Is it immoral for a business hiring mostly ex-cons to use that as an advertising draw?

[OtakuLoki]

The impetus for this thread is yesterday's story from the Wall Street Journal about Felony Franks, which can be found here.

In short a Chicago businessman who had been using ex-cons for his resturant paper supply business got the idea to open a hotdog shop, which would be staffed the same way, with the name Felony Franks. The store uses the motif of hotdogs behind bars for much of the decoration, has a mock version of the Miranda Rights posted by the door, and has a felony-themed menu.

Shortly after it opened the owner started getting flak from neighborhood groups. In particular one activist priest in the community accused him of pimping out the convicts he hires.

According to the one worker interviewed in the WSJ story he doesn't feel exploited, and is simply thrilled to have a steady job that is letting him support his family.

My personal feelings is that the motif, and decorations, seem to be in questionable taste. But having said that, given how difficult I understand it can be for ex-cons to get jobs, any jobs, questionable taste runs a far second behind that. Even if there is a justification to the claims of exploitation, I'd think that the benefit of getting any regular work experience so the ex-con can look for her/his next job and say, "I did the window for 8 months, without causing any trouble, and my drawer was never short," is not inconsiderable. Considering that the owner says he's gotten over 1000 applications from ex-cons, I doubt I'm the only person to follow that logic.

I also suspect that NIMBYism is behind many of the complaints for the store, which is always something that annoys me when I see it.

Another imponderable is that I wonder how much resistance a business that was known to hire predominantly from ex-cons would suffer if that were treated as a dirty secret. Obviously there's plenty of room between using that staffing decision as a draw, and treating it as a dirty secret, it's not a binary solution set. Still, I'm far more comfortable with something like this being out in the open, than for it to be hidden, or not mentioned.

Over-all, I think the store seems to be more good than bad. And if the owner's plan to open more ever heads this far east, I'd be willing to say the same at any licensing/permit hearing.

As a postscript: Here's a link to a local review site's comments about the store - which seems more to encapsulate the various reactions from the store, than to talk about the food.

I'm comparing this, in my mind, to Nick Tahoe's - a greasy spoon that boasts of its Garbage Plate. It does a bit to put the menu names into perspective for me.

[Feirefiz]

I think all in all my opinion isn't all that different from yours. The theme is needlessly tasteless, but the general idea of hiring them and being open about it is a good thing.

[ivan astikov]

Anyone who'd complain about such a set up almost deserves to be a victim of crime.

[Sarahfeena]

I can't look at the article right now, but let me guess...the activist priest is Father Pfleger, right? He's the Catholic version of Jesse Jackson...never saw a media opportunity he didn't like.

I say, good on this guy for giving the ex-cons a chance to work for a living.

[OtakuLoki]

I can't look at the article right now, but let me guess...the activist priest is Father Pfleger, right? He's the Catholic version of Jesse Jackson...never saw a media opportunity he didn't like.

I just checked for you. Yeah - you're right, Sarah.

Among those who voiced concerns was the Rev. Michael Pfleger, an activist Catholic pastor from Chicago's South Side. Father Pfleger accused Mr. Andrews of exploiting the African-American men working for him. "He screamed at me, 'You are a pimp,'" Mr. Andrews recalls, an account Father Pfleger confirms.

(From the linked WSJ article.)

[Zuul]

As others have said, it's a bit lacking in taste, but I don't think it's immoral at all. How many of the people calling this exploitation would be willing to give the ex-cons jobs? These guys need work and by the number of applications for the store they're obviously desperate for it.

It's not my cup of tea, but I think it's probably a really good opportunity for the people involved. It's rather disgusting to me that people would want to take that opportunity away to "protect" them from exploitation. There's nothing questionable morally about selling hot dogs. It's not like these guys are being forced into a life of prostitution here, people.

[Exy]

I think it's a sort of funny concept for a restaurant. I guess I can see why people would consider it exploitive of folks who have served their time, but if they don't mind it I'm not about to decide they don't have the right to make their own decision about whether they are being exploited.

[OneCentStamp]

I think it's a sort of funny concept for a restaurant. I guess I can see why people would consider it exploitive of folks who have served their time, but if they don't mind it I'm not about to decide they don't have the right to make their own decision about whether they are being exploited.

I agree on all counts.

[Cluricaun]

Working in the back of a resturant, often as cooks, line prep people and dishwashers is often one of the only jobs that's ever easily available to an ex-con. I've worked with plenty of them in my younger bar and resturant days, so they're already there. At that greasy spoon you hit up after a night of drinking or at that cute little cafe with the goat cheese sandwiches you like. Get it? You already come into daily contact with people who have done time. Most resturants will hire them on no problem, it's a hard, dirty, hot, shitty job with lots of turnover.

These men have served their time as required by their sentances. I'd ask of anyone with an issue about this what kind of jobs that they expect cons to work at. Punishment for mistakes should not be a lifetime sentance that condemns these people to being homeless and unable to support themselves or their families as that, directly, leads to recidivism which is exactly what I'd fathom 99% of cons are trying to avoid. I'm also nearly certain that they don't give two tugs on a dead dogs dick how the resturant is decorated. Only that they can keep steady employment to live on and keep them from violating parole or probation terms.

Plenty of people have commited felonies that they've never been caught for, DUI is a good example. Lots of people have driven when it's not legal for them to have done so. The difference between you and them isn't as far as these loudmouth jagoffs seem to think it is. They can rail and rant all they want until it's a friend or a family member who's looking at doing a stretch. Everyone deserves a second chance at integrating into society and becoming useful and productive members as such, that's why every prison sentance isn't life. I'm going to stop here before I launch off onto a 50 page TLDR epic of a rant about American society and prisons, but suffice it to say that this resturant is in no, way, or shape a bad thing in practice or location.

[Zuul]

Well said, Cluricaun.

[The Original An Gadaí]

I think once the employer makes it clear he's using their status as a draw then there's nowt immoral about it.

[Cluricaun]

I think once the employer makes it clear he's using their status as a draw then there's nowt immoral about it.

It goes beyond not being immoral to me at that point. A chance for the general public to see that interacting with people who have previously been incarcerated isn't going to result in their children being set on fire and themselves being raped and stabbed is a good thing. Alienating people who have done what was required of them is harmful and wrong in some of the worst prejucidal ways there are. A chance for people to learn that not every con is a waste of space and a forever damaged human being is hugely important.

The damage done to people in prison alone is enough. Most of them deserve to retain their humanity and dignity when done with their time.

[Sarahfeena]

I'm glad you said all that, Cluricaun. One of the reasons I really dislike Father Pfleger is that I think that he drags down the people he claims to be helping with this victim mentality. For all I know, he does a lot of work in the neighborhood actually helping people, but when it comes to the media, everything he always says is so negative and defeating that it makes me angry.

[Cluricaun]

One of the reasons I really dislike Father Pfleger is that I think that he drags down the people he claims to be helping with this victim mentality..

Like all other members of the clergy who've come to enjoy media spotlights and become overtly political he needs to be sent to go live on a farm somewhere.

[Hatshepsut]

There is actually a noodle shop here in Jakarta that does sort of the same thing, although the shop itself doesn't have a criminal theme - but the proprietress started it in order to hire ex-cons because she knows how impossible it is for them to find work. I'm not sure whether many patrons are aware of this or not. I would love to go there and see for myself, but so far can't find the place again - I drove by it once but didn't make a note of the location, dammit. And Jakarta is a very complicated and sprawling city, and the shop is too small to be in any local yellow pages.

But I think it's a great idea.

[Sarahfeena]

Through sheer coincidence, I drove past Felony Franks on Saturday night. It's in a sketchy neighborhood near the meat packing district, but the building itself looks new and clean and is well-lit...I would definitely go there to get a dog if I hadn't just eaten dinner! Here's a picture of the side of the buiding:

[Glazer]

It goes beyond not being immoral to me at that point. A chance for the general public to see that interacting with people who have previously been incarcerated isn't going to result in their children being set on fire and themselves being raped and stabbed is a good thing. Alienating people who have done what was required of them is harmful and wrong in some of the worst prejucidal ways there are. A chance for people to learn that not every con is a waste of space and a forever damaged human being is hugely important.

Not just the public but other business owners and managers can see hiring ex-cons as a viable option. As too the theme being tasteless just look at all the publicity his restaurant is getting.

[Fink-Nottle]

I see nothing wrong with it. What's the difference between this and Hooters? It's not like the felons are being tricked into this job. People need to mind their own damn business and stop trying to tell everyone else how they need to live. If you don't like it then don't buy your damn hotdogs there.

And Fr. Pfleger is a big bag of stupid crap.