It also has a number of advantages:

• The board would not be tied to any single person.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• People with an interest in the board could be represented even without any day-to-day "office" and nothing prevents them from taking a more active role later.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• It solves the question what happens when key players decide to leave. (short answer: not that much)[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• If the board has to collect money one day things will be much easier.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• It solves the problem of making legitimate and binding decisions. Everything not specifically sanctioned by the bylaws (e.g. open on-board polls) could be handled via "executive privilege."[/*:m:2urnvl5v]

[The J Word]

As long as this place is what it is, it won't be anything different. (Confused yet?)

This place was created originally as an almost carbon copy of the SDMB.
Same forum names, everyone here was an ex-member.. the only thing "unique" about it was you had some vision of this non-SDMB paradise.

This place is based around the fact that you guys wanted somewhere better than the SDMB. How can you be anything besides "a group of former-sdmb'ers creating their own message board"?

It's going to have to stay a general board because that's all you're here for.
Sure you can have Mod elections, or custom titles, or hate-speech in your Pit, but in the end it's the same cookie with different icing.

As ive said before, this place started out WAY to big for what it was.
You're going to naturally get smaller and smaller until you're a comfortable yet active community with just a few boards.
-About Domebo
-General Questions
-Debates
-General Discussion (With The Pit as a sub-forum)
-Possibly one more speciality forum
(Or whatever fun names you want to give them).

There's no secret to success. Somethings work and some things don't.
This place didn't in its initial launch so don't think of yourself as competing with Giraffe anymore. They won. (I know, it wasn't a competition..).

"Domebo" can't be saved. Domebo will die.

Start over.

[prr]

Sarah, I couldn't agree with your thoughtful ideas more.

I've been much less active, and almost completely off chat, since I got into a series of unpleasant conversations with the chat-crew regulars a month or so ago that made me think, "Don't you have better uses for your time than to argue over stupid shit with people you don't know very well and who know you less well?" Rather than converting the chat crew to a vision of me as a decent person with differing opinions, I decided instead, "Oh, fuck it. Let them think what they want to think."

And since the board here is mostly chat, I simply haven't been posting very much. Too goddamned much of Domebo is concerned with modding, admiining, being sent to room 101, etc. which is pretty boring to me but seems very exciting to other folks. My problem with the SD wasn't that the mods were following terrible principles of banning, suspending, chastising etc posters, but that they were applying those principles in a very dick-like, and yet dick-less, fashion, set down by the chief Dick, EZ, and his braindead deputies of Dum, Tuba, Tom and Marley. But I think it makes some sense if we agree to empower our mods, and let them have a free hand, making an occasional mistake now and again. Jim is a good guy, as most of the mods you've suggested are, and the posters here who've given them a hard time recently are, IMO, just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. I'd have no problem in suspending their posting priviliges for an hour, then a day, then a week, then a month, then forever. Playing Whack-a-Mole with them as we've been doing seems kind of pointless to me.

[Sarahfeena]

I agree, prr. Entirely too much energy has gone to complaining about mods here.

So, here's my first question...who IS going to be in charge? I think we need to start the process of getting on vB, getting a new domain, and moving ASAP, but that's just one girl's opinion.

ETA: I like the concept of what Feirefiz suggested, but that seems a little overly complicated for us.

[Feirefiz]

As ive said before, this place started out WAY to big for what it was.
You're going to naturally get smaller and smaller until you're a comfortable yet active community with just a few boards.
-About Domebo
-General Questions
-Debates
-General Discussion (With The Pit as a sub-forum)
-Possibly one more speciality forum
(Or whatever fun names you want to give them).

I think you overrate the forum hierarchy. Does anyone really think of the forums as "places" that need a minimum traffic to survive and develop their own culture? To me, they are labels attached to threads in order to make them easier to find or to avoid and to provide some hint on the kind of discussion that you are looking for. Board/chat/front page - that's a real distinction where you might read one but not the others.

[Inner Stickler]

I am in favor of pepperlandgirl, Sarahfeena, and OneCentStamp as mods, with the caveat that we need to be wary of making too many mods for what we have. I think it would be better at the moment to have 4 or 5 dependable mods with the time and energy to split up forums between them rather than 10 who each have one small subforum to watch over. We also may want to lose some of the forums until traffic picks back up. Having a bunch of smaller forums that get a little traffic each looks deader than a few forums getting the same amount of traffic.

[NAF1138]

I like your ideas Sarah. I agree with most of what you say in your first post. I think that the staff have already taken steps to move in that general direction, but for the most part it was too little too late. Winston got frustrated and went off the rails. I am not able to participate in chat at work and am not online much of the time after work, so I, like CairoCarol, feel largely disconnected from the boards these days.

I don't have a problem with chat, but if the board has become a chat site with a message board attached to it, as I have seen suggested, then I am just not all that interested. There are many others who seem to feel the same way. Beyond that chat is causing real problems in terms of people being blocked at work. My favorite suggestion so far has been the one to return to an IRC channel temporarily until things get solved.

So, here's my first question...who IS going to be in charge? I think we need to start the process of getting on vB, getting a new domain, and moving ASAP, but that's just one girl's opinion.

I would be ok with Jim taking over and maybe stepping back from a direct moderation position. I love Jim, and I think he is a great admin for the boards, I also think that the person running the show should not be directly involved in modderation. In my mind Jim is an ideal candidate. He has been the face of the staff for a long time now.

As for the suggestion that we need more mods...I am not sure why. I think this is a case where more does not equal better and that adding more mods will only make things more difficult. If Jim does (or even wants to) take over CRSP's role, we will need a new mod to replace him. We probably need someone to replace Winston Smith who will most likely not be rejoining the mod staff, but I don't think we need to add to our ranks.

[Inner Stickler]

If there are any mods who would like to step down, please speak up! Don't feel like you have to remain in a position that you find stressful or frustrating. I like everyone here and I want everyone to enjoy being here and not regard it as work or a headache. I can only speak for myself, but I will not feel betrayed or let down if anyone wishes to abdicate as it were. And maybe no one does and that's great too, but I want to make sure that no one feels they have to do this for us.

Also. I feel very strongly that Sarahfeena should be one of the new mods.

[pepperlandgirl]

As for the suggestion that we need more mods...I am not sure why. I think this is a case where more does not equal better and that adding more mods will only make things more difficult. If Jim does (or even wants to) take over CRSP's role, we will need a new mod to replace him. We probably need someone to replace Winston Smith who will most likely not be rejoining the mod staff, but I don't think we need to add to our ranks.

I think that we need to replace Winston, and I think we need at least one or two people in addition to that. It's not because this place is so full of strife and discord that we need somebody around to take a firm hand--it's because sometimes shit does happen when nobody is around. I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds that highly frustrating. The solution isn't too make the mods be around more, but to add reinforcements. I cannot tell you the number of times that I've seen What Exit? in chat, wishing he had somebody else there to help him with a decision (or wonder of wonders, make a decision himself) and there literally isn't another member of the staff online, and may not be for hours (certainly not until after he's got off the computer for the night). I mean, look at what just happened with Winston. You didn't even know what was happening until after it was over. CatInaSuit wasn't online at all during the day. What Exit? had to deal with his the SBSO nonsense. Zuul didn't have proper access to the admin panel, and then went out for the day. So the problem was allowed to continue for much longer than it needed to. And that's a major issue for me. Quite frankly, while I don't need a mod staff hovering 24/7 and freaking out over every little thing, I would prefer knowing that the chances of somebody being online when the board actually has traffic are higher than they are right now.

I'm happy to assume the role of moderator again if the general consensus of the board is that I won't be too much of a fuck-up, but even if I wasn't nominated, I'd feel the same way about the number of staff.

As for chat--I'll be honest, the thing that keeps me coming to this board every single day is the chat. Sometimes I have a daily routine and I visit many message boards. Other time, I'm too busy for that, so I neglect them. But chat makes Domebo seem...dynamic. There's almost always a discussion happening. It's in real-time, it's fun, and even when I'm frustrated with work or feeling completely alone for whatever reason, I can go there and have a conversation. Which is a lot more fun and a lot less pathetic than posting a new OP with "Guys, I'm bored and lonely. Please somebody talk to me." I'm not saying that it needs to be on the front page, but I just want to add my opinion about its contribution to the board. There doesn't have to be an "us vs them" attitude, and while chat can sometimes be heated, it doesn't have to be. I've never had a fight with anybody in chat. I've had a few arguments with What Exit?, but those were debates, not declarations of war or anything.

[Inner Stickler]

I like chat too, but I really think that we're going to have to decide which is more important to us, chat or the presence of people like NAF and CairoCarol. She made a very good point that chat is nice for you and me because we live in relatively the same timezones. Others do not and they and some other posters are feeling shut out because of it. I do not want that to happen. I am sure that chat must be moved offboard, possibly permanently if we are going to save domebo.

[Fenris]

As ive said before, this place started out WAY to big for what it was.
You're going to naturally get smaller and smaller until you're a comfortable yet active community with just a few boards.
-About Domebo
-General Questions
-Debates
-General Discussion (With The Pit as a sub-forum)
-Possibly one more speciality forum
(Or whatever fun names you want to give them).

I think you overrate the forum hierarchy. Does anyone really think of the forums as "places" that need a minimum traffic to survive and develop their own culture? To me, they are labels attached to threads in order to make them easier to find or to avoid and to provide some hint on the kind of discussion that you are looking for. Board/chat/front page - that's a real distinction where you might read one but not the others.

There are two schools of thought on this.

One group says "Having a lot of forums SUXXORS because they'll be mostly empty and empty forums are depressing, plus it's too hard to navigate if there's too many forums"

The other says "The longer something's on the first page of any given forum the better, narrower forums make for better, more focused forums and "hard to navigate"? We're talking a web page, not trying to navigate Taiwan blindfolded while drunk and with no map."

I fall more into the latter category. Almost everyone else falls into the first. Neither side will EVER convince the other---ever. It's like arguing "Which is better: blue or green". I say, have a poll, whichever side gets the most votes (and it'll be the first one. I'll bet money) wins. The end and the other side has to say "Good show, old chap" and otherwise shut up or get boxed.

For me, I don't see a problem with say, an "Arts" forum with subforums like "Written", "Film", "Music", "Fine Arts" and then under, say, "Written", having "Science Fiction/Horror", "Non-Fiction", "Classics", etc. Or "Games" which has a "Sports" subforum which has a "baseball", a "basketball", a "hockey" or whatever forum. One advantage to this is that none of the other SDMB spin-off boards do this. It would be a way of A) distinguishing yourself and B) maybe giving a specialty area for posters who only want to talk about one issue.

Anyway, just a thought.

[NAF1138]

As for chat--I'll be honest, the thing that keeps me coming to this board every single day is the chat. Sometimes I have a daily routine and I visit many message boards. Other time, I'm too busy for that, so I neglect them. But chat makes Domebo seem...dynamic. There's almost always a discussion happening. It's in real-time, it's fun, and even when I'm frustrated with work or feeling completely alone for whatever reason, I can go there and have a conversation. Which is a lot more fun and a lot less pathetic than posting a new OP with "Guys, I'm bored and lonely. Please somebody talk to me." I'm not saying that it needs to be on the front page, but I just want to add my opinion about its contribution to the board. There doesn't have to be an "us vs them" attitude, and while chat can sometimes be heated, it doesn't have to be. I've never had a fight with anybody in chat. I've had a few arguments with What Exit?, but those were debates, not declarations of war or anything.

This is a fine point. And I am not going to say that I want to take that away from you, I have always taken a live and let live stance on chat, but I am going to say that right now I think that the cost outweighs the benefit. The web filter reclassification of Domebo as a social networking site is enough for me to say that I think it is a serious problem. IS is right, at the very least, for the short term, I think chat needs to be moved.

As for the mods issue, you make a good point about not having enough mods so that there is always someone online. In the mean time we do need someone to take over for Winston who has been officially removed from the staff. I'll bring up the issue of expanding to the rest of the staff and see what they think.

[Feirefiz]

ETA: I like the concept of what Feirefiz suggested, but that seems a little overly complicated for us.

Yes, it is complicated and it requires work.
However considering the work that is already invested into this place by all the mods and admins I don't think that it would be out of proportion. For better or for worse running the board just is a major effort.
The genuinely new work that isn't already done by anyone would be limited. It sounds overly complex and bureaucratic at first but it doesn't have to be in practice. After all let's not forget that the current situation isn't exactly a model of simplicity and efficiency either.

[Sarahfeena]

There is no question in my mind, NAF, that the board is more important than chat, and whatever we have to do with chat to solve the classification problem is probably going to have to be a given.

I'm hoping that the rest of the staff will see this thread, and give us their opinions in here!

[NAF1138]

I brought this up in the very beginning but I still think it might be worth considering. You could form some kind of non-profit voluntary association to run the board. I don't know the most suitable legal setup in the UK (or the US) but I can give you a brief overview what this would mean in Germany. I am sure something reasonably close could be arranged in other countries.

• A number of people would join this association under their real-life identities. Their membership there doesn't have to correspond to anything on the board.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• Those people have equal votes in an assembly that makes the fundamental decisions for the association.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• They give themselves real, enforceable bylaws. You don't have to develop those from scratch. Templates are easy to obtain.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• The assembly elects (and possibly impeaches) a board and/or chairman who runs the day-to-day business.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• Typically members pay a small fee that is the major source of income for the association, but that's optional.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• Such an association has corporate personhood and limited liability. It can own assets and enter contracts in its own name.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• It has to pay taxes, but only on actual surplus which is usually not a great concern. The paperwork once a year remains.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]

Yes, it is possibly overkill and it would generate extra work. Nevertheless I think that the additional work is manageable compared to the amount of work that is required to run this board anyway. It also has a number of advantages:

• The board would not be tied to any single person.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• People with an interest in the board could be represented even without any day-to-day "office" and nothing prevents them from taking a more active role later.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• It solves the question what happens when key players decide to leave. (short answer: not that much)[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• If the board has to collect money one day things will be much easier.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• It solves the problem of making legitimate and binding decisions. Everything not specifically sanctioned by the bylaws (e.g. open on-board polls) could be handled via "executive privilege."[/*:m:2r13kgbu]

You know, this might not be a bad way to go. I know that a couple of specialty message boards that I used to post on essentially did the same thing when the original message board owners had to give up the site for various reasons.

I don't see why we couldn't implement something like that here. It isn't as complicated as it sounds, it is possible, and it would have many of the benefits that Feirefiz outlined.

I'm hoping that the rest of the staff will see this thread, and give us their opinions in here!

Me too. I know that a link has been posted on the mod forum, so we should have other people weighing in soon.

[Sarahfeena]

Great! Thanks, NAF!

[Dangerously Unqualified]

When I rule the world the main page will be more of a general directory, like the directory plaque in the lobby of an office, not a prized destination for the one-click chic.

When I rule the world live chat will be freely available to all in a neat little social forum full of recipes, pictures of cats & kids and other lite, cafe style, fair.

When I rule the world live chat will also be freely and seperately available in a proper fact and opinion forum. A place for serious discussions about not only empirical items but debate over the hypothetical.

When I rule the world live chat will be once again freely and seperately available in a literature and fine arts type forum for live discourse of posted artistically poised threads.

When I rule the world live chat will be freely and yadda yadda yadda Games forum. Where such a chat function can be moderated and facilitated to bring some turn based games into a more real time environment, or where sports can be discussed during games where a thread would be cumbersome.

Whe I rule the world, I will have the time to devote to ruling it, which I currently do not. Otherwise I would offer to moderate or administrate some something or another.

The short line is, maybe chat isn't killing domebo, maybe a lack of direction isn't killing domebo, maybe... just maybe... it's a combination of both of these. Build it and they will come, lay out some plywood and a couple of hammers and someone will come but they may or may not build what fits and works, or at least what would work well with leadership and direction. Not that I've anything against our Crispy host, current or previous staff members but it is what it is, domebo is a barge adrift.

[The Original An Gadaí]

If you get rid of the chat I doubt I'll stick around. I find the chat worth coming back for time and again, the main boards less so. I have a presence on domebo, giraffe and sdmb and I'd say my time spent on SDMB has diminished, and of the otther two I spend way more time at domebo.

[Inner Stickler]

Fenris, I simply feel that with activity as it is, we don't need a lot of forums. If it gets to the point that threads of a particular variety or flavor are taking over a forum then yes giving them their own space is a good idea. But I really feel that with the number of forums we have now, we might as well rename the place Tumbleweed Junction.

An Gadai, no one wants to eliminate chat completely but it is causing problems. And I'm not talking about TEH DRAMAZ. Things like What Exit? being blocked. A side has to give in order to make this work and as a chatter, I am willing to put up with offshore chat for the time being.

[The Original An Gadaí]

I am too if it remains as popular and fun.

[Myrnalene]

On my lunch break and here for a bit because I can't stay away from you whores. This thread is jumping (which is great!).

Pepper's explanation for why we need more staff is perfect. All of the mods we have right now are good mods, and I don't want to lose any one of them (unless they feel that is what's best for them personally). Everyone just needs to give as much time as works for them. Adding even two or three active mods will I think take a lot of pressure off the staff and will ensure things get done.

Frankly, I kinda feel this discussion has settled on chat to the exclusion of other important issues. I feel some people are creating a false dilemna here. We don't have to choose between chat and posters like Carol and NAF. What we need to do is make sure there is enough activity in the forums to interest people like them. This is what I, personally, think we need to do - get a new domain for the boards. THEN create an offsite chat and then create a page here linking to that chat. PIMP THE HELL OUT OF IT and try to maintain as much of a community connection between the two. There are Dumbos that interact mostly in chat and we need them, too. We need everybody.

ETA: I also want to add that I like the idea of OneCentStamp as mod.

[NAF1138]

Frankly, I kinda feel this discussion has settled on chat to the exclusion of other important issues. I feel some people are creating a false dilemna here. We don't have to choose between chat and posters like Carol and NAF. What we need to do is make sure there is enough activity in the forums to interest people like them. This is what I, personally, think we need to do - get a new domain for the boards. THEN create an offsite chat and then create a page here linking to that chat. PIMP THE HELL OUT OF IT and try to maintain as much of a community connection between the two. There are Dumbos that interact mostly in chat and we need them, too. We need everybody.

Well said. And you make a good point about taking care of first things first. First we need to get Domebo to a new domain, and one that doesn't have chat so it won't get compomised again. Then we figure out the rest. The chatters are as important as the non chatters, and we don't want to lose anyone. More importantly, if we do things right we shouldn't have to.

[Sarahfeena]

Frankly, I kinda feel this discussion has settled on chat to the exclusion of other important issues. I feel some people are creating a false dilemna here. We don't have to choose between chat and posters like Carol and NAF. What we need to do is make sure there is enough activity in the forums to interest people like them. This is what I, personally, think we need to do - get a new domain for the boards. THEN create an offsite chat and then create a page here linking to that chat. PIMP THE HELL OUT OF IT and try to maintain as much of a community connection between the two. There are Dumbos that interact mostly in chat and we need them, too. We need everybody.

Well said. And you make a good point about taking care of first things first. First we need to get Domebo to a new domain, and one that doesn't have chat so it won't get compomised again. Then we figure out the rest. The chatters are as important as the non chatters, and we don't want to lose anyone. More importantly, if we do things right we shouldn't have to.

I agree 100% with this, as well.

[featherlou]

I think leadership here is the first and most important issue, and you are going to want to choose your leader and assistants very carefully. The leader here has to be someone who is going to stand up to the strong, vocal and negative personalities on this site (and also someone who actually wants to have someone telling him to fuck off as soon as they make a decision the strong personalities don't like). What Exit is a great guy and has worked his ass off for this site, and I don't say this as a criticism of him, but I don't think he has the stomach to keep his boot on the neck of the troublemakers here. The past lack of leadership here has cost Domebo a lot of good posters who just won't stick around for all the drama - they don't want to see it, they don't want to participate in it, and I believe they don't want to be on the rough end of it.

Sarahfeena and OneCentStamp are also great people, very nice and pleasant, and would be about the worst choices for moderators here you could find, unless you are actually searching for moderators who will be easily rolled over by the strong personalities. I don't think pepperlandgirl is objective enough to do what will need to be done here to keep things under control.

[Inner Stickler]

I disagree. I think Sarahfeena would be a very effective mod because she is so nice. I don't want to make her cross with me!

[elmwood]

Even though I'm on GB more, I really do want to see DoMeBo succeed. I guess it's because my own message board has been in the position of being the underdog before; not necessarily against other message boards (it's the largest English language message board for its topic area, and the site shows up as the second link in a Google search for the subject name), but in the quest for respect among those in the urban planning profession. For many planners, listservs are still the way to communicate with others in the field (forums are perceived as being unprofessional), and a news/blogging site gets more attention and recognition, although not more visits, by what the message board community calls "blueshirts" or serious "planner's planners". We've done a lot of soul-searching at the site, and we still do it from time to time.

My message board doesn't get a ton of posting activity by SDMB standards; about 200 to 400 posts a day. Still, there's a strong community, with get-togethers of members, members helping find other members jobs, and real-world friendships. There's even been two couples that have met and married through the site. The message board has been online since 1996, and it's up to about 460,000 posts; we'll hit big-boards.com status sometime in 2010. Sure, traffic could be higher, but I think we're a success, because of the site's longevity, sense of community, and contributions to the planning profession -- especially the planners in the trenches. We've had our crises, and we've worked through them for the most part.

Anyhow, what I'm trying to say is that post count alone is not the only way to measure the success of a site. DoMeBo can be a healthy, thriving yet smaller message board. There needs to be a critical mass to survive, though, the decline of posting activity and exodus of members has to stop and reverse. There needs to be churn; people don't want to wait days or weeks for someone to reply to their post. There also needs to be a sense of identity; that it's not just a "better SDMB". GB has a nice niche between the SDMB and SA.

My unsolicited advice, some of which is repeated from previous threads:

1) The site looks unfinished; default Joomla theme with no mods, and default phpbb theme with only a new header. Finish it.

2) Uhh ... never mind finishing it. Get vBulletin. It's easier to administer, easier to cuustomize, easier to mod, and it's what people are used to.

3) Board organization: check out all the message board admin sites, and you'll find best practice is to maintain fewer busy subforums rather than many slow subforums. Remember, churn is key to critical mass. People want to post in forums that are busy. Add subforums when demand warrants. Fenris may mean well, but new boards that start off with too many subforums usually die.

4) Offer features that other SDMB spinoff boards don't have. GB invested in the blog plugin. Maybe consider Photopost, an image gallery.

5) Chat: you've got to do some real soul-searching about it. Right now, it's the killer app of DoMeBo -- the only thing I think that is keeping what remains of the userbase "sticky" -- but it's also going to cause the site to become blocked at more and more workplaces. If chat becomes the only reason for DoMeBo's existence, and it remains front and center, you have to live with the consequences of it; e.g. the site being blocked. I think the only solution may be to get a new domain name and IP, and offer a link to chat ONLY for members with more than a certain number of posts. (It's possible to display different headers and menus to different user groups and post counts with vBulletin; it's not possible with phpBB.) As seen by a search engine or a cube dweller in the offices of a blocking software company's office building, the site cannot offer any indication of there being a real-time chat feature whatsoever, or even an association with an off-site chat.

As far as the IT departments of many workplaces are concerned, real time chat is the equivalent of hardcore porn. Even hinting at a chat feature to a visitor will cause problems. I can't emphasize this enough.

[Sarahfeena]

Thank you so much for your input, Elmwood! I think we've pretty much come to the conclusion that we need a new domain name and IP, as you suggest. I also think we are leaning towards switching to vB. I'm not sure if we will need help with all that, but if we do, would you be willing to help us?

[Sarahfeena]

Just checked and it looks like domeboards.com is available. That would keep us as domers, but get away a little bit from the original meaning of the name. What does everyone think?

ETA: For that matter, domechat.com is also available, if it needs its own domain name. Or would it be a problem to put chat right in the name?

[OneCentStamp]

Sarahfeena and OneCentStamp are also great people, very nice and pleasant, and would be about the worst choices for moderators here you could find, unless you are actually searching for moderators who will be easily rolled over by the strong personalities.

I really have no interest in lobbying or campaigning for this, but in fairness to Sarah and myself I will point out that being nice and pleasant, and the ability to make fair judgments and maintain order, are not mutually exclusive. Look no farther than our little-sibling-now-big-sibling, Giraffe Boards, to see evidence that light-hearted, gentle moderation can be just as effective as stomping on necks.

Now, if your concern is that, beyond simply being a nice guy, I'm a shrinking violet or a dishrag in conflict or tense situations, that's another matter entirely and if you feel that way, then you're right: I would make a lousy moderator. But I disagree. :smile:

[NAF1138]

Just checked and it looks like domeboards.com is available. That would keep us as domers, but get away a little bit from the original meaning of the name. What does everyone think?

ETA: For that matter, domechat.com is also available, if it needs its own domain name. Or would it be a problem to put chat right in the name?

I like Domeboards.com.

I like it a hell of a lot more than domebo, and I am not all that attached to the original meaning.

[OneCentStamp]

Just checked and it looks like domeboards.com is available. That would keep us as domers, but get away a little bit from the original meaning of the name. What does everyone think?

That sounds like a fine idea to me.

[Inner Stickler]

And keep the fill your dome and baldie and stuff?

[Sarahfeena]

And keep the fill your dome and baldie and stuff?

I don't think we're at that point yet, Sticks. I mean, sure, we could, or we could come up with better/different ideas. The key now is to get a new name and get on board with it.

[Inner Stickler]

Ok. I'm just curious. domeboards is cool with me though.

[NAF1138]

I am not a huge fan of the baldy. I know it was voted on and everything, but I feel like a lot of those posters who loved it aren't really here anymore. But I like the idea of keeping the dome name. It will provide a bit of continuity and at the same time make the board name a tiny bit more sensible.

[OneCentStamp]

I am not a huge fan of the baldy. I know it was voted on and everything, but I feel like a lot of those posters who loved it aren't really here anymore. But I like the idea of keeping the dome name. It will provide a bit of continuity and at the same time make the board name a tiny bit more sensible.

Besides, "Dumbo" is so witty. I'd hate to take our chances on the Snackers coming up with anything that good again.

[Sarahfeena]

I like baldy, but I'm totally open to whatever. I think we just have sort of identified ourselves now as "domers," and it would be easiest to just continue that.