What did YOU know and when the fuck did YOU know it?

[Liberal]

GodDAMN, I hate the fucking news media sometimes. Especially dumb fucks like Chris Matthews and Joe Scarborough.

Apparently, a news report surfaced that Secretary Geithner knew about the AIG bonuses on Wednesday and told the president about them on Thursday. But he didn't express outrage until Friday. Or some such fucking mindless irrelevant gossip hag bullshit like that.

"Why O why did the White House not let us know of these bonuses even though they were public knowledge for months!?"

Well, FUCK A WHORE BACKWARDS!

You're the goddamn NEWS media. Why the hell didn't YOU report the goddamn NEWS!? If there was something we should have known about AIG, WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T YOU TELL US?

You fucking hypocrites. Goddamn stupid pieces of shit. No wonder you're less popular than the Republicans in Congress. No wonder you're going bankrupt. No wonder nobody believes you or gives a shit what you say. You're idiots. You're fucking losers. Fuck you.

[Rube E. Tewesday]

Seriously, I have to wonder, are people who read and listen to the news regularly any better informed about anything important than people who don't?

(And, hey, Lib, if I may say so respectfully, nice to have you back)

[hatesfreedom]

I read the newspaper at the pub sometimes. It gives me the ability to drink a few before I have to have serious conversations with anybody new, which I am often not prepared for coming just off work. Otherwise though I rarely have any idea whats going on with the world, and I'm fine with that. You can't ever find World News being reported in America with any kind of depth and the domestic news is some sad sack shit almost always. During the hayday of the Iraq occupation I had to go to BBC to get any sort of news about it. The US just refused to cover any major actions.

I don't get as bent out of shape about it as you though, at some point you just gotta square your shoulders and mumble, "Fuck it".

[Liberal]

(And, hey, Lib, if I may say so respectfully, nice to have you back)

That's a very kind thing for you to say. While I was a bit miffed at some of the hypocrisy and childishness on display yesterday, I was also tied up in several hours of outpatient service that left me tired and groggy. Still, you're a good egg for trying to make me feel better.

Regarding the news media, this has become a repeating pattern with them. It's a projection of responsibility. Many years ago, they used to investigate these kinds of things and report on them. Now, they just sit lazily awaiting a stooge to bring them some old news that they hope no one else has reported yet.

But their cowardice and dishonesty is harming the nation. This is a time when pissing fights over piddly shit are not appropriate. I'm just fed up with them and had to vent.

[Liberal]

I don't get as bent out of shape about it as you though, at some point you just gotta square your shoulders and mumble, "Fuck it".

I think you're right. My "fuck it" is just a bit more colorful than yours.

[cheesesteak]

Regarding the news media, this has become a repeating pattern with them. It's a projection of responsibility. Many years ago, they used to investigate these kinds of things and report on them. Now, they just sit lazily awaiting a stooge to bring them some old news that they hope no one else has reported yet.

You forget that when they DO actually have new information to present, the goal is to get that information spread as widely as possible as quickly as possible, accuracy be damned.

[Liberal]

Yeah, that too. FUCK!

[hatesfreedom]

You forget that when they DO actually have new information to present, the goal is to get that information spread as widely as possible as quickly as possible, accuracy be damned.

haha.. well said good sir

[Chimera]

It used to be that the press had somewhat of an adversarial relationship with the other branches of authority (the reason they were called "the fourth estate"), because it was their job to root out corruption and information and report it to the public. Unfortunately, over time, like every other power structure, they've been co-opted into the establishment.

Bush co-opted many of the news organization with a simple denial of access, very early in his administration. Report harshly and/or something they didn't want you to report, and you'd suddenly find that your reporter couldn't get on Airforce One, direct access to officials or called upon at news conferences.

The Financial mess is more of the same. In exchange for access and patronage (advertising), the media surrendered it's watchdog role and became cheerleaders.

They've forgotten their power, selling out for money.

[silenus]

I don't get as bent out of shape about it as you though, at some point you just gotta square your shoulders and mumble, "Fuck it".

I would agree, but by doing so, we relegate ourselves to being bottoms rather than tops. We are on the cusp of a new system and paradigm of news reporting, and things are still very much in flux. Now we have a glut of information and little analysis. Something will arise in the next few years to fill the gap.

[ivan astikov]

I don't get as bent out of shape about it as you though, at some point you just gotta square your shoulders and mumble, "Fuck it".

I would agree, but by doing so, we relegate ourselves to being bottoms rather than tops. We are on the cusp of a new system and paradigm of news reporting, and things are still very much in flux. Now we have a glut of information and little analysis. Something will arise in the next few years to fill the gap.

Yup, some bot will be devised that can scan all online news services for your specific interests, and your own personal newspaper will be delivered to your email box... if it isn't being done already.

[silenus]

The problem with that idea is that what we should and need to know probably sin't the same as what we want to know. That filtering function used to be served by the Press. Now.......not so much.

[Chefguy]

It goes hand-in-hand with the recent attempts to revise history vis-a-vis the New Deal. According to Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter and the other shrieking harpies over there on faux, the New Deal government spending was a complete failure and the only reason the depression ended was because of WWII, and therefore America is DOOMED. As Jon Stewart pointed out "You mean WWII when there was massive government spending?!"

[ivan astikov]

The problem with that idea is that what we should and need to know probably sin't the same as what we want to know. That filtering function used to be served by the Press. Now.......not so much.

I see your point. I think one thing we probably do need to do, is have a society that encourages 'whistleblowing' and a press bold enough to listen and respond to them.

[sistercoyote]

I haven't read a newspaper or watched a news show in...good heavens. I was going to say months, but the truth of the matter is that it's been years! Anyway - I get 90% of my news from the political blogs I read (and yes, bias, but so are newspapers and news shows, and at least I know the biases on my blogs). And I probably know about things that have happened long before my (local) family, who get all their news from the networks.

Just, you know, putting my two cents in.

[silenus]

I hear that. If it wasn't for Daily Kos, certain message boards and Slate/Salon, I'd be totally lost on a lot of issues.

[OtakuLoki]

I'm another one who has long since abandoned the so-called mainstream media. Not because of any Limbaugh-like claims that they are biased, or traitors. (Though I've been convinced that there is bias in news reporting since the Ed King libel case against the Boston Globe was originally won. Overturned on appeal, but considering the level of proof required to even get as far as winning the original suit...) Rather because I find that where I have any knowledge of the issue before I get the story in the paper, the errors or misunderstandings just jump out at one, in a hugely frustrating way, and where I don't have prior knowledge, the gloss that substitutes for most reporting is so shallow and superficial, I often felt as though I ended up knowing less of the issue than I had before I started. Seemingly obvious questions never asked, or never followed up upon.

And that's with US news.

When reporting foreign news it was even worse. Background, often so vital to inform current events, is done at a gallop, when it is done at all.

Lately, my local paper has been running a series of Op Ed pieces from various newspaper people who are lamenting the disaster that's going to happen when the ubiquity of a local paper goes the way of the milkman. Pointing to the loss of in depth foreign reporting, or the admitted need for watchdogging public figures and issues. My reaction has been often, when more front page space is being given to the likes of Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton, and Miley Cyrus, I think they've already dropped the ball. Badly.

I'm especially frustrated because of my on-going frustrations with NY state government. The budget is being worked out in secret, again, this year, and massive cuts are expected. But there is no public scrutiny allowed, and now the State Assembly Speaker is saying that there's no need for each house to pass a separate budget, because the Dems control all three significant portions of the state budget. So the bare bones public scrutiny of separate budgets is now a thing of the past. It's all being done in locked doors.

And the media just doesn't seem to give a shit. To be fair, I have to admit that most of the public doesn't seem to give a shit, either - so...

[ivan astikov]

Otaluki, your bit about "Seemingly obvious questions never asked, or never followed up upon." leaped right out at me.

I get wound up listening to people in authority being interviewed and allowed to spout all sorts of crap, only for the journalist to finally jump in with a totally pointless question.

If I can see these 'openings', the people doing these interviews are being derelict in their duty by missing them.

[Liberal]

I didn't mention the bias, but it really bothers me too. I realize that a human being cannot be perfectly objective, but there are times when the bias is so lopsided that it borders on ridiculous.

I realize there probably aren't many admirers of Congressman Ron Paul here, but the way he was treated during the Republican candidate debates aired on Fox News was downright fucking shameful.

It always went something like this:

Fox News: Senator McCain, what would be your policy on the removal of troops from Iraq? Do you believe the US is bound by treaties made with Iraq's first provisional goverment? And what should the US do about the war in Afghanistan? Should we send more troops or draw down?

McCain: Blah blah blah

Fox News: Governor Romney, what would you do about the US economy? Do you believe we should bail out corporations and banks, or let them fail? And can you explain for those of us not well versed in economics exactly what the outlook will be for hedge funds in the fourth quarter 2008?

Romney: Blah blah blah

Fox News: Congressman Paul, do you believe in flying saucers?

[vison]

Liberal. You poor sod. I feel your pain. I don't watch American TV, which saves me enormous amounts of pain. I do read Vanity Fair, though. That magazine has been wonderful for the last few years - its reporting on the economic crisis and the Bush administration and the Iraq war have been A-1, IMHO. I guess I think so because I agree with it. I am what, in the US, would pass for a Liberal, although that is not my name. In Canada, I'm quite a ways to the Right.

I think we Canucks are reasonably well-served by the CBC. So, of course, given the present horrible state of affairs, the government is going to cut funding to the CBC. Naturally.

I dunno. Most days I want to dig a hole and pull it in after me.

[eleanorigby]

I get my news from the following sources:

The New Yorker
Newsweek
The Daily Show
The BBC noon hour news (on NPR here)
NPR
News links on SDMB, here, Giraffe boards
DailyKos
Huf-Po (but it's a bit tabloidy)


And even they don't quite do it. I miss the daily newspaper, but I can't keep up with it. I don't have time to read it.

[ivan astikov]

p.s. Otakaluki, forgive my mispelling of your name.

I wasn't just being overly familiar - I'd have called you Luki if I was!

[OtakuLoki]

ivan, please - think nothing of it. I assure you I didn't think it was anything more than someone unfamiliar with a rather odd letter combination.

FWIW, if you want a quicker way to refer to me, I'll never object to just being called Loki.

[ivan astikov]

ivan, please - think nothing of it. I assure you I didn't think it was anything more than someone unfamiliar with a rather odd letter combination.

FWIW, if you want a quicker way to refer to me, I'll never object to just being called Loki.

ops: I got it wrong again! Yep, let's stick with Loki, I don't want you to bring about Ragnarok.

[vison]

Offer appeasement, quick!!!

A nice beating with some birch twigs? Some, um, recreational wrestling with the village daughters?

[featherlou]

Would it be fair to say that getting your news from the largest, more varied sources is likely to be the best way? I get local news, I get national Canadian news, I get news from message boards and sources online, and I watch BBC on occasion. The only American news I get is filtered through youse guys, even though there are any number of American news shows available on my cable. Someone getting ONLY local, American news is seriously doing themselves a disservice.

[ivan astikov]

Offer appeasement, quick!!!

A nice beating with some birch twigs? Some, um, recreational wrestling with the village daughters?

That might appease both of us! If we are to be a tag-team, don't worry, I'll give him a shout if I'm in trouble.

[Liberal]

Would it be fair to say that getting your news from the largest, more varied sources is likely to be the best way? I get local news, I get national Canadian news, I get news from message boards and sources online, and I watch BBC on occasion. The only American news I get is filtered through youse guys, even though there are any number of American news shows available on my cable. Someone getting ONLY local, American news is seriously doing themselves a disservice.

Honestly, the problem is that none of it is news at all. It's just commentary. They recycle talking heads who give largely uninformed opinions during puff interviews. Other than that, they read AP copy to the camera. It's embarrassingly bad.

[Tuckerfan]

I don't get as bent out of shape about it as you though, at some point you just gotta square your shoulders and mumble, "Fuck it".

I would agree, but by doing so, we relegate ourselves to being bottoms rather than tops. We are on the cusp of a new system and paradigm of news reporting, and things are still very much in flux. Now we have a glut of information and little analysis. Something will arise in the next few years to fill the gap.

If I had the money, one of the things I would do is set up a "historical news" site, where when something happens, like say, the collapse of Wall St., 9/11, etc., you'd have historians who were experts on events which were similar, giving a detailed (but not so focused on the miniscule as to be incomprehensible to the average person). So, when Wall St. went tits up, you'd have pieces on the 1929 Crash, as well as the other crashes which have happened in history (the 1879 one, the Tulip Bubble, etc.). There would be discussions of what went wrong, why, what worked, and what didn't. Perhaps it would be something to help us avoid making the same mistakes over and over again.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

I didn't mention the bias, but it really bothers me too. I realize that a human being cannot be perfectly objective, but there are times when the bias is so lopsided that it borders on ridiculous.

I realize there probably aren't many admirers of Congressman Ron Paul here, but the way he was treated during the Republican candidate debates aired on Fox News was downright fucking shameful.

Pretty much the same sort of treatment was meted out to Dennis Kucinich on the left. If a politician doesn't fit within the narrow confines of the accepted roles, s/he's defined into a ludicrous caricature and shunted into irrelevancy.

Which pretty much sums up the reporting of "news" in the mainstream media in general -- if it doesn't fit within certain well-worn templates, a story will either be bent, folded, spindled and mutilated till it does, or ignored entirely.

[Petrobey]

Ah, come on people, it's really not that difficult to get objective news info. You just have to be bright, look at a number of sources, and filter well. This has always been the case.

It's ok to get pissed at Fox News or whatever, but don't watch them if you don't like them.

I'm not sure what the "golden age" of journalism is that you seem to miss. If anything our information sources are better than they've ever been.

[Misanthropic Contrarian]

GodDAMN, I hate the fucking news media sometimes. Especially dumb fucks like Chris Matthews and Joe Scarborough.

Apparently, a news report surfaced that Secretary Geithner knew about the AIG bonuses on Wednesday and told the president about them on Thursday. But he didn't express outrage until Friday. Or some such fucking mindless irrelevant gossip hag bullshit like that.

"Why O why did the White House not let us know of these bonuses even though they were public knowledge for months!?"

Well, FUCK A WHORE BACKWARDS!

You're the goddamn NEWS media. Why the hell didn't YOU report the goddamn NEWS!? If there was something we should have known about AIG, WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T YOU TELL US?

You fucking hypocrites. Goddamn stupid pieces of shit. No wonder you're less popular than the Republicans in Congress. No wonder you're going bankrupt. No wonder nobody believes you or gives a shit what you say. You're idiots. You're fucking losers. Fuck you.

The fact that you actually consider Matthews and Scarborough to be actual reporters proves what a complete and total utter fucking moron you truly are.

Scarborough and Matthews are commentators not journalists. The closest either of them have ever come to an actual journalist was in Matthews case fucking one every night, as he is married to Kathleen Matthews who was a reporter for WJLA Channel 7 in Washington DC, and in Scarboroughs case when he gave a press conference as a member of Congress.

It isn't there job to investigate possible news stories ala Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein; their job is to comment on the news of the day.

[ivan astikov]

Delivering 'the news' has never ever been looked on as a necessary public service by the people who matter though, has it? Even today, with all the news gathering methods available, it is more about ratings than it is informing the public.

[Petrobey]

Delivering 'the news' has never ever been looked on as a necessary public service by the people who matter though, has it? Even today, with all the news gathering methods available, it is more about ratings than it is informing the public.

Absolutely. And realising that this has always been the case is part of growing up. At least it should be. Anyone expressing shock at the shenanigans of journalism is naive in the extreme.

[silenus]

The last newsman I trusted was Walter Cronkite.

[ivan astikov]

Trevor McDoughnut. I don't think he'd have lied to me.

[Misanthropic Contrarian]

Delivering 'the news' has never ever been looked on as a necessary public service by the people who matter though, has it? Even today, with all the news gathering methods available, it is more about ratings than it is informing the public.

Who precisely are the people that matter? If by people that matter you mean the President of a network, sure they are always going to be looking at the bottom line, at the advertising dollars. That's their fucking job. If by people that matter you mean the editors of newpapers and people like Edward R. Murrow, they see both sides of the thing. Murrow had his show where he did "fluff" interviews with celebrities because he knew the money pulled in by this would allow him and his colleagues to do more investigative "hard" type journalism.

You apparently have this mindset that the world is only black and white, trust me it ain't.

[featherlou]

<snip>I'm not sure what the "golden age" of journalism is that you seem to miss. If anything our information sources are better than they've ever been.

I agree with you - I think the onus is on the person doing the watching to make sure they have an assortment of sources to be properly informed and watch with a skeptical eye, and unfortunately that is something that a whole lotta people aren't willing to do. It's *comfortable* in your bubble of ignorance and misinformation, you know?