Regarding the potential banning of Misanthropic Contrarian

Triggered by this hive thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3510

Let me explain something that has, apparently, eluded much of the moderatorial staff. I will try to use short enough words that you can understand this, although in truth I'm not sure any explanation will suffice for those to whom this is not already obvious.

You cannot keep anyone out of here. If MC chose, he could create socks. He could use free anonymous proxy services to evade IP bans. He could easily post illegal material here that way. Even failing that, he could post links here at Stormfront and NAMBLA and anywhere else without being able to log in here at all. (Not that I imagine they would bother with us anyway.) At any rate, that wouldn't really be necessary, as your toolbox does not contain any mechanism to stop him from posting if he wants to.

Up until this point, my understanding was that Domebo policy was going to be to stick problem users in 101 forever rather than banning. If the administrators have changed their mind on this, it doesn't make much difference to me. But please do not use some imagined threat of posting illegal images or inviting bad guys to join us as your rationale, since he can do those things just as easily even if he is banned.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.

I agree, the idea that banning him would prevent him from carrying out any of his threats does not bear scrutiny. Not to mention he has been here for months and had done nothing more than post naughty words. I don't even think he swore the couple of times he was in chat. He's yanking your chains.

There has been a ongoing issue with some of the mods wanting to ban MC because they find him distasteful, or because "the joke isn't funny anymore". That is not a legitimate reason for banning IMO. If you are sick of him, just stay out of the small area of the board that he posts in.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

There has been a ongoing issue with some of the mods wanting to ban MC because they find him distasteful, or because "the joke isn't funny anymore". If you are sick of him, just stay out of the small area of the board that he posts in.

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It's sort of the mod's job to not ignore the stuff he posts in these forums and chat. I really don't care to vote yea/nay for his banning, but you're asking them not to do their job. A job that the board democratically voted them into their positions to do.

The argument you seem to be making is that banning him won't stop him. And if the mods don't like him then they should just ignore him. I say, if you, yourself, thinks it's too hard to control what he posts here, then you can ignore him and just let the mods do their job. By Exy's opinion it seems like more of a hassle than anything else... why does he care though? It's not his job.

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Originally posted by beebs

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

There has been a ongoing issue with some of the mods wanting to ban MC because they find him distasteful, or because "the joke isn't funny anymore". If you are sick of him, just stay out of the small area of the board that he posts in.

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It's sort of the mod's job to not ignore the stuff he posts in these forums and chat. I really don't care to vote yea/nay for his banning, but you're asking them not to do their job. A job that the board democratically voted them into their positions to do.

The argument you seem to be making is that banning him won't stop him. And if the mods don't like him then they should just ignore him. I say, if you, yourself, thinks it's too hard to control what he posts here, then you can ignore him and just let the mods do their job. By Exy's opinion it seems like more of a hassle than anything else... why does he care though? It's not his job.

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It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

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Originally posted by AllWalker

It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if someone is threatening to do something which could potentially cause the board (and, ahem, it's host(s)) some legal trouble, such as posting child porn, they should be booted un-fucking-ceremoniously. I am pretty confident that there will be no actual legal problems if someone decides to post some child porn using my server, but I'm also pretty sure it's got a potential for being a serious pain in the ass before it is proven not to be a real legal problem. Given the choice, I say ban the fucker. I don't give a shit if this is "why the board was established." I love the idea of being democratic and open and all that until it becomes a crippling downfall that prevents us from just seeing what's up and dealing with it. The guy isn't contributing anything and has hinted at a desire to cause trouble. Fuck him.

For a long time I was in the leave him be camp. Thinking that if we give him a place to vent and spew he wont feel the need to post with socks any more than he already has. Especially if his socks are all quickly baned or locked away.

But now that he has threatened to post illegal child porn we must ban him. Even if we can't stop him from doing it anyway. At least we can show that we tried to stop him. And did not knowingly provide a place for him to distribute child porn.

I wish I had confidence that our governments would not go after CRSP or McNutty, for the actions of an angry little man, but I don't.

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Originally posted by Excalibur

Triggered by this hive thread: http://domebo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3510

Let me explain something that has, apparently, eluded much of the moderatorial staff. I will try to use short enough words that you can understand this, although in truth I'm not sure any explanation will suffice for those to whom this is not already obvious.

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Oooh! Condescension! What a novel approach to criticisng the Mod Staff! Utterly original!

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You cannot keep anyone out of here. If MC chose, he could create socks. He could use free anonymous proxy services to evade IP bans. He could easily post illegal material here that way. Even failing that, he could post links here at Stormfront and NAMBLA and anywhere else without being able to log in here at all. (Not that I imagine they would bother with us anyway.) At any rate, that wouldn't really be necessary, as your toolbox does not contain any mechanism to stop him from posting if he wants to.

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Our toolbox does contain a 'mechanism' to stop trolls and losers from posting here - the Moderator Staff. Despite the fact that in the next sentence you're going to interpret board policy to make it appear we are not observing our own stated policy, it is at the discretion of the Mod Staff to banish or ban. Also, we are not obligated to put every case to a vote.

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Up until this point, my understanding was that Domebo policy was going to be to stick problem users in 101 forever rather than banning. If the administrators have changed their mind on this, it doesn't make much difference to me. But please do not use some imagined threat of posting illegal images or inviting bad guys to join us as your rationale, since he can do those things just as easily even if he is banned.

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Your understanding was incorrect. MC was a troll, and I used my discretion to ban him. I don't need to make excuses or trump up some real or imagined threat.

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Thank you for your attention in this matter.

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You're welcome.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

I agree, the idea that banning him would prevent him from carrying out any of his threats does not bear scrutiny. Not to mention he has been here for months and had done nothing more than post naughty words. I don't even think he swore the couple of times he was in chat. He's yanking your chains.

There has been a ongoing issue with some of the mods wanting to ban MC because they find him distasteful, or because "the joke isn't funny anymore". That is not a legitimate reason for banning IMO. If you are sick of him, just stay out of the small area of the board that he posts in.

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Myrna, MC has been banned. Your agreement with Exy is irrelevent, as is your argument against MC's banning. Would you have us put every troll banning to a vote? I look forward to reading your thoughts on this over at the SnakrPit...

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Originally posted by AllWalker

It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

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Incorrect. This is a general interest message board, not the Wild Wild West. Do you even know who you are defending here? Have you read his thread in Room 101? I can only think of a couple reasons why anyone would want to keep MC around at this point. And 'Freedom of Speech' is certainly not one of them.

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Originally posted by McNutty

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Originally posted by AllWalker

It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if someone is threatening to do something which could potentially cause the board (and, ahem, it's host(s)) some legal trouble, such as posting child porn, they should be booted un-fucking-ceremoniously. I am pretty confident that there will be no actual legal problems if someone decides to post some child porn using my server, but I'm also pretty sure it's got a potential for being a serious pain in the ass before it is proven not to be a real legal problem. Given the choice, I say ban the fucker. I don't give a shit if this is "why the board was established." I love the idea of being democratic and open and all that until it becomes a crippling downfall that prevents us from just seeing what's up and dealing with it. The guy isn't contributing anything and has hinted at a desire to cause trouble. Fuck him.

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Thanks for getting my back, McNutty. Let's just hope the rest of the Mod Staff doesn't overrule this decision and leave my ass hanging out in the breeze.

Ok, so let me get this straight. The other mods (McNutty is not a mod) voted to keep him in Room 101 but since you want him gone, he's gone? And if the other mods retain their opinions they are leaving your ass out in the breeze? The only person who has leave to act like that is CRSP, and he never does it. So I will ask you as nicely as I can, who the fuck do you think you are?

Winston, your "wild card" "loose cannon" act has gotten old as shit. You are the only mod who has this urge to cultivate this crazy lone wolf image. You are the only mod who is routinely rude to the membership. Considering you barely squeaked into last place (thanks to the nonnies who thought it would be a laff to put you over the top) the idea that you have this right to make unilateral decisions (which no one else does) is fucking laughable. Your ego is staggering.

I think MC did go too far this time. I don't generally read his missives at this point and Winston did not link or quote the specific language that resulted in the ban to protect the board. I have not seen an argument yet to vote to overturn Winston's decision and I think his only problem the other day was assuming we knew what he was talking about. So far in this thread, he, McNutty and Glazer have offered up arguments that sway me that MC needs to go.

Also for what it is worth, starting the argument against the banning of MC as Excalibur did with this:

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Originally posted by Excalibur

Let me explain something that has, apparently, eluded much of the moderatorial staff. I will try to use short enough words that you can understand this, although in truth I'm not sure any explanation will suffice for those to whom this is not already obvious.

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Is not too likely to be received well by the mod staff when not one of us had yet voted one way or the other on MC's banning. If he read the Hive thread and I assume he did, he'll know that the votes were for banning if MC chatted again. I was the only one that came in later to post again to offer lukewarm support for banning. So insult away at Winston and I, but consider an apology to the other 4 at least.

Now I will go back to troubleshooting the Chat code to lock the 101 group out of chat. This hole as led to the current issues. CIAS and I are both working on it when we can.

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Originally posted by Winston Smith

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Originally posted by AllWalker

It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

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Incorrect. This is a general interest message board, not the Wild Wild West. Do you even know who you are defending here? Have you read his thread in Room 101? I can only think of a couple reasons why anyone would want to keep MC around at this point. And 'Freedom of Speech' is certainly not one of them.

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I've read his stuff, sure. It's trolling in it's purest form. But I'm not defending him - throw him in 101 and leave him to rot for all I care. I am, actually, interested in keeping him around in the interests of free speech, and I don't see why such an idea is inconceivable. Since he threatened to post childporn then maybe he should be banned, but that should be the reason - not just some excuse for the mods to lock out a troll.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Now I will go back to troubleshooting the Chat code to lock the 101 group out of chat. This hole as led to the current issues. CIAS and I are both working on it when we can.

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Thank you, we do appreciate it. The tighter 101 is, the stronger my believe that quarantining trolls is better than banning them, no matter how obnoxious they are.

What Exit? of course it's perfectly ok for you to change your mind and I respect that. If you all agree he should go, he should go.

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Is not too likely to be received well by the mod staff when not one of us had yet voted one way or the other on MC's banning. If he read the Hive thread and I assume he did, he'll know that the votes were for banning if MC chatted again. I was the only one that came in later to post again to offer lukewarm support for banning. So insult away at Winston and I, but consider an apology to the other 4 at least.

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Jim, this doesn't make any sense. In one sentence you say there was no vote and then in the next sentence you say there was. My reading on the situation was what you say in your second sentence, that the vote was to ban him if he posted in chat. Has he posted in chat since that vote was taken?

And if your first sentence is true and there was not a vote, then why the fuck did Winston take it upon himself to ban him? I know his response will be along the lines of hey man, I don't need no one's permission! But what do you think, Jim?

Room 101 no longer allows images to be posted. So I have removed the first of two holes to prevent MC from posting something that will get CRSP or McNutty in trouble.

This to me was the reason I found the argument to ban MC compelling and it has not been refuted, CIAS and I might be close to fixing chat.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Room 101 no longer allows images to be posted. So I have removed the first of two holes to prevent MC from posting something that will get CRSP or McNutty in trouble.

This to me was the reason I found the argument to ban MC compelling and it has not been refuted, CIAS and I might be close to fixing chat.

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So, if this happens there would be no reason MC would be a threat, right? Unless we really think Stormfront and NAMBLA give the teeny tiniest of fucks about this board?

Please address my question on whether it is OK for one mod to ban someone even if most of the other mods have voted against the banning.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Room 101 no longer allows images to be posted. So I have removed the first of two holes to prevent MC from posting something that will get CRSP or McNutty in trouble.

This to me was the reason I found the argument to ban MC compelling and it has not been refuted, CIAS and I might be close to fixing chat.

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So, if this happens there would be no reason MC would be a threat, right? Unless we really think Stormfront and NAMBLA give the teeny tiniest of fucks about this board?

Please address my question on whether it is OK for one mod to ban someone even if most of the other mods have voted against the banning.

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If we fix chat, I see no reason to ban the shit smearing troll known as MC no matter how worthless his ravings appear to most people on the board. Did I mention that the chat code stinks?

As to Winston's actions, he took the right steps but failed to explain why he took them. If the board is in actual trouble we cannot wait to discuss it. We should act. I did not hesitate during the various attacks on the board for things that threaten the board. The other mods should not either.

A banning can always be changed later.

[quote=What Exit?]

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

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Originally posted by "What Exit?":z5qmceri

Room 101 no longer allows images to be posted. So I have removed the first of two holes to prevent MC from posting something that will get CRSP or McNutty in trouble.

This to me was the reason I found the argument to ban MC compelling and it has not been refuted, CIAS and I might be close to fixing chat.

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So, if this happens there would be no reason MC would be a threat, right? Unless we really think Stormfront and NAMBLA give the teeny tiniest of fucks about this board?

Please address my question on whether it is OK for one mod to ban someone even if most of the other mods have voted against the banning.

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If we fix chat, I see no reason to ban the shit smearing troll known as MC no matter how worthless his ravings appear to most people on the board. Did I mention that the chat code stinks?

As to Winston's actions, he took the right steps but failed to explain why he took them. If the board is in actual trouble we cannot wait to discuss it. We should act. I did not hesitate during the various attacks on the board for things that threaten the board. The other mods should not either.

A banning can always be changed later.[/quote:z5qmceri]

I agree as long as he can't post pics let him stay. Having a place to vent is probably therapeutic for him. And he does provide some small amusement for a few posters. Although it is hard to keep cleaning his spittle off the backside of my screen. :lol:

Not every country in the world sees Free Speech as an absolute. There are many countries that don't allow hate speech under the umbrella of free speech (I live in one of them, and I think the UKers do, too). I have no problem with toasting some ass who has no respect for anyone else, adds nothing to the site, and is now making threats that have potential to have real life implications for people here (who, I might add, have volunteered far above and beyond what could be expected of people).

I believe in free speech 100%, I just don't agree that a tiny little message board has to provide the platform for it.

But that's not my real issue with MC at this point. My issue is with the argument that those who don't like him should just avoid those few threads he can participate in. The thing is, it's not just that it's a few threads, it's that it's an entire forum. And while I get that the point of locking up the trolls is supposed to provide amusement, it's not at this point, except for a tiny minority of posters. Even if other, more interesting trolls get locked up in there, their threads are going to be taken over the same way.

And while I realize that MC could still come back, he could do that now, anyway...what's stopping him from creating those sock accounts right now? Whether he's locked up in 101 or not, whether he's banned or not, makes no difference.

So my question is, what IS the point of 101? If we are that committed to free speech, then fine, leave him in there. But if we're doing it for our own amusement, is anyone still amused at this point?

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I believe in free speech 100%, I just don't agree that a tiny little message board has to provide the platform for it.

But that's not my real issue with MC at this point. My issue is with the argument that those who don't like him should just avoid those few threads he can participate in. The thing is, it's not just that it's a few threads, it's that it's an entire forum. And while I get that the point of locking up the trolls is supposed to provide amusement, it's not at this point, except for a tiny minority of posters. Even if other, more interesting trolls get locked up in there, their threads are going to be taken over the same way.

And while I realize that MC could still come back, he could do that now, anyway...what's stopping him from creating those sock accounts right now? Whether he's locked up in 101 or not, whether he's banned or not, makes no difference.

So my question is, what IS the point of 101? If we are that committed to free speech, then fine, leave him in there. But if we're doing it for our own amusement, is anyone still amused at this point?

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Sarah, apparently some are still amused by him. By the way if it made things better, we could make a Forum for MC.

I am not amused by him and mostly ignore him, but as long as multiple posters enjoy exchanges with him, I would honestly like to make it so he can have his place to rant and rave.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

Ok, so let me get this straight. The other mods (McNutty is not a mod) voted to keep him in Room 101 but since you want him gone, he's gone? And if the other mods retain their opinions they are leaving your ass out in the breeze? The only person who has leave to act like that is CRSP, and he never does it. So I will ask you as nicely as I can, who the fuck do you think you are?

Winston, your "wild card" "loose cannon" act has gotten old as shit. You are the only mod who has this urge to cultivate this crazy lone wolf image. You are the only mod who is routinely rude to the membership. Considering you barely squeaked into last place (thanks to the nonnies who thought it would be a laff to put you over the top) the idea that you have this right to make unilateral decisions (which no one else does) is fucking laughable. Your ego is staggering.

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First of all, the idea that the mods owe you an explanation for every mod action is what is laughable here.

Second, banning a troll is fully within the scope of my designated responsibilities as a mod here, regardless of your interpretation of 'Mod', 'scope', 'duties' or 'troll'.

Third, this was far from a loose cannon act. I banned a known troll after taking note that he had escalated his threats.

Last: I'm rubber & you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

The thing is, it's not just that it's a few threads, it's that it's an entire forum. And while I get that the point of locking up the trolls is supposed to provide amusement, it's not at this point, except for a tiny minority of posters. Even if other, more interesting trolls get locked up in there, their threads are going to be taken over the same way.

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That's the point of Room 101. It's not supposed to have good threads in it -- they even disappear if no one posts for two days. The whole point of it is that bad users and bad content are stuck there. It's fine if people are amused by what goes on there, but I don't think the point was ever that we keep losers around as long as they amuse us and then kick them out once the joke's over. Room 101 is the trash can; the whole point of it is to hold refuse like Misanthropic Contrarian. Complaining about the contents of Room 101 is like complaining that you can't keep nice things in the trash can because it always has trash in it.

Besides, if there are still people sort of amused by MC's antics, doesn't that justify keeping him there in one single spot on the forums? Even if they are just a tiny minority? Everyone who doesn't like him has everywhere else to hang out instead.

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Originally posted by Winston Smith

First of all, the idea that the mods owe you an explanation for every mod action is what is laughable here.

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Your attitude sucks.

I would also like to go on record here with the following...

Exy & Myrna, I believe you both post here almost solely for the Snark Factor. You both proudly proclaim your Snarker status, and your new Chat Clique status. You're snarkers, bullies, and generally not good for the success of this board. Your support of MC bears this out. He was a troll, and you are proponents of trolling. I think you're protesting his banning because you want chaos, disorder and trouble here so that you'll be able to PALATR with the rest of the snarktards. Your constant shit-stirring, criticism and twisted interpretation of our policies is evidence enough. You are not proponents of free speech, or anything noble. I think you'd gladly see this board collapse beneath a pile of gay porn and raging trolls, just for the LULZ.

Just wanted that out there as a point of reference in case somebody strolled in here that wasn't familiar you and your shenanigans.

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Originally posted by Excalibur

Your attitude sucks.

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So does yours. What's your point?

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Originally posted by Excalbur

That's the point of Room 101. It's not supposed to have good threads in it -- they even disappear if no one posts for two days. The whole point of it is that bad users and bad content are stuck there. It's fine if people are amused by what goes on there, but I don't think the point was ever that we keep losers around as long as they amuse us and then kick them out once the joke's over. Room 101 is the trash can; the whole point of it is to hold refuse like Misanthropic Contrarian. Complaining about the contents of Room 101 is like complaining that you can't keep nice things in the trash can because it always has trash in it.

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I usually take my garbage out to the curb, and it gets taken away. I don't leave it in the trash can indefinitely. I WAS under the impression that the idea was to keep trolls there for our own amusement.

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Besides, if there are still people sort of amused by MC's antics, doesn't that justify keeping him there in one single spot on the forums? Even if they are just a tiny minority? Everyone who doesn't like him has everywhere else to hang out instead.

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I'm not sure any forum is worth having if it only amuses like 5 people.

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Originally posted by Winston Smith

I would also like to go on record here with the following...

Exy & Myrna, I believe you both post here almost solely for the Snark Factor. You both proudly proclaim your Snarker status, and your new Chat Clique status. You're snarkers, bullies, and generally not good for the success of this board. Your support of MC bears this out. He was a troll, and you are proponents of trolling. I think you're protesting his banning because you want chaos, disorder and trouble here so that you'll be able to PALATR with the rest of the snarktards. Your constant shit-stirring, criticism and twisted interpretation of our policies is evidence enough. You are not proponents of free speech, or anything noble. I think you'd gladly see this board collapse beneath a pile of gay porn and raging trolls, just for the LULZ.

Just wanted that out there as a point of reference in case somebody strolled in here that wasn't familiar you and your shenanigans.

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So this is the sort of post you think a good moderator would make here in ADF, huh?

Yes. As a matter of fact I do. I think folks should know where you're coming from.

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Originally posted by Winston Smith

First of all, the idea that the mods owe you an explanation for every mod action is what is laughable here.

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Not really, considering that transparency is one of our guiding principles.

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Second, banning a troll is fully within the scope of my designated responsibilities as a mod here, regardless of your interpretation of 'Mod', 'scope', 'duties' or 'troll'.

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I don't know exactly how the modding works, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a banning (other than for spamming) take more of a consensus between mods rather than one mod making the decision?

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Originally posted by Excalibur

Besides, if there are still people sort of amused by MC's antics, doesn't that justify keeping him there in one single spot on the forums? Even if they are just a tiny minority?

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No.

That short enough for you?

Yeah, lou, a banning usually is by concensus. MC has gone off the reservation, though, and I think there are times when somebody has to take decisive action and bear the criticism. This is one of those occasions.

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Originally posted by Winston Smith

I would also like to go on record here with the following...

Exy & Myrna, I believe you both post here almost solely for the Snark Factor. You both proudly proclaim your Snarker status, and your new Chat Clique status. You're snarkers, bullies, and generally not good for the success of this board. Your support of MC bears this out. He was a troll, and you are proponents of trolling. I think you're protesting his banning because you want chaos, disorder and trouble here so that you'll be able to PALATR with the rest of the snarktards. Your constant shit-stirring, criticism and twisted interpretation of our policies is evidence enough. You are not proponents of free speech, or anything noble. I think you'd gladly see this board collapse beneath a pile of gay porn and raging trolls, just for the LULZ.

Just wanted that out there as a point of reference in case somebody strolled in here that wasn't familiar you and your shenanigans.

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You are wrong.

The idea that keeping MC here, locked away in one tiny place where he cannot effect a single godamn thing on this board outside of his tiny sphere would lead to "chaos, disorder and trouble" is fucking asinine. The idea of you calling anyone else a bully when you are constantly insulting people in ADF (there's a forum for that you know, you may be familiar with it) is so beyond ironic.

You read the snackpit, so you know Exy and I are routinely raked over the coals over there. I have no fucking loyalty to them, that's fucking moronic. The idea that we are the head of some snarker army plotting to bring down Domebo is the kind of retarded character assassination that a Doper mod would use. What Exit? posts there, too, is he in on the conspiracy?

I don't have a problem with the policies of this board, or of the other mods here (the other bad ones resigned or were voted off). I have a problem with you, Winston, because you are a shitty mod. Behold, the only smart decision you ever made.

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Originally posted by Winston Smith

My posting style and temperment are not compatible with being a mod here. It's either be a mod and stop posting or step down.

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Wait, we're allowed to insult people outside of Thunderdome now? I could have sworn that was an actual rule of the board, but there I see Winston insulting Excalibur and Myrnalene.

I honestly don't care one way or another about MC, but did find it odd for Winston to do exactly what his fellow mods said they wouldn't do. Other than that, I really just don't care.

What does bug me is that he thinks it's perfectly fine to insult two posters in a forum where such things don't belong. As a mod he should be the EXAMPLE of the rule, not the exception. If you expect board members to follow the rules, how on earth can you break them and then DEFEND your right to do so as he did in post #28. In fact, let's look at that:

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Originally posted by Winston Smith

Yes. As a matter of fact I do. I think folks should know where you're coming from.

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You think YOU should let folks know where they are coming from? Do you have any idea who incredibly arrogant that sounds? Do you think people can't read and decide for themselves about these two posters or do you think everyone needs your Cliff's Notes versions of posters to make it around the messageboard? I mean, I realize you'll just come in here and offer your excuses and take swipes at me and your usual MO that you've displayed above, but I'm honestly curious. Why do you think taking someone else's inventory and vomiting it out here because they happen to disagree with you is behavior that you should be defending?

Winston, I like you as a poster...you kind of crack me up, actually. But as a mod, dude, you are not comporting yourself well. You have to show some restraint in the way you treat people. You can't fling insults wherever you want. Even if someone else starts it, you have to rise above it a little bit...even if you're only acting as a regular poster. If you have a problem with someone, take it to the Thunderdome, like everyone else is supposed to.

I had my reservations about your coming back as mod, but I didn't care wildly enough to say so. Now I wish I had. It's not cool to be a maverick mod here...you're supposed to be representing us as a posting community, not making your own decisions willy-nilly.

Please keep in mind as you read this that I agree with you about MC, but I think at the very least there needs to be a mod consensus before a final decision is made.

Woo, boy. Okay, a couple of points:

As a mod, my vote had been to ban him if he returned to chat or could not be kept out of it. I stand by that decision, because a long-term troll having free access to the chat room would not be pleasant.

Secondly, if there is a potential threat (such as a troll attack) it's better to ban than to allow the board to be damaged, if an admin isn't available or Room 101 is inadequate for containing the threat. If there was the potential for child pornography to be posted, banning until that potential could be neutralized was the correct action.

Third--and this is something no one has yet brought up apparently--MC did not threaten to post pictures. He threatened to post links. We can prevent people from posting images in any forum we want, but if someone maliciously wants to link to illegal or disturbing materials there is nothing to be done beyond handling it the old fashioned way: Ban and delete.

Finally, if we are a forum that intends to never, ever, ever, ever ban people, this is the future we have created for ourselves. We will have a subforum populated by people whom we cannot threaten or control in any manner. Is that what we want or not?

While I am personally ambivalent on the banning of MC, I also readily acknowledge Caerie's logic, especially as stated in her fourth point. But I would like to reiterate what I had stated in chat: that for this action to carry force, it ought to be an IP ban. It is not a perfect, fool-proof measure, but it does have the benefit of being a relatively stronger action than an account ban to commend it.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Caerie

Third--and this is something no one has yet brought up apparently--MC did not threaten to post pictures. He threatened to post links.

---

Oh no! Links!!!!!

Well, I didn't know where to stand on the banning issue, but if he was threatening to do something as dangerous as posting links, then by gods he must be stopped! Can you imagine the horrors that would follow from the posting of links?!?!?

Quote:

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Originally posted by The Logos

While I am personally ambivalent on the banning of MC, I also readily acknowledge Caerie's logic, especially as stated in her fourth point. But I would like to reiterate what I had stated in chat: that for this action to carry force, it ought to be an IP ban. It is not a perfect, fool-proof measure, but it does have the benefit of being a relatively stronger action than an account ban to commend it.

---

IP bans are worthless for professional trolls like MC. We would have to ban proxies too and we have already decided not to do that.

[quote=What Exit?]

Quote:

---

Originally posted by "The Logos":1hzasz7p

While I am personally ambivalent on the banning of MC, I also readily acknowledge Caerie's logic, especially as stated in her fourth point. But I would like to reiterate what I had stated in chat: that for this action to carry force, it ought to be an IP ban. It is not a perfect, fool-proof measure, but it does have the benefit of being a relatively stronger action than an account ban to commend it.

---

IP bans are worthless for professional trolls like MC. We would have to ban proxies too and we have already decided not to do that.[/quote:1hzasz7p]

Well, as I said, it's not a perfect, fool-proof solution, but at least it gives the appearance of making the effort. (And I make this suggestion not in response only to MC's case in particular, but in general.)

Can't we just pass the hat and raise enough money to have MC whacked?

Quote:

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Originally posted by ulfhjorr

Quote:

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Originally posted by Caerie

Third--and this is something no one has yet brought up apparently--MC did not threaten to post pictures. He threatened to post links.

---

Oh no! Links!!!!!

Well, I didn't know where to stand on the banning issue, but if he was threatening to do something as dangerous as posting links, then by gods he must be stopped! Can you imagine the horrors that would follow from the posting of links?!?!?

---

:dub:

I think you misread my post there.

Unlike with pictures, there is no preventative measure to take against people posting malicious links, and as there isn't much to be done once they have been posted aside from deleting them and taking actions against the offenders it's not something worth working ourselves into a lather over.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Caerie

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ulfhjorr

Quote:

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Originally posted by Caerie

Third--and this is something no one has yet brought up apparently--MC did not threaten to post pictures. He threatened to post links.

---

Oh no! Links!!!!!

Well, I didn't know where to stand on the banning issue, but if he was threatening to do something as dangerous as posting links, then by gods he must be stopped! Can you imagine the horrors that would follow from the posting of links?!?!?

---

:dub:

I think you misread my post there.

Unlike with pictures, there is no preventative measure to take against people posting malicious links, and as there isn't much to be done once they have been posted aside from deleting them and taking actions against the offenders it's not something worth working ourselves into a lather over.

---

Would it be possible to set up Room 101 so that it automatically deletes anything inside url codes?

Actually we can prevent 101-Restricted members from using all BBCode. But he can still post a broken link of course. I just did that in fact.

If you'll permit a comment from an outsider:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Caerie

We will have a subforum populated by people whom we cannot threaten or control in any manner. Is that what we want or not?

---

You want forums filled with people you can threaten and control?

Must be fun times around here. :wink:

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Actually we can prevent 101-Restricted members from using all BBCode. But he can still post a broken link of course. I just did that in fact.

---

If you can eliminate all links and images from Room 101 and restrict 101 restricted users from chat, what are the potential problems of leaving trolls contained in Room 101?

That's more of a question to the people that are voting to ban, I guess. I'm curious. What are your concerns?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Heffalump and Roo

If you'll permit a comment from an outsider:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Caerie

We will have a subforum populated by people whom we cannot threaten or control in any manner. Is that what we want or not?

---

You want forums filled with people you can threaten and control?

Must be fun times around here. :wink:

---

Nah, it's just that the people who care should know what it is that they want. I am actually more apathetic than anyone could ever dream. :lol:

Good luck, Winston. I raised this same topic a while ago, and was shouted down by the same cadre who now oppose you. Betcha you'll get fucked in the next mod "election", too.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Heffalump and Roo

If you can eliminate all links and images from Room 101 and restrict 101 restricted users from chat, what are the potential problems of leaving trolls contained in Room 101?

That's more of a question to the people that are voting to ban, I guess. I'm curious. What are your concerns?

---

If we ever get chat fixed, I don't really care if MC stays. I seemed to have locked down the other holes that are not just an alternate account.

We have to watch out for Global Announcements, but the work around is simple. Chat is the deal breaker right now.

Quote:

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Originally posted by danceswithcats

Betcha you'll get fucked in the next mod "election", too.

---

.......what?

Quote:

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Originally posted by danceswithcats

Good luck, Winston. I raised this same topic a while ago, and was shouted down by the same cadre who now oppose you. Betcha you'll get fucked in the next mod "election", too.

---

Yeah man. It's pretty terrible when a bunch of users don't comply with a moderator's demands. It's just against nature, really.

Quote:

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Originally posted by danceswithcats

Good luck, Winston. I raised this same topic a while ago, and was shouted down by the same cadre who now oppose you. Betcha you'll get fucked in the next mod "election", too.

---

When it comes to MC, I am literally ambivilent. I thought Room 101 was a bad idea when it was first suggested, but it's what we have now, and what we do with the trolls makes little to no difference to me. But come on. There are like 3 people in this thread who are annoyed by the banning enough to comment on it. Do you think that the small handful of people who post in chat have that much influence? Honestly?

Welll, have read through this and the rest and at this point MC needs to be banned, regardless of fixing the chat window. There are lines you do not cross and he has stepped over them. MC is no longer funny. If he has a sock then, he will be treated in exactly the same way as we deal with other socks. On a case by case basis.

As for never banning and always sticking them in Room 101, the answer to that is simply bwhitman. I don't remember the same outcry when he was shown the door.

Quote:

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Originally posted by CatInASuit

As for never banning and always sticking them in Room 101, the answer to that is simply bwhitman. I don't remember the same outcry when he was shown the door.

---

I didn't think that was the right decision either, for the record.

I do. For the record. A 78 of Spike Jones, to be exact.

Honestly, I don't care either way. We can keep the sideshow or dump him. It looks like we can lock MC and others out of causing issues while 101'd but I thought MC stopped being vaguely interesting a long time ago.

I still think Winston reacted correctly but missed explaining why he did it initially. MC had crossed a line where if he followed through on the threat, it could have meant trouble for CRSP or McNutty.

BTW: Sleeps, I think you misread Winston, I think he meant he wanted people to know where he was coming from.

Edited: nevermind

Quote:

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Originally posted by danceswithcats

Good luck, Winston. I raised this same topic a while ago, and was shouted down by the same cadre who now oppose you. Betcha you'll get fucked in the next mod "election", too.

---

John McCain was terribly sorry when his sorry ass crossed them too!

In other news, you make me laugh.

I see we've found a new issue to get all up in arms over. Oh no, mods might be using their discretion and acting unilaterally when it comes to a really fucking serious issue.

Before I get into that, I want to say that if all bbcode has been disabled in Room 101, then I have no problem with letting MC fester in there. I don't think it's worth worrying about that particular forum being dominated by horrible awful things nobody wants to see. I don't particularly see the point, but whatever. At that point, I don't feel like there's a personal risk to me.

That said, in case it's not obvious, I'm 100% behind Winston on this issue, and I'm going one step further. Here is how it is going to work: When someone threatens to (or does) post child porn or links to it, they will be banned without discussion or a vote. No compromise on this issue. If the mods don't agree to this, please let me know so I can log into the server and shut the board down as soon as humanly possible.

All the images posted here, with the exception of avatars, are "just links" to images hosted on other sites, but when stupid people who don't understand how the internet works apply the law, they don't necessarily make that kind of distinction. If your server serves a page that has an image of child porn in it and that comes to the attention of the right people, the police are going to act first and ask questions later. I am assuming the absolute worst here, meaning they confiscate the server and possibly enter my house and confiscate my computers, including those belonging to my employer, at which point my life and the lives of others close to me just got really really really fucked up because certain people think the "sport" of entertaining this idiot is so goddamn important. And even if we're just talking text links and no images, I'm still not budging. The guys who started The Pirate Bay are in fucking jail, and their entire operation was simply links tracking where to find illegal content -- and those were just run-of-the-mill copyright violations, not stuff that gets your ass hunted down by vigilantes before you exonerate yourself . The law and the people enforcing it simply do not understand technical subtleties and are not particularly interested in figuring them out. If domebo has links to child porn, it's not a particularly big stretch for someone to make the claim that we're disseminating information about it, and for my ass to get arrested. Whether you personally agree that that's right is irrelevant.

When it comes to this issue, I am not compromising, and I'm not listening to any hand-wringers who want to argue about transparency and free speech and democracy and whether it's good and just and desirable to ban someone who threatens to start screwing around with child porn. If the board administration wants to be pushed around by the more vocal members such that we need to be tolerant of people threatening to post child porn or links to it, then the board needs to get the off my server immediately.

Want to call me scared? Fine. This scares me. If you are not scared on my behalf, then I invite you to volunteer your own server.

IP ban MC. He's a one-trick pony that needs to be sent to the glue factory. And the child porn thing is just too far.

Then we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya. Right guys? Guys? GUYS?

So am I the only one that thinks that if MC was actually going to post illegal material, he would have just gone ahead and done it instead of running his mouth about it? And yet all of you are treating this situation as if he actually had. I'm reminded of Joe Buck sanctimoniously telling the viewing audience what a disgusting act we had just witnessed when Randy Moss mimed mooning the crowd at a football game. If you're going to ban him, ban him for what he's actually done. Right now you're just giving him a martyr complex.

Quote:

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Originally posted by McNutty

That said, in case it's not obvious, I'm 100% behind Winston on this issue, and I'm going one step further. Here is how it is going to work: When someone threatens to (or does) post child porn or links to it, they will be banned without discussion or a vote. No compromise on this issue. If the mods don't agree to this, please let me know so I can log into the server and shut the board down as soon as humanly possible...



...When it comes to this issue, I am not compromising, and I'm not listening to any hand-wringers who want to argue about transparency and free speech and democracy and whether it's good and just and desirable to ban someone who threatens to start screwing around with child porn. If the board administration wants to be pushed around by the more vocal members such that we need to be tolerant of people threatening to post child porn or links to it, then the board needs to get the off my server immediately.

Want to call me scared? Fine. This scares me. If you are not scared on my behalf, then I invite you to volunteer your own server.

---

I am sorry if this upsets anyone, but I totally agree. It scares me a lot that we could have legal issues because McNutty is willing to host this board. Please respect the fact that I don't want anything to do with child porn and our server.

It's easy to talk about free speech for trolls when you aren't the one who could be held liable for the shit they spew.

I really appreciate that Winston decided to react quickly in this circumstance. It was a judgment call and I think it was a good one.

McNutty and SugarPlum, thank you, the both of you, for putting this into perspective. While it's a big Internet hypothetical to most of us, to the two of you it's not something to risk.

All of my rhetorical questions and general disinterest in drama aside, I do agree that Winston absolutely made the right call here. A quick, unilateral decision to ban in the face of a potential threat is not a bad thing. I doubt that MC would have truly posted links to child pornography, but Jesus, is that honestly a threat we're going to call someone's bluff on? As a mod who might have to deal with removing images or malicious links, I don't want to be quite that "wild west." Frankly, I think that one would end my message board days for good.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Emperor Norton

So am I the only one that thinks that if MC was actually going to post illegal material, he would have just gone ahead and done it instead of running his mouth about it? And yet all of you are treating this situation as if he actually had. I'm reminded of Joe Buck sanctimoniously telling the viewing audience what a disgusting act we had just witnessed when Randy Moss mimed mooning the crowd at a football game. If you're going to ban him, ban him for what he's actually done. Right now you're just giving him a martyr complex.

---

Oh, I think he's blowing hot air, sure--but neither do I want to gamble that he's not. He's a stupid troll and not worth the risk. He threatened to link to child porn. No skin off my back if that's a bannable offense.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Emperor Norton

So am I the only one that thinks that if MC was actually going to post illegal material, he would have just gone ahead and done it instead of running his mouth about it?

---

I don't care if he's actually going to do it. It's unlikely that he will or ever planned to, especially given that he'd have to be even stupider than anyone ever estimated to actually follow through. Doesn't matter a bit.

Quote:

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And yet all of you are treating this situation as if he actually had.

---

If you walk up to me with a baseball bat and tell me you're going to hit me with it, I am going to respond as if you actually intend to hit me with it. Having someone threaten to post child porn on your server and then waiting to see if they really do it would just be stupid.

This threat, even if it's an empty threat, is hereby a way to officially declare that you no longer want to be part of the board. Akin to, say, emailing an admin and asking them to delete your account. Yep, I've decided this by fiat, because I'm an ogre. If and when the board moves to a server I don't own, someone else gets to decide whether that rule stays.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Emperor Norton

So am I the only one that thinks that if MC was actually going to post illegal material, he would have just gone ahead and done it instead of running his mouth about it? And yet all of you are treating this situation as if he actually had. I'm reminded of Joe Buck sanctimoniously telling the viewing audience what a disgusting act we had just witnessed when Randy Moss mimed mooning the crowd at a football game. If you're going to ban him, ban him for what he's actually done. Right now you're just giving him a martyr complex.

---

I'm sure MC is loving every moment of this as well. It doesn't matter because this is something you don't joke about.

You don't take the risk, you don't call his bluff, you just ban him.

Permanently.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Emperor Norton

So am I the only one that thinks that if MC was actually going to post illegal material, he would have just gone ahead and done it instead of running his mouth about it? And yet all of you are treating this situation as if he actually had. I'm reminded of Joe Buck sanctimoniously telling the viewing audience what a disgusting act we had just witnessed when Randy Moss mimed mooning the crowd at a football game. If you're going to ban him, ban him for what he's actually done. Right now you're just giving him a martyr complex.

---

As a counter-example, when the issue came up a couple of weeks ago about banning SBSO for saying he was going to troll, I was against that for pretty much the reasons you give here. Action can be taken when something actionable has been done, otherwise you're just rising to the bait.

In this case, however, the stakes are different. As McNutty explained, because this board (and McNutty himself) can get into very real and serious trouble if someone posts links to child porn, the reactive approach doesn't work here. MC was an entertaining troll, I guess, but he crossed a pretty unambiguous line by threatening to cause real-life trouble for other members.

If banning him feeds his martyr complex, so be it. I doubt anything anyone here says would receive a rational response from that boy.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Excalibur

Yeah man. It's pretty terrible when a bunch of users don't comply with a moderator's demands. It's just against nature, really.

---

Are you kidding? What have we demanded of you?

I think you know you're losing traction with the real argument here, so you're resorting to your fallback position of vague comments that sort of suggest the mod staff is somehow persecuting you. Nothing anyone could pin on you later on, because you could just weasel out of any ownership of these sentiments (since they are essentially meaningless, except I think I've got your intent nailed down). You're just putting it out there to stir up a little dissent.

I agree with the excellent posts of Excalibre and Myrnalene, and probably some of the others in this thread.

If a poster wants to troll the board, there is not much you can do to stop them. This way lies madness. It should be incumbent upon the other posters to ignore that poster. How hard is it to avert your eyes and skip a post?

Winston Smith's behavior in this thread reminds me of the worst excesses of the SDMB administration. He needs to step down immediately. As a matter of fact, I was surprised he was taken back as a moderator a while ago after his erratic behavior - posting nosense in the 'Dome, resigning with no explanation, then again, with no explanation, wanting to come back. His attitude in here that moderators should do whatever they want without care for what the posts want is a red flag. If CRSP can't bring it upon himself to fire him then we should have another moderator election. The last one was a good way of trimming the deadwood, and it looks like it's already time again.

McNutty's supposed "concerns" for his server remind me of the pretexts they use at the Dope to ban a whole bunch of stuff like copyrights, DVD backups, etc. What's next? Someone jokes in a thread "McNutty, I should sue you for that" and all of a sudden that person is banned with no warning? That's the kind of stuff I can get elsewhere in a more active forum with more posters. McNutty, you can take off the tinfoil hat - I'm sure that the FBI and CIA are not closely monitoring all the internet traffic in and out of your basement. :roll:

Y'all are starting down a bad road. :sad:

On the other hand, Winston, nice use of italics in your last post. :)

Well I think we are suppose to do this in the Hive, but I will cast my vote and my lot for keeping MC banned at this point.
That makes 4 votes at least for banning. CIAS, Sublight, myself and Winston of course. I think it was T&B that convinced me in the end. Thank you for the help.


I just remind people, MC will probably be back shortly with his socks.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Winston Smith

Quote:

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Originally posted by Excalibur

Yeah man. It's pretty terrible when a bunch of users don't comply with a moderator's demands. It's just against nature, really.

---

Are you kidding? What have we demanded of you?

I think you know you're losing traction with the real argument here, so you're resorting to your fallback position of vague comments that sort of suggest the mod staff is somehow persecuting you. Nothing anyone could pin on you later on, because you could just weasel out of any ownership of these sentiments (since they are essentially meaningless, except I think I've got your intent nailed down). You're just putting it out there to stir up a little dissent.

---

Yeah so I was specifically responding to Danceswithcats' characterization of other people disagreeing with him as "shouting him down" but hey don't let me interfere with your self-righteousness or anything.

On the other hand, Winston, nice use of italics in your last post. :)

What Exit, I am sorely disappointed in you. I know you have good intentions but what is happening to you man? Think of what you may be turning into. :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

I just remind people, MC will probably be back shortly with his socks.

---

Does this mean the beginnig of the sock hunts? If not, then this whole banning kerfluffle was an empty exercise, and the only benefit you got out of it is antagonizing some of the good posters on this board.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

On the other hand, Winston, nice use of italics in your last post. :)

---

Thanks. I took a night course in creative writing at Community College once.

[quote=Truth and Beauty]

Quote:

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Originally posted by "What Exit?":l7v36y4p

I just remind people, MC will probably be back shortly with his socks.

---

Does this mean the beginnig of the sock hunts? If not, then this whole banning kerfluffle was an empty exercise, and the only benefit you got out of it is antagonizing some of the good posters on this board.[/quote:l7v36y4p]
Neither in my opinion. Neither an empty gesture nor a declaration of sock hunting. However I will admit it is a gesture largely without teeth.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Winston Smith

Thanks. I took a night course in creative writing at Community College once.

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And it shows!

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Neither an empty gesture

---

Well, not empty in the sense that it did accomplish something. Unfortunately, since you're not getting rid of MC by this method, the thing it did accomplish was not very productive.

[quote=Truth and Beauty]

Quote:

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Originally posted by "What Exit?":2n37lp2f

Neither an empty gesture

---

Well, not empty in the sense that it did accomplish something. Unfortunately, since you're not getting rid of MC by this method, the thing it did accomplish was not very productive.[/quote:2n37lp2f]
I cannot disagree with you on this one.

[quote=Truth and Beauty]

Quote:

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Originally posted by "Winston Smith":1s8u277c

Thanks. I took a night course in creative writing at Community College once.

---

And it shows![/quote:1s8u277c]

I know! That was the best $280 I ever spent!

Before I read the rest of the thread, I just want to say that I agree with McNutty 100%. This isn't our risk, it's his, and therefore it's his call. It's that simple.

Quote:

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Originally posted by featherlou

Before I read the rest of the thread, I just want to say that I agree with McNutty 100%. This isn't our risk, it's his, and therefore it's his call. It's that simple.

---

So we all have to kowtow to whatever McNutty wants to see happen on the board? Whatever. :???:

I have no problem with mods sock-hunting for banned member IPs.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

Quote:

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Originally posted by featherlou

Before I read the rest of the thread, I just want to say that I agree with McNutty 100%. This isn't our risk, it's his, and therefore it's his call. It's that simple.

---

So we all have to kowtow to whatever McNutty wants to see happen on the board? Whatever. :???:

---

You can look at it that way. Or you can look at if from the perspective that McNutty volunteered a server he had when we were unable to continue on the server that we currently had, and as the server provider, he has risks and responsibilities that are different from those of regular posters, and that's just a fact of life.

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

I just remind people, MC will probably be back shortly with his socks.

---

As an aside, I suspect that whoever the poster was that was behind the MC sock was getting bored with MC's gimmick and wanted to be banned as an end to the "Misanthropic Contrarian Story Arc" (so to speak). He did almost exactly the same thing over at Giraffe--he dared us to ban him and hey, we did.

I believe him when he says he has other identities and is contributing here and there. MC was getting stale and I'll bet the person behind him knew it.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

What Exit, I am sorely disappointed in you. I know you have good intentions but what is happening to you man? Think of what you may be turning into. :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

---

Yeah Jim, you used to be cool. You were one of us. It was about the music, man. But now you've gone all corporate and you're brown-nosing for THE MAN. What about the dream, buddy? WHAT ABOUT THE MUSIC?!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Fenris

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

I just remind people, MC will probably be back shortly with his socks.

---

As an aside, I suspect that whoever the poster was that was behind the MC sock was getting bored with MC's gimmick and wanted to be banned as an end to the "Misanthropic Contrarian Story Arc" (so to speak). He did almost exactly the same thing over at Giraffe--he dared us to ban him and hey, we did.

I believe him when he says he has other identities and is contributing here and there. MC was getting stale and I'll bet the person behind him knew it.

---

I think you're right, Fenris. I can't imagine anyone could keep up that schtick indefinitely.

As far as socks are concerned, I think Fenris is also right that he's already contributing to the board elsewhere. Certainly, if he isn't now, he will be. Not sure why that matters, though, if it's the behavior we wanted to eliminate. If the behavior starts up again, just ban him again. Otherwise, who cares? It's not like we don't have trolls here as it is.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Fenris

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

I just remind people, MC will probably be back shortly with his socks.

---

As an aside, I suspect that whoever the poster was that was behind the MC sock was getting bored with MC's gimmick and wanted to be banned as an end to the "Misanthropic Contrarian Story Arc" (so to speak). He did almost exactly the same thing over at Giraffe--he dared us to ban him and hey, we did.

I believe him when he says he has other identities and is contributing here and there. MC was getting stale and I'll bet the person behind him knew it.

---

Thank you for expressing my exact thoughts on MC. Well said as usual.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by [i

Fenris[/i]]Yeah Jim, you used to be cool. You were one of us. It was about the music, man. But now you've gone all corporate and you're brown-nosing for THE MAN. What about the dream, buddy? WHAT ABOUT THE MUSIC?!

---

Oh man, you're right, let's get the band back together! ROAD TRIP!

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Well I think we are suppose to do this in the Hive, but I will cast my vote and my lot for keeping MC banned at this point.
That makes 4 votes at least for banning. CIAS, Sublight, myself and Winston of course. I think it was T&B that convinced me in the end. Thank you for the help.


I just remind people, MC will probably be back shortly with his socks.

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Not that it matters at this point, but I am for keeping him banned. As Fenris said, he basically asked to be banned. Consider this a term of our agreement for this server. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than paying for it and any server we did pay for would probably have the same demand.

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Originally posted by featherlou

I have no problem with mods sock-hunting for banned member IPs.

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SDMB here we come!

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Or you can look at if from the perspective that McNutty volunteered a server he had when we were unable to continue on the server that we currently had, and as the server provider, he has risks and responsibilities that are different from those of regular posters, and that's just a fact of life.

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Ah, the old "but he has contributed so much to the board we should all be grateful to him" defense. Haven't heard that one in a while.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I can't imagine anyone could keep up that schtick indefinitely.

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Oh, I believe someone could. :tongue:

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

Ah, the old "but he has contributed so much to the board we should all be grateful to him" defense. Haven't heard that one in a while.

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You still haven't.

What you're hearing is him (correctly) saying "It's my swimming pool. I'm not charging you to play in it, you can do pretty much whatever you want, but no pissing in it. If you want to piss in a pool, go find your own."

I am so sick of your bullying and stirring up drama, Truth and Beauty. In my experience, attacking people rarely makes them want to hear you out.

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Truth and Beauty wrote:
Ah, the old "but he has contributed so much to the board we should all be grateful to him" defense. Haven't heard that one in a while.

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I don't think anyone is saying anything like this. But, if you don't like how this is going you could always set up and pay for a server. Then we can take a vote about moving Domebo to your server, where everyone would have to "kowtow" to you. Perhaps you would be more wise and benevolent. Probably plenty of members would like to get out from McNutty's oppressive regime, where he makes crazy demands like 'no child porn or threatening child porn on my server.'

Viva la Revolucion!!!!

Same group, different subject. I honestly don't know why these same few people are constantly allowed to hold Reason hostage and prevent smooth operation of the board. "Oh Noes, they might not like us anymore!"

Just ban the fucker already and be done with it.

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Originally posted by Chimera

Same group, different subject. I honestly don't know why these same few people are constantly allowed to hold Reason hostage and prevent smooth operation of the board. "Oh Noes, they might not like us anymore!"

Just ban the fucker already and be done with it.

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MC is banned for good at this point.

FWIW, I support the ban, for the same reasons as McNutty. I'm owner of the domain, and recognized operator of the site, and I don't want any association with child porn. I guess this may seem like a case of inventing a rule, but I don't think anybody even imagined this would be an issue. The Thunderdome rules explicitly state that certain activities are banned/whatever to limit criminal liability. It isn't too much of a stretch to extend this to threatening to post images that get paediatricians beaten to a pulp by gangs.

Oh, and Winston Smith, please find a way of getting your point across politely.

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

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Originally posted by featherlou

I have no problem with mods sock-hunting for banned member IPs.

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SDMB here we come!

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Huge difference between sock-hunting for banned members when you've banned them for making snarky comments about other posters in the wrong forum, and sock-hunting for members we ban here. So far, itseems that banned members on the Dome are kiddy-porn posters and spammers.
Which one of those should be given a second chance, now?

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Originally posted by Fenris

What you're hearing is him (correctly) saying "It's my swimming pool. I'm not charging you to play in it, you can do pretty much whatever you want, but no pissing in it. If you want to piss in a pool, go find your own."

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Look, I'm sure McNutty is a fine fellow. But then many of the dope mods are fine fellows too.
What I heard McNutty saying is "don't piss in my pool. And BTW I'm the one who'll tell you what pissing in the pool means. And I don't care if you think my definition is stupid - if you don't like it I'll deflate my pool and go home." It's his attitude that rankles.

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Originally posted by SugarPlum

I am so sick of your bullying and stirring up drama, Truth and Beauty. In my experience, attacking people rarely makes them want to hear you out.

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Bullying? I think you're being a mite sensitive, my little SugarPlum. :wink:

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But, if you don't like how this is going you could always set up and pay for a server. Then we can take a vote about moving Domebo to your server, where everyone would have to "kowtow" to you.

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Not to brag, but I do have vast computing resources available to me, and I will gladly make them available to host the board upon request.

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Perhaps you would be more wise and benevolent.

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Perhaps. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

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Probably plenty of members would like to get out from McNutty's oppressive regime, where he makes crazy demands like 'no child porn or threatening child porn on my server.'

Viva la Revolucion!!!!

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I am not intending on staring a splinter board of a splinter board though. Starting a board is a lot of work and keeping the posters even more so. See my "board traffic comparison" thread for a discussion of the topic.

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

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Originally posted by Fenris

What you're hearing is him (correctly) saying "It's my swimming pool. I'm not charging you to play in it, you can do pretty much whatever you want, but no pissing in it. If you want to piss in a pool, go find your own."

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Look, I'm sure McNutty is a fine fellow. But then many of the dope mods are fine fellows too.
What I heard McNutty saying is "don't piss in my pool. And BTW I'm the one who'll tell you what pissing in the pool means. And I don't care if you think my definition is stupid - if you don't like it I'll deflate my pool and go home." It's his attitude that rankles.

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This post was decolored by the decolorist.

That said, it IS his pool, it IS his risk and if it were mine, I wouldn't care if you didn't like my definition was either. If you pooped in my pool and then said "But you said 'pissing'. This was poop!", I'd still throw you out.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

MC is banned for good at this point.

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:sad:

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Originally posted by Boozahol Squid, P.I.

Huge difference between sock-hunting for banned members when you've banned them for making snarky comments about other posters in the wrong forum, and sock-hunting for members we ban here.

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:???: ah dun geddit - shorter words plz

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Originally posted by Fenris

[That said, it IS his pool, it IS his risk and if it were mine, I wouldn't care if you didn't like my definition was either. If you pooped in my pool and then said "But you said 'pissing'. This was poop!", I'd still throw you out.

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Fenris, you are a master of stating the obvious. Congratulations! Yes, it's his pool, it's CRSP's board, blah-blah-blah. Are you just copying and pasting from the cuntlapper's posts in the SDMB? Or maybe you're doing one of those clever meta-irony things and I'm being whooshed. :smash:

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

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Originally posted by Fenris

[That said, it IS his pool, it IS his risk and if it were mine, I wouldn't care if you didn't like my definition was either. If you pooped in my pool and then said "But you said 'pissing'. This was poop!", I'd still throw you out.

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Fenris, you are a master of stating the obvious. Congratulations! Yes, it's his pool, it's CRSP's board, blah-blah-blah. Are you just copying and pasting from the cuntlapper's posts in the SDMB? Or maybe you're doing one of those clever meta-irony things and I'm being whooshed. :smash:

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This post has been decolored by the decolorist

No--see, you seem to be arguing that somehow your opinion of what constitutes "risk" to McNutty matters. I'm saying: it doesn't and shouldn't.

Regarding normal board stuff, yes. Posters absolutely matter. But when it comes to the functioning of the hardware and the safety of McNutty and family, your/our vote is irrelevant.

If the posters here decide that in the interests of transparency, McNutty needs to post his name/address/phone number and carry a pager at all times, he'd be within rights to say "Fuck off". And if the posters here for whatever reason decided to say "Well, we should allow people to post links to kiddie porn", he's still within his rights.

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Originally posted by Fenris

You seem to be arguing that somehow your opinion of what constitutes "risk" to McNutty matters. I'm saying: it doesn't and shouldn't.

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So if McNutty all of a suddent thinks "it's risky to make fun of scientologists" or "it's risky to talk about music downloads" or "it's risky to joke about waterboarding Cheney" then he'd be within rights to say "Fuck off"? Yes I understand that. I also understand that he might be stupid to think that, and I would post it if I thought it was stupid.
His idea that if someone posts a link to an unsafe image, he will end up in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison is just that: stupid.

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the safety of McNutty and family

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Can you get any more dramatic? Perhaps you can conjure a scenario where McNutty and family (including charming smiling blonde-haired blue-eyed moppets) are being held prisoner in a dungeon and only Fenris posting in About Domebo can save them? :roll:

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

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Originally posted by Fenris

You seem to be arguing that somehow your opinion of what constitutes "risk" to McNutty matters. I'm saying: it doesn't and shouldn't.

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So if McNutty all of a suddent thinks "it's risky to make fun of scientologists" or "it's risky to talk about music downloads" or "it's risky to joke about waterboarding Cheney" then he'd be within rights to say "Fuck off"? Yes I understand that. I also understand that he might be stupid to think that, and I would post it if I thought it was stupid.
His idea that if someone posts a link to an unsafe image, he will end up in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison is just that: stupid.

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This post has been decolored by the decolorist
So? Offer your own server and allow kiddie-porn links to be posted or are you not willing to put your money where your mouth is?

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the safety of McNutty and family

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]Can you get any more dramatic? Perhaps you can conjure a scenario where McNutty and family (including charming smiling blonde-haired blue-eyed moppets) are being held prisoner in a dungeon and only Fenris posting in About Domebo can save them? :roll: [/quote]
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Sarcasm is a powerful and terrifying weapon, young padwan. Come back when you've learned to use it.

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Originally posted by Fenris

Offer your own server and allow kiddie-porn links to be posted or are you not willing to put your money where your mouth is?

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If you had bothered to read this thread, you would have seen that I already have. :P

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Sarcasm is a powerful and terrifying weapon, young padwan. Come back when you've learned to use it.

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And why don't you come back when you've learned the intricacies of ubb coding.

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

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Originally posted by Fenris

Offer your own server and allow kiddie-porn links to be posted or are you not willing to put your money where your mouth is?

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If you had bothered to read this thread, you would have seen that I already have. :P

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Good. Seriously. That sounds great. It's not like hosting this site is some big privilege for McNutty. He hasn't printed up business cards or added it to his CV or gone on a guest lecture circuit. So far what it's gotten him is a little extra work (he doesn't mind), a slower server for his personal use, and a bunch of crap from you.

I'm a little concerned that it might be somewhat difficult for you since you seem to have a limited understanding of the mechanics of hosting a board.

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

And why don't you come back when you've learned the intricacies of ubb coding.

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Um, nice comeback. :roll: That Fenris is just such an idiot when it comes to using message boards.

All that said, I think it's time for me to stop feeding the troll. Apparently I have a passel of blond haired blue eyed moppets I should be looking after instead.

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Originally posted by SugarPlum

I'm a little concerned that it might be somewhat difficult for you since you seem to have a limited understanding of the mechanics of hosting a board.

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You know, I was asking those (unanswered) questions because I was surprised that server logs would be 4x the size of the board database. Because, you see, I do know a little bit about webservers. :tongue:

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All that said, I think it's time for me to stop feeding the troll.

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I've been told that it's against the rules to call someone a troll outside the 'Dome, but I think the mods are too busy thinking about ways to boot me to notice anyone trying to start fights with me.

It's hard to imagine people trying to start fights with you, Truth & Beauty, because you're in the middle of all the fights on this board (usually that you have started with your "disingenuous," oh-so-innocent question asking). How would they get a fight-starting wedged into all that?

[quote=SugarPlum]

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

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Originally posted by Fenris

Offer your own server and allow kiddie-porn links to be posted or are you not willing to put your money where your mouth is?

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If you had bothered to read this thread, you would have seen that I already have. :P

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Good. Seriously. That sounds great. It's not like hosting this site is some big privilege for McNutty. He hasn't printed up business cards or added it to his CV or gone on a guest lecture circuit. So far what it's gotten him is a little extra work (he doesn't mind), a slower server for his personal use, and a bunch of crap from you.

I'm a little concerned that it might be somewhat difficult for you since you seem to have a limited understanding of the mechanics of hosting a board.

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Originally posted by "Truth and Beauty":139c72vv

And why don't you come back when you've learned the intricacies of ubb coding.

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Um, nice comeback. :roll: That Fenris is just such an idiot when it comes to using message boards.[/quote:139c72vv]

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Originally posted by SugarPlum

All that said, I think it's time for me to stop feeding the troll.

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ur doin it wrong

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Originally posted by Truth and Beauty

I was surprised that server logs would be 4x the size of the board database.

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The logs are more like 50 times the size of the database, genius.

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you see, I do know a little bit about webservers. :tongue:

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Clearly.

Listen, I hear your complaint. You want a board where posting child porn or links to it (or threatening to do that) is allowed. Make it happen. I'm not holding anyone hostage. There are several people who are perfectly capable of copying the board to a different server in order to get out from under my iron fist should you get their support. But I'm afraid it's going to take more than one lone shit-stirrer to get this worthy cause off the ground. Good luck.

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Originally posted by McNutty

Listen, I hear your complaint. You want a board where posting child porn or links to it (or threatening to do that) is allowed. Make it happen. I'm not holding anyone hostage. There are several people who are perfectly capable of copying the board to a different server in order to get out from under my iron fist should you get their support. But I'm afraid it's going to take more than one lone shit-stirrer to get this worthy cause off the ground. Good luck.

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Glad to hear it, I think most of us appreciate your help and assistance very much.

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Originally posted by McNutty

You want a board where posting child porn or links to it (or threatening to do that) is allowed.

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McNutty, I didn't come in here to start a fight with you. I appreciate you hosting the board on your server. Would someone else do as good a job as you do? Probably not, you are willing to donate a lot of time to the maintenance of the board. I appreciate it.
With that being said, I disagree with you on a minor point: I don't want a board where posting child porn is allowed. I don't want a board where links to child porn are allowed. But I think if someone threatens to do it, they should not be banned until they actually do it. That's where we differ. If they do it (post child porn), I would not argue with the owner of the server giving any information logged about that account to the authorities if necessary.