On Bisexuality

[Zuul]

Some years ago in Savage Love it seemed as though every time someone wrote in asking for advice and mentioned a bisexual partner, Dan would tell them that all bisexuals cheat and that, really, bisexuals should only date one another to save everyone the heartache.

He's eased up on that particular offensive stance, thankfully, but he was hardly alone in that thought process. There seem to be a couple of stereotypes about bisexuals out there even from allegedly enlightened people:

All bisexuals are sluts. The idea is that if you're a bisexual, you'll have to have partners of both genders to satisfy you. You couldn't possibly ever, ever be satisfied with only one person like a normal hetero or homosexual.

Bisexual men are really gay. There is no such thing as a bisexual man, because they're all just gay men who are in the process of dealing with that fact, but need to cling to a nominal attraction to women and so claim they're bi. They might even believe it, but everybody else knows different.

All bisexual women want to have a threesome with you. Yes, bisexual women are all into threesomes and every last one of them is sitting around, waiting for you to ask her to screw your girlfriend. This is why it's the first thing you should ask about when finding out a woman is bisexual.

Bisexuals are straights wanting attention. Yeah, bisexuals are just boring old heterosexuals who think gay is "cool", so participate in the label peripherally by claiming a bisexual status that they never actually act on.

There might be bisexuals who are polyamorous. There might be bisexuals who are into threesomes. There might be closeted homosexuals who use the term bisexual. These are not all bisexuals. There is as much variety among us as there is in any other group.

If a man likes brunettes and blondes and marries a brunette, that doesn't mean he has to cheat on his wife with blondes. That's an idiotic idea. Likewise, bisexuals are perfectly capable of being satisfied with one partner and one gender. Yes, they might fantasize about what they can't have--as everyone does--but there's no reason they'd ever have to act on it.

Bisexuality is a valid orientation in an of itself. It's not just gays in denial or straights looking for attention. Some people simply find both sexes attractive. That shouldn't be surprising or confusing, considering that some people find qualities of men attractive and some people find qualities of women attractive. Bisexuals simply find both attractive.

If there is one thing an openly bisexual woman has heard too much of, it's stupid requests for threesomes. There are plenty of bisexuals who have no interest in threesomes whatsoever. There are even more who have no interest in the kind of idiot who'd ask for one.

And, yes, there are people who go for a "bisexual mystique" but don't seem to actually be bisexual themselves. These are usually celebrities or drunk college girls. The grand majority of bisexuals are just that: people who are attracted to both sexes.

They may appear gay when in a relationship with someone of the same sex, and so that makes people think they were "really just in the closet before." They may appear straight when in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, and so people think they were "just doing it for attention." Neither is true.

Don't believe me? Tell me why bisexuals have to be different from everyone else, then.

[The Original An Gadaí]

I find it interesting that women can and do experiment with their sexuality in a way that would have a man labelled "gay" if he were to do the same. It is as if women are allowed be more complex with regard to their sexuality than men. As you say there's the myth that bisexual men are really gay.

[Zuul]

I find it interesting that women can and do experiment with their sexuality in a way that would have a man labelled "gay" if he were to do the same. It is as if women are allowed be more complex with regard to their sexuality than men. As you say there's the myth that bisexual men are really gay.

I think part of that may be that women are just naturally more flexible in their sexuality than men, and so if a man violates the binary norm it's a bit more difficult to understand. At least, so says a study or two.

But if men are more likely to be only attracted to one gender, I don't think that means that bisexual men are really gay. I'd just assume they're somewhat rarer.

[Exy]

Some years ago in Savage Love it seemed as though every time someone wrote in asking for advice and mentioned a bisexual partner, Dan would tell them that all bisexuals cheat and that, really, bisexuals should only date one another to save everyone the heartache.

Some stereotypes I sort of get, but I've always found this one really, really hard to understand. I remember this from the radio show Loveline as well -- less surprisingly, since Adam and Drew never were as 'enlightened' as Dan Savage is -- but Adam in particular would always say that if someone was in a relationship and "declared" (the word he always used) that they were bisexual, that it signaled an intention to cheat. Because, according to his logic, otherwise you're just gay or straight for the duration of the relationship. I guess there's just no reason to ever mention your sexual identity if you're already in a relationship.

Bisexual men are really gay. There is no such thing as a bisexual man, because they're all just gay men who are in the process of dealing with that fact, but need to cling to a nominal attraction to women and so claim they're bi. They might even believe it, but everybody else knows different.

Well, okay, I get why this must be annoying for bisexual men. But, at least according to the statistics I've heard, there really are not all that many bisexual men floating around out there -- not nearly as many as there are bisexual women. (Whereas there seem to be equally fewer monosexual lesbians than gay men.) I've definitely known men who identified as bisexual who I don't think really were. I would guess that such men are probably more common than actually bisexual men.

Bisexuals are straights wanting attention. Yeah, bisexuals are just boring old heterosexuals who think gay is "cool", so participate in the label peripherally by claiming a bisexual status that they never actually act on.

I understand why this is annoying. But I'm sure everyone here has known "bisexual" women. It doesn't mean there aren't plenty of actual bisexual women, and I'm not claiming it's okay to assume people who say they're bisexual are actually straight until proven otherwise.


Also, bisexuals: please comment on 'bisexual invisibility'.

[Zuul]

Well, okay, I get why this must be annoying for bisexual men. But, at least according to the statistics I've heard, there really are not all that many bisexual men floating around out there -- not nearly as many as there are bisexual women. (Whereas there seem to be equally fewer monosexual lesbians than gay men.) I've definitely known men who identified as bisexual who I don't think really were. I would guess that such men are probably more common than actually bisexual men.

and

I understand why this is annoying. But I'm sure everyone here has known "bisexual" women. It doesn't mean there aren't plenty of actual bisexual women, and I'm not claiming it's okay to assume people who say they're bisexual are actually straight until proven otherwise.

The story I linked to above goes into more detail about this, but yeah, men are more likely to be monosexual than women. Whether or not that means that there are more "not really bisexual" bisexual men than there are actual bisexual men, I don't know, but there are bisexual men and the claims that they don't exist at all are rather silly.

I'd think a fairly useful study on this would be to do a survey of people who identified as bisexual in their youth and see if they still identify that way ten, twenty, thirty years later. Of course, that would be huge and difficult to pull off, but it could at least give us a bit of an idea about the long-term uses of this identity.

Also, bisexuals: please comment on 'bisexual invisibility'.

"Bisexual invisibility" is frustrating, but also not something I really think about all that much. If somebody erroneously keeps referring to me by a particular inaccurate orientation, I may make it a point to correct them eventually, but otherwise I just ignore it.

The thing about it is that bisexuality is so overlooked that to make it un-invisible doesn't just require coming out once. You have to do it repeatedly, because people assume your orientation has changed based on who you're dating. So maybe I do myself a disservice by not making a bigger deal out of it.

[RabbitMage]

It's tough to be bisexual. That's why I switched over to being pansexual, because that's much easier t-oh wait.

[Exy]

I think my mom is bisexual. First she was married to my dad and made me, then she was a lesbian for a long time, now she's gone back to men.

I don't understand that. I don't understand women at all when it comes to sexuality.

[Hatshepsut]

I wish I had something intelligent to add to this thread, but all I can say is - yeah, stereotyping bisexuality is as stupid as every other kind of stereotyping.

[Sarahfeena]

I have a good (female) friend who has had relationships with women as well as with men, but has currently been monogamously married for about 15 years. I never really thought she was bisexual, though...I always kind of thought in her case that it was a combination of a high sex drive, a personality that is generally uninhibitied, and a generally high level of curiosity about new experiences. She's the type who kind of likes to be un-mainstream just for the sake of it, though, so that may have something to do with what may seem like cynicism on my part about her orientation. I do think that lots of people know folks like this, though, and maybe that's why it's hard to understand true bisexuality, or accept that it really exists.

[Zuul]

I have a good (female) friend who has had relationships with women as well as with men, but has currently been monogamously married for about 15 years. I never really thought she was bisexual, though...I always kind of thought in her case that it was a combination of a high sex drive, a personality that is generally uninhibitied, and a generally high level of curiosity about new experiences. She's the type who kind of likes to be un-mainstream just for the sake of it, though, so that may have something to do with what may seem like cynicism on my part about her orientation. I do think that lots of people know folks like this, though, and maybe that's why it's hard to understand true bisexuality, or accept that it really exists.

It's also possible that bisexuals with high sex drives and low inhibitions are going to date a lot of people, so their choice of people of both sexes is more obvious, and then they end up settling down with someone of the opposite sex because unlike people who are strictly gay they can be happy with that and it's more socially acceptable.

The grand majority of people who know me in person don't know my orientation, because there's really no way for them to know without me telling them. I date, but rarely, and have only had two lovers in my entire life. I am probably the most boring bisexual alive.

[Sarahfeena]

It's also possible that bisexuals with high sex drives and low inhibitions are going to date a lot of people, so their choice of people of both sexes is more obvious, and then they end up settling down with someone of the opposite sex because unlike people who are strictly gay they can be happy with that and it's more socially acceptable.

Sure, that's possible, too. The problem when it comes to assessing the true bisexuality of women is that it's politically charged, as well. Everyone knows at least one woman who went gay or bi in college, for instance, and a lot of times that's tied up in making some sort of feminist statement (another strong possibility with my friend). So, again, I'm not denying the existance of true bisexuality, of course, but I just wonder if it's these situations that make people doubt it.

[Zuul]

Sure, that's possible, too. The problem when it comes to assessing the true bisexuality of women is that it's politically charged, as well. Everyone knows at least one woman who went gay or bi in college, for instance, and a lot of times that's tied up in making some sort of feminist statement (another strong possibility with my friend). So, again, I'm not denying the existance of true bisexuality, of course, but I just wonder if it's these situations that make people doubt it.

It probably is. And since it isn't something that's clear cut (someone can be bisexual and yet only have relationships with men, simply because that's how their dating life turns out), the waters can become very muddled and it gets confusing. So, there's "bisexual invisibility" simply because it's not something that can be readily recognized by behavior. Or, if it is recognized by behavior, it's not very flattering.

[ivan astikov]

Don't bisexuals just want to have their cake and eat it?

Look, it's not rocket science; pick one or the other and stop decreasing the market for us hetero-folk!

[Zuul]

Hey, it's simple mathematics. Go with both and you double your chances. Then you can stop bugging us bi-folk.

[Taumpy]

The problem when it comes to assessing the true bisexuality

The problem is the assessing. Just take people's identities at face value instead of questioning them. No matter what the circumstances or your (general you, to be clear) suspicions about someone, they know themselves better than you do.

[AllWalker]

Well, if it's about increasing your chances, there are plenty of single rocks out there...

This looks like one of those problems with a thousand roots. Part of the problem could be that since there is a lot of bixperimentation during the early years that, in many cases, ends in a monogamous relationship, it could be seen as just a phase people grow out of.

But really, it boggles the mind that some people believe bisexuals don't exist or the rest of it. Human sexuality is simply not bound by any rules - people are attracted to what they are attracted to. Given the sheer variety of things people can be drawn to, finding both men and women sexually desirable is pretty straight forward. When you get down to it, human beings are sexy, sexy creatures.

[Exy]

The problem is the assessing. Just take people's identities at face value instead of questioning them. No matter what the circumstances or your (general you, to be clear) suspicions about someone, they know themselves better than you do.

This sounds good, and yet . . . we don't just automatically accept the identities people claim when they appear to be at odds with reality in other facets of life. I'm not recommending prying, or assuming that every claimed bisexual is lying. But on occasions when a snow white person goes on about purported black on American Indian ancestry, they usually get a somewhat dubious reception. Why isn't this the same?

[Taumpy]

Well, for one thing, a "snow white" person with a distant black ancestor isn't dealing with the reality of being black. Maybe the person claiming to be bisexual that's only dated the opposite sex isn't dealing with being queer openly (and that certainly is something you hear from the gay community, that bisexual people don't have to give up straight privilege), but internally you don't know what they're going through. A friend of mine is a bisexual woman (closeted, though) and married to a man, and she hates that she feels like she can't be open with who she is, because people will assume that she's going to cheat on her husband. There really isn't an analogy for that when it comes to race.

[Sarahfeena]

The problem is the assessing. Just take people's identities at face value instead of questioning them. No matter what the circumstances or your (general you, to be clear) suspicions about someone, they know themselves better than you do.

Well, sure, that's of course true. I think it's human nature, though, to be skeptical or questioning about things that we don't understand very well or that we get mixed messages about.

[pepperlandgirl]

I know a gay man who reads a lot of m/m romance novels and he hates, hates, hates when the men are written in the books as bisexual. Now, making one or both of the heroes bisexual in a romance makes a lot of sense and also makes my life easier when I'm writing them. . He cites it as yet another example of women simply not understanding gay men, because of course, bisexual men don't exist. At all. It's pretty annoying to be at the receiving end of one of his rants because he's so angry at the author's abject stupidity--what else other than abject stupidity would lead one to say that bisexual men exist?

I find the whole thing very obnoxious and I wonder how widespread that belief is among gay men?

[Exy]

Pepperlandgirl: Out of curiosity, as I'm not a big reader of romance novels so I don't immediately understand, how does it make it easier to write when you make them bisexual?

[jali]

I think I might be sexually bisexually, but emotionally I'm not. (Is that weird?)

I kissed a girl and I liked it - a long time ago, but I REFUSED to allow any PDA. I was embarrassed. I'm embarrassed to admit that I was embarrassed.

I'm not at all uncomfortable with my lesbian girlfriends - I'll hang out at a bar or club with my friends, and I've gone to "rainbow events" to be supportive and I don't care what any onlooker thinks of me.

I wonder why the PDA with that chick was so upsetting to me.

It amazes me how many guys I know that think (believe in their nasty hearts) that my girlfriends are just dying to screw me... and them.

[Zuul]

jali, I've known people who've described themselves that way before. I've certainly felt it at points in my own life. Sometimes, even if your sexual attraction isn't gender-specific, there are just certain things your heart connects with better.

[Taumpy]

I think I might be sexually bisexually, but emotionally I'm not. (Is that weird?)

I don't think it's weird at all, jali. I was discussing this exactly with another friend not that long ago. He mentioned that he thought he might be bisexual (he identifies as gay) because he's slept with women in the past and enjoyed it, but didn't have any desire at all to be in a relationship with one.

Human sexuality can be pretty difficult to pin down.

[Marsilia]

When I came out to my mom (an event she promptly forgot, or rewrote in her mind), I kept having to correct her misconception that I was telling her I'm a lesbian. Finally, after I'd repeatedly explained that I'm actually bisexual and have a great fondness for men, she told me to stop correcting her. Apparently, in her mind, I'm "a lesbian sometimes."

My mother has no concept of sexuality that doesn't make babies.

[Zuul]

Oh, 0ut0fMyHead. I'm going to have the hardest time not snickering if I ever come visit your mom again.

"A lesbian sometimes." Heh.

[pepperlandgirl]

Pepperlandgirl: Out of curiosity, as I'm not a big reader of romance novels so I don't immediately understand, how does it make it easier to write when you make them bisexual?

For lots of reasons, actually. I fully admit that there are more bisexual men in Romanceland than exist in real life. I think what it comes down to is that the fluidity of bisexuality lends itself to more dramatic situations, which is what you need in fiction. For example, if a man had a sexual relationship with a woman before (or after) the book's main romance, it can often times be easier to say "Well, he's bisexual" and leave it at that. Unless the point of the story is to explore how complicated sexuality can be, then you have the time and space necessary to explore why a man might have relationships with women and still identify as only gay.

[Exy]

then you have the time and space necessary to explore why a man might have relationships with women and still identify as only gay.

Okay, but why is it so frequent that your male characters have had relationships with women?

[pepperlandgirl]

Okay, but why is it so frequent that your male characters have had relationships with women?

Oh, I'm not saying I write it frequently. I don't. In fact, I can't even think of one recently where I've had this situation come up. It's the cumulative effect across the genre (and factoring in the growing popularity of m/m/f threesomes which I have written a number of). So let's say I've written 20 books and 2 of them have bisexual (or "bisexual") men. No big. But if 20 authors with 20 books each write 2 with bisexual men, then all of a sudden there are 40 books featuring bisexual men! Ebooks, where the bulk of m/m romance is published, is a numbers game. It's all about volume. So there could be 10 new releases a week with bisexual men all from different authors for different reasons....

I didn't mean to get into all of this. My point is, male bisexuality crops up often in Romanceland, and when it does, the gay male reader/bloggers castigate the (largely female) authors for it. I was just wondering if it's a widespread belief (it never occurred to me in a million years that men couldn't be attracted to both genders).

[Shodan]

Bisexual men are really gay. There is no such thing as a bisexual man, because they're all just gay men who are in the process of dealing with that fact, but need to cling to a nominal attraction to women and so claim they're bi.

Don't know if this is always true, but many of the gay men I know went thru a period where they were coming out of denial and did say they were bisexual. OK, that's a sample size of only 20-40, and confined to the upper Midwest. But it does happen.

ISTM that sexual orientation is binary but sexual behavior is much more conditioned by socialization. My WAG is that there is an as-yet-undetermined period of life where a child imprints on one gender or the other as The One. Your genotype may have some influence on this. But subsequent to that, your environment can push you in one direction or the other. Thus heterosexual convicts in prison can enter homosexual relationships, or gay people can enter into straight marriages.

You can talk yourself into a lot of things if you try hard enough. Married gay people can convince themselves they are heterosexual. I don't think I need to mention recent public examples. Likewise, they can convince themselves they are bisexual. Or they can say they are gay. But ISTM the basic orientation remains unchanged.

No, I don't have cites for any of this. Deal.

Regards,
Shodan