I blame Greece...Originally posted by anyrose
So, Graham, no sticking up for kid sister Collins, huh?
Actually I thought Graham would not think 'reporting' was a big deal - unless Onn were to make a bigger deal out of it.
At least he didn't throw her under the bus...
Heh. Maybe, if he were informed of the circumstances, he'd find it good karma for Collins to get busted for doing the same thing he did back on OCIII that pissed Collins off.
Yeah, Collins has a very short memory. Talk about flawed.
I do want to complement you, choie, on how completely different your characters are.
I think she's flawed in a very consistent way, which makes it good characterization and writing. Real people (and interesting characters) are flawed, and they... we... tend to make the same mistakes many, many times before we change. I can't tell you how many writers I've worked with who give their characters--usually the main ones, their "darlings," so to speak--pseudo flaws that are kinda humblebrags. "She cares too much, she works too hard," etc. You know, stuff you'd tell a prospective employer when asked for your weaknesses.Or, any mistakes they do make turn out to be someone else's fault.
It's my job as a developmental editor to get these (usually inexperienced or never-before-edited) authors to create bone-deep flaws that are damn tough to get rid of, and create genuine problems for the protagonist or those s/he cares about. Sometimes good people, the ones we root for, do ugly things. Real screw-ups. Its those stories that readers fall in love with, wanting to see multidimensional characters learn and grow and mess up and change and defeat the enemies within themselves as well as the villain (however that's defined).
Anyhoo, all this is to say that we're doing a good job if our characters repeat their mistakes. God knows Kylah screws up in the same ways. She lies, she's scared, she makes choices she knows are ethically wrong in order to find an easy escape, she has some pride but abandons it in a rather pathetic need to find approval, she has shockingly poor judgment, and she's so defensive it rolls round to being offensive (e.g. she's experienced some prejudice so now she mistrusts just about all humans).
I haven't worked with Nia enough to really get a handle on what her biggest flaws are, although offhand I'd say her tendencies to take things too lightly and to be judgmental are up there.
Thank you! (I hope that wasn't being snarky?I do want to complement you, choie, on how completely different your characters are.) Yeah it's a pleasure to have someone who has a sense of humor, isn't awash in insecurity, is mature, and--while she certainly has some troubles--hasn't let them define her the way Kylah does. And of course, she has a healthy attitude toward sex, which we know is hardly the case with Kylah.
The biggest thing, though? I can use contractions!!!!! With Nia I get to talk like a person who's way more comfortable with the English language. I know technically there's a Universal Translator, but I'm assuming Kylah is actually speaking English, hence her excessive formality, to the point that even the narrative from Kylah's POV doesn't use contractions. Nia, OTOH, has been with the Federation for 14 years, and she's also not a princess, so she talks like one of the guys. Frickin' relief, that is.
Which reminds me, Nia also knows how to curse.
CIAS does a great job between Johnson and Velir, too. If he wrote a scene between them, without using any dialogue tags or names, there's no way anyone would confuse who's speaking each line.
Last edited by choie; 07 Jul 2015 at 01:39 AM.
Sorry guys, life is busy and will be for the next few days. Will try and keep up as best I can
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
no, it wasn't snarky, and yes, CIAS did that very well, as well.
I doubt, if Dobson were to make a more consistent appearance, you'd be able to distinguish her from Collins without assistance. Which, considering how different my characters are when I am acting, is kind of odd that I can't convey that when I am writing.
Oooh, c'mon Collins, Suspicious and Snarky Rangin (TM) is doing such fantastic jobmaking taking him to the floor and cuffing him if he tries to leave seem entirely reasonable ...
An actual working communicator will soon go on sale. And about time, too!: http://www.startrek.com/article/firs...or-coming-soon
Hand to FSM, I never knew that a Phaser I actually fit into the Phaser II!
Collins then sits back, folds her arms, and props her feet up on the table in a don't-mess-with-me manner
Nicely done!Collins then sits back, folds her arms, and props her feet up on the table in a don't-mess-with-me manner
Graham's ears perk up. Did I hear "measuring contest?" He hails the bridge to ask where the measuring contest is being held.
If I were Velir I'd listen to that message from Nia already. Once a cop claims he should be "ordered" to answer means that it's way past time he was represented by legal counsel. The old "oh just tell the truth if you have nothing to hide" is pro-prosecution b.s. He needs to say the magic words "am I free to go?" If he's not, then he's effectively in custody and he doesn't have to say jack without an attorney present.
...Unless the law is significantly different in the 23rd century or for Starfleet.
Party pooper!
I vote Rangin just keeps pissing both Lunnd and Collins off!
HEY mister, you know I'm an avid fan and cheerleader of the "Velir acts/looks guilty" plot. By now even Collins should have her doubts.
Nevertheless, I just like things to be kept nice and kosher.
Last edited by choie; 08 Jul 2015 at 04:39 PM.
OK, yeah, so Collins, Lunnd, and Graham having a drink discussing the fact that "this pain in the ass just lawyered up" would be awesome....HEY mister, you know I'm an avid fan and cheerleader of the "Velir acts/looks guilty" plot. By now even Collins should have her doubts.
Nevertheless, I just like things to be kept nice and kosher.
So...so...tempting
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
Collins may not be book smart, or have much common sense, but she knows love when she sees it.
Seriously, Collins had better get to Sickbay, because she's got what seems to be a terminal case of Meta Information Syndrome.
In-game, Collins has no idea what Velir's feelings are about Kylah. (For that matter, neither do we: Velir's never used the word "love" when describing his feelings to Kylah either to her or in his own brain.) All she knows is that Kylah says she had hopes for a relationship w/him (acc. to Kylah's statement). Also, Collins has inferred correctly that he's the colleague for whom Kylah bought the infamous black dress. But Velir's side of the equation should be utterly unknown. In fact, Velir himself has displayed nothing but contempt for Kylah over the past couple of hours. Hell, Collins was in Sickbay when he lashed out at Kylah, wasn't she? I'm surprised she's not displaying any curiosity and concern over Velir's bizarre and suspicious behavior, if not as a Security officer, then as a friend?
Given her highly emotional behavior during a crime investigation, maybe Collins's displaying those mood swings she was complaining about? And maybe projecting a bit, regarding her wishes for her own relationship w/Cooper?
Re: the above -- if Collins thinks a guy calling a woman "broken" when she's lying in a hospital room is "love," she's got some really weird ideas on how people in love act.
Last edited by choie; 09 Jul 2015 at 10:58 AM.
She spoke with Rangin on Anubis during the crime scene investigation. She knows he cares for Kylah, or did at some point. And like she said - you don't have negative feelings of that intensity for someone for whom you have no feelings.
I'm still trying to write another chapter in Snipets from Collins' Life, and you'll see some more of her dysfunctional relationship history. I'm just having trouble framing it within the canon I've already established.
And yes, she may be projecting. But it's only been a few hours since she spoke to Cooper and he said he's got a project. She has no reason to think anything is wrong there. [yet?]
Also, she really doesn't like what a hard-ass Lunnd has become since their first meeting, but he's not the enemy, so she can't yell at him.
I kind of like the fact that Collins has jumped to "the woman you love." It's a little demented
Conversely Graham has seen only enough to 'think maybe there's something between them' - but given his nature to jump to the worst possible conclusion on the slightest hint of evidence.
Why is everyone out to get Rangin? What has he done but be sullen and unapproachable?
eta - and when is Kylah going to stop acting like a victim and stand up for herself?
Last edited by anyrose; 09 Jul 2015 at 01:17 PM.
Well, first, after Kylah was pronounced missing, Rangin didn't pass along any information that he knew (as in, he didn't reveal that he'd been down on the planet with her, or left her down there alone). This only became known after the fact, and he admitted it very reluctantly.
Next, acc. to Graham, Rangin was grabbing onto Kylah in sickbay while Kylah accused him of reneging on his promise not to hurt her. (Graham doesn't know that she was still half-dreaming.)
Fast-forward: Rangin then let out a rather vicious flood of insults toward Kylah, in public, revealing a never-before-seen mean side that anyone should've found alarming and very out-of-character. This last part was observed by Collins.
Later, Kylah admitted to Graham that she and Velir had a bad argument and that previously he had disappeared from the bar and she has no idea where he was during the time she was talking to the money changing guy.
Now Velir's refused to answer some important questions, rather than assisting the cops.
As far as Nia and Graham's last scene: Nia's reacting to Graham's recitation of events, and Graham's reacting to what he saw in sickbay and what he's seen all day from Rangin--a lack of cooperation and truth-telling.
Most people who possess all these facts, or even most of them, would find it suspicious when investigating a particularly cruel attack on a woman, one that seems to have a curiously mean-spirited element to it (the stolen uniform and the destroyed zither). Our characters, however much we wish them to, are not omniscient and don't have the knowledge we do.
Of course, Graham's methods of attempting to communicate and find out from Rangin didn't help much either, which have just exacerbated the situation in Graham's eyes and how he relates it to the rest of the crew. Notice how to everyone else who has approached him calmly, like Collins Or Onn, he has been quite reasonable and open depending on the information being passed around.
Then again, Lt Onn just bought Graham's story wholesale despite her previous interactions with Rangin. Nice conclusion jumping there about one of your own crew.
It would be very easy to make Rangin appear innocent, if only he had been totally upfront about everything and talked. But then given what happened, it's understandable he hasn't.
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
Hey, Nia has no reason to think that Graham would lie or leap to the wrong conclusion as quickly as he did when he saw Kylah shrink away from Rangin (and in this case, the conclusion was easy to leap to)--she doesn't know about the bad blood between Rangin/Graham. Plus, she doesn't buy it wholesale--she says if what Graham says is true, then Rangin's a jerk and Kylah's had pretty lousy luck with men today. She still doubts it ("could it be true?" Nia can't be sure...), but nevertheless she thinks he should tell Lunnd what he knows. Seems reasonable enough to me, since she's not infallible and I don't expect her to be.
As an aside, writing as both Nia and Kylah at the same time led me to make a rare screw-up in Kylah's formal speech patterns--she tells Thalen that she "didn't" just wake up--just as I was talking yesterday about how much I was trying to keep both of them consistent. Geeze, I finally get to use contractions with Nia, and that makes it easier to mess up Kylah's speech. Argh!
I was joking- I know she is only reacting to the poor info in front of her.
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
Hmmmmmm. Well okay.And good on Velir for finally remembering to play the "counsel" card!
Well, if Collins had been able to get a word in, before Rangin offered his compromise, for lack of a better term, she'd have said "You dope, she did that because she thought you no longer cared! Any idiot could see that!"
Well then hold on to that and use it after the scene is complete. I you think your character would do something about it, then have her do something about it.
Also, since when did Detectives decide that they had to have an answer for every question they ask, especially given a right to silence?
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
Actually I think you were wise to hold off on that. Collins is a professional, and if she keeps yelling about all this touchy-feely stuff Lunnd is gonna think she's a teenager focusing more on other people's romantic lives instead of a professional ACOS trying to help a fellow LEO.
...Or you can do this.Well then hold on to that and use it after the scene is complete. I you think your character would do something about it, then have her do something about it.
Three things (assuming a U.S.-based system), and of course EH should correct me if I'm wrong here (also, Starfleet may have different rules for officers, and Thoth could have its own laws too):Also, since when did Detectives decide that they had to have an answer for every question they ask, especially given a right to silence?
1) In Rangin's situation, a detective can ask anything he wants, and imply that Rangin is doing something wrong by not answering every single question, and basically be as intimidating as hell short of getting violent*. Mainly because police will take advantage of the fact that most people don't realize that just because a cop asks a question doesn't mean you have to answer. So Lunnd is being true to form, implying every question must be answered, and using intimidation by contacting Roble. If Roble's a good superior officer, he'll likely tell Rangin to speak up, but also tell him that he doesn't have to and might want to talk to counsel.
Why counsel? Because right now, without being under arrest or detained, anything Rangin says is allowed to be used against him. Which, BTW, is why that's the question he should be asking--"Am I being detained/free to go?" rather than "am I a suspect?" Lunnd can pretend Rangin's not a suspect and lie about it, and then turn around and arrest him using the material witness loophole. (More on that below.) But if Rangin asks if he's free to go, and the cop says no, then he's officially being detained (doesn't matter where this happens). And that means Lunnd had better read him his rights if he wants to be able to use anything Rangin says past this point.
2) Lunnd is certainly implying very strongly that Rangin will be arrested for not answering questions, but he can't -- unless Lunnd uses b.s. obstruction charges, even if those are unlikely to stick. But Lunnd has a way around that...
3) Right now, Rangin is greatly at risk of being arrested as a material witness; Lunnd can legitimately believe that Rangin has information that relates to this case, either as a "mere" witness or someone Lunnd strongly suspects of being involved.
This is why almost every attorney, ex-cop, and anyone else who isn't an active cop or prosecutor will tell average folks to cooperate by giving ID, but otherwise do not talk.
EH, how'd I do? I realize jurisdictions differ, of course.
* Uh, ideally speaking.
HEE!! Given Rangin's very British demeanor, I am rather suspicious of the true meaning behind those two fingers.
I plan to have Collins attempt to talk to Rangin once this police interview is done. I don't expect him to be responsive, but she will try.
[QUOTE=choie;249966]Could you mean this?HEE!! Given Rangin's very British demeanor, I am rather suspicious of the true meaning behind those two fingers.
Jurisdictions differ, and although Anubis is a Federation member, none of the ship's crew know the ins and outs of its planetary criminal code. That said, choie gives a pretty fair summary of things. Thanks!
This point has already been passed. Rangin asked it at the end of the first set of questions.
As for the two fingers: I couldn't possibly comment.
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
Heheheh.
I'll be out of town for the next week, so I may be posting a good bit less often here, FYI.
Welllll he asked "are we finished." Anything other than the magic words might be manipulated by a police officer who can (and almost certainly will) simply claim he was saying the questions were not finished. That didn't mean if Rangin had got up, he would have been detained or prevented from leaving--Lunnd seems to have successfully used Rangin's innate politeness and his Starfleet-trained obedience to perceived rules in order to pull a fast one.This point has already been passed. Rangin asked it at the end of the first set of questions.
I know it sounds pedantic but in such a scenario, when dealing with the police, there's all the difference in the world between the dialogue "Are we finished?" / "No" and "Am I free to leave?" / "No."
Standard disclaimer being that this is using my general understanding of U.S. law, which varies from jurisdiction, and of course as EH confirmed, Thoth/Anubis laws can be whatever the heck EH wants 'em to be.
As for the two fingers: I couldn't possibly comment.
Rats! I hope it's for a fun reason--if so, have a great time!
Last edited by choie; 10 Jul 2015 at 11:30 PM.
Crew, fight amongst yourselves...
Collins glances around the Mess, sees it is empty save for her and Lunnd. As he taps the panel for his coffee, she quickly sets her phaser to heavy stun and drops him like a nine point buck. "Gee, I guess he was just really tired." she'll say to anyone who asks
LOL. You made my day!
I'm on the beach in the Outer Banks with my family. I'll still try to post at least daily.
Enjoy the holiday - may it be sunny and clear for you all.
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
We've had rain, thunder and lightning as well as beautiful clear skies and bright sun. A little more of the latter, fortunately.
I think what Kylah and Rangin need is a little "Much Ado About Nothing"* action from their friends. Perhaps Dobson will play matchmaker.
* and if you haven't seen Joss Whedon's 2013 version, you should. If only for the cavalcade of Whedonverse stars.
As Collins sits, slowly and carefully, keeping her hands below the table and out of view of the others, she sets her phaser to light stun and aims, she hopes, at Lunnd's legs. "Detective! Are you okay?" she'll say as he loses his support and crumbles onto the table.
Very cool images from the New Horizons mission to Pluto: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ho...of_Pluto_flyby
It's pretty astounding that we can finally see little Pluto. Which should still be a planet, darn it.
Can someone throw me a helpline regarding what time it is in-game? Last time I asked it was about 3:30, right? It seems that most of the PCs have mutually agreed to go off-duty, but isn't there some kind of... I dunno... official method by which they punch their virtual time-cards? I'm lucky in that Kylah's obviously off the clock, and Nia had an official watch that finally ended at 4PM. But how do we normally go about deciding it's time to eat and recreate and so-on?
Pluto is, and always will be, a planet.
I think its all done in watches, so when the watch ends, everyone on that watch can stand down and go and relax. On watch means you're on duty, off watch means you can go and relax do what you want. I'm guessing the watch changes will be announced through the ship over the intercom.
Sound reasonable?
In the land of the blind, the one-arm man is king.
You lot may enjoy this. One of my favorites (and Neil deGrasse Tyson's as well), by Jonathan Coulton: "I'm Your Moon," a love song for Pluto by its moon, Charon:
Yep, definitely. I get that, but... remember, the whole ship was basically given shore leave for four hours, with the exception of the Bridge crew (and presumably other important folks like down in Engineering and so on). What happens now that they came back? Doesn't the schedule revert to what it was originally, just delayed by four hours? So after shore leave, our gang should've returned to an eight-hour-long watch. Am I making any sense?I think its all done in watches, so when the watch ends, everyone on that watch can stand down and go and relax. On watch means you're on duty, off watch means you can go and relax do what you want. I'm guessing the watch changes will be announced through the ship over the intercom.
Sound reasonable?
There is indeed every probability that I'm overthinking it. I know, you're thinking: CHOIE?? Overthinking something?!! Hard to imagine, but yes.
We'd already been on watch for an hour or two when we were granted the short break, so we came back to half a watch or less. So I'm guessing it's closer to 1730 or 1800 by now. I'm allowing time for actually searching for Kylah, the investigation, and the interrogation. I don't think watches are announced like class bells in high school; rather they depend on personnel to know when they're supposed to be where. Punctuality is expected in the military.
Yes, Pluto is a planet. Without it, we couldn't have "My Very Excellent Mother Just Served Us Nine Pickles".
I know watches aren't announced like high school, but I figured officers have to report to their superiors and so on. Like, to take a purely hypothetical example, are Collins or Graham expected to report to Vargas about the investigation in which they've been participating, and tell him that the Thoth police seem to have ended their involvement? (Assuming they have, that is.) Shouldn't Vargas know if Lunnd would like them to stay in orbit, especially if Kylah might be asked to identify either Lez or the other guys who were captured?
Just seems like Lunnd left without giving any indication what his next moves are, or if he still suspects Rangin, or... anything. Maybe someone should follow up with him?
Sorry, Collins is a little busy right now, playing Cupid; and Graham's torn between two fantasies, so we can count him out for the next several hours.
Perhaps Nia (aka Deus Ex Machina) could take care of that.
Last edited by anyrose; 17 Jul 2015 at 08:47 AM.
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