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The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #3
The DoMeBo Photography Class
Lesson #3 – “How Big and How Fast?”
OK, boys and girls, this will be my feeble attempt to explain exposures, shutter speeds and apertures. If I fail to get the point across (and I just know I’ll fail to get the point across), you are free to peruse the many, many other attempts at the same thing. A Google search will get many hits, and on these very boards there have been previous posts on the subject.
Now… to action!
“Exposure” refers to the act of letting light hit light-sensitive film for a brief amount of time. For us digital photographers, the film is replaced with a light-sensitive chip, but the idea is the same. Exposure is used to refer to the amount of light captured by the chip and the lightness or darkness of the resulting image. This is controlled by three things: ISO (film speed), shutter speed, and aperture. Aperture also controls how much of the picture is in focus, called “depth of field.” More on that later.
Here are some examples of different exposures:
Papa Bear took this picture of mrs.gnu. It’s underexposed. Aperture at f/2.8, shutter speed at 8 (1/8sec.).
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...exposed_sm.jpg
Mama Bear took this picture of a rock stack on a beach. It’s overexposed. Aperture at f/7.1, shutter speed at 125.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...exposed_sm.jpg
Baby Bear took this picture of Jiminy Cricket. It’s just right. Aperture at f/7.1, shutter speed at 320.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...xposure_sm.jpg
OK, OK. I took all three pictures. Ssshhhhhhhh.
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ISO (Film Speed)
This actually stand for “International Organization for Standardization,” not anything to do with film speed directly. The ISO merely standardized the numbers. In them olden days of film, there was still something kind of like pixels used, call “grain.” The size of the individual grains determined their sensitivity to light; the bigger they were, the faster they could be exposed. The flip side of the coin is resolution; faster film lost detail and if you embiggened faster film you could see individual grains.
In digital photography, the ISO setting on your camera is an arbitrarily-generated speed setting on the image chip that does a fairly good approximation of the film speed numbers it’s emulating. You still get the trade offs of resolution and speed, but the graininess of digital is pretty ugly.
For a ridiculously detailed description of film speeds, get thee to Wikipedia.
What the numbers mean:
The higher the number the faster you can take a picture, the lower the number, the better your resolution. Each increase is a doubling of the speed, meaning 800 film takes half the time to expose than 400 film. 100, 200, 400, and in some cases 800 are the most common for normal people, like you and me. I recommend keeping you ISO set in this range. If you have all the time in the world, set it lower, but you probably won’t see much of a difference unless you print it really big.
To be continued...
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Shutter Speed
This should be pretty easy to understand. No, really. The shutter is a little door inside your camera that keeps light from hitting the chip. When you take a picture, the shutter opens and closes in a fraction of a second. Exactly how long it stays open is called the shutter speed. With me so far?
The longer the shutter stays open, the more light hits the chip. If something in the frame moves while the shutter is open, it will end up looking blurred. This is called “motion blur.” If the camera moves while the shutter is open, everything will be blurred.
What the numbers mean:
The normal convention for shutter speed number is that the number shown is the reciprocal of a fraction of a second. That probably didn’t make any sense. If you see “60” that really means the shutter will stay open for 1/60th of a second. “500” would be 1/500th of a second. Some cameras now either will show the “1/” with the speed, or show a decimal for slow speeds.
If the shutter speed is slower than, say, ˝ a second, some other notation may be shown. My camera puts a little quotation mark (actually a double prime mark) behind the number to mean full second. So a three-second exposure would be displayed as: 3"0
I’m going to shamelessly borrow chacoguy420’s chart for this:
4000= 1/4,000 of a second------------------Will stop the propeller of an airplane.
2000= 1/1,000 of a second------------------Will stop the main rotor of a helicopter.
500= 1/500 0f a second---------------------Action Shots: stop your buddy jumping in mid-air, a drop of water is a dot.
250= 1/250th of a second-------------------Vacation Shots: A person walking will be sharp; a thrown ball will blur.
125/sec ----------------------------------- If you want to show moving humans, this is it; torsos will stay, limbs will blur.
1/60----------------------------------------They say, this is the slowest exposure that you can stay still.
1/30----------------------------------------Set your camera on the hood of your car and prop it up with a sweater.
1/15----------------------------------------Use a Tripod.
If, in the future, I mention “slow shutter speed” I mean anything slower than 1/60.
To balance out the amount of light let in during different shutter speeds, and still get the right exposure, you change the size of the hole. That will be covered under “Aperture” below.
Example time:
I convinced my photographer’s assistant, Raven, to chase a ball for me. It was either that or go out to the street and take pictures of cars. Playing fetch is more fun...
These were taken with “Tv” mode, which stands for “Time Value” meaning shutter speed priority for Canon.
First up is with a shutter speed of 60. The camera chose the aperture at f/22, the highest it would go with the lens I was using.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...rSpeed_1sm.jpg
Next I increased the shutter speed to 640. The camera set the aperture to f/7.1. Notice that even at 1/640th of a second you can see some motion blur in her hind legs.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...rSpeed_2sm.jpg
next up...
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Aperture
Your camera’s aperture is made up of thin plates arranged in a circular pattern that can create a circular hole of varying size.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...ture_sizes.jpg
This controls two things, unfortunately at the same time: the amount of light allowed through to the image chip, and depth of field. The amount of light let through is simple. A fast shutter speed combined with a large opening lets the same amount of light in as a slow shutter speed and a small opening.
However, the aperture also controls how much of your field of view is in focus, from back to front. This is called depth of field.
If you’ve ever looked through a little tiny hole, you may have noticed things are more in focus, especially if you wear corrective lenses. The same is true for the aperture. The smaller the hole, the more things are in focus. If the aperture is opened wide, objects in front of or behind the subject will blur out of focus. This is a very important thing to learn how to control because it helps the viewer see the subject as the subject and the background as an ambiguous canvas the subject pops out from. If everything is in focus, the eye sees it all as the subject.
What the numbers mean:
This is where things get hairy. Aperture opening sizes are measured in “f/stops.” (to quote Wikipedia, the numbers are an “approximately geometric sequence of numbers that corresponds to the sequence of the powers of the square root of 2.”) The f/stop is generated relative to your zoom level (focal length), so remember that zoom affects depth of field, too.
The numbers are “backward.” The smaller the f/stop number, the larger the aperture is opened. The smallest and largest your aperture can be set to is different for each camera lens. I’ll use some common numbers:
f/2.8 – Wide opening, letting in a lot of light. Very tight focal depth.
f/5.6 – Still a wide opening, depth of field will increase
f/11 – A smaller opening. Shutter speed will have to be increased. Depth of field is deepened.
f/22 – A very tight opening. Virtually everything will be in focus, especially if zoomed out.
I’ve skipped some numbers on the scale, and your camera may go higher or lower than these numbers. Just remember that a lower number means tighter focus.
Example time:
I convinced my photographer’s assistant, Samantha, to lie motionless on the bed. This was rather easy, she gave no fuss.
These were taken with “Av” mode, meaning “Aperture Value.” Canon just has to be different, huh?
First I set the aperture to f/36, the highest the lens would go. With the corresponding shutter speed of 2.5 full seconds, I used a small tripod and a remote shutter control, known as a “bulb.” Even at f/32, the 80mm focal length makes the tuning head out of focus.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...erture_2sm.jpg
Next I set the aperture to the other extreme, f/5.6. More expensive SLR lenses will have even lower available aperture settings than f/5.6. With this setting, the shutter speed was still slow at 15. The depth of field is extremely shallow. Focused at the middle of the f-hole, it very quickly goes blurry both in the foreground and background.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...erture_1sm.jpg
Next we’ll cover what the pre-set auto shooting modes on cameras do...
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Camera Shooting Modes:
Automatic
The camera will read the whole frame and try to set the aperture and shutter speed so that the exposure balances out to a loverly medium grey. If completely blurred out and colorless, the camera wants the picture to look something like this:
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...Three/Grey.gif
Even on a manual mode, the camera will tell you how close to that even grey you’ll be.
Spot Metering
This will make your camera look only at one small portion of the frame to gauge exposure, instead of the whole thing. This can be useful at music concerts or other places where lighting is limited. You can also go the other way: metering on a person’s face and telling the camera to ignore the bright sky behind them. You can also create silhouettes using this.
Shutter Speed Priority (also “S” or “Tv”)
This allows you to set a shutter speed manually. The camera will then adjust the aperture size to make the right exposure. If you know what shutter speed you want, use this mode.
Aperture Priority (also “A” or “Av”)
This most useful mode is my favorite. You set the aperture and the camera selects the correct shutter speed for the exposure. This allows you to manually control depth of field without having to fiddle with the shutter speed yourself.
Program Mode (semi-automatic)
My Digital Rebel has a wonderful little dial next to the shutter button. Normally this is used on manual modes to control shutter speed or aperture. When on “Program” mode, you can turn the dial to select the shutter speed/aperture combo the camera will use. It resets after each picture, but it’s very convenient when you want to override the settings for one picture without going to full manual. I don’t know what it’s called, but see if you camera has something similar.
Preset Auto Modes:
Portrait Mode
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...ode_Symbol.jpg
The camera will select a large aperture so the subject will be the only thing in focus. You’ll want to be close to your subject and only have one subject. The background-out-of-focus effect works best if the background is farther away.
Landscape Mode
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...ode_Symbol.jpg
The opposite of Portrait Mode, the camera will select a small aperture so as much is in focus as possible.
Sports Mode or Action Mode
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...ode_Symbol.jpg
To capture fast-moving objects, the camera will select a fast shutter speed. This usually means the aperture is wide open, too, so know that your depth of field will be shallow.
Macro Mode
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...ode_Symbol.jpg
Macro used to refer to taking pictures of thing so that the image on the film was the same size as the real-life object. Now it means the ability to focus on things very close to the camera lens. If you have true macro, you may notice your lens extends out much farther than it normally does. This is for that close focus. In any case, your depth of field will be shallow, and avoid using the flash: it will be too bright at such close distances.
Night Mode (also “Slow Shutter Sync”)
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...ode_Symbol.jpg
For night and low-light situations, the camera sets very long shutter speeds and a wide-open aperture. It will also probably use the flash. You’ll be served best by this mode if you use a tripod. You can get some weird and funky stuff if you play around with this mode.
Some cameras will have many more, superfluous shooting modes, such as “Beach,” “Snow,” “Kids & Pets,” “Fireworks,” etc. You can look up what these things do your damn self. Most point-and-shoots now also have movie mode for shooting video. This is cool, but beyond the purview of this class.
Next we’ll discuss how to make your pictures black and white...
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Desaturating Your Pictures
For the next few lessons, I’d like your pictures to be in black and white. There are different ways to do this. Some cameras have a built-in mode that will do this. That’s the easiest way. If you don’t have that feature, or if you want more control of the desaturation, you can do it in post-production.
In Photoshop, if you have it, you can either use the “Desaturate” function under the “Image: Adjustments” menu. Or you can use other methods, like Channel Mixer. You can look up these techniques. I like to look at the channels and pick the one I like.
GIMP has similar tools. The “Desaturate” function in GIMP has three options. I use whichever one give me the highest contrast.
Most image-hosting sites have photo manipulation tools you can use. Somewhere in those there will be a “black & white” button. Hopefully, this button will have some options that will affect the resulting picture’s balance of light and dark. Here’s what it looks like in Photobucket:
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...saturate_3.jpg
You can also find the Saturation slider bar that may be available. In Photobucket, the slider bar controlling lightness is right next to it:
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...saturate_1.jpg
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...saturate_2.jpg
After you change it to black and white, find the controls that adjust contrast, and fiddle with those to create higher contrasts between the light and dark parts of your picture. Not too much, though; just whatever looks good to you.
I convinced my photographer’s assistant, Mushroom, to pose on the table outside. He didn’t get bent out of shape about it. All three of these are the same picture desaturated different ways. The first was desaturated by GIMP, the second by Photobucket, and the third manually by me in GIMP using only the green color channel.
http://s660.photobucket.com/albums/u...Mushroom_3.jpg . . http://s660.photobucket.com/albums/u...Mushroom_2.jpg . . http://s660.photobucket.com/albums/u...Mushroom_1.jpg
I’d show an example from Photoshop, but I just had a hard drive failure and have yet to find my install CD to get it back.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Lesson #3 Assignments
Assignment A: Figure out how to adjust aperture and/or shutter speed with your camera. If you have no manual or priority controls, use the appropriate shooting mode, as described above, to get the desired effect.
The photos for the these assignments should be in black and white:
Assignment B: Take two pictures of a moving object. One picture with a fast shutter speed and one with a slow shutter speed. For shutter speeds slower than 1/60 of a second, use a tripod or set the camera on something solid.
Assignment C: Take two pictures of a scene with an object in the foreground. When focused on the foreground object, take a picture with a low aperture setting and one with a high aperture setting.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Adding a little info to Gary's ISO description....
Back in the day, we had the "Sunny (f/)16" rule. It said something like, "On a bright and sunny day, the correct exposure will be 1/ISO @ f/16." So if you have your ISO set at 400, you should be exposing bright and sunny pictures at 1/400 sec @ f/16. Back when we were using mechanical cameras and the meter batteries died, it gave us some starting point for what correct exposure might be.
If your P/S is like my Canon, you don't have f/16. Mine stops at f/8. I'd have to trade two f/stops for two shutter speeds, i.e. 1/1600 sec at f/8, to follow that rule.
So if you're outdoors and you can't get the shutter speed/aperture combination you want---you want a slow shutter speed to blur action or a wider aperture to limit depth of field--- drop your ISO.
Aperture, shutter speed, and ISO determine the exposure. E.g.:
ISO 400, 1/250, f/4 is the same as
ISO 200, 1/500, f/4, or for that matter
ISO 400, 1/125, f/5.6...and so on (as far as how dark/light the picture will be). Trade a shutter speed for an aperture or an ISO. Trade an aperture for a shutter speed or ISO. Trade an ISO...well, you get the idea. The one that's not intuitive is f/numbers. f/8 is one-fourth the light of f/4. The camera will calculate for you of course. My point is to remember that your ISO is as easily adjusted as shutter speed or aperture to get the shot you want.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
I've had a lot of experience with cameras, so I'm not worried about doing this lesson. I did, however, want to see how the camera and editing programs would render black and white, so I've been goofing around with that. Gary, I don't need this graded but if you have comments feel free.
I didn't shoot them with black and white in mind. What I learned: it's probably a good idea to try for dark, bright, and as much grey as you can get in the original.
First I shot some pictures with my table lamp, which has a compact fluorescent bulb.
"Howzabout a kiss?"
ISO 400, 1/13 sec, f/2.7, 4.6mm.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/P3180005.jpghttp://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...rgoylesBW2.jpg
No flash. Whoa, that went way yellow. Need to adjust for fluorescent? See the first picture of the post...there's some yellow, but not like this. I have a feeling the green of the chair caused the problem, though I'm not sure how.
ISO: 400, Exposure: 1/2 sec, Aperture: 3.2, Focal Length: 6.9mm, Flash Used: No
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/P3190007.jpghttp://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...rgoylesBW9.jpg
Closeup with flash. I like the uber white in contrast to the black of the background. This one has a glazed finish so there was a high chance of glare and the highlights would wash out some detail.
ISO: 400, Exposure: 1/200 sec, Aperture: 2.7, Focal Length: 4.6mm, Flash Used: Yes
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/P3190014.jpghttp://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...goylesBW15.jpg
Ambient light from a window. The very light and very dark figures limited how much I could tweak this.
ISO: 80, Exposure: 1/10 sec, Aperture: 3.0, Focal Length: 5.9mm, Flash Used: No
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/P3190017.jpghttp://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...goylesBW16.jpg
Next, it was off to a dark room. Like most of the above, I used a tripod. I took my small flashlight.
I guessed at how long to shine the light, hoping the aperture priority would take care of the exposure. Still, these needed some help from Picasa. I brought up the highlights and fill light to where I liked them. The partial halo, of course, was created by the flashlight. I really like the sharp arc...maybe I should have placed more of it over the figure. In converting to black and white I cheated and made it blue.
ISO: 200, Exposure: 1/5 sec, Aperture: 3.2, Focal Length: 11.5mm, Flash Used: No
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...IMG_0012-3.jpghttp://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...rgoylesBW4.jpg
Then I went to manual exposure, set the shutter open for 8 seconds and "painted" the figure with the Maglite. I tried one second, two seconds, and so on. I didn't add the color---I just brought up the highlights. Nothing spectacular...could have been made with aflash. So I put a piece of duct tape over the lens of the Maglite and poked a hole in the tape. If I'd had a laser pointer I would have used it, but I don't so I improvised. I like the spotty lighting.
ISO: 200, Exposure: 8.0 sec, Aperture: 3.2, Focal Length: 11.5mm, Flash Used: No
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...s/IMG_0024.jpghttp://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...rgoylesBW6.jpg
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
The chair may have reflected backlighting and modified your color that way.
I'm having my usual problem with this sort of assignment - I can't seem to wrap my head around bigger f-stop = smaller light. That, and my damn camera doesn't seem to show a lot of difference based on the aperture. I shall persevere.
That said, I am mildly annoyed that, although I can do B&W in-camera, I cannot do B&W in-camera at the same time I am operating in AV mode. Alas.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by sistercoyote
The chair may have reflected backlighting and modified your color that way.
I'm having my usual problem with this sort of assignment - I can't seem to wrap my head around bigger f-stop = smaller light. That, and my damn camera doesn't seem to show a lot of difference based on the aperture. I shall persevere.
That said, I am mildly annoyed that, although I can do B&W in-camera, I cannot do B&W in-camera at the same time I am operating in AV mode. Alas.
I didn't realize till I took that picture that I actually have three different fluorescent modes on the camera. IIRC I managed to get a good one with the third setting, but I thought it would be more interesting to post a bad one. Another weird thing: if I shoot under fluorescents (the long sticks) I get a yellow cast. But, if I switch to video mode, it's very well-balanced. Weird.
Technical question: do most/all cameras make color images but show them in b/w or is it actually encoded in black and white in the camera?
WRT apertures...part of the confusion may be in nomenclature. A "large" aperture is a big hole, right? But it's a small f/number (sometimes called f ratio). Focal length / aperture size = f ratio. But many of us are probably in the bad habit of using the terms interchangeably.
Maybe you can think of "zero" (0) as Open. The closer you get to zero on the f/number, the more open it is.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
A few more things:
For Assignment C, the focus control experiment, it will help if the background is at least a few feet away. In the pictures of Mushroom, my photographer’s assistant, the plant in the background is about 5 feet behind the little guy.
Here it is again, and the same shot with a small aperture to see the difference:
http://s660.photobucket.com/albums/u...Mushroom_2.jpg . http://s660.photobucket.com/albums/u..._4-infocus.jpg
Focus control is extra important in black and white photography because the eye can’t use color to distinguish between subject and background.
To reiterate, if you only have pre-set auto modes, set the camera to Portrait Mode to get shallow depth of field, and Landscape Mode to get deep depth of field. For the shutter speed portion, use Sport/Action Mode versus either Night Shot Mode or Landscape Mode. (Since Landscape mode chooses a small aperture, it will have to choose a slow shutter speed to compensate.)
Be sure to try your best to get proper exposure levels. This is easiest if you go outside in the sun.
Class discussion can be about anything related to exposure control.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by lobotomyboy63
...Technical question: do most/all cameras make color images but show them in b/w or is it actually encoded in black and white in the camera?
Good question. It may be both, actually, depending on whether you save in RAW or JPEG. The image chip records red, green, and blue light in three separate channels. You can see these individually in Photoshop or GIMP. Black and White mode may average them all out, or it may just take one channel. I’ll look into it or wait for a more technical poster comes along...
Quote:
Originally posted by lobotomyboy63
WRT apertures...part of the confusion may be in nomenclature. A "large" aperture is a big hole, right? But it's a small f/number (sometimes called f ratio). Focal length / aperture size = f ratio. But many of us are probably in the bad habit of using the terms interchangeably.
Maybe you can think of "zero" (0) as Open. The closer you get to zero on the f/number, the more open it is.
This is a good thing to remember. Thanks for the tip.
Everyone, say thank you to lobotomyboy63. [garygnu waits for class to simultaneously drone “thank you, lobotomyboy63.” in a bored monotone...]
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Thank you, lobotomyboy63. garygnu, I didn't get my homework for last lesson done, but I'll try to be sure and do this one.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
Everyone, say thank you to lobotomyboy63. [/size][garygnu waits for class to simultaneously drone “thank you, lobotomyboy63.” in a bored monotone...][/color]
[monotone]Thank you lobotomyboy63[/monotone]
;)
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
Quote:
Originally posted by lobotomyboy63
...Technical question: do most/all cameras make color images but show them in b/w or is it actually encoded in black and white in the camera?
Good question. It may be both, actually, depending on whether you save in RAW or JPEG. The image chip records red, green, and blue light in three separate channels. You can see these individually in Photoshop or GIMP. Black and White mode may average them all out, or it may just take one channel. I’ll look into it or wait for a more technical poster comes along...
Thing is, if you can get the same results with your software in the computer, it seems silly to store two shots on your card (and possibly wait twice as long for them to store). And sometimes, the color looks better than the B&W and sometimes not...better to decide later, viewing on a bigger screen. But it might be useful as a "preview" kind of thing.
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
Quote:
Originally posted by lobotomyboy63
WRT apertures...part of the confusion may be in nomenclature. A "large" aperture is a big hole, right? But it's a small f/number (sometimes called f ratio). Focal length / aperture size = f ratio. But many of us are probably in the bad habit of using the terms interchangeably.
Maybe you can think of "zero" (0) as Open. The closer you get to zero on the f/number, the more open it is.
This is a good thing to remember. Thanks for the tip.
Everyone, say thank you to lobotomyboy63. [garygnu waits for class to simultaneously drone “thank you, lobotomyboy63.” in a bored monotone...]
Aw, shucks. Also think of the 0 as "less depth of field/smaller zone of focus." Usually depth of field is something people want and smaller numbers mean you'll be getting less of it.
I don't know if you planned to mention it in the "History" portion, Gary, but manufacturers set up instamatics to have a fast shutter speed and a small aperture (large f/number) on a wide-ish angle lens. The fast shutter froze action. The lens was prefocused at a given distance and the large f/number gave depth of field from a few feet to infinity. If you were within a couple EV of correct exposure, the latitude of the film would give a printable negative. But you had to be outdoors on a fairly sunny day or resort to flash. Given the low price, millions were happy enough with the compromises.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
I take a lot of pictures of jewelry and I'd like them look as nice as possible, so I'll be using my jewelry taking set up a lot for this class I think. Here's Assignment B (Assignment C will have to wait until I get to see the outside and the sun. I'll do my other favorite subject-- my garden)
All are in Tv mode. All with tripod.
The camera chose f1.7 the shutter speed is 3.22 seconds (the camera was very 'busy')
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t7shutter3.jpg
The camera chose f2.8 shutter speed 1/3
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...tter1over3.jpg
I ran into trouble with the faster shutter speeds
f2.8 (max for camera) 1/101
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...er1over101.jpg
f2.8 shutter 1/40
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ter1over40.jpg
The really slow speed made even the stationary pendant look blurry. Looks like if I want absolutely no movement, I'm gonna need a lot more light.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Let me also thank gary for explaining aperture and shutter speed so clearly even a dullard like me can understand. I've read manuals and on-line 'how to take great pictures' sites and the most I ever got from them is "if I set my camera on these numbers, I should get something nice" without ever understanding why. Not the sites or manual's fault but my own thick skull.
Thanks again for penetrating it.
Oh and, thanks too lobby!
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Biggirl, what ISO were you shooting with? Raising it may cost you some sharpness in terms of noise, but it may be worth it.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by lobotomyboy63
Biggirl, what ISO were you shooting with? Raising it may cost you some sharpness in terms of noise, but it may be worth it.
I don't know and I'd have to do some research to find out how to find out. My jewelry is usually motionless when I shoot it, though and I always use a tripod.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
Quote:
Originally posted by lobotomyboy63
Biggirl, what ISO were you shooting with? Raising it may cost you some sharpness in terms of noise, but it may be worth it.
I don't know and I'd have to do some research to find out how to find out. My jewelry is usually motionless when I shoot it, though and I always use a tripod.
In some cases, if you right click on the image on your computer it will show you. Mine won't. I upload to Picasa sometimes and there's an "info" link, which gives a lot of that.
It could be that the jewelry isn't moving---your camera is. I know, tripod: if you trip the shutter like you would a normal camera, there can be some wiggling. That becomes more pronounced as you go close up because it's magnified more optically. Also with a wide f/1.7 or 2.8, you have precious little depth of field: it may be that it isn't moving, but rather, it's out of focus.
You might try setting up the shot, then putting it on self-timer. Then you push the shutter, there's a delay (camera stops jiggling) and camera trips itself. Remember, releasing the shutter also shakes the camera.
I'd guess your ISO was also low. If you plan to make prints (especially enlargements), the lower the better. Otherwise try it at ISO 400. You can go higher but you start getting a lot of noise.
You can also introduce light to the situation. Flash may be too harsh but you can use room light, check the white balance till you get what you like. Also you can often bounce light back with a white board or some aluminum foil.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
It's not in the picture info-- I looked. I'm sure it's somewhere in the menu on my camera. Thing is there are many, many pictures and precious few words in the menu on the camera. I'm sure I've seen the letters ISO under one of the submenus-- the wrench one or the head with a camera one-- and all I gotta do is find the manual on line.
The pics above were also not shot in macro, which makes for much nicer jewelry pictures.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
It's not in the picture info-- I looked. I'm sure it's somewhere in the menu on my camera. Thing is there are many, many pictures and precious few words in the menu on the camera. I'm sure I've seen the letters ISO under one of the submenus-- the wrench one or the head with a camera one-- and all I gotta do is find the manual on line.
The pics above were also not shot in macro, which makes for much nicer jewelry pictures.
I have a Powershot as well, but a different model.
To view what settings the camera used, I play back the picture. Then I press the "Display" button.
To set the ISO, I have a "bullseye" sort of button on the back. In the center (the "donut hole") is "Function set." I push that and it brings up a menu to choose ISO.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
You can manually set the ISO on a PowerShot A85 under the Function button (labeled “FUNC.”). You should see an ISO Setting listed under there. See more info on control options in this review.
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Assignment C
I have some ideas for assignment B, but I have to coordinate with a couple of other people, first.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3466/...a8ae52f2_m.jpg
Shot using AV with super macro, holding the aperture at: f2.8
Camera set the shutter: 1/50
I also had to fight the camera to get it to focus on the foreground instead of the background
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3653/...cb9848ba_m.jpg
Shot using AV and super macro, holding the aperture at f2.8
Camera set the shutter: 1/40
Again with the convincing the camera to focus on the foreground
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3444/...62555b18_m.jpg
Shot using AV and manual focus, holding the aperture at f2.8
Camera set the shutter: 1/160
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/...517d4014_m.jpg
Shot using AV and no other settings, holding the aperture at f7.8 (the maximum my camera would give me)
Camera set the shutter: 1/20
That last picture is a perfect example of a problem I have all the time with this camera: it wants to focus on the background, not the foreground. It's very exasperating. (Yes, I realize this is probably an example of operator error. Nonetheless.)
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
You can manually set the ISO on a PowerShot A85 under the Function button (labeled “FUNC.”). You should see an ISO Setting listed under there. See more info on control options in this review.
You are an effin great teacher. You and your assistant lobby. They should pay you guys more.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
You can manually set the ISO on a PowerShot A85 under the Function button (labeled “FUNC.”). You should see an ISO Setting listed under there. See more info on control options in this review.
You are an effin great teacher. You and your assistant
lobby. They should pay you guys more.
Thanks. 8-) They keep promising raises without following through. I may get tenure soon, though...
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Assignment B
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Still no sunshine so an inside job. the background is out of focus as requested.
Fuji f-10, manual, ISO 80, timer, camera balanced on the monitor, 1/4sec. at f 2.8. Brightness, Contrast & Gama adjusted in Irfanview.
http://dragon43.googlepages.com/selfthumb.jpg
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Assignment B, take two.
The same set up with different ISO speeds. The originals were at 50.
Here is ISO at 100, shutter speed 1/15
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5iso100f28.jpg
Here is ISO 200 shutter speed 1/60
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...0oneover60.jpg
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Hit submit too fast-- twice!
Anyway, I think I'll leave it at ISO 100. 200 looks awful.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
You can manually set the ISO on a PowerShot A85 under the Function button (labeled “FUNC.”). You should see an ISO Setting listed under there. See more info on control options in this review.
You are an effin great teacher. You and your assistant
lobby. They should pay you guys more.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, by the way. This is the first time I've actually understood what aperture is doing for the camera, and how to use it, and I've taken three separate meatspace photo classes.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by sistercoyote
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
You can manually set the ISO on a PowerShot A85 under the Function button (labeled “FUNC.”). You should see an ISO Setting listed under there. See more info on control options in this review.
You are an effin great teacher. You and your assistant
lobby. They should pay you guys more.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, by the way. This is the first time I've actually
understood what aperture is doing for the camera, and how to use it, and I've taken three separate meatspace photo classes.
Hey, happy to help. Someone will have to stop me when I get going on the technical stuff sometimes, but when we get to composition, I'll suddenly go quiet :mrgreen:
Biggirl, I'm surprised that you're not getting better results. Assuming you're in aperture preferred, I'm not sure why the camera traded two shutter speeds for one ISO change. It could be rounding error or a change in lighting. Hmm.
I wonder if the background is a problem. For one thing, as I think Gary mentioned upthread, the meter is trying to render everything 18% gray. Take the cardboard backing from a legal pad---that's an approximation of 18% gray. I can't tell if your background is black---it looks it---but in any event, dark colors absorb light rather than reflect it. Your light meter won't detect much reflected light because there isn't much (primarily what's coming off the jewelry, which is a tiny fraction of the image). It's going to give really long exposures to try to make the black into grey.
Another issue: the autofocus may not have enough reflected light to focus well. Then you're not sure what it's really focused on.
If you enjoy photographing jewelry and/or plan to do a lot of it, I'd experiment with different color backgrounds. If you plan to put them in B/W, I'd familiarize yourself with how they "translate" in a B/W image.
And finally, odds are that your lens is achromatic. Here comes some really technical stuff that I don't completely understand myself.
When you get to the far end of the spectrum (red or violet in the ROY G BIV scheme of things), you can run into focusing problems because those wavelengths don't focus at the same point (i.e. on the sensor). Beyond those---infrared and ultraviolet---you buy special film and adjust focus with 35mms.
That's why there are apochromatic lenses, which focus all wavelengths at the same point. Anyway, the takeaway here is that if you're shooting on a red background, you may be asking for trouble. For more reading if you're so inclined and good at physics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apochromat
Here again is the 50mm normal lens from my 35mm Minolta.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...e/DOF002-1.jpg
That band that says 22 16 8 4...that shows how the zone of focus expands. I have it focused at about 12 feet. If you're using f/8, your zone will be about 9 to 17 feet. If you're using f/22, it will be about 6 feet to infinity. And the red dot between 4/8 on the right? That's how far you shift focus for infrared film.
Since some are still mastering the depth of field issue, I'll recap:
To get more depth of field (a wider zone of focus):
1) wide angle
2) small aperture (high f/number)
3) focus farther away, nearer infinity (where light rays become parallel and indistinguishably far to the camera)
To get less depth of field (a narrower zone of focus):
1) telephoto
2) a large aperture (small f/number, closer to 0)
3) focus nearer (macro being the extreme...look at closeup floral images already posted to illustrate)
Remember, there can be multiple whammies. Like if you're in telephoto macro, you're losing depth of field "twice." And of course all the other things, like possible camera shake, still apply.
You'll find yourself in situations where maybe you want a low shutter speed to blur motion or a small aperture for max depth of field. Remember, you can still change your ISO to help you achieve that.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
You could also just add more light. I have three desklamps that I use for extra light during interior photo shoots, particularly macro shots.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/Desklamp.jpg
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
You could also just add more light. I have three desklamps that I use for extra light during interior photo shoots, particularly macro shots.
A good tip, although just in general I need to get more lights for my house. ;)
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Am I going to be a problem child? Crafty type project in progress using Av priority.
f2.8 shutter 1/50
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1overfifty.jpg
f8 shutter 1/5
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...shut1over5.jpg
2.8 and 8 are the upper and lower limits on my camera. I don't see much difference. Too many focal points? Need to put foreground foregroundier?
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
In the first picture, the background looks sharper. In the second, the foreground looks sharper. I think your AF used two different points to focus on.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
I’m still waiting for assignments to be turned in by:
featherlou
NAF1138
Art Rock
SmartAleq
NinetyWt
troubleagain
Giles
ulfhjorr
MisterDiskord
Clayton_e
longPath
Cyberhwk
Dangerously Unqualified
I've gotten photos from:
Biggirl
sistercoyote
Dragon
Thank you.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
I always did wait until the night before. So far I've only got Assignment C done. Being a single guy with no kids or pets and living in a cul-de-sac with no traffic I'm having a tough time finding a moving subject. Took some of a clock in the house, but the pics are so boring I'm not going to subject anybody do them.
But here's Assignment C:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...k/DSC01706.jpg
F2.5, 1/20 sec, ISO-100, Exposure Bias -1, Focal Length 21mm, Metering: Center Weighted Average.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...k/DSC01705.jpg
F7.1, 1/2 sec, ISO-100, Exposure Bias -1, Focal Length 21mm, Metering: Center Weighted Average.
Comments: These came out underexposed. I added the exposure bias because it looked significantly lighter on my LCD when I took the pictures. Ended up being a mistake. Pretty hard to expose due to the high contrast figures anyway.
I'll see if I can find something better than a clock pendulum by the end of the weekend.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Okay, okay, I been busy! :lol:
I do have one question--I went through every single preset mode on my P/S, took the same picture and checked the details on them--I get different exposure times and ISO readings but the F-stop is always 2.7, so what's up with that? Is it really always the same? Weird...
Anyway--here's photo #1, I used one of the preset modes, I think it was the text setting for no flash, long exposure time. The photo has been desaturated and cropped. Linked to larger size.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3591/...a1af39c895.jpg
f/2.7, 1/59 sec, ISO 80, exp bias +1 step, desaturated, cropped
Photo #2, used sports/action mode for faster exposure:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/...273e027b_m.jpg
f/2.7, 1/512 sec exp, ISO 800, sports/action mode, desaturated, cropped.
Photo #3, similar to above but a bit more dynamic:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3453/...43e8ae8b6a.jpg
f/2.7, 1/512 sec exp, ISO 671, desaturated, cropped, used sports/action mode.
Closeups--I found a very perfectly in flower trillium and precariously balanced myself across a tiny stream to get a good closeup on it:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3548/...6b667a7388.jpg
f/2.7, exp 1/209 sec, ISO-80, desaturated, close up setting.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3580/...f77ef4d9_m.jpg
f/2.7, exp 1/64 sec, no flash, ISO 98, desaturated, closeup setting
If anyone would like to check out the uncropped color versions of these shots, the album is here.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
On review, I decided that I like the composition on this one better than the other two--better balance or something...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3559/...d7a3c1e00b.jpg
Don't mind me, I'm being random... ;)
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
Quote:
Originally posted by lobotomyboy63
...Technical question: do most/all cameras make color images but show them in b/w or is it actually encoded in black and white in the camera?
Good question. It may be both, actually, depending on whether you save in RAW or JPEG. The image chip records red, green, and blue light in three separate channels. You can see these individually in Photoshop or GIMP. Black and White mode may average them all out, or it may just take one channel. I’ll look into it or wait for a more technical poster comes along...
A RAW file, to my knowledge (I can't think of an exception), always contains all the red, green, and blue color channel information, with settings, white balance, etc., stored as metadata. A black-and-white JPEG or TIFF stored on your camera starts as a raw capture, is fed through the camera's image processor, and is saved as a black-and-white JPEG. You cannot eke the original information out of this file, as it is destroyed.
There is no good reason I can see to shoot black-and-white in-camera, unless you absolutely have no time or software to make a black-and-white conversion, or if you really like your camera's black-and-white conversion algorithm (which, if you're shooting RAW and using your camera's proprietary software can be duplicated.) By keeping your colors, you have a lot more control over the black-and-white conversion process. For example, if you have a red and green sweater of equal luminance (brightness), if you do a simple desaturation in Photoshop (which is generally one of the worst ways of converting a color image to black-and-white, if not the worst), they both come out as the same shade of gray. When you have the color info, you're able to bias towards certain colors (just like real black and white film), so you can make reds in your photo darker and greens brighter, for instance. So shoot in color, covert to black-and-white later.
[Technical information for those interested. Pay no attention unless you really want to know the technical nitty-gritty about this stuff. Don't let it distract you: Image>Adjustments>Desaturate in Photoshop mixes each channel equally (33%R, 33%G, 33%B) when making a black-and-white image. Convert>Greyscale biases towards green, at a 30%R, 59%G, 11%B mix. And Image>Adjustments>Black & White defaults to 40%R, 40%G, 20%B). Using Image>Adjustments>Black & White or Image>Adjustments>Channel Mixer gives you the most control over making pure black-and-white images, and is, in my opinion, the best way of doing so. A quick-and-dirty way of making a decent black-and-white is to go into LAB in Photoshop and pull out the L channel. If you have Photoshop and want to see the differences in action, open up a blank file, say 800x800 pixels, make a square, fill it with pure red (255R,0G,0B), and repeat for a green square and a blue square. Try Desaturate and see what happens. Try Convert>Greyscale. Try Image>Adjustments>Black & White. Note the vast differences.)
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by SmartAleq
I do have one question--I went through every single preset mode on my P/S, took the same picture and checked the details on them--I get different exposure times and ISO readings but the F-stop is always 2.7, so what's up with that? Is it really always the same? Weird...
You must have your ISO set to Auto, which lets the camera choose which ISO to use on each shot. I never use that because it may choose ISOs over 400, at which point the picture quality is probably going to tank due to noise. I generally shoot at ISO 400 and change when only lighting requires it (shutter speeds getting too high or whatever).
As for the f/2.7, if you were in aperture priority and set f/2.7, maybe it keeps the last user setting as its default for other modes. I notice the camera is electing to change ISOs instead of the aperture. Try manually changing the aperture to something else, shoot in different modes, and see if all other pictures come back with that aperture.
That doesn't make sense for modes that must be aimed at giving more depth of field, though. Maybe the program's overwhelming bias is to freeze action, i.e. use the biggest aperture to ensure the highest shutter speed.
@pulykamell: thanks for the technical info. I wondered how many would shoot something in black and white only later to wish they could retrieve the color info either to make a color image or to make a better black and white.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Now that you mention it lob, I do see that thef2.8 shows a much more detailed "find the bird" pattern on those awful background cushions in much sharper detail than the f8 one. I need someone to point this stuff out to me because I'm. . . not as sharp as some.
I think a much more stark contrast could have been made if I could have kept the shutter speed constant. My camera did a lot of compensating. 1/5 shutter speed as compared to 1/50
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
Now that you mention it lob, I do see that thef2.8 shows a much more detailed "find the bird" pattern on those awful background cushions in much sharper detail than the f8 one. I need someone to point this stuff out to me because I'm. . . not as sharp as some.
I had to study it some before noticing. Look at the "claw like" thing in front of the disc in the foreground...it's sharper at f/8. Anyway, DOF will probably show up more dramatically when you look at larger image sizes because the brain tends to "fill in" detail that isn't really there.
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
I think a much more stark contrast could have been made if I could have kept the shutter speed constant. My camera did a lot of compensating. 1/5 shutter speed as compared to 1/50
WRT contrast, what might look like a variety to your eye because you're seeing in color doesn't always translate that way in B/W. If you manipulate highlights and shadows you may get results you like better.
WRT exposure, your camera is probably not off by that much.
f/8@.2 sec
f/5.6@.4 sec=
f/4@.8 sec=
f/2.8@.16 sec vs. f/2.8 @ .2 (i.e.1/5) sec.
Slight variations in the framing, ambient light, and rounding values could explain it.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Ok, I am extremely discouraged. I tried to take some photos in Landscape mode, so the camera would use a slower shutter speed, and in Sports mode, to use a faster speed, but it just doesn't work.
There is no way to set either the shutter speed or aperture on this camera. (Kodak Easyshare C713).
:(
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by NinetyWt
Ok, I am extremely discouraged. I tried to take some photos in Landscape mode, so the camera would use a slower shutter speed, and in Sports mode, to use a faster speed, but it just doesn't work.
There is no way to set either the shutter speed or aperture on this camera. (Kodak Easyshare C713).
:(
I'm feeling your pain--mine's a C813 and it's similarly inflexible. If you have those silly modes,try text or manner/museum, both of those are slow shutter speeds--so are the "night" modes. Aperture is apparently something we don't need to bother our pretty little heads over. :roll:
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
I took all these neat photos while I was up at my dad's this weekend. I get back home and discover the camera didn't do what I thought it was going to. Grrrrrrr.
< ------- That's why I'm ridin' my broom. :evil:
I will try that SmarAleq, thanks.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
You might find this useful--it's all the modes on my camera, in order, with what the camera says the settings were at the time. All photos are of the same subject, same light, taken within minutes of each other. Disregard the "0850-" numbers, those are corresponding to frame numbers in the folder... It looks for all the world like the silly camera adjusts everything by exposure speed and ISO, not aperture. Oh yeah, the "flash" comment is denoting the settings where the flash wanted to go off...
text (bear) #0850--f/2/7, 1/4 sec exp, ISO 200
fireworks 0851--f/2.7, 1/13 sec, ISO 400
flower 0852--f/2/7, 1/8 sec, ISO 200
manner/museum 0853--f/2.7, 1/8 sec, ISO 800
self portrait flash 0854--f/2.7, 1/64 sec, ISO 80
children flash 0855--f/2.7, 1/512 sec, ISO 400
backlight flash 0856--f/2.7, 1/64 sec, ISO 200
sunset 0857--f/2.7, 1/8 sec, ISO 80
high iso flash 0858--f/2.7, 1/64 sec, ISO 800
portrait flash 0859--f/2.7. 1/64 sec, ISO 80
sport flash 0860--f/2.7, 1/512 sec, ISO 800
landscape 0861--f/2.7, 1/8 sec, ISO 200
night portrait flash 0862--f/2.7, 1/2 sec, ISO 200
night landscape 0863--f/2.7, 2 sec, ISO 80
snow flash 0864--f/2.7, 1/32 sec, ISO 200
beach flash 0865--f/2.7, 1/32 sec, ISO 200
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by NinetyWt
It's a good illustration of shutter speed...? Look at how much more blurry the pinwheel is in the second shot. If your camera would let you go down another shutter speed, it would be still more blurry. BTW I was looking at your Kodak's features on cnet, Ninety. My sympathies.
FWIW, I think as soon as you try to be creative---blurring something, for instance---you're going against the grain of automation. They strive to make cameras that don't allow for anything to be out of focus, blurred, and so on. Little do they know the artistry we're trying to unleash on the world! ;)
But seriously, one definition of art that I heard is, "Breaking the rules and getting away with it." Simply put, your camera doesn't want to let you break them. So you need to lie to your camera.
My Canon will usually go along with my plans. I guess they acknowledge my ah, big fat manly head or something. My Olympus cost less and is less cooperative. There are ways to navigate around a few things but believe me, there are still plenty of stumbling blocks.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by SmartAleq
You might find this useful--it's all the modes on my camera, in order, with what the camera says the settings were at the time. All photos are of the same subject, same light, taken within minutes of each other. Disregard the "0850-" numbers, those are corresponding to frame numbers in the folder... It looks for all the world like the silly camera adjusts everything by exposure speed and ISO, not aperture. Oh yeah, the "flash" comment is denoting the settings where the flash wanted to go off...
text (bear) #0850--f/2/7, 1/4 sec exp, ISO 200 f/2.7, 1/15 sec @ ISO 800
fireworks 0851--f/2.7, 1/13 sec, ISO 400 f/2.7, 1/30 sec at ISO 800
flower 0852--f/2/7, 1/8 sec, ISO 200 f/2.7, 1/30 sec at ISO 800
manner/museum 0853--f/2.7, 1/8 sec, ISO 800
self portrait flash 0854--f/2.7, 1/64 sec, ISO 80 f/5.6, 1/65 sec, ISO 320
children flash 0855--f/2.7, 1/512 sec, ISO 400 f/5.6, 1/125, ISO 400
backlight flash 0856--f/2.7, 1/64 sec, ISO 200 f/4, 1/64, ISO 400
sunset 0857--f/2.7, 1/8 sec, ISO 80 f/2.7, 1/30 sec, ISO 320
high iso flash 0858--f/2.7, 1/64 sec, ISO 800
portrait flash 0859--f/2.7. 1/64 sec, ISO 80
sport flash 0860--f/2.7, 1/512 sec, ISO 800
landscape 0861--f/2.7, 1/8 sec, ISO 200
night portrait flash 0862--f/2.7, 1/2 sec, ISO 200
night landscape 0863--f/2.7, 2 sec, ISO 80
snow flash 0864--f/2.7, 1/32 sec, ISO 200
beach flash 0865--f/2.7, 1/32 sec, ISO 200
I really have to think you're in Automatic ISO, SmartAleq. If you set it at ISO 400, you should see some aperture changes.
A rule of thumb from the 35mm days: use at least 1/focal length as your shutter speed to avoid shake. So if you're using a 50mm (normal) lens, you want at least 1/50 sec or else you may have blurring.
Cameras are much lighter now so even if you translate the focal lengths to 35mm equivalents, I don't think we need to be as careful. Still, I don't like shooting handheld under 1/30 of a second, especially in macro or telephoto. I don't like shooting at ISO 800 but if flash isn't an option, sometimes there may be no choice. In any event, I posted some equivalent combinations that the camera could have chosen (red=mine). Take away the camera's choice of ISO.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
WYSIWYG--this POS doesn't allow me to specify ISO, or aperture, or pretty much any goddamned thing. Dammit, I want a DSLR so bad I can taste it! My poor old Fuji SLR bit the bag and is literally not repairable, parts can not be found... Grr...
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by SmartAleq
WYSIWYG--this POS doesn't allow me to specify ISO, or aperture, or pretty much any goddamned thing. Dammit, I want a DSLR so bad I can taste it! My poor old Fuji SLR bit the bag and it literally not repairable, parts can not be found... Grr...
I think I found you both some help...it says this applies to the 713 and 813. Lemme know:
Press the Menu button.
Press to highlight a setting, then press OK.
Choose an option, then press OK.
(It goes self timer, then exposure compensation, then picture size, then white balance, then ISO.)
Choose a lower ISO setting in brightly lit scenes; use a higher ISO for low-light scenes. Choose Auto (default), 80, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1250.
NOTE: ISO returns to Auto when the camera is set to Portrait or SCN mode.
Unavailable in Video mode.
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/ ... 1887/11889
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Nope, it's lying, those options are not part of any menu on this camera--if they were, I'd be all over it!
ETA: Whoops, hold the phone--that stuff does show up, but only when the dial is on certain settings... Huh, learn something new every day! Thanks!
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by SmartAleq
Nope, it's lying, those options are not part of any menu on this camera--if they were, I'd be all over it!
ETA: Whoops, hold the phone--that stuff does show up, but only when the dial is on certain settings... Huh, learn something new every day! Thanks!
Hey, no prob...I'm still finding features on my cameras as well ;)
That setup is about bizarre though. So you can set ISO 400 but then if you switch to portrait or SCN, it goes back to Auto ISO? Sounds like when you leave portrait or SCN, you have to go back and reset ISO...every time. Drag.
I wonder what's so special about portrait and SCN that the camera doesn't trust you to select the ISO. Ah well, at least you can exercise some control in certain modes.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Yeah, but what it's REALLY telling me is that I need a good camera... ;)
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
lobotomyboy, I have read all that, thanks, back when we were in Lesson #1. It's just so dang hard to keep it all straight. Thanks anyway.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
By setting the ISO at the extremes of 1250 and 80, I was able to get the aperture and shutter speeds to cooperate somewhat. Garygnu, I'd like to use these for my 'homework' because they were taken in the camera's black-and-white mode, whereas the pinwheels were changed to black-and-white by using the Kodak software.
Moving object:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...f2_70_80-1.jpg shutter 1/84, f2.70, ISO 80
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8..._80_1250-1.jpg 1/395, f4.80, ISO 1250
Stationary object:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...f2_70_80-1.jpg shutter 1/407, f2.70, ISO 80
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8..._80_1250-1.jpg shutter 1/1401, f4.80, ISO 1250
I can see that the slower shutter speed gives more detail, and the faster speed can 'stop' the windchime's pendulum.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by NinetyWt
lobotomyboy, I have read all that, thanks, back when we were in Lesson #1. It's just so dang hard to keep it all straight. Thanks anyway.
My bad!
@SmartAleq: you need to work on your rationalizations.
1) If a small child in your family has always wanted a camera (or looks like he might have once *said* the word "camera"), you can pass along the Kodak. After all...
2) You're serious about photography and need a better tool for learning. Or maybe
3) you'll be keeping the Kodak as your
A) back up camera, in case the new one needs repair, or
B) your "bad conditions" camera, like for the beach where you wouldn't want to damage your new camera, or
C) the camera you carry in your car in case you need to photograph a traffic accident etc.
Hey, it isn't wasting money if the new camera is a good deal. If it's on sale, you'd practically be WASTING money not to buy it.
How'm I doing? :mrgreen:
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Dayum, dawg, you've done this before, haven't you? Nicely played, sir! :lol:
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Buy used on eBay. With research and patience, you should be able to get a good deal.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
I never "officially" signed up for the class but I participated in the first lesson so I plan on continuing.
Unfortunately like some others my less-than-amazing camera only allows me to go from f2.8 to f8.0. Not a huge range but I can clearly see the difference in these shots, particularly looking at the Starbucks logo on the building in the background, which is much clearer with the more narrow aperture.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3473/...efda4f.jpg?v=0
This is at f2.8
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3575/...51b89d.jpg?v=0
And here it is at f8.0, the background is definitely sharper.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3449/...29df0a.jpg?v=0
Passing traffic at 1/1000th of a second shutter speed
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/...dcdbb4.jpg?v=0
Traffic at 1/20th of a second shutter speed. Not only is it obviously blurry but way overexposed. Interesting!
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Okay, second half of assignment (I'm having trouble finding a moving subject - I'll see if Jim will run around for me when he gets home :) ) -
With flash - sport setting -
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...HPIM3795-1.jpg
With flash - landscape setting -
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...HPIM3796-1.jpg
No flash - sport setting -
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...HPIM3801-1.jpg
No flash - landscape setting -
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...HPIM3802-1.jpg
Someone who insisted on being part of the assignment -
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...HPIM3809-1.jpg
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
I just got back from a trip to Chaco Canyon (Yay me!) While they are not shots for the assignment, I wanted to share these as a good example of Stops. Again, a stop is the doubling of the amount of light passing through the lens. The shots are of our fire and tent at night. They are all at ISO200 and f4.
Four secondshttp://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...thGX0U1606.jpg
Eight secondshttp://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...thGX0U1605.jpg
Fifteen secondshttp://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...thGX0U1604.jpg
Thirty secondshttp://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...thGX0U1602.jpg
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Good God, chacoguy the JPEG compression on those is horrendous. Is that really Photobucket's doing, as you implied in the "Look, up in the sky" thread? If so, you might want to find a different place to host your images for the photo class threads.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by McNutty
Good God, chacoguy the JPEG compression on those is horrendous. Is that really Photobucket's doing, as you implied in the "Look, up in the sky" thread? If so, you might want to find a different place to host your images for the photo class threads.
I've noticed that too. Do you have any suggestions? Please PM me with any ideas.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Well, you could try Flickr. However, I now see that others here are using Photobucket without problem, so maybe it's your camera settings or something you're doing to the photos while resizing.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
I think that since the photos seem to be in the 25KB range that he is over compressing them or maybe copying a very small part of the image and blowing it up?????
If I have a picture that starts out about 300 to 700 KB from the camera and I reduce it to 400 X 300 pixels to post it online, I try to keep the KB's around 100.
Or it might be something totally different...
How are you post processing the pictures? With what? At what settings?
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Okay, the first half of my assignment.
My lovely assistant, moving his arms with regular flash and speed settings.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/HPIM3819.jpg
My lovely assistant, moving his arms with the sports setting.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/HPIM3820.jpg
I dunno; maybe he wasn't moving them fast enough? I don't see much difference.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
feather, your lovely assistant seems so happy assisting you. If I asked my lovely assistant to wave his arms around while I took his picture, he'd roll his eyes at me. I'm sure I could get him to do it but he wouldn't look so content.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by featherlou
Looks like you're using flash. In that case, it's the flash that's freezing the motion, not the shutter speed.
If you're having trouble following, just do this thought experiment. Imagine a pitch black room. In this room, you have a fan with whirling blades or some other object. Since it's pitch black, you need to use flash to take a picture of this fan. So, think about it. If you set your shutter speed to five seconds or 1/250 second and use flash, will there be any difference in the exposure? No. Assuming a room with no other light, both exposures will be equal, as the only light will be provided by the flash, and the flash duration is something like, 1/5000 of second (it can be anywhere from 1/200 sec to 1/20,000 second). Whether your shutter is opened for 1/250 second or 5 seconds, it doesn't matter, since the light itself is 1/5000 second and both exposures capture the entirety of that light, and there is no additional light (the room being pitch black) that could affect your exposure.
This is similar to what's going on in your pictures. In essence, your flash is providing all the light in the image, thus, given a flash's short duration, it freezes the movement.
Now, you could combine flash and ambient light and get blurring and ghosting effects. If your camera has a setting for flash called "Slow sync" or "Rear-curtain sync" try the flash photos using those modes. Alternately, set your camera to manual, ISO 400, 1/8 of a second, f/4 and take the same photos as above with flash. You will see some blurring now (I'm making a complete guess as to the exposure. You might want to try a range of exposures from 1/2 to 1/30 of a second. I'm assuming a somewhat dim room.)
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
I didn't get to this until after the light was already fading, so there are no actual *good* photos in the bunch. But it was fun seeing what effects I got with the different aperature settings, and I learned how to set them, which I didn't know before! Yay!
Exposure: 0.8
Aperture: f/4.5
Focal Length: 26 mm
ISO Speed: 400
Exposure Bias: +1 EV
Flash: Off
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3544/...41c516f8_m.jpg
0.077 sec (1/13)
Aperture: f/4.5
Focal Length: 26 mm
ISO Speed: 400
Exposure Bias: -1 EV
Flash: Off
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3597/...7d2ba300_m.jpg
Exposure: 0.2 sec (1/5)
Aperture: f/5.6
Focal Length: 22 mm
ISO Speed: 400
Exposure Bias: +1 EV
Flash: Off
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3640/...a9be417c_m.jpg
Exposure: 0.6
Aperture: f/5.6
Focal Length: 26 mm
ISO Speed: 400
Exposure Bias: +2 EV
Flash: Off
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/...f6d51c00_m.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/troubleaga ... 193324316/
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
The purpose of these assignments is to demonstrate what happens with different combinations of aperture and shutter speeds. It appears from some of the results that some cameras would rather fiddle with the ISO setting than change aperture or shutter speed, which kinda sucks.
Anyway...
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
I take a lot of pictures of jewelry and I'd like them look as nice as possible, so I'll be using my jewelry taking set up a lot for this class I think. Here's Assignment B...
[snip]
The really slow speed made even the stationary pendant look blurry. Looks like if I want absolutely no movement, I'm gonna need a lot more light.
Yes, more light. Smaller, less expensive point-and-shoot cameras are well known to be poor low-light performers. Gather some lamps or find a window.
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
Am I going to be a problem child? Crafty type project in progress using Av priority...
As was noted, the focus is in the background, so you may have been too close.
Good job overall.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
Finally got some sun... Pictures are thumbnails....
[snip]
Do you notice that the background looks sharper in the thumbnail? This is due to the smaller size of things.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
Finally got some sun... Pictures are thumbnails....
[snip]
Do you notice that the background looks sharper in the thumbnail? This is due to the smaller size of things.
Yepper, IMO, that is one reason to shoot at the highest Megapixel setting you have if it does not slow down the recycling speed too much. I have saved some pictures by taking them down to 400 pixels on the long side so that they are viewable on a computer monitor for sending to family etc.
I hate people who up load pictures that are over 700 - 800 on the long side for just internet computer viewing. Wastes everything including my time and are a PITA to try to view and just proves how lazy they are or unwilling to learn even the simplest things about what they are doing..... ::: Grump ::: And get off my lawn while you're at it !!! :::
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
I hate people who up load pictures that are over 700 - 800 on the long side for just internet computer viewing. Wastes everything including my time and are a PITA to try to view and just proves how lazy they are or unwilling to learn even the simplest things about what they are doing.
It's pretty presumptuous to call them lazy or ignorant. Some people just prefer high quality pictures. A site like Flickr where you can choose what size to display but still offer others is ideal.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
I hate people who up load pictures that are over 700 - 800 on the long side for just internet computer viewing. Wastes everything including my time and are a PITA to try to view and just proves how lazy they are or unwilling to learn even the simplest things about what they are doing..... ::: Grump ::: And get off my lawn while you're at it !!! :::
What resolution monitor do you have? The only way I can see it being a PITA is if you're at 800x600 or something. A majority of users these days are actually at resolutions higher than 1024x768. I'm at 1600x1200 and I consider anything under, say, 720 pixels on the long side to be small for my tastes. 400 pixels can be annoyingly small, especially when it comes to evaluating photos on a website. For a simple illustrative snapshot, though, 400 px is fine. For a thread like this, I'd say give 'em to me at 800 px, even 1024 on the long side.
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Re: Assignment C
Quote:
Originally posted by sistercoyote
I especially like the second picture. Did you try the same shots with a higher aperture number?
Your camera probably has an array of points within the frame it tries to get in focus. You may be able to select an individual point for it to calculate focus. However, most point-and-shoots use a range finder that can be tough to manually manipulate. One reason I like the SLR version, using sharpness and contrast to find focus, is that you can see the exact focus before snapping the picture.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by McNutty
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
I hate people who up load pictures that are over 700 - 800 on the long side for just internet computer viewing. Wastes everything including my time and are a PITA to try to view and just proves how lazy they are or unwilling to learn even the simplest things about what they are doing.
It's pretty presumptuous to call them lazy or ignorant. Some people just prefer
high quality pictures. A site like Flickr where you can choose what size to display but still offer others is ideal.
Yes, with Flickr if you link to the mid size, that is cool. Not exactly what I was talking about.... I disagree with what should be the normal thing to do on the net. Can we agree to disagree?
Sorry to all.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Trying to live up to McNutty & pulykamell's picture quality desires.
It is not that great a picture and unless you have a pretty big DSL or Cable connection, or a lot of time, I don't recommend you bother looking at it....
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
Easy, Tiger. If you think I was asking you to post higher quality pictures, you misread me. I'm just saying people have other reasons for posting large images besides being lazy or ignorant.
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Re: Assignment C
Quote:
Originally posted by garygnu
I especially like the second picture. Did you try the same shots with a higher aperture number?
Your camera probably has an array of points within the frame it tries to get in focus. You may be able to select an individual point for it to calculate focus. However, most point-and-shoots use a range finder that can be tough to manually manipulate. One reason I like the SLR version, using sharpness and contrast to find focus, is that you can see the exact focus before snapping the picture.
The pictures with the Jackalope were the ones where I did the same shot with low and high apertures; these two were more seeing how aperture worked with macro and s-macro on.
There is, I have discovered, a way to choose the point for my camera to calculate focus, but I keep forgetting where it is. I really need to find the manual that came with the camera, since the PDF I've been using isn't exactly convenient to carry.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
JPEGs, please. If you're coming across people uploading BMPs then, yes, I agree with you that they're being lazy. To be honest, though, I've never seen anyone upload a BMP from a digital photo. Cameras usually store their pictures as JPEGs, raw files, or possibly TIFFs. Most people just deal with JPEGs. Even a full res JPEG on your average camera is only going to be 2-3 megabytes, and when you compress that down to 800 pixels across, we're talking less than 200K.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggirl
feather, your lovely assistant seems so happy assisting you. If I asked my lovely assistant to wave his arms around while I took his picture, he'd roll his eyes at me. I'm sure I could get him to do it but he wouldn't look so content.
Yes, there was eye-rolling. There was also cat-chasing in the hopes of getting a moving shot of one of them, but apparently shooting running cats is a learned skill. (I think the look of contentment comes from thinking of baseball movies or something.)
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
To add, my point is what McNutty said (that it's not just being "lazy"--people are purposely choosing 800 pixel dimensions, because it's not any "lazier" than picking 400 pixels. They both take the same amount of work--they both take going into a program and downsizing your original capture.) Second, it's difficult to judge the technical quality of photos at small sizes. You can hide a lot of technical sloppiness in a 300x200 picture that will be blindingly obvious at 1200x800, much less as an 8x12 print. It's easier to diagnose focusing issues when you have enough resolution to actually see where the camera focused on. Third, big pictures simply have more impact. a photo that looks kinda cool at a thumbnail size suddenly becomes AWESOME when viewed full screen. There are few photos that are not improved by viewing at larger sizes.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by pulykamell
JPEGs, please. If you're coming across people uploading BMPs then, yes, I agree with you that they're being lazy. To be honest, though, I've never seen anyone upload a BMP from a digital photo. Cameras usually store their pictures as JPEGs, raw files, or possibly TIFFs. Most people just deal with JPEGs. Even a full res JPEG on your average camera is only going to be 2-3 megabytes, and when you compress that down to 800 pixels across, we're talking less than 200K.
Oh, average cameras, ( I think your idea of average cameras is a bit behind the times) and compress them down too. Doing that is not being lazy or ignorant, ( ignorance = lack of knowledge, stupidity = incurable condition) that is going to the effort to make them usable for others and you know that was not who I am talking about.
I am referencing those with a point & shoot who just upload directly from their camera set on the highest settings which their un changed from default browser resizes for them when viewing and their high dollar fiber to the house connection allows them to up load and down load in an instant type people. Those that will not be bothered to learn nor take the time to resize or compress using an application or some such....
There are many people out there with first cameras that go to 10 - 14 mega pixels and they have them and also have no clue nor will even try to get a clue. Those are who I was talking about and I think you know it.
We disagree and that is cool.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
General comment. I think it is ________ to just blow off those who only can have dial-up which it seems that some here don't mind doing. For this thread, yeah, sure, bigger is better ( up to a point) but no matter how you do it, you are making an effort, trying to learn or show someone something helpful, I hope. Not just showing off.
Paper prints, sure, you need a lot more to start with... (Is that what we are trying to learn here?) Your elderly aunt Ethel on dial-up does not need straight from the camera 3200 X 2600 at 700K pictures embeded in her email..... Well maybe your's does but I would not do that to my relatives or to others on a message board in the general run of the mill doings....
YMMV
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
Oh, average cameras, ( I think your idea of average cameras is a bit behind the times)
I sincerely doubt it. (Both my 12MP cameras make JPEGs in the 2-3 MB range under normal settings.)
Quote:
I am referencing those with a point & shoot who just upload directly from their camera set on the highest settings which their un changed from default browser resizes for them when viewing and their high dollar fiber to the house connection allows them to up load and down load in an instant type people. Those that will not be bothered to learn nor take the time to resize or compress using an application or some such....
Except that's explicitly NOT what you said. You were complaining about people uploading at 700-800 pixels across. Your average P&S these days is about 3500 or so pixels on the long side.
Quote:
There are many people out there with first cameras that go to 10 - 14 mega pixels and they have them and also have no clue nor will even try to get a clue. Those are who I was talking about and I think you know it.
Well, that's not whom I thought you were addressing. Your post said those who upload at 800 pixels on the long side, and I thought you meant exactly that.
Quote:
We disagree and that is cool.
I actually don't think we disagree. People who upload straight-from-camera images without downsizing are annoying. But that's not at all what I got from your posts before this one.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Quote:
Originally posted by Dragon
General comment. I think it is ________ to just blow off those who only can have dial-up which it seems that some want. for this thread, yeah, sure, bigger is better but no matter how you do it, you are making an effort and trying to learn.
Dude, really, it's okay to upload small photos. I don't care, I'm not one of the instructors here. I'm just trying to explain why some of us like slightly bigger photos, since you called it being "lazy," and I disagreed with that assessment.
edit: This is better handled in the side conversations thread, so let's not continue it here if you want to continue.
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Re: The DoMeBo Photography Class - Lesson #2
Yeah, this is done.....
Lets go take pictures...... :mrgreen:
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Re: Assignment B
Quote:
Originally posted by sistercoyote
Excellent example of shutter speed. If you can, try going in between those two speeds and try to get the clock at the right extreme of its swing with just a little bit of blur. This would make a dramatic photo.
Something like this:
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/u...hree/Clock.jpg
Which I ’shopped to get a similar effect.
Dragon, the standard for “large” images I upload is usually 1000 pixels wide, which shows up on my monitor at full size. I get to those dimensions in Photoshop because the scaling in Photobucket isn’t as clean.
I get that some people shoot at a large size and post the pictures however they come out of the camera, but I hope you’re not having problems with my images.
In any case, go takes some pictures, dammit.
