ST:TOS, The Conscience of a King

[eleanorigby]

This episode is noteworthy for giving us quite a bit of background on Kirk as a teen. It is also riddled with quotes from the Bard (no small thing--what show has that today?). IMO, it is ruined by the wretched acting on the part of the woman (Kodo's daughter) at the end.

It is also kind of fun to see a 23rd century "cocktail" party, even it is given by the Man in the Cloth Mask....

I don't believe that Kirk every truly liked this woman--what is your opinion?

[Zuul]

I didn't think he ever cared for her, no. I think for the allusions to Hamlet to work he kind of needed to have some flirtatious interactions with her, though, as her insanity was clearly a call back to Ophelia. With Kirk's somewhat erratic behavior and subterfuge to get the players on the ship, he was clearly playing a bit of a Hamlet role in this episode, which suited him quite well.

There's one line of dialog that makes me absolutely cringe in this episode, though:

And this ship: all this power, surging and throbbing. Yet under control. Are you like that, Captain?

[pepperlandgirl]

I love this episode so very much. I think it's my favorite from season 1. For the elements already mentioned--all the references to Hamlet and Kirk at least rehearsing a bit of Hamlet's madness. I also love the fact that Spock grasps early on that something is very wrong, and I love why he comes to that conclusion. This is not only a great episode to learn more about Kirk's life, but it's a perfect example of why Kirk and Spock make the perfect team.

I don't think Kirk ever cared for her. I think this was one of Shatner's strongest performances. Kirk was almost hyper-charming, and he even seemed impressed with her when she delivered her unbelievably naive lines (like the one Zuul quoted. I don't believe that anybody was supposed to take that seriously). He's so careful with his manipulation of the situation to get them on the ship, and all of the smiles and charm completely disappears when he's not around her. He was using her.

It's also an unbelievably dark episode. Fandom has picked up on the darkness and made certain assumptions essentially canon. I wish that the writer had provided some sort of explanation for why a 13 year old boy was one of the few survivors who saw Kodos' face. I also wish that there was an explanation for why the other witnesses were all about the same age as Kirk (and O'Reilly was probably younger). I mean, there's the obvious one, but could they really mean to imply something lecherous? Why else would the governor apparently surround himself with young men and let them get close enough to see his face? And it was clearly a very small number. There was never any hint that Lenore was a danger to Kirk's family, for example.

[eleanorigby]

That line makes me smirk, not cringe. (there are plenty of lines that do make me cringe throughout the series). You better believe Kirk's just like that, baby! Ooh, it's getting warm in here.

I, too, think Kirk was using her.Of course, she was truly batshit, and I think he sensed that on some level.

I didn't pick up on any lecherous undertones. I guess if I had thought about it, I thought that Kirk and O'Reilly were like most kids used to be: weaving their way in and out of crowds, getting into places they weren't supposed to etc (does this even happen anymore? It did when I was a kid). I always assumed that Kirk just happened to witness whatever skullduggery Kodos planned (if not the--sorry for this pun--execution of his plan, then the er, planning of it). O'Reilly had to be even younger, so God knows how and where he saw Kodos.


Lenore wasn't born until after the massacre--or so I thought. She's 19-20 on this show and the Executioner happened 20 years prior to, right?

[vison]

It seems to me that I remember that William Shatner did a well-regarded Hamlet at Stratford, Ont. Back in the Stone Age.

Interesting link: http://thehamletweblog.blogspot.com/...e-of-king.html

[pepperlandgirl]

Lenore was born after the slaughter.

But remember that the guy who called Kirk to the planet--and the victim in the episode--was also a young man around Kirk's age. I'll have to watch the episode again, but when they were listening to the computer read off the currently living survivors, were any women mentioned? It just seemed very strange to me that they were the only ones who knew Kodos enough to make a positive ID if they saw him again.

I believe Shatner was in Hamlet, but his most highly regarded role was when he did Henry V as Christopher Plummer's understudy.

[eleanorigby]

Tangential bit: anyone know where I can get a recording of the waltz played in Requiem for Methuselah? Supposedly it's by Brahms.

Any ideas? It's a lovely piece of music.



I could see a young Shatner doing Hamlet quite well. Or Romeo (very young). I don't see him in the comedies--he doesn't spring to mind for 12th Night, for example, but that's not to say he couldn't have done it.


I bought a boxed set of the films that includes something called The Captain's Summit, which is Shatner, Nimoy, Stewart and Riker (forgot his name) sitting around with Whoopi Goldberg talking Trek. It's the best thing about the boxed set, given that the movies are EDITED and are missing some scenes. Grrrrr. That's what I get for an impulse buy w/o my glasses to read the fine print. Anyway, I just wanted to say that in that "interview", Shatner comes across as very human and warm. IMO, he gets flak for just being honest about the burden that celebrity is. I find it refreshing (not having been on the receiving end of such "honesty"). The interview was in 3 parts and lasts almost 90 minutes. Very worth it.

[pepperlandgirl]

The movies are edited? Are you sure? Why would they do that? Can you find a link to the boxset? I want to be sure I avoid it!

[vison]

I am sure that William Shatner was also in a pilot for a TV series about Alexander the Great. Or maybe it was a movie. I saw stills from it, many years ago. He was sorta handsome in an ever-so-slightly puffy way.

Bingo. I wasn't hallucinating.

[eleanorigby]

The movies are edited? Are you sure? Why would they do that? Can you find a link to the boxset? I want to be sure I avoid it!

Oh, I'm sure--and royally pissed that I paid good money ($80) for all 6 movies (and the Captain's Summit--which is almost worth $80 on its own).
In II, the scene where young Preston (Scotty's nephew) says Kirk is as blind as a Tiberian bat (or whatever, it's early morning here and my memory isn't what it used to be) is missing, as is the snippet where, as Kirk and Spock climb the ladders due to the turbolift being out, Kirk tells Spock that that young man is his son. Spock answers drily, "fascinating." It is NOT there.

I'm sure there are more cuts, but those are the 2 I noticed. Each of the movies (WITH their additional features) is on one DVD--so that should have told me right there.

Here it is: STMovies


I see I did better than the list price, but not as well as the Amazon price. Then again, I had it instantly and didn't have to pay shipping. I cannot see even me rationalizing purchasing MORE copies of the films, so I am stuck. Live and learn.

[pepperlandgirl]

Oh yeah, the blu-ray editions I just bought of II, III, IV, have the same problem. They're not edited, though. That's the theatrical release. If you had the DVDs that came in the gray boxes (two disc sets) before, those were all director cuts. I agree it's pretty shitty, and I don't even understand why they would bundle all of them together (I almost bought the same box set but then decided I didn't need I, V, and VI on Blu Ray) without including the director cuts. I guess because Paramount sucks and they plan to release those versions on blu ray later or something.

[dread pirate jimbo]

I didn't pick up on any lecherous undertones. I guess if I had thought about it, I thought that Kirk and O'Reilly were like most kids used to be: weaving their way in and out of crowds, getting into places they weren't supposed to etc (does this even happen anymore? It did when I was a kid). I always assumed that Kirk just happened to witness whatever skullduggery Kodos planned (if not the--sorry for this pun--execution of his plan, then the er, planning of it). O'Reilly had to be even younger, so God knows how and where he saw Kodos.

If you're looking for an interesting interpretation of the incident with Kodos and Kirk rescuing O'Reilly, pick up a copy of the novel "Best Destiny" by Diane Carey, which plays out in flashback, recalling Kirk's youth. I believe Orci and Kurtzman used this novel in part to frame their take on young Kirk for this summer's movie.