ST:TOS; The Apple S2/Ep 34

[eleanorigby]

Funky beach blonde wigs, bizarre face painting and ochre colored bodies--some Eden the ST crew stumbled into. Good ole Vaal--one hungry bastard for explosive rocks (and who among us is not? I ask).


This episode has lots of social commentary about the human condition, but I can't rise above the campiness of the costumes and the makeup. I do like Spock's wry riposte to Jim's, (in reference to a wristlet of flowers placed on their arms by the natives),"Spock, it does something for you."

Spock:", Yes, Captain, it makes me uncomfortable."


Does this show raise more serious questions for you? Were Akuta and his people truly stagnating? What about the Prime Directive? Should there even be a Prime Directive? ST routinely ignores it anyway. Is the end of Paradise truly initiated by sexual awakening? What about the violence Vaal has the natives do? Isn't that the end of Paradise as well? And how and why does the Enterprise just up and leave the people w/o aide in the form of mentors, scientists , anthropologists etc? Pretty shitty of the Federation, if you ask me...

Jump right in!

[eleanorigby]

Why, Eleanor--your remarks on this episode show a true understanding and mastery of all things Star Trek. I continue to be awed by your percipience is unbounded. Truly, your threads are legion.

[eleanorigby]

Aw, shucks, Rigs. I'm blushing over here. I just try to do my small best... trying to matter on the great Intarweb and all. It's having such a welcome forum and such a great group of fans such as yourself that makes it all worthwhile. I learn from every thread I start--thanks to you and folks like you.....

[Rube E. Tewesday]

Ok, I'll jump in.

What the heck makes a society "stagant"?

Kirk's disregard for the "Prime Directive" of his organization helps us understand why a Fleet containing ships from God knows how many worlds can never win a war cleanly...there ain't no discipline at all.

[eleanorigby]

Ok, I'll jump in.

What the heck makes a society "stagant"?

Kirk's disregard for the "Prime Directive" of his organization helps us understand why a Fleet containing ships from God knows how many worlds can never win a war cleanly...there ain't no discipline at all.

Good point--how does one define stagnant? And isn't ignorance bliss on some level?

I don't get what you mean by "there ain't no discipline at all" re Starfleet, though. Expound, please.

[Rube E. Tewesday]

Good point--how does one define stagnant? And isn't ignorance bliss on some level?

I don't get what you mean by "there ain't no discipline at all" re Starfleet, though. Expound, please.

OK, let us assume that the Klingon Prime Directive is "acquire planets for Empire".

Let us assume that a Klingon captain reports that he did not acquire a fresh planet "because the society was stagnant, and the Prime Directive only applies to living planets".

Is the Klingon captain:

(a) left to continue having merry space adventures; or

(b) cut into two pieces,and the rest of the Fleet marched between the pieces.

OK, between the two militaries, where is the kind of discipline needed when the big one is on the line?

[dread pirate jimbo]

Four -- count 'em -- FOUR dead redshirts in this episode. Woo Hoo!

I think this episode may have been the first time the words "Prime Directive" were actually used in an episode. Typically though, the non-interference directive only comes up when Kirk and crew decide to violate it. I'll give credit where credit is due -- TNG actually did deal with the Prime Directive in a more meaningful way and Picard's crew did actually respect it and follow it... most of the time. For the original crew, it was mainly there as a discussion point and an obstacle to get around, not so much as an inviolable rule carrying dire consequences for persons who break it.

[eleanorigby]

I think the subtitle for this episode is "Spock and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day".




Come to think of it, Kirk et al did destroy quite a few "worlds": Adonis, this one, Miri's, the "native American" one. Any others anyone can name off the top of their head?

[dread pirate jimbo]

We're coming to another one very shortly in Catspaw...

[dread pirate jimbo]

Good point--how does one define stagnant? And isn't ignorance bliss on some level?

I don't get what you mean by "there ain't no discipline at all" re Starfleet, though. Expound, please.

OK, let us assume that the Klingon Prime Directive is "acquire planets for Empire".

Let us assume that a Klingon captain reports that he did not acquire a fresh planet "because the society was stagnant, and the Prime Directive only applies to living planets".

Is the Klingon captain:

(a) left to continue having merry space adventures; or

(b) cut into two pieces,and the rest of the Fleet marched between the pieces.

OK, between the two militaries, where is the kind of discipline needed when the big one is on the line?

I would correct the Klingon Prime Directive to perhaps say "Conquer planets for the Empire" rather than "acquire." There is no honour in merely acquiring them, so that doesn't strike me as the sort of directive the Klingons would come up with. And on those grounds, stagnant society or not, that planet would have to be subjugated, period.

As to Federation discipline, especially where the Prime Directive is concerned, again TOS glossed that whole thing, preferring only to even broach the subject when the Enterprise was about to mess with someone's planet. Subsequent series went into greater depth on the subject -- I even recall an episode of Voyager where Janeway was reminiscing about the "good ol' days" of Kirk and crew and how they were truly out on the frontier where there wasn't a Starbase around the next corner to ask for direction and that captains pretty much had to command by the seat of their pants rather than follow every rule without question. So I like to think that, at that time, the entire Federation was still trying to get a handle on the nature of the Prime Directive and so captains were granted a certain amount of latitude if they could justify their actions after the fact. I would assume that's a big "if." And, even into TNG, captains like Picard do violate the Directive without losing their command, so long as they can justify their actions. I don't think that's a compromise of discipline, but rather some wiggle room in Federation policy. Either way, the captain who steps over that line can rasonably expect to be facing a tribunal to answer for his/her actions as soon as he gets to the next space port.

[eleanorigby]

I agree. And Kirk says several times throughout TOS that he has put his career on the line. What is an adventure series w/o risk? If protocol and discipline were kept at all times, we wouldn't have much of a show. Or, more likely, we would have a much different show, one that would have been too sophisticated for the time of the original airing (if, as I'm assuming, the drama and conflict would have come from us watching the Big Three struggle helplessly against the PD or watch them do end runs around it in devious ways. It may have been more psychologically thrilling, in a way, but not action oriented).

[What Exit?]

Yep, the Feds at there worst in this one. Those people suddenly left to fend for themselves and not even a reasonable breeding population. They need help after what Kirk did.

Though I did like the Costumes.

[dread pirate jimbo]

One other thing this episode reminds me of is that I got my picture taken with Leonard Nimoy yesterday.

[eleanorigby]

One other thing this episode reminds me of is that I got my picture taken with Leonard Nimoy yesterday.

You are such a fucking tease. I'm not even going to ask you about this. If you can't man up and start a thread about your meeting Spock, I'm sure I don't care WHO you met yesterday.
Hmmph.




Can't start this week's thread tonight. Will start after work tomorrow. That'll show YOU.

[dread pirate jimbo]

Your emotional outburst is illogical.



(I think we need a Spock smilie...)

[OneCentStamp]

Your emotional outburst is illogical.



(I think we need a Spock smilie...)