Saving Domebo

I don't think it's any big secret that we are having big problems at domebo. I am hoping that we can fix that, and we need input from everyone. First, I'd like to outline what I see as the major issues. Please note that these are coming from me and represent my opinions only. I am posting this to get feedback and hopefully get people on board to make some big changes, in fact, it might be better to think of it as a complete overhaul. The things I think we need to figure out are:

1) The general philosophy. This place was founded on transparency and group rule. While I think the spirit of this is important, I think that perhaps it was interpreted too broadly. Having the whole board weigh in on every decision is problematic, at best. What we need is a strong, reasonably well-respected mod staff who we trust to make board decisions on our behalf. AND the ability to replace mods if they aren't working out. We need, IMO, to focus on solving problems through moderation, vs. being afraid to take a stand. On the other hand, we need to be able to distinguish between things that need moderation and things that don't, and in order to do this we need active mods who can help each other. Which is not to say that every mod needs to be involved every second of the day, but we do need mods who are willing to invest in this board. I know we just eliminated some mods, but if this means adding one or two more, we may need to do that. And not through elections, please!

2) The leadership. This is CRSP's board, and I respect that. But sometimes, big decisions have to be made. In the beginning, he was doing that, but lately he has seemed less interested. Responsibility for admining AND modding has fallen on What Exit's shoulders, including a lot of unnecessary drama, and he is getting burned out. If we lose him, we are in big trouble. He needs help making both the big and small decisions...from removing mods when need be to getting our banner on all the skins and the front page. If CRSP doesn't want to do it, then we need to figure out another solution.

3) Domain issues. I'm not sure if folks are aware of this, but What Exit? has been blocked from Domebo at work. Elmwood over at Giraffe explained to us that we have probably been classified as a "social networking" site (vs. a messageboard) with websense or some other major webblocking software, due to our chat function. Apparently, many work places block social networking sites. So, if this is what's causing Jim's problem, then others may have the same problem, which will cause our traffic, small as it already is, big problems. So, we are going to need to figure out how to fix this...perhaps a new doman and IP address will be necessary.

4) Chat. I know chat is controversial, but I think it is part of the culture of this board at this point. That being said, there needs to be a true effort towards ensuring that it is an asset more than a liability. Which IMO means that there needs to be tighter restrictions on what goes on there, with all fights being moved to the TDome, or even 101 if necessary. For better or worse, chat is the "face" of the board to the outside world. When people encounter unfriendliness there, they assume the rest of the board is the same. We chatters need to be ambassadors for this board, or we will be the only people left here. Chatters need to also have personal committments to posting on the rest of the board (I include myself in this and will make a stronger effort, I promise!)

A couple other issues with chat: 1) it seems to be the cause of our blocking problem, and 2) the code apparently sucks donkey balls, and causes much frustration for What Exit? and McNutty. McNutty has been very kindly giving us use of his server, but he is very busy now with the new wee one, and might be glad to have some pressure taken off his shoulders as well. To this end, Giraffe kindly made some suggestions today: First, that vB has chat plug-ins, so if we switch to that, the code problems should be solved. Also, that we could switch to a managed host, such as URLjet.com (their original host), which will take the load off McNutty and may help solve the blocking problem (? I think? I don't know too much about the technical stuff!) Whether or not we will get classified as social networking again due to chat, I don't know, but if anyone out there knows about that and can help us, please don't be shy!

So, that's how I see it. In closing, I want to say that I love this board, and want it to succeed. It doesn't have to be the busiest board on the internet, or even as busy as Giraffe. But I would love for it to be a place that people don't leave because they are bored to tears, either! So, please, tell me what you think...let's get this place going again!

Oh, and one last note...as soon as I post this, I am going to send an e-mail to CRSP, letting him know I have posted it, and asking for his help and input.

Unfortunately I cannot comment on this at length because I have to go to bed soon and I won't be on very much tomorrow. But I don't have an issue with anything Sarah has said here and I agree with the issues she is targeted here (in fact we all kicked these ideas around earlier, in the dreaded chate. :wink: )

Re: Chat - there's something that we can do right now. Every single person in chat (starting with me) can take responsibility for not fighting in there. No more fights there. None. Our mods don't need the hassle, and our front page doesn't need the drama. I'm not saying that chat has to be all sunshine and rainbows, or even that you can't be a little bitchy in there, because there is no way to change that unless you re-write human nature. I'm saying that if a knockdown-dragout starts, it needs to go out of chat IMMEDIATELY. We, the chatters need to take responsibility for this and self-police. If there is something you've got to say to someone or you will bust, say this first - "Meet me in the Dome". Or take it completely offsite to an IRC channel or something. All of the other things on Sarah's list will take days or weeks to work out, but this can start right now, tonight. Let's do it, whores.

I am a huge fan of chat. I think we all know that. I love having it as part of the board. But, and my but is very big, I think it needs to move completely offboard for a while. I think we should go back to something like mIRC until we figure out what exactly is happening with the site. People who know this sort of thing at GB have said, as long as chat is affiliated with the site, we're going to run into issues with blockers. Chat should leave until we can figure out a way to include it without tripping any alarms.

I also think we need to reimage who we are. Are we still domebo? As you are all aware domebo was DoMeBo which was a shortened form of Doper Message Board. I think that association is hampering us. It makes others who are aware of the history view us as a board of whiners and complainers. We need to kick that to the curb. Maybe this means adopting Dumbo as a mascot. (I personally am not a fan of this process. I strongly believe that the words we use reveal our feelings and since we are not dumbos but intelligent and capable people, I dislike using dumbo as a moniker.) I also understand that others probably don't want to lose the connection to what has gone before either and I understand that. I don't really have an alternative available but I really think we need a new name, a new domain and a new start.

Which ties in nicely with Sarah's first point. Who are we? What is our purpose? Are we here to snark or sympathize or both? Are we here to educate or satirize? What does the community want? I want a place that is a refuge from the outside world where I can unwind from stresses, share my life and crack a few jokes. The other question is what can we offer not only to prospective members but to each other that isn't at GB? What is going to make someone who posts at both places want to put a thread here rather than there. I don't know.

Issue 3 - I think we need a new domain, isp, etc. without chat! If we add chat, we solve nothing! I also feel that the new site needs to reflect our new philosophy so that needs to get hammered out first.

If chat is important to people, and obviously it is, then we need to accommodate it.

But let me offer a perspective from someone who will never chat, and who will leave domebo if it becomes impossible to be a full-fledged member of the community as a non-chatter (I already feel this is a problem for me, and I've found my interest in domebo waning as a result):

1) Chat relies on a variety of people being on line at exactly the same time. Thus, it calls for everyone to be in more or less the same time zone, or for the membership to be so large that we have members awake and chatting no matter what the time. Since I am not in the same time zone as most members, and we don't have a lot of people awake when I am (Allwalker and sublight are the only exceptions I can think of), that alone makes chat less appealing to me.

2) Chat relies on having blocks of free time, and I don't. I am typing this message during a brief lunch break, but I need to be able to stop at any time to go see what's just been delivered to my in-box. If you are drafting a post for a thread, you can stop for 5 hours if something comes up in real life, and finish your thoughts later. You can't finish chat on your own schedule - conversations are a "now or never" proposition.

3) Chat is exactly that - it's chitchat, and it's ephemeral. It isn't well-reasoned debate or material you can go back and review at your leisure to savor a well-written argument or a cleverly crafted joke. It's more akin to talking rather than writing. For me, the beauty of a message board is that it allows me to communicate on a range of issues with writers - smart people who organize their thoughts for clarity and persuasiveness, and take some time to polish their words for rhetorical effect.

I'm not saying chat is bad, and I am most certainly not implying that people who chat can't or will not write. Domebo's active chatters tend to be very good writers whose postings I enjoy. But more and more these days, it seems like what they are writing about is what they said in chat. This is fine, but it means domebo is moving in directions I'm not interested in following.

That is exactly why I think chat should be moved offboard for the nonce. The board is what we need if we want to retain a global audience. I like CairoCarol and would like her to stick around.

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Originally posted by Inner Stickler

The board is what we need if we want to retain a global audience. I like CairoCarol and would like her to stick around.

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Aww gee, I'll stick around then! :smile:

What Exit? and I have been discussing this (and his blocking from work) via e-mail. It's become apparent that I don't have the time now that I did when I first started this site, and the situation is only going to get worse come September (final year of PhD funding). As much as I've invested time in the site, and don't want to let it go, it's become obvious that the site needs an owner who has to be around enough to fix problems as they happen etc. So, for the good of the site, it's probably going to be best that I step down, and find somebody else to take over who does have the time to invest in the board and managing the site, assuming that we have a volunteer (if not, I'll stay on)?

Thank you, CRSP, for your honesty about your situation. I guess the first order of business is to figure out if there is anyone who wants to take over from CRSP. Is there anyone out there in domebo land who has experience with message boards?

Also, I wanted to add that while I enjoy chat, for me personally, the first priority is the message board. There are plenty of valued and loved posters like CairoCarol who prefer not to chat, and first and foremost this is a message board. That being said, I think the thing to do is figure out what to do with the domain for the MB, and then worry about chat later. Any thoughts?

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

Also, I wanted to add that while I enjoy chat, for me personally, the first priority is the message board. There are plenty of valued and loved posters like CairoCarol who prefer not to chat, and first and foremost this is a message board. That being said, I think the thing to do is figure out what to do with the domain for the MB, and then worry about chat later. Any thoughts?

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Adding my thoughts really quickly - we cannot change our classification on Websense until we get a new domain at the very least, so yes - we need to make a plan for that and then figure out chat. Until then and until we are ready to move, we need to leave chat where it is - maybe move it off the main page (although that would not help with the blocking issue) but frankly, as long as we are all on our good behavior for the next little while, I don't think that will be necessary either.

Thank you for your honestly, CRSP. I don't know how to solve the issue of who takes over the board, but I will say that I think we need a couple more mods ASAP. I think pepperlandgirl should be reinstated immediately. I also think Sarah here would be a good mod as well, but I don't mean to volunteer her for a position that she may or may not be able to take on.

Myrna, I didn't mean to dump chat immediately because you chatters can't control yourselves! ;) I meant that the most important thing is to move, and if we can only move the messageboard for now, then we should worry about chat later. I like the idea of the chat plugins that vB has, and I think that's something to investigate.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need a couple more mods right away, and second the pepperlandgirl nomination. As far as I am concerned, I think I could do it timewise, but I really don't know the first thing about it from a technical standpoint. So, I don't know whether to volunteer or not!

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

I will say that I think we need a couple more mods ASAP. I think pepperlandgirl should be reinstated immediately. I also think Sarah here would be a good mod as well, but I don't mean to volunteer her for a position that she may or may not be able to take on.

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I would be happy with pepperlandgirl or Sarahfeena as a mod. I would also be happy to do the modding thing myself. I've never done it before, but I'm here quite a lot, as evidenced by my post count, and I think of myself as pretty even-tempered.

Whether being a mod would put me at the vanguard of a Domebo resurgence, or simply moving deck chairs on the Titanic, I love this board and have invested a lot of myself in it, and would rather put more into it at this point than disengage when the going is tough.

OneCentStamp, I'm so glad to see you post here, and volunteer to be a mod. I would be 100% behind that idea, in fact.

The tech side of modding is easy. I have a primer that answers most of it that we need to enhance a bit. But it works well.

I like all three volunteers for the job. Mod is not as much a position of authority here at Domebo but just a position to help out. As long as people stay laid back and we use 101 more for situations where we are unsure, I don't think we can do much harm. We have to get use to 101 as more like the Box on Giraffe. It will often be used as a short break and lets the person stay on the board and argue in a better location or plead their case.

Another adavantage of vB would be the better functioning of 101. They can set a person in a the box for about 7-10 choices of length and it is all automatic after that. We go through a lot of steps to get the users in and out.

I also would like to consider the idea of having mods given some ownership over forums. I worked a lot harder for G&S when it was mine honestly. I don't mean, mods stay out of other forums, but forum leaders seemed to help the forums.

I am more than willing to try and make whatever changes we decide to do. Before we set it in motion I would plan to get as much help from Giraffe, 7, Elmwood and others that are willing to give. We need to listen to their advice and setup the new board well to start with it. On GB they've done a great job on the tech stuff there. I know there are others that know what they are doing in vB. If they offer to help, I would want to listen.

I brought this up in the very beginning but I still think it might be worth considering. You could form some kind of non-profit voluntary association to run the board. I don't know the most suitable legal setup in the UK (or the US) but I can give you a brief overview what this would mean in Germany. I am sure something reasonably close could be arranged in other countries.

• A number of people would join this association under their real-life identities. Their membership there doesn't have to correspond to anything on the board.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• Those people have equal votes in an assembly that makes the fundamental decisions for the association.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• They give themselves real, enforceable bylaws. You don't have to develop those from scratch. Templates are easy to obtain.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• The assembly elects (and possibly impeaches) a board and/or chairman who runs the day-to-day business.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• Typically members pay a small fee that is the major source of income for the association, but that's optional.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• Such an association has corporate personhood and limited liability. It can own assets and enter contracts in its own name.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• It has to pay taxes, but only on actual surplus which is usually not a great concern. The paperwork once a year remains.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]

Yes, it is possibly overkill and it would generate extra work. Nevertheless I think that the additional work is manageable compared to the amount of work that is required to run this board anyway. It also has a number of advantages:

• The board would not be tied to any single person.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• People with an interest in the board could be represented even without any day-to-day "office" and nothing prevents them from taking a more active role later.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• It solves the question what happens when key players decide to leave. (short answer: not that much)[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• If the board has to collect money one day things will be much easier.[/*:m:2urnvl5v]
• It solves the problem of making legitimate and binding decisions. Everything not specifically sanctioned by the bylaws (e.g. open on-board polls) could be handled via "executive privilege."[/*:m:2urnvl5v]

As long as this place is what it is, it won't be anything different. (Confused yet?)

This place was created originally as an almost carbon copy of the SDMB.
Same forum names, everyone here was an ex-member.. the only thing "unique" about it was you had some vision of this non-SDMB paradise.

This place is based around the fact that you guys wanted somewhere better than the SDMB. How can you be anything besides "a group of former-sdmb'ers creating their own message board"?

It's going to have to stay a general board because that's all you're here for.
Sure you can have Mod elections, or custom titles, or hate-speech in your Pit, but in the end it's the same cookie with different icing.

As ive said before, this place started out WAY to big for what it was.
You're going to naturally get smaller and smaller until you're a comfortable yet active community with just a few boards.
-About Domebo
-General Questions
-Debates
-General Discussion (With The Pit as a sub-forum)
-Possibly one more speciality forum
(Or whatever fun names you want to give them).

There's no secret to success. Somethings work and some things don't.
This place didn't in its initial launch so don't think of yourself as competing with Giraffe anymore. They won. (I know, it wasn't a competition..).

"Domebo" can't be saved. Domebo will die.

Start over.

Sarah, I couldn't agree with your thoughtful ideas more.

I've been much less active, and almost completely off chat, since I got into a series of unpleasant conversations with the chat-crew regulars a month or so ago that made me think, "Don't you have better uses for your time than to argue over stupid shit with people you don't know very well and who know you less well?" Rather than converting the chat crew to a vision of me as a decent person with differing opinions, I decided instead, "Oh, fuck it. Let them think what they want to think."

And since the board here is mostly chat, I simply haven't been posting very much. Too goddamned much of Domebo is concerned with modding, admiining, being sent to room 101, etc. which is pretty boring to me but seems very exciting to other folks. My problem with the SD wasn't that the mods were following terrible principles of banning, suspending, chastising etc posters, but that they were applying those principles in a very dick-like, and yet dick-less, fashion, set down by the chief Dick, EZ, and his braindead deputies of Dum, Tuba, Tom and Marley. But I think it makes some sense if we agree to empower our mods, and let them have a free hand, making an occasional mistake now and again. Jim is a good guy, as most of the mods you've suggested are, and the posters here who've given them a hard time recently are, IMO, just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. I'd have no problem in suspending their posting priviliges for an hour, then a day, then a week, then a month, then forever. Playing Whack-a-Mole with them as we've been doing seems kind of pointless to me.

I agree, prr. Entirely too much energy has gone to complaining about mods here.

So, here's my first question...who IS going to be in charge? I think we need to start the process of getting on vB, getting a new domain, and moving ASAP, but that's just one girl's opinion.

ETA: I like the concept of what Feirefiz suggested, but that seems a little overly complicated for us.

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Originally posted by The J Word

As ive said before, this place started out WAY to big for what it was.
You're going to naturally get smaller and smaller until you're a comfortable yet active community with just a few boards.
-About Domebo
-General Questions
-Debates
-General Discussion (With The Pit as a sub-forum)
-Possibly one more speciality forum
(Or whatever fun names you want to give them).

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I think you overrate the forum hierarchy. Does anyone really think of the forums as "places" that need a minimum traffic to survive and develop their own culture? To me, they are labels attached to threads in order to make them easier to find or to avoid and to provide some hint on the kind of discussion that you are looking for. Board/chat/front page - that's a real distinction where you might read one but not the others.

I am in favor of pepperlandgirl, Sarahfeena, and OneCentStamp as mods, with the caveat that we need to be wary of making too many mods for what we have. I think it would be better at the moment to have 4 or 5 dependable mods with the time and energy to split up forums between them rather than 10 who each have one small subforum to watch over. We also may want to lose some of the forums until traffic picks back up. Having a bunch of smaller forums that get a little traffic each looks deader than a few forums getting the same amount of traffic.

I like your ideas Sarah. I agree with most of what you say in your first post. I think that the staff have already taken steps to move in that general direction, but for the most part it was too little too late. Winston got frustrated and went off the rails. I am not able to participate in chat at work and am not online much of the time after work, so I, like CairoCarol, feel largely disconnected from the boards these days.

I don't have a problem with chat, but if the board has become a chat site with a message board attached to it, as I have seen suggested, then I am just not all that interested. There are many others who seem to feel the same way. Beyond that chat is causing real problems in terms of people being blocked at work. My favorite suggestion so far has been the one to return to an IRC channel temporarily until things get solved.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

So, here's my first question...who IS going to be in charge? I think we need to start the process of getting on vB, getting a new domain, and moving ASAP, but that's just one girl's opinion.

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I would be ok with Jim taking over and maybe stepping back from a direct moderation position. I love Jim, and I think he is a great admin for the boards, I also think that the person running the show should not be directly involved in modderation. In my mind Jim is an ideal candidate. He has been the face of the staff for a long time now.

As for the suggestion that we need more mods...I am not sure why. I think this is a case where more does not equal better and that adding more mods will only make things more difficult. If Jim does (or even wants to) take over CRSP's role, we will need a new mod to replace him. We probably need someone to replace Winston Smith who will most likely not be rejoining the mod staff, but I don't think we need to add to our ranks.

If there are any mods who would like to step down, please speak up! Don't feel like you have to remain in a position that you find stressful or frustrating. I like everyone here and I want everyone to enjoy being here and not regard it as work or a headache. I can only speak for myself, but I will not feel betrayed or let down if anyone wishes to abdicate as it were. And maybe no one does and that's great too, but I want to make sure that no one feels they have to do this for us.

Also. I feel very strongly that Sarahfeena should be one of the new mods.

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Originally posted by NAF1138

As for the suggestion that we need more mods...I am not sure why. I think this is a case where more does not equal better and that adding more mods will only make things more difficult. If Jim does (or even wants to) take over CRSP's role, we will need a new mod to replace him. We probably need someone to replace Winston Smith who will most likely not be rejoining the mod staff, but I don't think we need to add to our ranks.

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I think that we need to replace Winston, and I think we need at least one or two people in addition to that. It's not because this place is so full of strife and discord that we need somebody around to take a firm hand--it's because sometimes shit does happen when nobody is around. I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds that highly frustrating. The solution isn't too make the mods be around more, but to add reinforcements. I cannot tell you the number of times that I've seen What Exit? in chat, wishing he had somebody else there to help him with a decision (or wonder of wonders, make a decision himself) and there literally isn't another member of the staff online, and may not be for hours (certainly not until after he's got off the computer for the night). I mean, look at what just happened with Winston. You didn't even know what was happening until after it was over. CatInaSuit wasn't online at all during the day. What Exit? had to deal with his the SBSO nonsense. Zuul didn't have proper access to the admin panel, and then went out for the day. So the problem was allowed to continue for much longer than it needed to. And that's a major issue for me. Quite frankly, while I don't need a mod staff hovering 24/7 and freaking out over every little thing, I would prefer knowing that the chances of somebody being online when the board actually has traffic are higher than they are right now.

I'm happy to assume the role of moderator again if the general consensus of the board is that I won't be too much of a fuck-up, but even if I wasn't nominated, I'd feel the same way about the number of staff.

As for chat--I'll be honest, the thing that keeps me coming to this board every single day is the chat. Sometimes I have a daily routine and I visit many message boards. Other time, I'm too busy for that, so I neglect them. But chat makes Domebo seem...dynamic. There's almost always a discussion happening. It's in real-time, it's fun, and even when I'm frustrated with work or feeling completely alone for whatever reason, I can go there and have a conversation. Which is a lot more fun and a lot less pathetic than posting a new OP with "Guys, I'm bored and lonely. Please somebody talk to me." I'm not saying that it needs to be on the front page, but I just want to add my opinion about its contribution to the board. There doesn't have to be an "us vs them" attitude, and while chat can sometimes be heated, it doesn't have to be. I've never had a fight with anybody in chat. I've had a few arguments with What Exit?, but those were debates, not declarations of war or anything.

I like chat too, but I really think that we're going to have to decide which is more important to us, chat or the presence of people like NAF and CairoCarol. She made a very good point that chat is nice for you and me because we live in relatively the same timezones. Others do not and they and some other posters are feeling shut out because of it. I do not want that to happen. I am sure that chat must be moved offboard, possibly permanently if we are going to save domebo.

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Originally posted by Feirefiz

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Originally posted by The J Word

As ive said before, this place started out WAY to big for what it was.
You're going to naturally get smaller and smaller until you're a comfortable yet active community with just a few boards.
-About Domebo
-General Questions
-Debates
-General Discussion (With The Pit as a sub-forum)
-Possibly one more speciality forum
(Or whatever fun names you want to give them).

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I think you overrate the forum hierarchy. Does anyone really think of the forums as "places" that need a minimum traffic to survive and develop their own culture? To me, they are labels attached to threads in order to make them easier to find or to avoid and to provide some hint on the kind of discussion that you are looking for. Board/chat/front page - that's a real distinction where you might read one but not the others.

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There are two schools of thought on this.

One group says "Having a lot of forums SUXXORS because they'll be mostly empty and empty forums are depressing, plus it's too hard to navigate if there's too many forums"

The other says "The longer something's on the first page of any given forum the better, narrower forums make for better, more focused forums and "hard to navigate"? We're talking a web page, not trying to navigate Taiwan blindfolded while drunk and with no map."

I fall more into the latter category. Almost everyone else falls into the first. Neither side will EVER convince the other---ever. It's like arguing "Which is better: blue or green". I say, have a poll, whichever side gets the most votes (and it'll be the first one. I'll bet money) wins. The end and the other side has to say "Good show, old chap" and otherwise shut up or get boxed.

For me, I don't see a problem with say, an "Arts" forum with subforums like "Written", "Film", "Music", "Fine Arts" and then under, say, "Written", having "Science Fiction/Horror", "Non-Fiction", "Classics", etc. Or "Games" which has a "Sports" subforum which has a "baseball", a "basketball", a "hockey" or whatever forum. One advantage to this is that none of the other SDMB spin-off boards do this. It would be a way of A) distinguishing yourself and B) maybe giving a specialty area for posters who only want to talk about one issue.

Anyway, just a thought.

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Originally posted by pepperlandgirl

As for chat--I'll be honest, the thing that keeps me coming to this board every single day is the chat. Sometimes I have a daily routine and I visit many message boards. Other time, I'm too busy for that, so I neglect them. But chat makes Domebo seem...dynamic. There's almost always a discussion happening. It's in real-time, it's fun, and even when I'm frustrated with work or feeling completely alone for whatever reason, I can go there and have a conversation. Which is a lot more fun and a lot less pathetic than posting a new OP with "Guys, I'm bored and lonely. Please somebody talk to me." I'm not saying that it needs to be on the front page, but I just want to add my opinion about its contribution to the board. There doesn't have to be an "us vs them" attitude, and while chat can sometimes be heated, it doesn't have to be. I've never had a fight with anybody in chat. I've had a few arguments with What Exit?, but those were debates, not declarations of war or anything.

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This is a fine point. And I am not going to say that I want to take that away from you, I have always taken a live and let live stance on chat, but I am going to say that right now I think that the cost outweighs the benefit. The web filter reclassification of Domebo as a social networking site is enough for me to say that I think it is a serious problem. IS is right, at the very least, for the short term, I think chat needs to be moved.

As for the mods issue, you make a good point about not having enough mods so that there is always someone online. In the mean time we do need someone to take over for Winston who has been officially removed from the staff. I'll bring up the issue of expanding to the rest of the staff and see what they think.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

ETA: I like the concept of what Feirefiz suggested, but that seems a little overly complicated for us.

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Yes, it is complicated and it requires work.
However considering the work that is already invested into this place by all the mods and admins I don't think that it would be out of proportion. For better or for worse running the board just is a major effort.
The genuinely new work that isn't already done by anyone would be limited. It sounds overly complex and bureaucratic at first but it doesn't have to be in practice. After all let's not forget that the current situation isn't exactly a model of simplicity and efficiency either.

There is no question in my mind, NAF, that the board is more important than chat, and whatever we have to do with chat to solve the classification problem is probably going to have to be a given.

I'm hoping that the rest of the staff will see this thread, and give us their opinions in here! :)

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Originally posted by Feirefiz

I brought this up in the very beginning but I still think it might be worth considering. You could form some kind of non-profit voluntary association to run the board. I don't know the most suitable legal setup in the UK (or the US) but I can give you a brief overview what this would mean in Germany. I am sure something reasonably close could be arranged in other countries.

• A number of people would join this association under their real-life identities. Their membership there doesn't have to correspond to anything on the board.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• Those people have equal votes in an assembly that makes the fundamental decisions for the association.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• They give themselves real, enforceable bylaws. You don't have to develop those from scratch. Templates are easy to obtain.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• The assembly elects (and possibly impeaches) a board and/or chairman who runs the day-to-day business.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• Typically members pay a small fee that is the major source of income for the association, but that's optional.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• Such an association has corporate personhood and limited liability. It can own assets and enter contracts in its own name.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• It has to pay taxes, but only on actual surplus which is usually not a great concern. The paperwork once a year remains.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]

Yes, it is possibly overkill and it would generate extra work. Nevertheless I think that the additional work is manageable compared to the amount of work that is required to run this board anyway. It also has a number of advantages:

• The board would not be tied to any single person.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• People with an interest in the board could be represented even without any day-to-day "office" and nothing prevents them from taking a more active role later.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• It solves the question what happens when key players decide to leave. (short answer: not that much)[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• If the board has to collect money one day things will be much easier.[/*:m:2r13kgbu]
• It solves the problem of making legitimate and binding decisions. Everything not specifically sanctioned by the bylaws (e.g. open on-board polls) could be handled via "executive privilege."[/*:m:2r13kgbu]

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You know, this might not be a bad way to go. I know that a couple of specialty message boards that I used to post on essentially did the same thing when the original message board owners had to give up the site for various reasons.

I don't see why we couldn't implement something like that here. It isn't as complicated as it sounds, it is possible, and it would have many of the benefits that Feirefiz outlined.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I'm hoping that the rest of the staff will see this thread, and give us their opinions in here! :)

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Me too. I know that a link has been posted on the mod forum, so we should have other people weighing in soon.

Great! Thanks, NAF!

When I rule the world the main page will be more of a general directory, like the directory plaque in the lobby of an office, not a prized destination for the one-click chic.

When I rule the world live chat will be freely available to all in a neat little social forum full of recipes, pictures of cats & kids and other lite, cafe style, fair.

When I rule the world live chat will also be freely and seperately available in a proper fact and opinion forum. A place for serious discussions about not only empirical items but debate over the hypothetical.

When I rule the world live chat will be once again freely and seperately available in a literature and fine arts type forum for live discourse of posted artistically poised threads.

When I rule the world live chat will be freely and yadda yadda yadda Games forum. Where such a chat function can be moderated and facilitated to bring some turn based games into a more real time environment, or where sports can be discussed during games where a thread would be cumbersome.

Whe I rule the world, I will have the time to devote to ruling it, which I currently do not. Otherwise I would offer to moderate or administrate some something or another.

The short line is, maybe chat isn't killing domebo, maybe a lack of direction isn't killing domebo, maybe... just maybe... it's a combination of both of these. Build it and they will come, lay out some plywood and a couple of hammers and someone will come but they may or may not build what fits and works, or at least what would work well with leadership and direction. Not that I've anything against our Crispy host, current or previous staff members but it is what it is, domebo is a barge adrift.

If you get rid of the chat I doubt I'll stick around. I find the chat worth coming back for time and again, the main boards less so. I have a presence on domebo, giraffe and sdmb and I'd say my time spent on SDMB has diminished, and of the otther two I spend way more time at domebo.

Fenris, I simply feel that with activity as it is, we don't need a lot of forums. If it gets to the point that threads of a particular variety or flavor are taking over a forum then yes giving them their own space is a good idea. But I really feel that with the number of forums we have now, we might as well rename the place Tumbleweed Junction.

An Gadai, no one wants to eliminate chat completely but it is causing problems. And I'm not talking about TEH DRAMAZ. Things like What Exit? being blocked. A side has to give in order to make this work and as a chatter, I am willing to put up with offshore chat for the time being.

I am too if it remains as popular and fun.

On my lunch break and here for a bit because I can't stay away from you whores. This thread is jumping (which is great!).

Pepper's explanation for why we need more staff is perfect. All of the mods we have right now are good mods, and I don't want to lose any one of them (unless they feel that is what's best for them personally). Everyone just needs to give as much time as works for them. Adding even two or three active mods will I think take a lot of pressure off the staff and will ensure things get done.

Frankly, I kinda feel this discussion has settled on chat to the exclusion of other important issues. I feel some people are creating a false dilemna here. We don't have to choose between chat and posters like Carol and NAF. What we need to do is make sure there is enough activity in the forums to interest people like them. This is what I, personally, think we need to do - get a new domain for the boards. THEN create an offsite chat and then create a page here linking to that chat. PIMP THE HELL OUT OF IT and try to maintain as much of a community connection between the two. There are Dumbos that interact mostly in chat and we need them, too. We need everybody.

ETA: I also want to add that I like the idea of OneCentStamp as mod.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

Frankly, I kinda feel this discussion has settled on chat to the exclusion of other important issues. I feel some people are creating a false dilemna here. We don't have to choose between chat and posters like Carol and NAF. What we need to do is make sure there is enough activity in the forums to interest people like them. This is what I, personally, think we need to do - get a new domain for the boards. THEN create an offsite chat and then create a page here linking to that chat. PIMP THE HELL OUT OF IT and try to maintain as much of a community connection between the two. There are Dumbos that interact mostly in chat and we need them, too. We need everybody.

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Well said. And you make a good point about taking care of first things first. First we need to get Domebo to a new domain, and one that doesn't have chat so it won't get compomised again. Then we figure out the rest. The chatters are as important as the non chatters, and we don't want to lose anyone. More importantly, if we do things right we shouldn't have to.

Quote:

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Originally posted by NAF1138

Quote:

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

Frankly, I kinda feel this discussion has settled on chat to the exclusion of other important issues. I feel some people are creating a false dilemna here. We don't have to choose between chat and posters like Carol and NAF. What we need to do is make sure there is enough activity in the forums to interest people like them. This is what I, personally, think we need to do - get a new domain for the boards. THEN create an offsite chat and then create a page here linking to that chat. PIMP THE HELL OUT OF IT and try to maintain as much of a community connection between the two. There are Dumbos that interact mostly in chat and we need them, too. We need everybody.

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Well said. And you make a good point about taking care of first things first. First we need to get Domebo to a new domain, and one that doesn't have chat so it won't get compomised again. Then we figure out the rest. The chatters are as important as the non chatters, and we don't want to lose anyone. More importantly, if we do things right we shouldn't have to.

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I agree 100% with this, as well.

I think leadership here is the first and most important issue, and you are going to want to choose your leader and assistants very carefully. The leader here has to be someone who is going to stand up to the strong, vocal and negative personalities on this site (and also someone who actually wants to have someone telling him to fuck off as soon as they make a decision the strong personalities don't like). What Exit is a great guy and has worked his ass off for this site, and I don't say this as a criticism of him, but I don't think he has the stomach to keep his boot on the neck of the troublemakers here. The past lack of leadership here has cost Domebo a lot of good posters who just won't stick around for all the drama - they don't want to see it, they don't want to participate in it, and I believe they don't want to be on the rough end of it.

Sarahfeena and OneCentStamp are also great people, very nice and pleasant, and would be about the worst choices for moderators here you could find, unless you are actually searching for moderators who will be easily rolled over by the strong personalities. I don't think pepperlandgirl is objective enough to do what will need to be done here to keep things under control.

I disagree. I think Sarahfeena would be a very effective mod because she is so nice. I don't want to make her cross with me!

Even though I'm on GB more, I really do want to see DoMeBo succeed. I guess it's because my own message board has been in the position of being the underdog before; not necessarily against other message boards (it's the largest English language message board for its topic area, and the site shows up as the second link in a Google search for the subject name), but in the quest for respect among those in the urban planning profession. For many planners, listservs are still the way to communicate with others in the field (forums are perceived as being unprofessional), and a news/blogging site gets more attention and recognition, although not more visits, by what the message board community calls "blueshirts" or serious "planner's planners". We've done a lot of soul-searching at the site, and we still do it from time to time.

My message board doesn't get a ton of posting activity by SDMB standards; about 200 to 400 posts a day. Still, there's a strong community, with get-togethers of members, members helping find other members jobs, and real-world friendships. There's even been two couples that have met and married through the site. The message board has been online since 1996, and it's up to about 460,000 posts; we'll hit big-boards.com status sometime in 2010. Sure, traffic could be higher, but I think we're a success, because of the site's longevity, sense of community, and contributions to the planning profession -- especially the planners in the trenches. We've had our crises, and we've worked through them for the most part.

Anyhow, what I'm trying to say is that post count alone is not the only way to measure the success of a site. DoMeBo can be a healthy, thriving yet smaller message board. There needs to be a critical mass to survive, though, the decline of posting activity and exodus of members has to stop and reverse. There needs to be churn; people don't want to wait days or weeks for someone to reply to their post. There also needs to be a sense of identity; that it's not just a "better SDMB". GB has a nice niche between the SDMB and SA.

My unsolicited advice, some of which is repeated from previous threads:

1) The site looks unfinished; default Joomla theme with no mods, and default phpbb theme with only a new header. Finish it.

2) Uhh ... never mind finishing it. Get vBulletin. It's easier to administer, easier to cuustomize, easier to mod, and it's what people are used to.

3) Board organization: check out all the message board admin sites, and you'll find best practice is to maintain fewer busy subforums rather than many slow subforums. Remember, churn is key to critical mass. People want to post in forums that are busy. Add subforums when demand warrants. Fenris may mean well, but new boards that start off with too many subforums usually die.

4) Offer features that other SDMB spinoff boards don't have. GB invested in the blog plugin. Maybe consider Photopost, an image gallery.

5) Chat: you've got to do some real soul-searching about it. Right now, it's the killer app of DoMeBo -- the only thing I think that is keeping what remains of the userbase "sticky" -- but it's also going to cause the site to become blocked at more and more workplaces. If chat becomes the only reason for DoMeBo's existence, and it remains front and center, you have to live with the consequences of it; e.g. the site being blocked. I think the only solution may be to get a new domain name and IP, and offer a link to chat ONLY for members with more than a certain number of posts. (It's possible to display different headers and menus to different user groups and post counts with vBulletin; it's not possible with phpBB.) As seen by a search engine or a cube dweller in the offices of a blocking software company's office building, the site cannot offer any indication of there being a real-time chat feature whatsoever, or even an association with an off-site chat.

As far as the IT departments of many workplaces are concerned, real time chat is the equivalent of hardcore porn. Even hinting at a chat feature to a visitor will cause problems. I can't emphasize this enough.

Thank you so much for your input, Elmwood! I think we've pretty much come to the conclusion that we need a new domain name and IP, as you suggest. I also think we are leaning towards switching to vB. I'm not sure if we will need help with all that, but if we do, would you be willing to help us?

Just checked and it looks like domeboards.com is available. That would keep us as domers, but get away a little bit from the original meaning of the name. What does everyone think?

ETA: For that matter, domechat.com is also available, if it needs its own domain name. Or would it be a problem to put chat right in the name?

Quote:

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Originally posted by featherlou

Sarahfeena and OneCentStamp are also great people, very nice and pleasant, and would be about the worst choices for moderators here you could find, unless you are actually searching for moderators who will be easily rolled over by the strong personalities.

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I really have no interest in lobbying or campaigning for this, but in fairness to Sarah and myself I will point out that being nice and pleasant, and the ability to make fair judgments and maintain order, are not mutually exclusive. Look no farther than our little-sibling-now-big-sibling, Giraffe Boards, to see evidence that light-hearted, gentle moderation can be just as effective as stomping on necks.

Now, if your concern is that, beyond simply being a nice guy, I'm a shrinking violet or a dishrag in conflict or tense situations, that's another matter entirely and if you feel that way, then you're right: I would make a lousy moderator. But I disagree. :smile:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

Just checked and it looks like domeboards.com is available. That would keep us as domers, but get away a little bit from the original meaning of the name. What does everyone think?

ETA: For that matter, domechat.com is also available, if it needs its own domain name. Or would it be a problem to put chat right in the name?

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I like Domeboards.com.

I like it a hell of a lot more than domebo, and I am not all that attached to the original meaning.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

Just checked and it looks like domeboards.com is available. That would keep us as domers, but get away a little bit from the original meaning of the name. What does everyone think?

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That sounds like a fine idea to me.

And keep the fill your dome and baldie and stuff?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Inner Stickler

And keep the fill your dome and baldie and stuff?

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I don't think we're at that point yet, Sticks. I mean, sure, we could, or we could come up with better/different ideas. The key now is to get a new name and get on board with it.

Ok. I'm just curious. domeboards is cool with me though.

I am not a huge fan of the baldy. I know it was voted on and everything, but I feel like a lot of those posters who loved it aren't really here anymore. But I like the idea of keeping the dome name. It will provide a bit of continuity and at the same time make the board name a tiny bit more sensible.

Quote:

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Originally posted by NAF1138

I am not a huge fan of the baldy. I know it was voted on and everything, but I feel like a lot of those posters who loved it aren't really here anymore. But I like the idea of keeping the dome name. It will provide a bit of continuity and at the same time make the board name a tiny bit more sensible.

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Besides, "Dumbo" is so witty. I'd hate to take our chances on the Snackers coming up with anything that good again. :tongue:

I like baldy, but I'm totally open to whatever. I think we just have sort of identified ourselves now as "domers," and it would be easiest to just continue that.

Quote:

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

Quote:

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Originally posted by NAF1138

I am not a huge fan of the baldy. I know it was voted on and everything, but I feel like a lot of those posters who loved it aren't really here anymore. But I like the idea of keeping the dome name. It will provide a bit of continuity and at the same time make the board name a tiny bit more sensible.

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Besides, "Dumbo" is so witty. I'd hate to take our chances on the Snackers coming up with anything that good again. :tongue:

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How could anyone not love Dumbo?

I think another thing to do is to talk to McNutty. I was hoping he would be around, but of course he is busy. If he can't devote time to it, then I think Giraffe's suggestion of a managed host is a good one. I think I mentioned that in my OP, but there's so much to talk about it's getting lost, and it's probably the first thing that has to be decided upon.

Quote:

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

Look no farther than our little-sibling-now-big-sibling, Giraffe Boards, to see evidence that light-hearted, gentle moderation can be just as effective as stomping on necks.

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Although, truth be told, we have a spreadsheet on who gets to stomp on necks, if and when neck-stomping becomes an option. I got first dibbies.

*Puts on a spiked collar*

Sarah, I just finished a reply to Roo over on the GB and realized I should be making these points here. May I ask a couple non snarky questions and offer an unsolicited opinion?

1. My main problem solving philosophy is to always solve for C (A + B = C). Can you tell me: what is C in this case?

2. Do you have both short and long term goals? If so, do you mind mapping them for me?

3. Opinion: ISTM that right now, the 'who' is not as important as the 'what.' The who, right now, could be anyone. Myrna could coordinate; from what I've seen thus far, she's good at it and she's not afraid of making decisions. That's all you really need. Don't make this too drawn out. Give yourself a deadline to make these decisions and another for implementation. If it's one thing I've learned in management, it's that working without timelines means things get dragged out forever.

Once you have your goals and an implementation team, the rest is gravy. The look is cosmetic; you can pretty it up once you get the primary, important projects done.

Okay. That's my nosiness done. And of course, you can tell me to fuck off and mind my own business, no hard feelings.

No, Marissa, I appreciate input from whoever wants to give it! Thank you!

Let's see. In thinking about this, I think the short-term goals are as follows: We need to most likely find a new place to host the board, we need to change our domain name, and we need to find people who have the tech savvy to do all this (we may have people around here who can do it and are willing to do it, we just need to hear from them).

Long term goals are harder. I guess to find a critical mass for this board so that there is enough posting to keep people interested, to finalize the look of the board, and get moderation into the swing of things so that we can control stuff around here without sending one lone admin over the edge.

I agree that one person needs to coordinate it. Probably on this board it should be someone who has not been involved in a lot of the drama, though, so as much as I love Myrna, I'm not sure she's the right person.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I agree that one person needs to coordinate it. Probably on this board it should be someone who has not been involved in a lot of the drama, though, so as much as I love Myrna, I'm not sure she's the right person.

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I really appreciate what Marissa just said but I agree I am probably too controversial a figure to coordinate the whole thing. I am here though, and will help with anything that needs to be done.

I have a domain that I could stick chat on if you'd like as a temporary or permanent addition. Let me know and I'll experiment with it.

My host has message board software and whatnot for free but I haven't experimented much with it. I can if anyone's interested.

Oh, one other goal inbetween short and long term...find a solution for chat so we aren't classified the wrong way.

Wow, thanks, Julie! It might be a good idea for you to look into it if you wouldn't mind.

P.S. We've missed you around here.

Okay, let's map this some.

Short term goals:
Obtain new IP and set up a conversion date
Contact CRSP, Jim & McNutts, get all to agree on a date and time by which all data will be converted
Once timeline is set, send out emails to all informing them of the transition and put up an announcement sticky
temporarily house Chat with Julie if possible (to be moved onto the board later)


What am I missing?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

No, Marissa, I appreciate input from whoever wants to give it! Thank you!

Let's see. In thinking about this, I think the short-term goals are as follows: We need to most likely find a new place to host the board, we need to change our domain name, and we need to find people who have the tech savvy to do all this (we may have people around here who can do it and are willing to do it, we just need to hear from them).

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Short term. Absolutley. We need to get the board to a work safe domain. Priority 1.

I would put finalizing the look of the place in that catagory too. Same with switching to Vb if we are going to go that way.

Quote:

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Long term goals are harder. I guess to find a critical mass for this board so that there is enough posting to keep people interested, to finalize the look of the board, and get moderation into the swing of things so that we can control stuff around here without sending one lone admin over the edge.

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I think getting a critical mass of posters is probably the end result we need to reach, but we probably need to step back a bit farther and figure out why we lost them in the first place so as not to repeat the same mistakes. We had a critical mass at one point, but it does seem to be gone now.

So first figure out what happened, then figure out why we are here. What is it about domebo that we like? Why is it worth saving? Why would anyone hang out here and not at Giraffe or the SDMB? If we can come up with some answers we can focus how we grow.

Quote:

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Originally posted by MarissaW

What am I missing?

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I think that's it. Can we temporarily redirect this domain to that one so people don't get lost in the shuffle?

I think so. That would be a technical question I don't really have an answer to, but IIRC, 7 moved us from one server to the next without a hitch. The question is: is that going to simply be taking your trouble with you? I mean...you want to lose the 'social network' designation...is that going to follow you if you simply redirect to a new site?

Oh! And when do you plan on having 'short term' done by?

Good question, Marissa. It depends on availability, but let's say by the weekend? Is that enough time?

Quote:

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Originally posted by MarissaW

I think so. That would be a technical question I don't really have an answer to, but IIRC, 7 moved us from one server to the next without a hitch. The question is: is that going to simply be taking your trouble with you? I mean...you want to lose the 'social network' designation...is that going to follow you if you simply redirect to a new site?

Oh! And when do you plan on having 'short term' done by?

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I was thinking more along the lines of, if someone goes to http://www.domebo.net/forum they would get pointed to domeboards.com instead and get a little message of some sort. I know it is technically possible, but I don't know if that would bring trouble with us or not.

I don't see any reason why we couldn't have a new domain name in a week if we are able to get the technical guys together.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

Oh, one other goal inbetween short and long term...find a solution for chat so we aren't classified the wrong way.

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I think before we attempt any major transformation we should someone who knows about the big web filters and get a proper assessment of our situation.

We need to establish a realistic target classification and get a general idea what our constraints are. Imagine we relauch this place somewhere else just to face the same problems a few weeks down the road. That would pretty close to the worst possible outcome.

Most of all we probably need to find out how separation from or hiding of the chat we need but there might be other issues.

On preview: What some of you just said.

MYRNA FOR PRESIDENT

Quote:

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Originally posted by Feirefiz

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

Oh, one other goal inbetween short and long term...find a solution for chat so we aren't classified the wrong way.

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I think before we attempt any major transformation we should someone who knows about the big web filters and get a proper assessment of our situation.

We need to establish a realistic target classification and get a general idea what our constraints are. Imagine we relauch this place somewhere else just to face the same problems a few weeks down the road. That would pretty close to the worst possible outcome.

Most of all we probably need to find out how separation from or hiding of the chat we need but there might be other issues.

On preview: What some of you just said.

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Elmwood knows about the web filters, and posted earlier in the thread.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

I really appreciate what Marissa just said but I agree I am probably too controversial a figure to coordinate the whole thing. I am here though, and will help with anything that needs to be done.

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Step up to the plate woman. I think you'd kick ass at it.

What is it that Nike says?

"Sew those shoes faster kid!"

No wait.. that's not it.

Oh yeah,.. JUST DO IT!

I think by the weekend is a good goal and totally achievable.

So. Email McNutts & Jim, give them the options as you see it, give them the time line, ask them if there are any technical roadblocks, then go get that new domain.

Quote:

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Thank you so much for your input, Elmwood! I think we've pretty much come to the conclusion that we need a new domain name and IP, as you suggest. I also think we are leaning towards switching to vB. I'm not sure if we will need help with all that, but if we do, would you be willing to help us?

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I can definitely help! I won't have the time to be a moderator or full-time administrator, but I can pitch in with the transition.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Julie

I have a domain that I could stick chat on if you'd like as a temporary or permanent addition. Let me know and I'll experiment with it.

My host has message board software and whatnot for free but I haven't experimented much with it. I can if anyone's interested.

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Julie! That's awesome! Please also to be sticking around. :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by elmwood

Quote:

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Thank you so much for your input, Elmwood! I think we've pretty much come to the conclusion that we need a new domain name and IP, as you suggest. I also think we are leaning towards switching to vB. I'm not sure if we will need help with all that, but if we do, would you be willing to help us?

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I can definitely help! I won't have the time to be a moderator or full-time administrator, but I can pitch in with the transition.

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See, Sarah, even more help techie wise.

This thread is awesome. Whenever anyone asks why we want to save Domebo, point them here. You guys are incredible.

?

OK, so this is my plan. I will e-mail McNutts & Jim, and I think CRSP, as well. I will recommend that we change over to vB and use the managed host that Giraffe mentioned, as well as talk to Julie more about her kind offer to host chat. Also, give them the timeline and ask about the technical stuff as Marissa suggests. Does anyone else have any suggestions or issues with this plan?

Thanks!
Sarah

To all the raffers who have helped us, I can't thank you enough. You guys are awesome. :)

Just one more. Have Myrna draft an announcement and an email/PM to send out to all the Domeboites (? Domers?). As soon as Jim/CRSP/McNutts give you the go ahead, post 'em.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

OK, so this is my plan. I will e-mail McNutts & Jim, and I think CRSP, as well. I will recommend that we change over to vB and use the managed host that Giraffe mentioned, as well as talk to Julie more about her kind offer to host chat. Also, give them the timeline and ask about the technical stuff as Marissa suggests. Does anyone else have any suggestions or issues with this plan?

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OK, there seems to be a plan coming together :smile:

Playing devil's advocate, though, all of those things mentioned cost money. vBulletin licenses are around $100 a year, IIRC (phpBB is free), hosting costs money, as does a new domain name (which I think is being mentioned). Who is paying?

I was just e-mailing you about this, CRSP, but I guess I don't have to now. Paying is not a problem...I will take care of that myself if need be. I'm sure we will have other volunteers, as well.

Yup, as stated I have no problem contributing. Right now is about getting past the roadblocks.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I was just e-mailing you about this, CRSP, but I guess I don't have to now. Paying is not a problem...I will take care of that myself if need be. I'm sure we will have other volunteers, as well.

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I am happy to chip in.

I will PM JIm and McNutty over at GB to come over to this thread, and specifcially to my post #76.

Thanks, all!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by CRSP

Who is paying?

---

This will be the least of our problems. :smile: We just need someone to funnel the $ to.

I know Jim has been in contact with Giraffe; not sure if they discussed hosting. ezBoards is free with ads, but you guys may not want ads. I would suggest letting Jim and McNutts give their input on that before going any further with any hosting site.

Absolutely, Marissa.

Sarah that may well be the fastest commute evar.

Posting from my phone. :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Myrnalene

Quote:

---

Originally posted by CRSP

Who is paying?

---

This will be the least of our problems. :smile: We just need someone to funnel the $ to.

---

Which reminds me: I still have everything set up for taking donations from when we first started this place, if we want to collect that way.

If someone comes up with something that looks better than baldy, it'd be fine with me, but I've remained partisan to him all this time mostly because I just didn't feel like any of the other offerings looked like actual logos. I'm not particularly in love with the bald guy himself (although he is sorta adorable!) but it at least looks like something put together by a professional (which it is.) I suck at graphics, so I have no ability to offer up a replacement of my own.

PS Hola Julie, hola Marissa! ? ? ?

Julie, Marissa, Feather, Fenris and everyone else thank you. Elmwood especially, I hope we can pick your brain along with 7 and Giraffe over on GB or here.

I agree, new name, new domain are needed. We need to keep chat, but find a solution that puts it on a seperate domain/name.

I would like to see and expansion of the Mod staff.

I would like to migrate to vB and keep the mods to a min at first. Just use what is built in.

Elmwood, Fenris, Giraffe or 7, does vB chat allow for the board to be one domain and the chat another but use the same user database?

Who runs the new board? I really don't want to but I do want to stay on an help. I would gladly be part of a ownership group. I will gladly put up funds to pay for part of it.

Firefiz, we would need someone savy enough to handle your suggestions. I know I could never even think of attempting it.

I hope McNutty finds a few precious spare minutes for this thread. The timing is very bad for us but at least in this case it is for a great reason. I will say here that with Winston demoted I will push to have Pep reinstated shortly. I would also then like to take afew days and pull in a few more mods.

I agree with everything you say, Jim. It is too bad about the timing, too, but I think we have little choice.

As far as who runs the board, we aren't sure. We could start an ownership group, with a few select people to operate as a committe.

If someone wants to help me test two chat programs, that'd be great. Send me a pm.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Julie

If someone wants to help me test two chat programs, that'd be great. Send me a pm.

---

Done! :wink:

Thanks a ton, Julie!

OK, some of us have talked to what Exit? in chat, and he is willing to step up to be the new CRSP. I think it's a great plan, since he has been so involved behind the scenes the whole time. So, consider this my official nomination. :)

Not to be in any way critical of Jim, but dammit, if this is gonna be done, there have to be more than one candidates.

I nominate The Ferret (HatesFreedom) for Post-Dumbo Tyrant because--random senseless mayhem is always good.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarahfeena

OK, some of us have talked to what Exit? in chat, and he is willing to step up to be the new CRSP. I think it's a great plan, since he has been so involved behind the scenes the whole time. So, consider this my official nomination. :)

---

Seconded. And I'm eager to help in any way possible. Whether it's serving in some official capacity, chipping in all or part of the setup expenses, applying my admittedly limited technical skills to the cause, or simply continuing to contribute towards "critical mass" in the form of 15 posts a day worth of inane questions and unhelpful wisecracks, I'm here to assist.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by What Exit?

Elmwood, Fenris, Giraffe or 7, does vB chat allow for the board to be one domain and the chat another but use the same user database?

---

It's gonna' be difficult. What is possible is to limit a real time chat to members only, preferably a usergroup that people are promoted to automatically when they have made more than a certain number of posts. That way, the Web censors won't see it.

Like I said, the less visible any evidence of RT chat there is to casual visitors, the better.

vBulletin chat plugins. I'm not familiar with them, since I'm very reluctant to try out any form of RTC on my site.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdis ... ifications
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdis ... ifications

Quote:

---

Originally posted by elmwood

Quote:

---

Originally posted by What Exit?

Elmwood, Fenris, Giraffe or 7, does vB chat allow for the board to be one domain and the chat another but use the same user database?

---

It's gonna' be difficult. What is possible is to limit a real time chat to members only, preferably a usergroup that people are promoted to automatically when they have made more than a certain number of posts. That way, the Web censors won't see it.

Like I said,the less visible any evidence of RT chat is to casual visitors, the better.

vBulletin chat plugins. I'm not familiar with them, since I'm very reluctant to try them out any form of RTC on my site.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdis ... ifications
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdis ... ifications

---

This sounds like a good plan. Cool. I am checking your links out.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by elmwood

It's gonna' be difficult. What is possible is to limit a real time chat to members only, preferably a usergroup that people are promoted to automatically when they have made more than a certain number of posts. That way, the Web censors won't see it.

---

This is good.

Or you could just kill chat entirely. Ain't gonna happen, I know. But chat is why I don't come here much anymore. It's sucked the life out of the board, much like any other parasite.

At least half and probably more of the ideas in this thread were brainstormed in chat first. Conversation in chat inspired Sarah to make this thread. Chat and what goes on there might save our bacon.

So, you're right. Not gonna happen.

Well measure response Myrnalene, thank you.

She is right Silenus, but maybe we can jump start the board part of the board with some new enthusiasm and keep it going.

BTW: It was not chat, it was instead a whole slew of things. Elections and polls to death, chat, drama, catering to socks* at first, no clear moderations at first, a drifting off of the founder, the fact that a large part of those that came over here were "malcontents from the dope" and oddly did not all get along, drama, drama, drama, and a lot of little miscues.

* not the fact that we don't hunt socks, that was a solid idea, we were actually catering to those using socks to cause drama or acting as concern trolls. Stupidity.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by silenus

Or you could just kill chat entirely. Ain't gonna happen, I know. But chat is why I don't come here much anymore. It's sucked the life out of the board, much like any other parasite.

---

Only in the SDMB zone would people's reaction to seeing the one single useful, active, vibrant part of a community be to call for it to be gotten rid of.

Another possibility which might not be popular to anyone would be to abandon the message board format and go with a pure social networking site, using something like Pligg.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Julie

Another possibility which might not be popular to anyone would be to abandon the message board format and go with a pure social networking site, using something like Pligg.

---

?

If we end up with a new format based on being the "Dome," may I suggest our Thunderdome/Pit be named "Domestic Abuse"? It's a reasonable pun and can be easily turned into a verb: "Poster, get into DA, I'm going to abuse you."

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Myrnalene

Quote:

---

Originally posted by elmwood

It's gonna' be difficult. What is possible is to limit a real time chat to members only, preferably a usergroup that people are promoted to automatically when they have made more than a certain number of posts. That way, the Web censors won't see it.

---

This is good.

---

I like this idea. Chat is nice(it rocks on game day on the Canes board), and I'd hate to lose it. I'd be willing to pony up $ to help keep this thing running, too.

Carol, :D

What Exit?, if you do not want to be involved in the administration, do not feel as if you need to stay. I would love to see you at the forefront as a leader but if you want to return to simply being a poster, I can survive that. And I would rather have you rejoin our civilian ranks and remain a happy and positive poster for many many months (dare I say years?) than to have you stressed to your breaking point until you feel you have to leave for good. We can find someone else to hoist the banner if we need to.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Inner Stickler

What Exit?, if you do not want to be involved in the administration, do not feel as if you need to stay. I would love to see you at the forefront as a leader but if you want to return to simply being a poster, I can survive that. And I would rather have you rejoin our civilian ranks and remain a happy and positive poster for many many months (dare I say years?) than to have you stressed to your breaking point until you feel you have to leave for good. We can find someone else to hoist the banner if we need to.

---

Look, it's either What Exit?, or the horror of Myrncalibur. Choose wisely, dumbo.

But seriously. There are other people here who are also good-natured and calm in temperament who could do this. I think Jim is a swell guy and I think he has some real talents at wrangling people that make for a good leader. But it's not worth stressing out one of our favorite users until he ends up having to leave us in order to spend more time with his ulcers. I agree with Inner Stickler 100% that I would rather not have Jim step up if he is reluctant. There's no reason he can't stay around and just arrange the PHP and massage the Javascript and molest the stylesheets, or even step down from that stuff too, if that's what it takes for him to post happily.

I think we need to talk about what the role of the leader should be. Here is my opinion on what the leader should do:

First, the leader needs to love the board and its members (not having this is the root cause of most of the phail at the SDMB) and be able to make a committment to this place - in time, blood, sweat, toil and tears. (Ok hopefully not so much of those last four).
The leader should appoint all new mods and admins* and should be the one to make the final call if a mod or admin needs to be removed.
The leader should not be involved in the day to day moderation - unless needed to act as a tiebreaker in the event of a stalemate between mods or if there is an emergency (tubgirl attacks, credible death threats, etc) and there is no one else available.
The leader should, with an ear to the community, set the standards and basic philosophy of the board and make sure that all the moderators understand what that is and can mod to that standard.
The leader should be able to identify issues that need to be addressed (for example, the banner) and figure out a way to make it get done - even if it means delegating a team of "civilians" who are willing and and able to help.
The leader needs to have an overall plan for this board and use the resources we have to guide us there.
In the event of a crises - the leader needs to be able to mediate between factions, act as a reassuring presence to the board at large, and always be there to act in the best interest of the community no matter what it takes.
The leader needs to work to ensure that the board is healthy and is functioning properly - so that the leader can then step back and let it run, keeping an eye on things and jumping in only when needed.
The leader needs to have an iron glove and a velvet fist.


*I mean tech guys, here - a role that I think should be separate from mod.

Now, as for Jim - I have no doubt he can act as I have outlined above, if that is what he wants to do.

One thing, though - if it's gonna be Jim, I think he needs to stop moderating ASAP. I have been the worst about running to him if there is a problem, because he is always here and I know he will get things done. But from here on out, if there is something that needs to be modded, we should PM the Global Moderators and let that team handle it. And Jim needs to let them handle it. No one can be the leader, the chief admin and a mod. If it stays that way, in a few days he will be just as stressed out as ever and we can't have that.

I think that going to a hosted web server is as big a priority as a domain change. Two weeks ago when M[sup:1aei1u7y]c[/sup:1aei1u7y] Nutty and the three headed hydra where locked in mortal combat, I was afraid that the Nuts was going to pull the plug. M[sup:1aei1u7y]c[/sup:1aei1u7y] Nutty you are a better man than me for I'm not sure that I wouldn't have taken my ball and gone home*.

We also need to set up the administration so that no one person leaving for any reason can bring us to our knees.

Zuul as soon as funds are needed, or even before, please repost the contact info so that members can send to help. We might want to set a limit to how much a member can send so that a troll ( think SBSO ) wont think he can buy influence.




*This post is not meant to imply that any side was right or wrong in that train wreak.

Upon a night's reflection, (no I did not stay awake thinking about this), here's the raw deal.

1) I am honored so many trust me enough to suggest me.

2) I am panicked about the move to a new server/domain/IP/software all in short order and fearful we I know have enough tech knowledge in the right areas.

3) I am fine with being officially the chief admin, nice title actually, but not as comfortable as the one responsible for all the server tech at all. My problems all along were not wanting to step on other's toes and especially not overstep my position as it was CRSP's board.

4) We will need to raise a little money to do this right, I honestly do not know what the legalities of this are. 5) This makes me more nervous than the tech stuff.

5) I've asked McNutty and CIAS (CatInASuit) if they plan to stick around, I think CIAS does, but I do not know that, I hope McNutty does but he was already posting less even before the enormous new job of being a first time dad.

I think being the final decision maker will be simpler than the tech part. I think some of the other great candidates for the job as board owner or whatever we call are posters like Sarah who would probably be even more worried about the tech stuff. Myrna is surely the most passionate about this place. Either of them though would be as good or better choices. In the end, whoever takes over needs to support and respond to the mod team in a timely fashion.

So I guess this is the deal, I need some answers first from those with technical knowledge to see where we can go from here successfully. The tech details can and will sort themselves out, I just am nervous about but that is just something we can’t rush. The finance thing is probably easier than I fear, but I only know about Non-Profits that need to jump through some hoops for the IRS and fill out tax forms. This might not be an IRS issue.

Half the stress was not being sure when I should act and feeling like no one was making decisions. I think the second part is already changing.

All that said, if you want me, I will do it.



ETA: CIAS just PM’d me, he is going to stick it out. This is good news.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by What Exit?

All that said, if you want me, I will do it.

---

Ok, great. You know I have been a big supporter of you doing this, but I also know that you are taking on this role a little reluctantly, so thank you for agreeing to step in. It doesn't have to be permanent either. The more I think about it the more I think that the group ownership suggestion is probably the best way to go for long term board stability. That way the board is an entity unto itself and we don't need to rely on a single person at the top.

I can start looking into how that might work today and if we get a name settled on I can go register with godaddy and start getting that set up.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck with this, What Exit.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by NAF1138

I can start looking into how that might work today and if we get a name settled on I can go register with godaddy and start getting that set up.

---

Some hosting sites will give a deal on domains. Mine (Hostmonster) gives a free domain with a hosting package.

Don't be swayed by any offers of a free domain; often, the domain name will often be owned by the hosting company, and if you want to move the site, you can't take the name with you. Domain name registration is cheap, anyhow. If you can't afford $15 a year for a dot-com through GoDaddy, you shouldn't be running a message board.

Also, I'd look at a VPS (virtual private server) rather than shared hosting. For a few more bucks a month, you'll end up with a hosting package that functions more like a freestanding server than an account that happens to be on a server shared with tens or hundreds of other Web sites. Although traffic at DoMeBo has fallen, it's still in the range that would put a lot of stress on a conventional shared hosting account. If traffic rises to just half the level of Giraffe Boards, a shared hosting account will make the SDMB on its worst mornings seem fast in comparison, and the host might even give you the boot. One of the last things DoMeBo needs is more snark fodder because of poor performance, and the drama of the resulting complaints. FWW, Giraffe Board has a dedicated server.

Really ... go with a VPS. I can't emphasize this enough. Shared hosting for a moderately busy message board is the epitome of weak sauce. I moved to Liquid Web a few months ago, and can't say enough good things about it so far; reliable server, fast, and responsive US-based technical support. The one shortcoming; the servers are based in Lansing, Michigan, which is off the beaten path of the Internet's fat pipes; ping times are a wee bit higher than the usual Dallas, Atlanta and NoVa-based data centers. There's other good VPS hosts; check out the forums at webhostingtalk.com.

Do any of you prospective admins ever check out the web hosting message boards like webhostingtalk.com? Ever check out the vBulletin support board at vbulletin.com? Ever see the many message boards for message board administrators? (I like theadminzone.com, but there's several similar sites that are just as good.) There's a lot more that goes into running a message board than you might think, so get out there and educate yourself!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by What Exit?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by elmwood

[...]

It's gonna' be difficult. What is possible is to limit a real time chat to members only, preferably a usergroup that people are promoted to automatically when they have made more than a certain number of posts. That way, the Web censors won't see it.

Like I said,the less visible any evidence of RT chat is to casual visitors, the better.

vBulletin chat plugins. I'm not familiar with them, since I'm very reluctant to try them out any form of RTC on my site.

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdis ... ifications
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/forumdis ... ifications

---

This sounds like a good plan. Cool. I am checking your links out.

---

A really stupid question just occured to me.
How well can you hide the mere existence of something in vBulletin?
Surely the web filter classifiers know very well where to look in the standard software products. If a bot receives a message along the lines of "You don't have permission to access chat.php ..." that doesn't help us much.

Funding: yeah, hosting and bulletin costs money. I. going to make a recommendation that y'all will probably hate.

Advertising.

Hey, stop throwing those rotten vegetables at me! Instead of Google Ads, look at selling banner space to other members, so they can advertise their online businesses, blogs, and so on. I think members on the SDMB have been begging for something like this, but TPTB have been unresponsive.

There's various vBulletin plugins for banner ads that track clicks, rotation, and so on.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Feirefiz

How well can you hide the mere existence of something in vBulletin?

---

Plugins can often be configured so their function and visibility is only available to certain user groups.

On my site (http://www.cyburbia.org/forums), visitors see a different header message than logged-in users. Visitors see a message encouraging them to register. Members see a header with links to site news. This took a little bit of hacking in the header template field. An excerpt from the header template field:

Code:

---




<if condition="!$bbuserinfo[userid]"> 
 

(message displayed to visitors)

 
</if>



<if condition="$bbuserinfo[userid]"> 


(message displayed to users logged in)

 
</if>

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by elmwood

Really ... go with a VPS. I can't emphasize this enough. Shared hosting for a moderately busy message board is the epitome of weak sauce. I moved to Liquid Web a few months ago, and can't say enough good things about it so far; reliable server, fast, and responsive US-based technical support. The one shortcoming; the servers are based in Lansing, Michigan, which is off the beaten path of the Internet's fat pipes; ping times are a wee bit higher than the usual Dallas, Atlanta and NoVa-based data centers. There's other good VPS hosts; check out the forums at webhostingtalk.com.

---

I think we are on VPS currently, but I know that McNutty doesn't want to be the permanent host. I will add VPS hosting to my list of things to check into. It seems a lot easier than setting up an LLC for board ownership so I will probably get some decent answers faster. :smile:

Quote:

---

Do any of you prospective admins ever check out the web hosting message boards like webhostingtalk.com? Ever check out the vBulletin support board at vbulletin.com? Ever see the many message boards for message board administrators? (I like theadminzone.com, but there's several similar sites that are just as good.) There's a lot more that goes into running a message board than you might think, so get out there and educate yourself!

---

I haven't yet. In fact I didn't even know most of them existed. I am not really planning on becoming admin, but I think I should have the time to get myself educated so I at least know what we are talking about when the time comes. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by elmwood

Don't be swayed by any offers of a free domain; often, the domain name will often be owned by the hosting company, and if you want to move the site, you can't take the name with you. Domain name registration is cheap, anyhow. If you can't afford $15 a year for a dot-com through GoDaddy, you shouldn't be running a message board.

Also, I'd look at a VPS (virtual private server) rather than shared hosting. For a few more bucks a month, you'll end up with a hosting package that functions more like a freestanding server than an account that happens to be on a server shared with tens or hundreds of other Web sites. Although traffic at DoMeBo has fallen, it's still in the range that would put a lot of stress on a conventional shared hosting account. If traffic rises to just half the level of Giraffe Boards, a shared hosting account will make the SDMB on its worst mornings seem fast in comparison, and the host might even give you the boot. One of the last things DoMeBo needs is more snark fodder because of poor performance, and the drama of the resulting complaints. FWW, Giraffe Board has a dedicated server.

---

You don't necessarily need a VPS, but you absolutely can not use a typical shared web host. They're cheap, they offer amazing amounts of storage and bandwidth, but they'll put you on a server with five million other websites and performance will be awful (for the three days before they kick you off). I initially went with URLjet.com based on recommendations on the vBulletin hosting forum. It was something like $15-$20/month (I paid for six months up front, which gets you a discount) and they'll install everything for you, you just have to buy a vB license. They run regular backups, they'll install upgrades, and they have really good support. If you want to host somewhere else, it's easy to transfer your domain and files. They may even migrate the database from McNutty's server for you.

I'm fairly certain they'll give you more than enough cpu and memory to run well past GB's current levels -- we were already up to almost 1000 posts/day when we moved to a VPS on 7's server and performance was still excellent.

You may need a VPS at some point, but right now I think it's probably overkill.

Also, while I'm all up in your business, a few other comments:

1. Don't make a rule that the "leader" shouldn't moderate. They certainly shouldn't be the primary moderator, but they should have the same power as any other mod to move posts, chastise the wicked and ban Fenris.

2. For fuck's sake, don't set up a board of trustees to run a small message board. You're talking about a couple hundred bucks startup money for a vB license, and then maybe a couple hundred bucks a year for hosting. Just have someone collect it. If the IRS kicks down your door, send them to me so I can punch them in the nuts for wasting my taxes auditing some message board instead of major tax cheats like Fenris.

3. You'll want at least two people with admin permissions, who can log onto the hosting control panel, the vB admin panel, etc. and help people with account issues, change usernames, upload new smilies. I recommend Fenris. He has admin experience (in his mind).

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Giraffe

Also, while I'm all up in your business, a few other comments:

1. Don't make a rule that the "leader" shouldn't moderate. They certainly shouldn't be the primary moderator, but they should have the same power as any other mod to move posts, chastise the wicked and ban Fenris.

2. For fuck's sake, don't set up a board of trustees to run a small message board. You're talking about a couple hundred bucks startup money for a vB license, and then maybe a couple hundred bucks a year for hosting. Just have someone collect it. If the IRS kicks down your door, send them to me so I can punch them in the nuts for wasting my taxes auditing some message board instead of major tax cheats like Fenris.

3. You'll want at least two people with admin permissions, who can log onto the hosting control panel, the vB admin panel, etc. and help people with account issues, change usernames, upload new smilies. I recommend Fenris. He has admin experience (in his mind).

---

All good points. #2 especially. I started looking into this and it's just going to be a headache.

I would avoid getting a VPS right now. This is what you're on at the moment and McNuts is the only guy you have to admin the nuts and bolts of it.

Think of it this way: What would you guys do if tomorrow SQL wouldn't start on the VPS? What if Apache stopped processing all PHP pages? Would you know how to fix that?

If I were you I'd move to a managed platform (like URLjet) where your only concern would be maintaining the messageboard. Let the admin at URLjet sweat about keeping SQL running.

I think Seven's right...why take on more headaches than we need?

URLJET is sounding good. I am still waiting to here back from CRSP and McNutty. But it looks like CRSP is ready to hand off the keys. I hope he decides to stay around as a tech or a mod when time allows. He would have to be considered the equivalent of a plank holder I think.

I am waiting for an Email from vBulletin on their chat plug-ins and if they can be on a separate domain but use the same DB for users and etc.

I think besides some new mods, we will also have a few chat only mods to boot the obnoxious or the fighters until they cool off. Something to mull over, I won't be hasty about it.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Seven

I would avoid getting a VPS right now. This is what you're on at the moment and McNuts is the only guy you have to admin the nuts and bolts of it.

Think of it this way: What would you guys do if tomorrow SQL wouldn't start on the VPS? What if Apache stopped processing all PHP pages? Would you know how to fix that?

If I were you I'd move to a managed platform (like URLjet) where your only concern would be maintaining the messageboard. Let the admin at URLjet sweat about keeping SQL running.

---

With a supported VPS, you don't have to worry about it. Cheap VPS packages are usually unsupported; the good ones cost a few bucks more, but offer the same level of support as a shared hosting account.

Besides, you learn a lot running a message board, including some basic server-related Linux commands. Apache go down? service httpd restart. If there's more problems, the issue is probably in a httpd configuration file or .htaccess. MySQL an issue? Rebooting usually fixes it.

Also, many shared hosting packages don't offer SSH (secure shell) access. It's a must, IMHO.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by elmwood

service httpd restart

---

moar liek sudo /etc/init.d/httpd restart

debian supremacy

Quote:

---

Originally posted by elmwood

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Seven

I would avoid getting a VPS right now. This is what you're on at the moment and McNuts is the only guy you have to admin the nuts and bolts of it.

Think of it this way: What would you guys do if tomorrow SQL wouldn't start on the VPS? What if Apache stopped processing all PHP pages? Would you know how to fix that?

If I were you I'd move to a managed platform (like URLjet) where your only concern would be maintaining the messageboard. Let the admin at URLjet sweat about keeping SQL running.

---

With a supported VPS, you don't have to worry about it. Cheap VPS packages are usually unsupported; the good ones cost a few bucks more, but offer the same level of support as a shared hosting account.

Besides, you learn a lot running a message board, including some basic server-related Linux commands. Apache go down? service httpd restart. If there's more problems, the issue is probably in a httpd configuration file or .htaccess. MySQL an issue? Rebooting usually fixes it.

Also, many shared hosting packages don't offer SSH (secure shell) access. It's a must, IMHO.

---

Any idea of the cost per month or per year?


Any interest at all at being a tech admin here? You don’t even need to deal with chat, the mod staff will handle that.

nm

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Heffalump and Roo

nm

---

Hey Roo, glad to see you.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by What Exit?

Any interest at all at being a tech admin here? You don’t even need to deal with chat, the mod staff will handle that.

---

Sure, I'll help y'all out for a while. Can't do it full-time, but I can at least get you started. :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by elmwood

Quote:

---

Originally posted by What Exit?

Any interest at all at being a tech admin here? You don’t even need to deal with chat, the mod staff will handle that.

---

Sure, I'll help y'all out for a while. Can't do it full-time, but I can at least get you started. :)

---

Way cool. Tomorrow I am going to look into a host and vB license.

You know what we also need a chat domain name probably. Pachychat? Elephant Talk? Chatterdome?

I was thinking we would do something like chat.pachydome.com, or Pachydome.com/chat and pachydome.com/forums. I can talk to the folks at godaddy and see what our options are in that respect. Do we have to keep them on seperate domains for saftey? I thought we just had to keep chat off the front page and non accessable by non members.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Way cool. Tomorrow I am going to look into a host and vB license.

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Cool! If you need some $$ for the license, let me know, and I'll Paypal you a little bit of scratch. Not $1000, but, like, $30 or so.

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Way cool. Tomorrow I am going to look into a host and vB license.

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Cool! If you need some $$ for the license, let me know, and I'll Paypal you a little bit of scratch. Not $1000, but, like, $30 or so.

Looks like elmwood's down for $60.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

You know what we also need a chat domain name probably. Pachychat? Elephant Talk? Chatterdome?

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Trunk Line?

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Originally posted by Scissorjack

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

You know what we also need a chat domain name probably. Pachychat? Elephant Talk? Chatterdome?

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Trunk Line?

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Trunk Line is genus. It doesn't have the word chat in it. If the bots can't map it. And nonmembers can't see it. It should not trip any filters.

It's cute and catchy and ties in with the Elephant theam. And sounds techy enough to be off limits to filter sites without raising eyebrows.

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Originally posted by Scissorjack

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

You know what we also need a chat domain name probably. Pachychat? Elephant Talk? Chatterdome?

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Trunk Line?

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That is really pretty damn awesome.

Trunk Line is magnificent.

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Originally posted by Scissorjack

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

You know what we also need a chat domain name probably. Pachychat? Elephant Talk? Chatterdome?

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Trunk Line?

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That would work.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

Looks like elmwood's down for $60.

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Try $30 (PPed) and some temporary server space. :)

Hey all,

I normally hang out at Giraffe and have been following the domebo thread over there. I dropped by to wish you luck and, well, I'm good for ten bucks if it'll help you guys out with the license

:)

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Originally posted by Lazlo

Hey all,

I normally hang out at Giraffe and have been following the domebo thread over there. I dropped by to wish you luck and, well, I'm good for ten bucks if it'll help you guys out with the license

:)

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Thank you! It's appreciated.