Tapas for Two - Part 1. Now available for your delectation in the Apocrypha.
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Tapas for Two - Part 1. Now available for your delectation in the Apocrypha.
Enjoyable story, CIAS and WES! And pleasurable to see a romance cooking up, so to speak.
I'm confused. Do you expect Rangin to not survive this mission, so you're laying the background of another character? You can't do that to Kylah. She's just found love. Maybe it'll give her the confidence boost she needs so that she'll seem less irritating to Collins.
I have absolutely no idea at this point in time, what is happening/will happen to Rangin. Then again, I'm currently being held in a chair by Darth Palver, so its not like I have a lot of choice about what happens next anyway :D
Mr Johnson is just a guy who cooks and plays chess. He won't be going on any missions...I hope.
Who knows what the future may hold...?
For general amusement (especially for Ens. Graham), I've updated Rangin's character sheet with his attributes.
I'd forgotten his Psi and Strength scores were so low, even Kylah could take his lunch money without too much trouble.
Velir brings plenty of emotional strength to the table. I'm sure that's more than enough for Kylah. :) Although it is surprising that he has less of a strength stat than she does (and intelligence too). Surely that's a mistake--Kylah's a known weakling, and while she's certainly smart, she's not nearly as educated or thoughtful as Velir is. Maybe Velir was sick as a boy? At least he has a lot of endurance.
But now I'm confused. Why is EH posting stuff from Velir's POV? CIAS, you're still active today, right? Is this a scene you guys have written together? Usually there's a credit at the bottom when that's the case.
more likely, PC tried to do something, [rolled for it], and the GM told him how it turned out.
Since the scene is unfolding both in the physical and the mental planes, as GM I need to address both, so some of Rangin's thoughts are provided by me. I try to do it sparingly, but I have done it before. Dice rolls are incorporated into the unfolding of the story as needed.
Rangin & Graham's mutually low psi scores perhaps are / will be a factor in continuing to miscommunicate. (Wait, is it really miscommunication when Rangin simply asserts Graham is a drooling moron?)...
Even morons can have startlingly clear insights now and then!
Okay. Wow. I'm off to read a bit about GMs and how they work because clearly I had a totally wrong idea about what "role-playing" and "player character" meant. :iiam:Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
Don't worry, if I find anything enlightening I'll post it separately for anyone who's interested, since you've made it very clear what you think of my opinions!
Unfortunately, there has been a slight disconnect between what EH thought Rangin was thinking and what I, as the player, knew Rangin to be thinking. Hopefully, it has been sorted now.Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
My personal preference is that character thoughts are the sole purvey of the player responding to the GMs description, but can understand the need for a little extra description for all given the timezones we occupy.
EH it's CTRL+C then CTRL+V into Rangin's head:Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuitUnfortunately, there has been a slight disconnect between what EH thought Rangin was thinking and what I, as the player, knew Rangin to be thinking. Hopefully, it has been sorted now.Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
My personal preference is that character thoughts are the sole purvey of the player responding to the GMs description, but can understand the need for a little extra description for all given the timezones we occupy.
Drat, I was totally wrong about Graham. He's brave, smart and charming. Actually maybe he's kind of hot. I only hope I have time to pen the sincere and detailed apology he deserves before I turn into a slobbering monster and die.
I read and understand all the criticism, even if I don't agree with it all, and even if I don't instantly do all that is suggested. As you've asked, however, I will refrain from putting thoughts into the heads of the characters from now on. I am striving to bring this mission to an end - far later than I ever thought it would run - and am thus nudging the story along a bit, as I try to comply with one player's request that another's character be given a chance to shine at the conclusion of this adventure. Please, let's reach the finish line of this mission together, and then move on from there. The next mission will, I expect, be quite different, and not have the... complications that have made this one so fraught.
I'm still glad you're playing. Many thanks!
Right.
Aw surely it must be that CIAS, requested Graham should shine...I'm sure he'd be touched... :hug:Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
:bravo:Quote:
Originally posted by choie
Some cool astronomical news - a planet discovered with rings far larger than Saturn's: http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/28/tech/g...tem/index.html
I heart Astrophysics and Cosmology.
Every time I see the new icon, I feel like all your statements should end with a "!"Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
Why! Would! You! Say! That! ?!
Welcome! Back! Collins!
...It is sooo weird being on East Coast time...usually everybody (maybe sans CIAS) is online by the time I'm out...
(Thursday I may be off the grid, travel/work stuff, FYI...)
Understood, and thanks for letting us know.
Welcome back too, Collins/anyrose!
Speaking solely to general_urko and CIAS: are you guys getting the hint that the forces that rule our fictional little universe really really really want to change the time of death retroactively? I don't know about you guys, but personally I don't think that can happen--there's no backsies, here: we've all been paying too close attention for that. :) Let's look at what the text from a GM post--presumably trustworthy exposition (since it's from no one's POV, just the straightforward description from the GM)--said about the autopsy:
So despite what Villa just said, she didn't merely collect fluids and do little more than a scrub nurse--she ran a full line of tests on them, which would include being able to judge the lividity/oxygenation/congestion of the corpse's blood, all relating to judging the time of death. Plus, we can't discount that Villa actually saw the body, for pete's sake. urko and CIAS, don't you think it unlikely that an experienced CMO of a Starfleet starship who's seen heaven-only-knows how many dead bodies can't accurately judge the time of death herself once she's viewed and analyzed a corpse?Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
Now let's look at T'Var's dialogue when we contacted her while she was still on the ship:
Note that T'Var is up on the ship at the time, in the autopsy room (she was interacting with Halsey just prior to our contact with her), and that we saw her actions from the autopsy to the communication with the crew down on the planet, thanks to WES's posts. When did she have time to fake the information?Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
I just can't see how this alt.history is gonna fly given the evidence. And I hope it doesn't, because if for an entire year we've all been investigating a crime based on a false premise given to us directly by the Word of God (our GM) and a PC-turned-NPC (T'Var)...
Well, that's pretty much the antithesis of "fair play" when it comes to creating mysteries. (And this isn't even a regular mystery, it's an RPG--something interactive, where we the players are supposed to be the prime actors in the campaign.)
I dunno, guys. I think it's already a bit frustrating that our villain turned out to be a hugely powerful mentalist whose race canonically doesn't actually have mental powers according to Memory Alpha and who never showed any proof of such powers, nor were they foreshadowed in any way. (Not to mention the fact that one of our PCs happens to be an empath with a PSI of 12, and still couldn't detect any PSI 'aura' about the guy whatsoever in all the times she's met him.) In short, there was no way we could've fairly discovered his powers. The only way this case was solved was through the good fortune of Palver suddenly deciding to confess even though we had almost nothing against him.
So speaking to my fellow players only, while we have no say whatsoever in how this endgame goes, are you of the same opinion as me... that the most rational, sensible and fairest way for this game to end up is that it does not turn out that we've been wasting out time for the past year based on a lie due to some mental mage's voodoo that put lies into the words of one of our trustworthy teammates (T'Var)? I'd like to believe that we successfully uncovered something in this mystery, in particular the fact that Palver has been lying in a shabby attempt to ruin Hardin's alibi?
Anyway, that's my theory. I think the time of death is correct, and Palver simply lied in order to set up the framing of Hardin; he was going to force-feed this fake info to Kylah, Velir & Graham and we'd all have gone back down to the planet certain that Hardin was guilty after all. What do you think, CIAS and urko?
(not quoting because it's a big block)
I guess I would frame this differently: I've never GM'd a virtual RPG, but I've DM'd a lot of old school D&D, and as I see a game is a cooperative effort (player-player and players-gm-players) for everyone to have a good time and get something out of it.
If I felt like the GM was purposely jerking us around or wasting our time out of malice of laziness, I'd be pissed.
If I felt like the GM was contravening the desires of the group--e.g., everybody signed up for mysteries and problem solving and he's giving us hack-n-slash, or vice versa, I'd complain.
Conversely--and this is conditioned by the fact that I am terrible at mysteries (although you've had kind words on the matter, if I tried to craft a clever mystery as a GM someone like you choie would assuredly solve it in 10 minutes, and if a GM did a mystery that purely resolved on solving it and I was on my own as a player I'd wind up giving up, or perhaps shooting suspects at random in frustration...)--I would try and break things down into something actionable:
- Was this a well-intentioned but 'malformed' mystery?
- Was there a mistake?
- Is there substantively more that we should be investigating?
In whatever case, how do we make it better now or next time?
For my part, I don't feel qualified to judge the mystery, but the more important point is that character development is my thing . My personal bias is that any adventure that fosters character development is cool, whether it's something I'm less comfortable with (i.e., mystery) or more comfortable with (e.g., a more physical challenge, action-oriented one).
So I'd say, "what do we want?" - do we (players) want to ask for and/or help with: breadcrumbs into a bigger deeper mystery than where things stand? Or do we want some other Starfleet folks to come "bag up the garbage" and move on the the next one? For my part, Graham's (...character dev!...) is comfortable with either.
Hope this helps.
Good questions, general. Look, I know the GM should have fun too, but doesn't that usually come from setting up an interesting premise, setting and characters, and then watching how the players deal with them all? The satisfaction of watching players uncover a cleverly written plot, and seeing them appreciate having been smart enough to solve whatever problems you threw at them?
Clearly we didn't sign up for a mystery RPG; this mission just happens to be "the mystery episode" of the longrunning Star Trek: The Yorktown Adventures! series. :) Malice is out, as I know the GM wants to give us a good time, since that's usually the raison d'etre for a GM choosing to, uh, GM.
And both you and CIAS know better than anyone just how much of a good time I have been having with this mission, how thoroughly enthusiastic I was about it, as late as September--I was having a blast working on the mystery, tracking the evidence, and working with you guys to develop our characters via some interpersonal drama (also doing the same with EH re: the Jan stuff, and briefly with anyrose for Collins/Kylah and WES for T'Var too).
So for the vast majority of this particular mission things have been going really well, because like you, I'm primarily interested in character dynamics among the PCs (and to a much-lesser extent, any interesting NPCs), as well as each individual PC's development through his or her various arcs.
For me, the most rewarding aspects of the game as a whole, and this mission in particular, have been the interactions between Kylah and each of her PC crewmates Collins, Graham, Rangin and T'Var (before WES left). Heck, I would be semi-fine just dealing with you guys, with the nudging of some NPCs and external plot now and then. There's enough juicy stuff going on among us to fuel plenty of drama!
The fact that this mission involved a genre that's squarely in my wheelhouse as an author, a reader/audience member, and my work as a book editor... well, that was icing on the cake. It seemed like a complex mystery that could involve anything from a simple love triangle (unlikely) to the Orion Syndicate (which could've been really relevant to both Graham and Rangin) to the possibility of the skeevy Hwuen working with Hardin, to my latest theory: the Klingons trying to get involved in financial warfare as we were teased at the beginning of the mission. Piecing together the puzzle and coming up with these theories has been terrific fun.
Where things dwindled for me, rather rapidly, was when we lost both the ability to have character interactions (due to the pace of the game suddenly increasing and our attempts at exchanges getting cut off by Plot) and the NPCs suddenly took over and stopped being supernumeraries, instead turning into the prime movers-and-shakers of the game--with infodumps from Delaney, Hardin, Ebling and Palver, respectively.
Think of it: NPC Delaney's unlocking of the H/S file was really the only piece of evidence this game ever needed, honestly, since it gave us the Wilson/Hardin connection... and while a PC (Velir) was the one to find it, it was NPC Delaney who successfully opened it and then blabbed about it, allowing NPC Hardin to erase all doubt by shooting us and fleeing).
Then once he was chased down, NPC Hardin gave his big confession, saving us the need for any more evidence-finding, and NPC Ebling revealed herself to be an Internal Affairs agent, sparing the PCs the need to prove this to the higher-ups. All the PCs could do was arrest baddies who confessed before we even had a chance to accuse them.
Now we've got the new ending with Palver and his mind control. And y'know, that's an improvement in its way. Okay, it's wild and 'out there' but at least it's not as straightforward and simple as Hardin being the killer. Plus it explains away some of the inconsistencies that crept into the game.
To answer your question, "what do we want?" Speaking solely for myself, I would have looooved your first idea--the breadcrumbs into a bigger deeper mystery. I always thought this mission, this murder mystery, would be More Than It Seemed: while we could solve the murder, there'd still be a Sinister Plot that could keep us going through the next couple of missions. I've literally thought of five or six different solutions to this mystery, some of which had some cool links to the PCs in various ways.
But again that's not for us to decide. It's okay that this isn't a Bigger Picture murder plot--or at least, not one we're supposed to find out about except through a narrative cut scene as with the start and end of Mission #1. I'm not thrilled that the other Starfleet folks are going to "bag up the garbage," but the way things stand, that's probably what has to happen.
All I want is a believable, logical ending to the mystery. The superpowered Palver isn't exactly either believable or logical, but whatever... the reason I object to the continuing push of T'Var-as-mind-control-changing-the-autopsy-results is that it inadvertently means we've been blindly fooled by one of our own teammates, and even worse it obliterates one of the few actual bits of detection the PC characters did: eradicating Palver's alibi, discovering Hardin was not the actual killer because he did have an alibi, and eventually realizing that the only reason Hardin confessed was mind control. Then it was up to Kylah and Graham to distract Palver while Rangin played he-man. :)
At this point, given what we have, if this were a democracy (and I know it's not), I'd be voting for "bag it and tag it." Let Palver be proven a liar, give the PCs a frickin' win instead of forcing us to buy the idea that T'Var was mind-controlled (which means a former PC character has been turned into a dupe--and she's supposed to be a former member of the Vulcan secret service!).
And I hope we get to tie up some loose ends. Maybe the crew can hear the truth about Mrs. Hsu's involvement once Ebling reports to us. Collins/Graham can have their chat about how much Kylah and Rangin suck :D.
I do hope to see Fastolfe again. He was a vital part of this whole mystery--IMHO Fastolfe was the outstanding NPC of the game by far, and I'd hate to see us leave without a final send-off to a vivid, well-dimensioned creation.
Now, personally I'd kill for a certain suave Norwegian to make a final appearance to creep out both Kylah and Velir--that could really set the stage for later conflicts between them. That's highly doubtful, though. But certainly I hope for some Graham/Rangin, Graham/Kylah, Collins/Rangin and Collins/Kylah stuff too.
Basically I hope we get to have all the character moments we need to put a cap on this exhausting mission that's lasted, uh, four days. :D And then... curtain.
...And it'd be awesome to have some time pass, btw. What do you think of that idea? We could each write a recap of what happened during those few weeks in between missions, maybe. But since the entire game began it's only been, what, two months or so? Time for some promotions (or demotions, who knows!) and start Mission #4!
So, if this were a democracy, that'd be my vote.
I am not used to all the character development that went on - I felt like we were writing fan-fiction, and I felt not up to the caliber of the rest of you. As far as RPGing goes, I'm used to sitting around a table, rolling dice, and marking up a character sheet. I have to adjust my mindset. If we're writing fanfic, then so be it, but I'd love it if the pace of the adventure was a little faster. 18 months is a long time to tell one story. I realize I may be alone in this, but that's what's going on in my head
I'd imagine it is a big change, going from tabletop to what's basically a PBEM except via message board--where all the interactions are in writing and thus are more like telling a story. FWIW, I think you did a very good job at creating a pretty vivid character, and (as I've said before) I had a good time interacting with you during the Kylah/Collins scenes. But if you didn't enjoy it, I guess that knocks out the idea of any Kylah/Collins stuff in the future. :(
As far as timing goes, it's interesting that the first two mission threads took 14 months and 24 months to play out, respectively. This was right in the middle despite all the fanfic.
Don't get me wrong. I can write dialogue til the cows come home. It's exposition and description in which I feel weak. I'd love for Collins and Kylah to have a few more, uh, heated discussions.
Besides, Collins still hasn't seen the box on her bunk. I've got a scene in mind for that little tidbit.
Hey, dialogue is the prime stuff that makes for character interaction--and most development is revealed through dialogue (both internal and with others). That's the important part of role-playing, right?
I mean, yeah, character observation through tight POV descriptions (as opposed to omniscient narrative) is another way of developing one's character, which is why I use them as well. It shows how the character views the world--what s/he sees or doesn't, what s/he pays attention to, and what s/he leaves out. But it's just a matter of style. Not everyone wants or needs to use all the tools in a toolbox, and even those who do can pick and choose when to use 'em. It's all good! This isn't a competition, after all.
I was wondering if she was gonna notice that box! I was worried maybe the transporter engineer du jour may have nabbed it for him/herself. :)
Oh grief.
Ok, a few points from my POV on the mission in general and to be honest, I'd like to hear from EH (once we've left orbit of course) as to what your thoughts were and what the mystery was supposed to be and what changes and improvisation, if any, there were. I'd be genuinely interested to know what we missed, what we screwed up and what we screwed up for you and generally how you thought it would go.
And yeah, I'd love to know what the deal with the transporter buffer was?
As someone who does enjoy mysteries and solving stuff in games, though I am usually terrible at it, my preference is for a set of clues the players discover through their own work that we could follow to a logical conclusion and for us, the characters, to wrap it up before handing it across to someone else to process the paperwork. The only thing I want is consistency and the knowledge that if we find something out, it is set in stone unless there comes a very obvious reason as to why such info should not be trusted. As examples, I would give the time of death and transporter times as facts the PCs found which should be left alone, but anything an NPC says should always be taken with a hefty dose of salt. IMHO, of course.
If I had to guess, I'd say this was a mystery story gone wrong, where the facts and causes didn't quite match up and no amount of crowbarring was going to put them back into order. Frustrating at times, yes it was, but I'm still enjoying playing, especially with all the characterisation stuff going on. Then again, my usual GM style is to have as few dice rolls as possible in an evening. If EH does decide to do another mystery, then I'll still look forward to it and he can see everything that went right and wrong in this scenario to improve it.
The other thing I am enjoying is the mis-mash of styles we have, which is great fun to play with and I'm still looking forward to the next mission. The only thing I would ask is that everything that occurred between the players and NPCs isn't reset, as several members of security have a lot to answer for :P
For the mission, I'm looking forward to some last bits of character interplay and then onwards. As for the mystery, tag it and bag it.
Those are some great points, CIAS.
I think there are two RPG dynamics that seem apposite but really aren't... From what I've read of RPGs and in my brief experience in this one, it's clear that a GM is, in the end, the ruler of the universe s/he's created--and yet, the players are the ones who are creating their own roles within it, and the universe is created for them to play in. There's a good quote about this from Game Master Techniques for RPGs by Jamie Wild:
Sometimes I felt the PCs' best efforts were stymied because there was a pre-existing plan (e.g. the way each of the PCs tried to break free from Palver's mind-control, the way when we asked good questions NPCs just suddenly clammed up and never said a useful word again...). We showed a lot of initiative at times, and thought out-of-the-box, but most of the time, those ideas just didn't pan out.Quote:
...A good gamemaster has to look at himself as a combination of writer, director, and producer of his campaign. You (the GM) play the secondary actors and the extras, but the players and their characters are the stars of the show. If you keep that in mind when writing adventures and (especially) when running sessions, you’re going to do well.
Here’s the thing: especially if you think the player characters are lacking in some way, you may feel the urge to introduce NPC characters who upstage the PCs or “show them how to do it right”. Believe me, I’ve felt the same way many times over the years. In the end, your players, however flawed they might be, are the stars of the show.
Of course a mystery plot is unusual in that usually, when it's created, there is a fixed ending that the author/GM needs to get to. In a plain adventure such as the Sakathian thing, all we needed to get to was the final battle, and it was easy to keep us on a single track to get there, but how we actually fought those zombies was sorta up to us.
But if the players come up with genuinely interesting ways around obstacles or figure things out early, I'd love to see us getting in-game credit that isn't ephemeral. Usually whatever our success was, it turned into a red herring. Hardin's presence in the nightclub on the video footage being a chief example.
Another quote, from Sean Francis's 17 Gamemaster Tips:
Obstacles, usually in the form of red herrings and falsehoods, intrinsic to the nature of mysteries. We can't have a simple, straight line to the solution. And yet, there are still some things that--as CIAS mentioned--should probably considered sacrosanct. GM exposition posts in particular, IMHO; we can't suddenly have an unreliable narrator. (Unless we're told in advance that's the kind of universe we're playing in, of course.) Then there was the transition from the official, objective description of the autopsy results to T'Var's reference to the time of death...Quote:
Reward player cleverness, don’t punish it. Too often GMs feel they are playing against the PCs because they are setting up obstacles. This dynamic sometimes translates into the GM being overly loyal to the obstacles and trying to be more clever than the players. If the Players have discovered a loophole in an obstacle, don’t try to fix the obstacle in spite of the Players.
Now, if it had come solely from Halsey, and there was reason to doubt him (as it appeared there was--we never did get an explanation for his weird excitement/happiness that night), then it's totally fair to make the T.O.D. questionable: we would probably have picked up on this if there had been this type of foreshadowing.
T'Var is different. She was a PC only one post earlier. We also watched WES play her during the very brief time T'Var examined Wilson's corpse when we first found it--which was the only time Palver could've gotten to her. She behaved no differently, exhibited no signs of mind control. Thus we had no way to figure out that T'Var had been tampered with, and so we've been working off the original schedule for a whole year.
(Of course, I think the reason there was no hint that T'Var had been controlled was because that wasn't actually part of the original scheme--this whole effort to obfuscate the time of death seems like a glitch in the Matrix, an attempt to pull a new twist on us.)
Fortunately it's still not too late to remove this element from the game, since it makes us look terribly lame and it also kinda injures T'Var's character, which seems unfair to WES. I'm hoping EH will consider it.
In the end it comes down to my wanting to trust the GM, as we always have been able to in past missions and, I thought, throughout most of this one. Another quote from the first source above:
I think the game has done a great job at this for most of its run. It's only relatively recently where I've felt that the agency has been taken out of our control due, perhaps, to impatience and an understandably human desire to show off the mystery as it was original created.Quote:
Good gamemasters exhibit patience–and not just in waiting for the player characters to get through their scenes. They do it in an ultimately more important way: by not abusing their power as GM.
You’re going to get frustrated with the game and frustrated with your players at times. Things they do are going to hack you off or even infuriate you, especially if you put a lot of time and thought into a session and they are putting no thought into how they conduct their part of the session. But the best gamemasters maintain their patience in the face of these things, fight through their frustrations, and make the game work anyway. They don’t throw fits and kill the group (or some part of the group) for making them lose their patience.
Ultimately, being a good gamemaster is about establishing a level of trust with your players, so they feel they can build good characters and tell their stories without a bolt from the blue destroying all they’ve built. If you abuse your GM powers to their continual disadvantage, they are going to view you as some kind of angry god who punishes them for every infraction, and trust you about as much as they would an angry god. As the DM or GM, you’re putting them in mortal danger all the time, essentially trying to kill them repeatedly throughout the session. The trick is to be their antagonist without antagonizing them, to put them in danger without them thinking you “really mean it”.
I want to stress that I genuinely don't think there's anyone who has more thoroughly enjoyed this mission--the majority of it--than I have. I've mentioned this to EH in private but I might as well express it publically: this particular mission came at an extremely fractious point in my personal circumstances, and having it as a diversion, with all the fun interaction with each of you guys, as well as the delight in finding what seemed to be a complex mystery, was exactly what I needed to maintain some semblance of sanity. (Which y'all are probably doubting, but that's okay. ;))
So I hope our GM and the rest of you too understand that I've vastly enjoyed 5/6ths of this mission. It's only the last 3 months that disappointed me re: the way things are ending--but that doesn't obviate how much I loved the rest of the game, and I truly appreciate all the hard work EH put into the creation of it.
I am greatly looking forward to the next mission and I'm hoping it does have a connection to the bigger picture (we've gotta get back to Walsingham et al. at some point, right?) or maybe some ties to one or more of our PCs. I don't know about you guys, but my favorite Trek episodes were those where the mission somehow involved one of our beloved crew members (which was more prevalent in TNG-era shows, but we haven't adhered strictly to TOS-era story conventions so this one seems like a good kind of deviation).
So bring on the character interactions and another rollicking adventure. :hist:
Thank you all for your participation thus far, and for your input. I do not doubt the sincerity of the critics. You also make some good points. This mission has not unfolded as I expected, either in duration, several of the tangents, or in its outcome. I would rather not discuss what I had in mind from the start, or where things went awry (or didn't), as I think it would now serve no useful purpose. I, too, am more than ready to move on.
But Rangin is still going to turn into a monster and die, right? :woowoo:
g_u, do you remember Hot Lips' paramour Pvt (Lt) Jack Scully? He wanted her to be all pink and frilly, and he got demoted because he mouthed off to his Captain, who was several years younger than he? That's how I picture Graham.
OMG that's pretty funny, I had to look him up to refresh my memory--but now I can picture the episodes. Pretty good, although I think Scully was a straight-up sexist, and (well at least I hope) Graham comes across as more than that, although he certainly has some issues....Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
He's a 23rd Century version of Scully, so he wouldn't even consider a misogenistic approach to his female crew mates.
IOW, he's a good man, who bristles at authoritative figures, and would really prefer a quiet traditional sort of life, if not for the fact that he loves shooting things. LOL.
A little Apocrypha. (Faaaar toooo loooong plane ride...argh...)
(Post #36 if direct link doesn't work...behaving strangely for me at the moment.)
Good stuff! Thanks, general.
OK, fair enough! :)Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
Now 50 quatloos if Kylah & Rangin get into a rip-roaring shoot out down on the planet's surface while Graham tries to be Collins' Guinan back on the ship,
(Hmm it might be worth a time-travel episode for Graham to interact with Guinan. That might be an interesting conversation...)
If we're talking time travel, Collins could probably become BFFs with Worf.
Oh, good: "would you like to be alone with the violent lecher, or a xenobiologist for backup?" Good thing Graham's drunk & distracted...Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuit
And once again, Collins puts her foot in her mouth.Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
Happy birthday to WES! Hope you've had a good one.
Well the beauty of it is that if its anything family related, Graham will totally blame himself!Quote:
Originally posted by anyroseAnd once again, Collins puts her foot in her mouth.Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
+1Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
DittoQuote:
Originally posted by general_urko+1Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
every time the investigative team is mention, I hear Baba O'Reilly* over the credits for CSI:Starfleet
*has to be a Who song, right?
You might like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJSqkwyL1Zo
Actually, it's because of Caruso that I don't watch CSI:Miami. The original and CSI:NY, sure, but not Miami. Don't. Like. David. Caruso. (But they do that "button" thing on the others)
I am looking forward to CSI:Cyber
I may be thick (heaven forfend) but why does T'Var need to be told what happened? Hasn't Villa had her examined yet? Wouldn't the doc have filled her in by now?
There's a difference between being officially briefed, and chatting with shipmates.
Oh I didn't realize. Thanks, EH.
I checked Memory Alpha. The level of control Palver exerted could only be done with a device. Even the Kelvans, whose control was the most advanced, had that belt with the button. The only other species I can think of with that kind of power, in TOS time, were the ones who forced Kirk and Uhura to kiss. Please correct me if I am wrong
I think having a device makes the most sense as well, and posited that either in the game thread via Kylah or possibly in a conversation here, but it never flew. We are to assume Palver's powers are natural, end of.
Truth is, previous GM fiat says anything he wants canon, is canon. So let it be written, so shall it be done.
:bravo:
If we learn anything from Star Trek, it's that something may be impossible only until it is shown to be possible.
There's really no in-character scenario I can think of now that would make Graham insist Kylah open his communicator and insister Kylha file her report on the Yorktown right now but all the lovey dovey stuff with Rangin makes it sorely tempting to do it anyway...* :D
* Now whether that's because it would surely trigger a literarily impressive Kylah is pissed scene or just f**** with Rangin, I'm not sure... maybe mostly the latter :hist:
Okay. I have to ask, EH. If he wasn't going to accept Collins' invitation to talk, what was the significance of having Delaney enter the Mess just as she was leaving? I thought sure there was to be some interaction there.
Yeah, it was odd that Delaney enters the mess hall, then a second later says "Gotta go to engineering" and then leaves. So why'd he go to the mess hall in the first place? Curiouser and curiouser.
Run it by a proofreader? :DQuote:
Originally posted by general_urko
If poor Graham feels like an idiot now, just imagine how he'll react when he belatedly realizes that he wrote his Lady Fair a note with her name spelled incorrectly. :devil:
Good questions about Delaney. Inquire further of him, if your characters wish.
Heh. Y'know, I am on record--CIAS and general will vouch for me--as positing the notion that Delaney was the murderer. Admittedly, I had roughly seven plausible (using various definitions of "plausible") solutions to the crime. But Delaney as super-stealth nutcase murder was my favorite crackpot theory.
1. I can indeed attest choie has long suspected Delaney.
2. And oh for the love of god--EH can attest that I have made that same mistake a dozen times before (in Pride & Prejudice the Bennets are Bennets with one "t")
1. :) I know the nuttiness of the theory should make me embarrassed, but since the mystery's presumably solved I might as well out myself as having some whack-job theories along the way.
2. I know, I know, I've been messing up too. What's worse is that the Bennett in this game has made me misspell the last name of Lizzie et al., which is a far more grievous sin.
But it did seem delicious that you spelled it correctly elsewhere in the same post--it was only in Graham's actual note, where it would be the most awkward for him, that her name got mangled! Poor Booker. Or should it be Bookerr?
Yes, our Bennett has two t's (the usual spelling); Jane Austen's had one. The navigator is inspired by two Keira Knightley characters - Cecilia Tallis in Atonement, and Elizabeth Bennet in Pride & Prejudice.
Let me get this straight, Graham is about to walk up to Bennett, a person he has only briefly met on a couple of occasions and is about to present her with a bottle of expensive perfume...
So Crazy in Love or just Crazy Stalker?
Way to poke the hornets' nest, Kylah! :bravo: :popcorn:
Yeah, she's good at that. Wow, Jan is a raging asshat.
But I need to mention something because it's important, even though it was brought up in PM. EH chastised me for assuming Jan was still under the spore influence. Which normally would be fine--if Jan's no longer being "on the spores" was something unique. But EH gave the reason why he wasn't as "new introductions of the spores were suspended after Wilson's death." Implying that I should have remembered this, and I was politely reminded to limit my posts to Kylah's POV, etc. etc. Something I've done 99% of the time.
However, unless this is a new bombshell, Jan and all the other guests should still be under the influence (except Calvin, Fastolfe, Palver and Hardin, obviously). Jan was introduced a month ago (or whenever he arrived) and, even after Kylah's meeting w/him this a.m., he was never described as having lost the spores' effect. The crew was told that one introduction of the spores should last a guest's entire stay, and that almost no one ever needed "boosters" (which was why Calvin, Fastolfe, Palver and Hardin all losing the spore effects at once was so noteworthy, remember?).
I'm asking in public so that we can all be aware if we've been operating on the wrong assumption. Are all the guests no longer under the influence? Or maybe I'm the only one who was under this impression?
OTOH, if Jan's no longer being under the influence is a glitch in the Matrix (i.e. a GM mistake), can it be edited out please? Or do you want me to run with this? Because if left as-is, it's opening up a big new possible factor to the mystery. I don't want to get side-tracked unless it's intentional.
I was going on the theory that Palver's mind control ability had cleansed everyone, except the few he chose, from the spores. But, yeah, it's like Agatha Christie introducing new characters in the penultimate chapter of the book.
Who are Jan's companions?
WTF is bothering Delaney?
When we asked Halsey if anyone else had complained of losing the spores' effects, he said nope. If everyone in the resort but two or three people, I'm pretty sure that would've caused a pretty big freakin' uproar by now! :) The uniqueness of what happened to the "No-Spore Four" is why we focused on them almost exclusively.Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
Delaney's behavior might be a setup for next mission. Or, possibly, he's upset that he was left down on the planet without anyone noticing!Quote:
But, yeah, it's like Agatha Christie introducing new characters in the penultimate chapter of the book.
Who are Jan's companions?
WTF is bothering Delaney?
But yeah, I'm curious about the almost-twins Jan is now running around with, and why one of them looked at Kylah all weirdly. Is this some implication that they're... y'know... Jan's sex partners? Has Jan turned into Fastolfe-Lite? I mean hey, if he's bi, that's fine, but it's pretty new information to spring on us at the last minute.
I can't buy the idea that Jan lost the spores' influence during the scene where mean ol' Kylah hurt his widdle feelings by letting him know he'd had sex without her ever consenting. Because if that had caused him to lose the spore effect, EH surely would have mentioned it in the scene at the time, no? Kylah would've noticed it.
To the contrary, by the end of the scene Jan was back to his being all courtly and romantic (uh, depending on your definition of that), and his last words to her were, effectively: "Ah, dear Kylah, I hold out hope that you'll contact me and that we may start anew, because I could fall in love with you... and I'm sure once you get over this silly little hissy fit, you'll remember how well I sexed you up..."
For the record, this is Kylah/Jan's last exchange:
So by the end of the scene he was back to normal Suave Gentleman Scumbag Jan, hoping to win the love of the woman he basically raped. He was still holding out hope for a reconciliation. Kylah bent over backward (way too far, IMHO) to grant him the benefit of the doubt for how he behaved, and even praised him for being so noble as to not get defensive or upset. So why is he now sporeless and rewriting history?Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
Losing spore effects requires a reason, especially a highly emotional one. He didn't have a transporter signal in his room as Rangin checked all over. Umm, that makes him a suspect, unless he can produce a good reason for such a shock.
I really hope Jan has no spores.
It would give Rangin the perfect reason to contact Graham right as he is talking to Bennett in the arboretum and is dragged down to OCIII to investigate another suspect. If Rangin makes him really mad, I wonder if Rangin could get him to pull Jan out of the restaurant for a quiet chat in full view of everyone :devil:
Oh sure mock the temperamental goon when its convenient, but trot him out when he's useful...Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuit
The more I read Jan's lines, the more I see a manipulative, entitled brat who dresses up his selfish behavior with gentility. Look how he revises history in order to make Kylah appear as if she unfairly cut him off and refused to talk to him further during their brunch--when, as you see, they left things with Kylah praising him to the skies simply for not calling him a whore, and Jan still hopeful that he could still "win her love" (gag). And similar revisionism is going on when he describes Velir as "accosting him" in the nightclub. WTF, Jan came over to them! Sure, Velir did ask some amusingly inappropriate question about whether Kylah should see a doctor, but it wasn't even accusatory, much less aggressive. And five minutes later, when Velir did go up to Jan, all he did was abjectly beg Jan's pardon for being offensive. That's "accosting" in Jan's POV?
Schmuck.
I'm just waiting to see if EH will confirm whether the no-spores thing is intentional or a simple error. If it's a mistake, no biggie. If it's not, Kylah needs to react accordingly.
As far as whether it has any implications for the murder... well, I doubt it, although he was mighty relieved to find out the investigation was over. :D
Some time ago, (at least I thought I did) I said it's Murder on the Orient Express, they all did it.
eta - okay choie said it in July, but I've been thinking it.
Jan is indeed no longer under the spores' influence.
choie, please do not bring things into discussion here in the setup thread that I raise in PMs. If I wished them to be under discussion generally, I would do so myself. That is why I chose to contact you with a PM. Thanks.
Sorry. You gave me no information in the PM that wasn't in the game thread, except the "bad girl choie, stick to Kylah's POV" part, so I didn't think it was a secret. I certainly don't care that people know I allegedly made an error. I'm pretty good at acknowledging my own errors. As someone wise once said, mistakes were made. I'm ready to move on.
You may be ready to move on, choie, but obviously Kylah isn't. ;)
Hey if she's given something to run with, she's running with it--head on into a brick wall, usually, but that's the kinda gal she is.
One of our few similarities aside from eye color.
Jesus wept.
Grief - looks like we finally got the reveal of the true villain of this mission like the innards of a sea-slug vomited out in fear.
He doesn't want to see Kylah or Rangin again, because it reminds me him he's a rapist! He doesn't like the person he was under the spores, so he's going to don his hairshirt and roll out "woe is me" to anyone who will listen. Sorry, really is the hardest word. I mean talk about blaming anything else instead of accepting responsibility for his actions. Admit a mistake, him, never!!!
He really is no gentleman (or bon-vivant for that matter).
Reminds me of someone IRL I had to stop being friends with.
If Graham wasn't oblivious to all of this on the ship it would create quite the dilemma between whether his guilt over not proceeding on to the hotel against Collins' order precipitates more angst and self-destructive behavior or more of a desire to kill Jan... *whew*Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuit
Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
Ooooh!
In the interview, Nichols retells the story of meeting “her greatest fan” for the first time, soon after the first season of Star Trek aired. The year was likely 1967. At the time, she was contemplating leaving the show, but then, at a NAACP fundraiser in Beverly Hills, a man with a big smile approached her and said, “Ms. Nichols, I am your greatest fan.”
That man was Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'
Link: http://fusion.net/story/50746/surpri...was-a-trekkie/
Apologies but muse is on the blink.
No problem. Hope she drops by soon!
(insert dramatic chord here) The romance is over before it can even begin (cut to commercial)
You'd be amazed how useful this can be: http://www.dramabutton.com/
:bravo:
Many long plane rides...so some new Apocrypha
Thanks, general! Graham's had quite a career.
Oh, for ... ! Jeremi and Booker are going to send Kylah and Velir to Sex Box on WE TV.
"We gotta get those two kids together, Booker!"
Holy shit, that's a real thing? Well, it's official. Civilization is heading straight to its nadir, express route, no stops. All that's left is "Death Box."Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
WE TV stole it from British TV where things like that are commonplace. Americanizations of British properties rarely make it past one or two seasons, so don't worry. It'll be gone soon.
LOL. I read that as "sex bot" and thought it was some kind of Futurama gag.
Yeah, that one is all our fault, Channel four at its finest. I wouldn't worry, you see nothing apart from a pair of slightly tired people being quizzed over how they feel having just had sex.
It's just a bit awkward and dull, really.
Oh my, I guess that's the pain of being a sensitive, new age type of guy... :D:devil:Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuit
Good thing Graham will never have to worry about that. :devil: :dance:Quote:
Originally posted by general_urkoOh my, I guess that's the pain of being a sensitive, new age type of guy... :D:devil:Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuit
Welcome back WES!
Verily, it's great to have you back!!! :hug:
LOL. Kylah was hoping T'Var would still be an NPC.Quote:
Originally posted by choie
:D
Heh. Oh believe me, I am very very very glad T'Var is no longer an NPC! In any event the person who inevitably asked all the annoying questions Kylah didn't want asked was Delaney!
Yes, welcome back, WES, indeed!
WES has been away? Who have I been losing to at chess for all this time?
Seriously, good to have you back WES :dumbo:
Thanks, everyone! I've missed being a part of the crew and look forward to the next mission. :)
I'm sure we've all heard about Leonard Nimoy's passing. For some reason 83 feels far too young to lose him. He always seemed so warm despite Spock's so-called emotionless presence. I'll also remember him from In Search Of..., which I actually saw more often in my youth than I did Star Trek. Plus his cameo in The Simpsons is short but hilarious.
In an interesting coincidence, the first obituary I read today happens to pick out his performance as Spock when affected the "aphrodesiacal spores" from This Side of Paradise.
A sad day.
Just heard about it now :(
Sad day indeed.
Leonard Nimoy has died, and may he rest in peace, knowing the pleasure and fascination he brought to so many millions over the years (and never being afraid to tweak his public image, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dULOjT9GYdQ). I saw him at a Washington D.C. convention in 1987, and still fondly remember the experience.
But Spock will always live on somewhere in Star Trek lore.
I can't believe he is gone. I got to watch him while he was directing a few scenes for Star Trek IV but missed out on meeting him. Spock was one of my inspirations. One of my heroes. My favorite character when I was a child.
Nimoy inspired me as an adult. I think part of my commitment to being a lifetime environmentalist was due to him. I loved his humor and thought he was easily the best actor of the Star Trek crew. Sadly I cannot say I loved his singing but otherwise I thought he was awesome and somehow Spock singing about Bilbo Baggins was awesome despite being the campiest thing ever.
Hi, What Exit?. Are you coming back, too? Will Delaney be a PC again? Please? We miss you.
(more PCs means more drama, and possibly a faster moving plot)
Sorry, I often go days without checking the message boards lately. I don't have the time to rejoin or honestly much interest in it.
This is worth a read, too: http://www.buzzfeed.com/leonoraepste...cry#.pknxLnge1
Buzz Aldrin pays tribute to Leonard Nimoy: http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/27/opinio...ock/index.html
Very sad.
A statement by the President of the United States: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...-leonard-nimoy
...So let's raise a glass to the Thin Blue Line, ladies and gentlemen! :DQuote:
Originally posted by general_urko
If I'm reading right, none of the screw-ups went in Graham's AMR? That's gonna be a pretty big omission when compared to Kylah's and, I believe, Rangin's AMRs. I wonder if Vargas (or Singh, assuming she's paying any attention to this mission) will have a conversation among the three of them. I also notice Graham doesn't actually mention the breakdown in command, aka disobeying orders, because hey, we're all professionals and What Happens in Security Stays in Security. Even though it's problematic for the big picture of improving how things run in Security, his behavior is really good characterization here--I totally buy this from Graham, a lifelong soldier/cop amalgam, so kudos, general!
Yipe! This is quite a curveball. Just what did Fastolfe tell this guy? Assuming it was Fastolfe. (I can also believe it of Adjetey. Or Jan if he's feeling vindictive enough.) Kylah's reputation is going to get even worse, if the Jan thing comes out, and now the lies about Fastolfe. And then there's Ferguson's hissy fit way back at the beginning where he accused Kylah of being a sex-starved stalker. Will that rear its ugly head too? Doesn't paint a good picture for Kylah. (Boy if anyone wanted her to change her AMR, one can make a good case that Kylah's own behavior both on this ship and during the mission is ripe for disciplinary action too.)Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
In other news... Damn, Collins goes all out with experimental food, while Cooper eats the blandest meal possible. If that's not a metaphor for two people who actually don't have much in common, I don't know what is!
Yeah. Collins mentioned sushi, and Ben said that sounded good to him. Very interesting.
Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
dun...Dun...DUNNNNNNN!!!!Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
Is Mahmoud, Cooper?
Have we ever seen them in the same room at the same time or have we been infiltrated by Romulan spies who all read from the same phrasebook.
:o
Sorry EH :P
Thanks, yeah this was an "easy" decision because it's totally what Graham would do - also, given that he once was a senior officer (at least when he's in form...) he's inclined to take responsibility for figuring out what's wrong and how to fix it rather than just reporting up the chain for somebody else to deal with.Quote:
Originally posted by choie...So let's raise a glass to the Thin Blue Line, ladies and gentlemen! :DQuote:
Originally posted by general_urko
If I'm reading right, none of the screw-ups went in Graham's AMR? That's gonna be a pretty big omission when compared to Kylah's and, I believe, Rangin's AMRs. I wonder if Vargas (or Singh, assuming she's paying any attention to this mission) will have a conversation among the three of them. I also notice Graham doesn't actually mention the breakdown in command, aka disobeying orders, because hey, we're all professionals and What Happens in Security Stays in Security. Even though it's problematic for the big picture of improving how things run in Security, his behavior is really good characterization here--I totally buy this from Graham, a lifelong soldier/cop amalgam, so kudos, general!
Interestingly he didn't figure out what's wrong! Probably should've spoken to Kylah first and asked her to quantify the issues she had with security during her time as mission commander pro tem at the resort. I don't remember how much of the whole Kjaerstad-overriding-her-orders Graham even knows about. IIRC, all he knows is that Kylah was left alone to deal with Mrs. Hsu due to some miscommunication. He probably assumes it was her fault? It would be an understandable assumption given her usual lone-wolf status and also inexperience in such matters.Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
Anyway, it's telling that Graham seems to have taken Kjaerstad's grim look as a distaste for taking orders from Graham, whereas I'm pretty sure it was related to Kylah ripping into Security after all the gaffes. But maybe we'll explore that in the upcoming inevitable scene. :)
Speaking of which: I'm not sure, should I assume Graham has gotten in touch with Kylah, or do I need to wait for the Communications person to patch him through? I don't want to presume anything.
I wish I was as urbane and witty as Rangin :fail:Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
Do you have a perceptible English accent? That buys you a lot of perceived urbanity in the States. Even if you're just saying "blah blah blah" if you have a posh one.:DQuote:
Originally posted by CatInASuitI wish I was as urbane and witty as Rangin :fail:Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
British accents are sexy
Seconded.
Yes indeed. Posh or not, northern or southern. And of course Rangin has an accent; his very vocabulary and phrasing reveal that underneath the Coridan exterior lies a British soul. I'm not sure I'd call him urbane, but he is witty!
BTW, anyrose, if Collins is about to take Cooper back for some (gentle) monkey sex, please have her contact Kylah beforehand, put a virtual sock on the virtual doorknob, or stick a Post-it note that says "if this cabin's rockin', don't come knockin'." If the experience w/Jan hasn't turned Kylah off romance already, walking in on her roommate in flagrante delicto might scar her for life. And Velir will never get lucky. :devil:
Collins may want to go back to Ben's cabin, or Ben may not want to get busy at all.
BTW - Limoncello Marscapone cake is TEH AWESOME YUM. I just had it the other day. It's not too sweet and not too tart and oh, so creamy.
Ben's roommate might object, assuming he has one. Where do people go to have sex in such cases? Any broom closets on board?
Interestingly timely article about miscarriages I just saw in my RSS feed.
thanks (I think) that will help my roleplaying
You're welcome! Very coincidental timing. Collins seems to been on target with some of those responses (including the emotional reactions she showed yesterday). Looks like she could have an up-and-down journey. It's only been... what, three or four days, I think?
Let me work this out. Say the mission began on a Monday. The murder would've occurred late that night/early Tuesday morning; the miscarriage was later Tuesday morning, after which Graham became mission leader. Wednesday was pure investigation*, I think, and then Thursday we (well, Velir) caught Palver, came back, had our various emotional reunions and so on. Which would make today Friday.
* Except wait, that I think of it, I don't remember our going back to the lab station more than twice. If so, today is only Thursday.
But either way, only two or three days have passed since the murder, yipe! :D
The drug Collins was on could have masked an otherwise bi-polar personality
Possible, and that would be interesting albeit tough as hell to play! But I'm not sure you want something that major. We've been told that Kylah's merely having a single panic attack when being held captive, paralyzed and muted could have put her career at risk. So alas, I don't think a bipolar Collins would last very long. Especially since she's already gotten a pass for using drugs while on duty.
I like the TNG-era treatment of psychological issues much better. Barclay was transporter-phobic and addicted to holosuites and he was considered able to serve!
choie's OC3 timeline looks right to me - thanks.
Collins is not, as far as I'm concerned, bipolar, although she has... issues, as we all know. anyrose, if you want to discuss further this via PMs, let me know.
No, no. It was just a thought. Collins is Collins. No major changes to her persona as we know it.
You're welcome! I should hope it's right... I have this frikkin' thread so memorized and notated I could write a dossier on where everyone was and everything that happened, not to mention when. Sad but true. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
And dayum, that's twice Cooper's negged Collins's food. I dunno, maybe a relationship can survive an unplanned pregnancy, differing choices on what to do with said unplanned pregnancy, and the tragic miscarriage thereafter. But his dissing her palate? That's a dealbreaker, ladies!
:bravo:
The accent is noticeably English. I can do posh as well. No, I will not be reading the phone book. Rangin also gets several re-writes to make him sound that spontaneous.
Kind of weird really, because when I'm reading through the thread, I don't really have any assigned voices or accents for the characters, other than possibly mid-atlantic drawl.
When I "read" Kylah, it's with a sort of... a very rounded, low voice. The female Inquisitor in the Dragon Age: Inquisition game is about right. Here's a line (some spoilers, and if you keep watching there's some NSFW nudity), and here's another that's more Kylah-esque. The voice actor is Alex Regan--her voice in general is great, though her natural British accent is thicker.
How much clearer can I make it that Collins is from New England?Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuit
Oh that's funny, I could listen to my female Qunari DAI Inquisitor talk all day. Actually for all practical purposes on some Saturdays I suppose I have...Quote:
Originally posted by choie
and here I "heard" her as more of Bernadette Rostankowski Walowitz :dance:Quote:
Originally posted by choie
COLLINS DID WHAT? I called you off? I don't remember that. I'll be back after I try to find it.
Yeah hon, she totally did. :) Graham contacted her and said he didn't know Kylah's whereabouts*, Collins said Kylah was a big girl; Graham pretended not to hear her, but Collins didn't fall for that ploy and ordered him to get his ass back to the resort lobby, where the gang was all meeting up before returning to the resort station.
And thank God she did! Oodles of juicy story would've been gone. (Although I'm sure EH could have contrived an obstacle for Graham, but still... I'm glad it was organic to Collins's personality instead. I think it was very much in her nature not to accept Graham's overprotective macho crap. Even though, of course, he was sorta right.)
Edited to add the links: See posts #1161 through #1170.
* More accurately, that she wasn't in the Nightclub where she was supposed to be, but instead was in a hotel room.
Edited again to add: Y'know, each time I read that Jan/Kylah sex scene, the worse Jan looks. I swear that when we were writing it, it was more ambiguous, but now it's very clear that Kylah was frozen with fear (as often happens in sexual assaults) and Jan literally acts "as if the passing seconds of her silence are an assent" by whipping off the rest of her clothes and penetrating her. Even without Kylah having been under the influence of the spores, it was obvious Kylah was neither ready nor willing. Jan is a sleaze stone-cold rapist.
I found it. Yeah, Collins did. But then a very short while later sent two of the crew to check on Kylah. It wasn't that she wanted to leave Kylah twisting in the wind; she didn't think it was a good idea to have two crew members each off on their own.
Hell no, I never thought she wanted to leave Kylah in the lurch. She's not Kjaerstad. :D I thought she cut Graham off at the pass because he was overreacting and Kylah was unlikely to be in any danger (an entirely reasonable assumption at that point, prior to the murder and given their surroundings), so Graham raging off seemed like a bad idea.Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
Instead, Collins took the more appropriate gesture of actually trying to contact Kylah. IIRC it was only after Kylah didn't respond that Collins sent T'Var and Graham to hunt her down.
Of course by then, 'twas too late, and Kylah got out of the room herself as soon as she could. That was when she ran into T'Var and Graham.
Even now, Kylah wouldn't have wanted Collins to allow Graham to continue on his way there. Yes, she wishes things hadn't gone the way they did (hence her shock and conflicted feelings on learning that Graham was nearly there to stop things*). But she's ashamed that she needed to be saved; she still blames herself for not being able to get out of that situation herself, and for getting into it by making herself vulnerable to the spores/Jan's lusty feelings.
Thank goodness she's at least starting to realize Jan was "also" at fault. Hopefully someday she'll understand that aside from being somewhat irresponsible in sorta "tasting" the spores, she didn't do anything wrong.
* Given the timing, he wouldn't have gotten there soon enough. Jan worked fast.
IMO everyone behaved with sterling fidelity to their characters (...with knock-on effects that generate further hilarity trauma...):
Of course Graham's instinct was to go charging in guns blazing at the slightest hint of something off; at the same time there's no way he would disrespect Collins by disobeying, nor would he give her any grief about it afterward.
I think Collins was already a bit annoyed by Graham's earlier reckless / macho behavior...with reason.
And of course Kylah's mixed feelings are inscrutable to Graham.
Despite her caution, Collins barrels into a surprised Rangin, causing him to fly over a table in spectacular fashion and suffer a mild concussion along with great embarrassment.Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
C'mon EH, pretty please? :devil:
Hmm. Would this be a good time for the Captain to drop by for a snack...?
That bit about sprinting but being careful was a nice touch, btw, I meant to say, anyroseQuote:
Originally posted by general_urkoDespite her caution, Collins barrels into a surprised Rangin, causing him to fly over a table in spectacular fashion and suffer a mild concussion along with great embarrassment.Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
C'mon EH, pretty please? :devil:
A specific verse of this Springsteen song is why I sent Booker to the arboretum (whole song came to mind, but very specifically the image / lyrics in this bit).
Hmm, I wonder what the AMR's from the extended away team said about the initial party?
Ooh that's a good question. Do they even get AMRs?
I would imagine some of the ones who got into scrapes with Kylah and, to a lesser extent, Rangin, would be likely to confer and express their dissatisfaction with the inexperienced and incompetent leadership forced on them, explaining that instructions were poorly delivered and inconsistent and so they had to correct for certain mistakes in judgment (particularly Kylah's).
Kjaerstad, as a senior officer, seems the most likely to have some pertinent things to say, with Russell backing him up.
Such a dichotomy between what Kylah/Rangin say and what Kjaerstad/Russell/Harper/Rawlings* et al. say could be extremely juicy to explore later on. For right now, if that's what Vargas is dealing with, it puts Graham in an especially difficult and unenviable position.
* Although to be fair, while Rawlings made the biggest blunder, he seemed to be the most sincerely contrite. He certainly had none of the attitude problems evidenced by Russell and Harper, who both made some disparaging sounds after Kylah and Velir took them to task for ignoring her orders about consolidating the team's activities by placing Hsu in the resort's security area.
Dang Vargas is holding Graham's feet to the fire. Good. :)
Big laugh out of this:
I just wanted to say: awww, what a stand-up guy you are, Graham! I'm sure Kylah and, who was it, St. Croix? would both be thrilled and honored to know you specifically--and rather condescendingly--patted them on their heads for being good little crew members. (Seriously, why is he pointing out the kudos he gave just the women, or maybe just Kylah? He sounds as if he's saying, "geeze, Vargas, I gave her some minor credit, what more does that uppity Elasian want? It's not like she was the one who helped solve the case by figuring out Hardin wasn't the murderer and Palver was, or anything...")Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
Also, note this suave bit of tapdancing:
Bolding mine. Of course Kylah's the one who first gave the order to Garcia to provide back-up; Graham later also confirmed this request over the open channel conversation w/Kylah and Kjaerstad, but by that point, Kjaerstad had already disobeyed Kylah's initial order and pulled Garcia to watch videos.Quote:
"There were two things that warranted action as clearly unacceptable," he continues, nodding slightly. "One, some Security personnel may have expressed a, uh, lack of enthusiasm for being placed under Ensign Kylah's direction. Two, she did not receive the back-up I'd ordered--or a replacement--just prior to confronting Mrs. Hsu.
I can't help noticing that Graham only thinks it worth mentioning that his order wasn't followed. Whereas the more likely root of the problem is that Kjaerstad wasn't listening to Kylah in particular (either because she's a non-security officer, a woman, an Elasian, inexperienced, or unlikeable... or any combination of the above; hell, maybe he's friends w/Ferguson).
I'll say this for him: Graham is amazingly well-written as true to his character. Old school, protective, and unconsciously (and possibly inadvertently) paternalistic, even for the 23rd century.
Heh heh. In Graham's 'defense' re: paternalism, 'atta boy' is a common phrase in policing for a 'kudo' in a report, and both of the 'atta boys' in this case went to women (yep, Kylah and St. Croix) - I figured by 23rd Century folks would interchange the gender term freely... :)Quote:
Originally posted by choieDang Vargas is holding Graham's feet to the fire. Good. :)
Big laugh out of this:
I just wanted to say: awww, what a stand-up guy you are, Graham! I'm sure Kylah and, who was it, St. Croix? would both be thrilled and honored to know you specifically--and rather condescendingly--patted them on their heads for being good little crew members. ...Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
I'll say this for him: Graham is amazingly well-written as true to his character. Old school, protective, and unconsciously (and possibly inadvertently) paternalistic, even for the 23rd century.
When I worked for my dad, decades ago, he had xeroxed off a bunch of attaboys and handed them out as warranted
:) The part that was telling is that Graham felt it necessary to say, somewhat out of the blue, that he did include a couple of atta-girls. No one asked him who did well; Vargas wanted to hear about the problems. Graham sounded defensive by saying "well wait, c'mon Commander, before we get into Kylah's kvetching, can I please just stress that I gave the uppity wench credit for a very minor aspect of the mission? Can't she be happy with that instead of going bitchcakes on the real soldiers here?"
At least that's how I translated it. :devil:
Meanwhile with all the latest angst about Kylah not having friends, I just remembered how much I like Thalen and I realize Kylah totally needs a gay BFF. (And he's gotta be gay; I've been in the music biz basically all my life and I know a Friend of Dorothy when I see one!) I know he's her supervisor but still, he seems like one of the coolest dudes on the ship.
Ok so that sounds like Graham shouldn't hold his breath waiting to hear "thanks for the atta girl" from Kylah... :DQuote:
Originally posted by choie
and probably not from St Croix. Or Dobson for that matter.
Very entertaining, uh, analysis of Kirk in WaPo.
Ha! My wife might almost have written that. She'd take Picard over Kirk any day, for mostly the same reasons.Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
Uh oh! Never say 'no comment' to a journalist!Quote:
Originally posted by choie
I see danger Will Robinson!!
:psychic:
Heh, I know. She really has no good options here. If she doesn't contact him, Walcott will surely do the old "Ensign Kylah was unavailable for comment" or, worse, "Ensign Kylah turned down this reporter's request for an interview." Really she is hoping Walcott will give her some indication of what's in store for her via his questions. Her mistake was asking Thalen if she could follow up w/Walcott, instead of just shutting up and contacting the guy herself.
Of course Thalen would probably have known about her contacting Walcott after the fact (considering he's obviously in the know about Communications traffic). But Kylah could then have had plausible deniability/innocence: "I was merely fulfilling my agreement to get back to him and tell him I could not speak to him."
Meanwhile the lesson Graham is learning is amusingly backwards, but again, true to form. The only reason he was mission leader was due to his experience as a security officer, so of course he was the correct person to take the lead in going after Hardin--the stuff he delegated to Kylah was the administrative/clean-up stuff (so we thought at the time) of searching Hardin's things, finishing the interview w/Mrs. Hsu about her affair w/Wilson, and so on. In any event even with Vargas breathing down his neck, Graham is unwilling to acknowledge that Russell, Harper and especially Kjaerstad should have obeyed Kylah's orders regardless of whether Graham was right in putting her in that position.
Garcia's the lesser problem anyway, as I see it. He knew less about what was going on. If during the chase he was contacted by Kjaerstad, an actual security officer, and given a different objective, Garcia very likely assumed Kjaerstad knew what he was doing. Depending on where Kjaerstad is headed as a character (who knows, given his unpleasantly stone-faced reaction to Graham's mild reminder to treat Kylah with some respect, not to mention his having pulled Garcia off Kylah's backup* in the first place), Kjaerstad could have told Garcia anything to explain the request and can excuse it now as a misunderstanding.
I mean, it doesn't have to be nefarious, he could just be a major screw-up. But I'm hedging my bets that he isn't. Russell and to a lesser degree Harper were also pretty stupid down there. If Kjaerstad is another idiot, then the Security department really does have a serious and endemic incompetency issue. We know Vargas doesn't suffer fools gladly, so why is his department like a clown car of idiots?
OTOH, if it was an attempt to frag a disliked colleague--or at least scare her--yipe! That would be a creepy but unfortunately believable twist. And short of his admitting it to Graham--hardly likely--there's really no way he'd be caught, because unlike Kylah, he does have plausible deniability. "Just bad judgment, miscommunication, yadda yadda."
* Why does "pull(ing) Garcia off Kylah's backup" sound like a euphemism?
Given what happened with the AMR's, I'm still waiting for Graham to go and find Kylah and Rangin and start demanding answers as to why they said all those nasty things about his beloved security. Of course, he's going to blame Garcia instead of Kjaerstad for the screwup isn't he. :p
It's obvious why Security are the Keystone Cops - it makes Vargas look good when he tidies up after them.
I'll be honest, I'm enjoying watching all the repercussions unfold like this, instead of just heading for the next mission.
Like CIAS I am also enjoying the post mission (even though it hasn't been the easiest going for Graham... :\). I do appreciate the kudos for Graham's consistency, he's nothing if not that - for better or worse...
I'm loathe to comment too much OOG since some of these things may come up in game...
exploring the personal lives of the crew is fine with me.
Thirding (oops, ninja'ed by anyrose) I mean fourthing how enjoyable the aftermath stuff is. It's not something usually seen in the TOS-era (which is why I'm a DS9 gal--it excelled at showing the consequences of its characters' actions), and I love that we're getting to role-play aspects of life as a Starfleet officer other than being inside a mission. It's all about the follow-through, baby!
Meanwhile, Graham is killing me with this stuff:
Bolding mine. Damn it, Booker, NO YOU DIDN'T. Kylah did. You confirmed it but Kylah was the one who ordered the backup. Get it together, son! :DQuote:
...at the time Ens. Kylah confronted Mrs. Hsu in the transporter room, she had no backup. I'd assigned Lt. Garcia to that task, but when push came to shove, neither he nor anybody else was on-scene."
In fact, now that I reread that whole section from #3306 onward, while Kjaerstad should be excoriated for disobeying Kylah, he has an easy defense for disobeying Graham. Because right after Graham said "yeah, Garcia should meet up with Kylah," Kjaerstad told him that actually Garcia was now with him looking over videos. And Graham said nothing, which could have been interpreted as "okay, fine, Garcia should stay where he is."
He shouldn't have been surprised later when Kylah revealed that Garcia wasn't with her--although given the chaos of dealing with everyone remotely over communicator, it's understandable that he wasn't keeping track. But the truth is simply that Kjaerstad told him where Garcia was, and he gave tacit approval of this by saying nothing.
Of course, it's no excuse for Kjaerstad's having countermanded Kylah's orders earlier, but if Graham persists with focusing only on his own order, Kjaerstad is in the clear and the guilt reverts to Graham for not following up on what Kjaerstad told him.
Hope Kjaerstad or Garcia calls him on this. :D
Well son of a **** I was sure Graham had sent Garcia on his way initially, but I just re-read the section again and you're right. :smackQuote:
Originally posted by choie
Well I suppose that makes this all the more realistic about the 'fog of war' and sorting out what really happened when...
choie (or at least Kylah) must have an eidetic memory
:D Well, Kylah (and I) have been referring to Kjaerstad's having commandeered Garcia despite her orders ever since that uncomfortable Graham/Kylah meeting earlier. From #3937, in their discussion, Kylah says:Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
Looks like Graham really wasn't paying attention to her!Quote:
Originally posted by choie
BUT it is realistic, as you say. A lot of crap was going down all at once. Graham was in the middle of the Hardin hunt when the Hsu thing happened. (Hmm, that sounds like a sentence Professor Higgins would've given Eliza Doolittle.) He was basically a general in charge of troops about to go to the front, when suddenly a second battle broke out miles away.
Only for this mission, alas! Once a mystery became the core of the mission, I made it a point to take copious notes and keep track of the clues. Back in... September, I think? I went through the thread, pulled out all the relevant posts where some sort of evidence was gathered, and combined them into a single document. (This was just prior to Hardin stunning Graham/Kylah.) I then sent the doc to the general and CIAS so we could confer.Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
We've also done a lot of sleuthing, speculating and discussing, which has helped me keep track of things too. So, yeah, I'm super-clear on the timeline and everyone's movements. Almost creepily so. The 23rd century version of the FBI should keep its eye on me.
Meanwhile, is Collins really going to just spend the night with Cooper? What about Cooper's roommate? Or doesn't he have one? Maybe the guy has his own girlfriend (or boyfriend) and regularly spends the evenings elsewhere.
Having bunkmates sure makes sexytimes difficult on this ship! At least for non-exhibitionists, anyway.
Collins' intent is to just spoon/cuddle. We'll see what happens.
Would you rather she brought Ben home with her? Kylah would be forced to bunk with Velir for the night
Heh, no, cuddle away! Although if that's all they intend, Kylah probably would just have to bear it, teeth clenched and silent in her own bunk.
I was just opining on the difficulty of people's romantic lives on the ship. I don't remember seeing roommate situations on the ships before--probably because the Trek shows only focused on higher-level officers, who rated single bunks.
Yeoman Rand had a single AFAWK
Palver studied with the Ullians!
The women are falling apart! :eek:
Damn, that's harsh on Collins.
Oh Kylah, what have you done? Broken your promises, disobeyed orders and prejudiced a possible future trial. :fail:
Yeah, I think she needs Dr. Villa less than Dr. Noel at this point. (That's the shrink's name, right?)Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuit
Hey nobody's perfect. :DQuote:
Oh Kylah, what have you done? Broken your promises, disobeyed orders and prejudiced a possible future trial. :fail:
Although... how would this prejudice a future trial? It's not as if a trial would decide between Hardin and Palver--Palver's the one who was arrested for murder (wasn't he?).
You mentioned the footage from the nightclub, gave details about how you suspected Palver and stated outright that Palver did it. So far, it has just been mentioned he has been taken into custody.Quote:
Originally posted by choie
Oh is that all? :) Well, IIRC arrests are a matter of public record--at least they are in the 21st century here in the U.S.--so that would come out pretty soon anyway. But the real point is, what's the fun if Kylah handled everything (or indeed anything) well?
Hopefully Gaines will back her up on the video footage on the record, leaving Kylah's name out of that part at least. Of course whether Walcott actually does keep Kylah as anonymous source is anyone's guess. He didn't actually agree to that, but if he's a smart reporter he won't reveal a source whom he might want to utilize later.
Kylah better brush up on those archived Law & Order, CSI, and NCIS episodes. The investigating team always holds back crucial bits of info from the press until the trial. That way the alleged perpetrators don't know how close to being convicted they actually are.
Heh. Well, unless Palver's an idiot, he knows about the video footage, since Kylah and Rangin flat-out asked him about it in the library, after he invented that amusingly ridiculous "temporary spore amnesia" tale to explain the discrepancy between what Kylah saw on the video of his actions vs. that entire fake account of his activities he gave to Collins and Kylah spoke to him that first morning.
If Walcott comes out with the story re: the video and follows her wishes to remain anonymous, Kylah has plausible deniability (such a useful term!) if she's blamed for blabbing, considering there was another witness to that discovery of the video--that goofy resort security guy who was drooling over her--who knows about the evidence as well. Considering the other lies going around, this one could get lost in the shuffle.
(Seriously, who on earth told Walcott that she and Palver were having an affair--and why? She was never even alone with him. Unless someone heard that she slept with a rich businessman and that was interpreted as Palver, rather than Jan. Or it could just be a stone-cold malicious lie put out by... someone. I have no idea who!)
Meanwhile, I hope Graham is never put in charge of an Internal Affairs investigation, because he is unbelievably determined not to find fault with anyone on the crew. "Faults on all sides, slipped through the cracks, won't happen again." It's noble that he intends to apologize (assuming he does) but I don't think Kylah will find that satisfying.
Hey, I think Graham's conclusion is pretty clear - all three (Graham, Kjaerstad, Garcia) are clearly at fault for not living up to the high standard of simple diligence and care every officer should hold themselves to. Now that the ship has sailed (well, I think the ship has sailed, maybe tipping my hand here will enable EH to target some rocks falling from the sky...), Graham's POV is that from a regulation / rules point of view, they could all point fingers at each other (Garcia: I wasn't trained on Security protocols, Kjaerstad: I told you I was using Garcia, Graham: Give me a break, I had a lot going on) but the bottom line is nobody should be cavalier and lax about this stuff.Quote:
Originally posted by choie
Hence his last comment & thought. (If Kjaerstad was under Graham's command back in the day and didn't apologize, he'd find himself either assigned to remedial training or transferred shortly.)
But fair enough, Graham's POV is that the situation was FUBAR enough that trying to nail things down into specific regs/admonishment would be counter-productive. Which does suggest, given what Kylah told him earlier, that she juuuuussst miiiiight not find it fully satisfying... :o
50 quatloos if Kylah orders "a hotpot with a side of bitchcakes"Quote:
Originally posted by choie
Yeah, Graham's mistake was mainly starting off with the wrong question. He might have gotten further with: "Let's go through the chain of events that led to Kylah ending up without backup." That would likely have taken them all back to the start of Kylah's order, rather than only what happened after Graham repeated it--by which time Garcia had already been reassigned. Instead, Graham unintentionally gave Kjaerstad the 'out' he needed.
So confronted with the question Graham did ask, Kjaerstad was able to take advantage the situation and thus got away with not revealing that the problem was caused by Kjaerstad's own unilateral decision to override Kylah's order to Garcia. Something that Graham either forgot or didn't pay attention to during Kylah's description of events.
(It'd be interesting to know whether Garcia objected at the time to being reassigned... if he ever said to Kjaerstad, "well, wait, Kylah is expecting me as backup." And if he did, how did Kjaerstad respond? I wonder why he's keeping silent about that now.)
It was negligent of Graham to ignore/skip over Kjaerstad's announcement at the time that Garcia was with him. But that's more of a passive mistake than Kjaerstad's flagrant act of disobedience/wanton disregard for a colleague's safety. They should all be written up to one degree or another, IMHO. But Kjaerstad's behavior was egregious and sometimes blaming the person who actually actively screwed up is the right thing to do.
Oh well, it gives Kylah another potential confrontation scene w/Kjaerstad. That should be fun. :devil:
May I ask what you meant. My comment here, or the preggers flaunting her belly at Collins?Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuit
The latter with Collins going into shock like that. Going to take a while to get over it.Quote:
Originally posted by anyroseMay I ask what you meant. My comment here, or the preggers flaunting her belly at Collins?Quote:
Originally posted by CatInASuit
:dubious: buncha busy-body tattle-tales on this ship :roll:
Yeah, tell me about it! :D
An officer collapses in a corridor, yeah, word gets around....
Just saw Predestination, a nifty time travel/paradox thriller based on the Heinlein 1959 short story "--All You Zombies--," but with a major subplot added.
Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayAt1BZmJH0
Wiki article on the original short story - beware, spoilers!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_You_Zombies
Definitely worth seeing.
Hmm, I do like time travel, but am very much not a Heinlein fan. Might have to look this one up!
Apologies for 2 posts in a row in main thread, but...well, it's obvious why I couldn't resist...
So, you're hoping that when Graham returns to Kylah's room, he'll interrupt some extra curricular activities?
Raining on Rangin's parade (so to speak) would be gratifying... :devil:Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
No spoilers in the trailer. Start there.Quote:
Originally posted by choie
So, Graham is now Jeff Goldblum on the last night of The Big Chill, waiting for Glenn Close to show up so he has someone to talk to.
GRAHAM: "Ensign Kylah, I must tell you I'm picking up vibrations here on this ship. I'm almost certain there's sex going on around here..."Quote:
Originally posted by anyrose
:bravo:
Where's Deanna Troi when you need her...?