Dollhouse, Season 2

[Zuul]

Okay, so who's watching and what do you think?

I'm still enjoying the creepy premise of it all and looking forward to things moving toward the apocalyptic future we saw in Epitaph One, but there's a huge problem with the show that I just can't get over.

And I feel bad about it because I like Eliza Dushku. I really do. Faith was probably my second favorite character on Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Oz comes first). It's just that she was really good at playing Faith and she doesn't seem to be so great at playing a million different people, with forty minutes at best in each episode to make us believe in each individual personality. It'd be a taxing role for anyone, but it's just about impossible for her.

[Marsilia]

Don't tell my manager, but Dollhouse is the real reason I "can't work" Friday nights. Still, I agree with you. Eliza is great in certain roles. She can be badass, she can be vampy (like, sexy, not like fangy), and she even does a good "doll," but some of the roles Echo has had to fill come off more like parodies (I'm looking at you, "Kiki").

[Zuul]

Heh. Kiki. I actually thought Enver Gjokaj, the guy who plays Victor, did an adorable Kiki. He certainly came off like a rather vapid female college student, anyway.

But, yeah. She can do blank and she can do badass, but some of the imprints that require more subtlety seem to be beyond her. Which is a bit surprising to me, since back in the episode of Buffy where Faith and Buffy switched bodies I thought she did an amazing SMG impression.

Then again, acting exactly like somebody else is probably far easier than having to personally create a unique persona every episode.

[Marsilia]

Heh. Kiki. I actually thought Enver Gjokaj, the guy who plays Victor, did an adorable Kiki. He certainly came off like a rather vapid female college student, anyway.

Oh good golly yes! I loved his Kiki!

[NAF1138]

I said at the end of last season that Dollhouse was getting ready to turn into the best sci-fi show in TV history. I think it still has that potential, but so far they haven't picked up the ball and run with it the way I hoped they would. I still like it, but it feels like it is missing the driving force that was the FBI storyline. It's still really interesting, and I trust that the creators know what they are doing. I loved last weeks episode and only wish that they hadn't tried to shoehorn echo into it so much. I think if the show is going to continue to evolve and grow it needs to be "Dollhouse" and not "Echo in the Dollhouse." She was totally unnecessary to the serial killer plot, though I did love Victor as Kiki. The show has some amazing actors.

[Zuul]

Yeah, I definitely agree with that, NAF. I was so thrilled after Epitaph One and really felt like there was some driving force behind the show. Now, it's hard to remember that, but I know there's going to be some sort of payoff at the end. There's never been a Joss show that didn't.

If it was more of an ensemble and less of The Echo Show it would be a lot stronger, IMHO, but that's pretty unlikely to happen when Echo is played by one of the producers.

[pepperlandgirl]

Not only is Echo played by one of the producers, but Joss Whedon explicitly and expressively wrote the show for Eliza. He said he hated to see her squandering her potential in bad movies, and wanted to give her a high profile show specifically to showcase her talent. Now, that's not to say it would never be an ensemble piece. Buffy and Angel both became ensemble shows, I think. But I also think we won't get to see Dollhouse naturally evolve into its niche as its cast gels together because I doubt it'll survive S2.

[Zuul]

Joss thought this format would showcase her talent? What was he thinking? I really am an Eliza fan, but I just don't think the show is a good fit for her. She'd do better where she could work herself into a particular character really well. The sort of acting required for Echo is more along the lines of what Enver Gjokaj does, which is disappearing into the role.

There's a lot of talent on the show, but it's just not set up in a way to show Eliza's.

[NAF1138]

Joss thought this format would showcase her talent? What was he thinking? I really am an Eliza fan, but I just don't think the show is a good fit for her. She'd do better where she could work herself into a particular character really well. The sort of acting required for Echo is more along the lines of what Enver Gjokaj does, which is disappearing into the role.

There's a lot of talent on the show, but it's just not set up in a way to show Eliza's.

I agree. And even though Joss might have thought that Eliza could pull it off (and she isn't doing a terrible job, it's just a LOT to ask) he should be recongnizing that it is limiting the show, not only in terms of what the actor is capable of, but in terms of what the writers can do.

I literally groaned when they shoehorned her into that episode. It's a testament to the quality of the world building that they have done that the other players are able to carry the show better without echo than with her, but now that they have built the world they need to actually start using it.

[Marsilia]

Not only is Echo played by one of the producers, but Joss Whedon explicitly and expressively wrote the show for Eliza. He said he hated to see her squandering her potential in bad movies, and wanted to give her a high profile show specifically to showcase her talent.

The Joss quote that comes to mind is from the E Online interview he gave before the first season started. "Eliza can do anything."

[Zuul]

Last night's episode had very little Echo in it and that, I think, was one of its strengths. I was worried that they'd try to shoehorn her in in some sort of heroic role, but luckily they kept the focus tight on Sierra and Topher.

This episode was rather disturbing pretty much from the moment it started. Since that's obviously what they were going for, I'd call it success. As 0ut0fMyHead said to me on IM, Echo might be "Number One," but Sierra is Topher's favorite. He'd thought that he had truly done something beneficial to someone and was horrified to discover that he was really just an accomplice in rape and kidnapping. Of course, considering that Sierra's situation is just a more dramatic version of what happens to all of the actives, I wonder what that realization is going to do to Topher over the long term. It seemed like there might have been some hints that this is the start of his eventual mental breakdown shown in Epitaph One.

I'm really eager to find out about Victor's past, now. I'm starting to wonder if some sort of PTSD event is what led to him being in the Dollhouse.

[Marsilia]

I've got to agree. I was really impressed with the episode as a whole, making the characters look at the morality of what they do on a regular basis to the dolls. I've been wondering, though, how "recruiting" is handled. There have been references to how "s/he came to us" in past episodes. Do people come to some kind of intake office and ask to be erased, or is it more like what happened with Prya/Sierra (unstable or mentally ill people brought in for "help").

Back to the episode, I really did like the ensemble feel to the show and hope they keep that up. What they did have of Echo felt more organic to the episode than the "shoe horning" in the last one. As I also told Zuul in IM, there wasn't a regular character I didn't like in this one.

[Zuul]

Well, we know in Caroline's case that they can be essentially blackmailed into it. Was there ever any statement on how November came to be an active? She seemed pretty grateful about her experience, since it gave her a ton of money and got her over the grief of having lost her daughter. Victor obviously has some traumatic experiences in his past. It could be a lot of them are people who really were looking to forget.

Did anyone catch what was actually written on the inside of Echo's bed? I saw the word "kill" and "mountain" but couldn't make sense of any of it.

[pepperlandgirl]

I really loved that episode. It's easily my favorite of the season, and possibly the whole series. I love the moral complications, the exploration of what the Dollhouse is all about, and Topher's first "moral dilemma." I've never been so impressed with him. I loved how the tension was handled as well. I guess it's a little ironic that Jonathan Frakes directed it, given how much I loathe him on ST:TNG. But this episode pretty much overrides my Riker hate.

[Zuul]

Jonathan Frakes directed? Huh. I didn't know that.

Yeah, this is definitely my favorite episode so far of this season. I think the only episode in the series that comes close to my love for this one is Epitaph One. Breaking out of the "Echo's assignment of the week" mold really does this show a lot of favors.

The line from Adelle about Topher lacking morals and always seeing people as toys, but being very good to his toys, was interesting and really stuck with me. It does seem to describe him well, at least in broad strokes, but we've been seeing ways in which he's breaking away from this. His interactions with Dr. Saunders were probably the start, and then this horrible situation with Sierra.

[Marsilia]

Well, we know in Caroline's case that they can be essentially blackmailed into it. Was there ever any statement on how November came to be an active? She seemed pretty grateful about her experience, since it gave her a ton of money and got her over the grief of having lost her daughter. Victor obviously has some traumatic experiences in his past. It could be a lot of them are people who really were looking to forget.

What really got me thinking about was the situation with Sierra, and how she didn't really have a choice in becoming a doll. If we go with the idea that some of them choose to be dolls, then I'd assume that they're not given the whole story about what that will entail. Because, if people were informed that they might be sent to fulfill some stranger's romantic or sexual fantasy, then that would be entirely different from what was going on with Nolan.

[Xan]

It seems the less Echo is in an episode the better it is.

[NAF1138]

I loved this last episode. It was maybe my favorite of the series, and is exactly the type of thing I was hoping they would do. Shame it's looking like a sure thing that the show will be canceled now. They aren't going to air it for November Sweeps. That's usually a very bad sign.

[Zuul]

I loved this last episode. It was maybe my favorite of the series, and is exactly the type of thing I was hoping they would do. Shame it's looking like a sure thing that the show will be canceled now. They aren't going to air it for November Sweeps. That's usually a very bad sign.

That is a pretty bad sign. If they have the warning to be able to wrap it up, we'll probably get an "Epitaph Two" and Joss will kill everyone we love in a horrible and brutal manner.

[Nrblex]

Whelp, it's been canceled, so I guess everybody had some issues with it like you guys.