Obama and his off taste joke about the mentally disabled

I read an article a couple days ago stating that Obama jumping into the late night comedy field had a few parts that he could take advantage of and a few possible minefields. The good part is he's not in front of the podium spouting off words and numbers that even his greatest supporters can't go through without getting sleepy (and angry at wall street.. but at some point you get tired of hearing those numbers.. more numb than anything).

The minefield? Saying something that has ramifications. Something you don't mean to say that goes "oops.." and pisses off a whole group of people.


I used to work with the mentally disabled, and I'm shocked, even as a super supporter of Obama, just shocked, that the title of this article was this:

Obama mixes politics, comedy on 'Tonight Show'

The CNN article states:

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Obama also remarked on his poor bowling skills, which were evident during a campaign stop in Pennsylvania. He told Leno that he bowled 129 in the White House bowling alley and said his bowling skills are "like Special Olympics or something."

Deputy Press Secretary Bill Burton said the president's remarks were not meant to poke fun of the Special Olympics.

"The president made an offhand remark making fun of his own bowling that was in no way intended to disparage the Special Olympics," Burton said. "He thinks that the Special Olympics are a wonderful program that gives an opportunity to shine to people with disabilities from around the world."

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Yeah? Well where did he state that? The title, if he had said something about.. oh.. I don't know, Hispanics or Jews would be a bit different. The mentally disabled, though? They fit in with one of the following:

1) Politics
or...
2) Comedy

Would you please tell me which one he meant them to fit into?

I'm seriously a huge fan of his politics. I like the fact that he's not for the jackass super rich, the inside seven homes leaders that have run this country for so long. I do like that fact. But when I see him just disparaging a group of people that do not even have the ability to even get enough ahead to have more in their life than maybe, just maybe, get a paper certificate that states they had a good time at a bowling alley one day then that's low.

I've worked with people who's goal was to be able to go bowling without the bumpers (you know, those blow up things they put up in the gutters to make sure you get some pins down, no matter how bad you throw the ball?). They had a blast doing it. And they were proud of knowing they could get out of their group home and go to a for fun tournament rather than stay home. I've also worked (and still do in my current but different job) with people that have no control over their bowel movements. I work with people that forget that it's not 1955. Does he want to joke about knowing the date or being able to hold it until he gets to the shitter?

If he tried to say he.. oh... bowled like a guy with one leg would anyone be offended? Or if he said he bowled like he was blind? Or how about just if he just came out and said "like a retard"?

Someone please tell me the title of that article isn't jack shit and the press secretary isn't just patting the local mentally disabled kid on the back saying "hey hey.. he wasn't talking about you, specifically.


What the hell?

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Originally posted by Clayton_e

I've worked with people whose goal was to be able to go bowling without the bumpers (you know, those blow up things they put up in the gutters to make sure you get some pins down, no matter how bad you throw the ball?).

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So, Obama's comparison was accurate. What exactly is the problem?

ETA: Wait a sec. They don't use those inflatable bumpers in the Special Olympics, do they? Sounds unlikely. To be honest, I've never watched the bowling event at the Special Olympics; is that even one of the competition sports?

Okay, just did a quick check. No mention of bumpers, but Special Olympics bowling does allow use of a ramp.

[modhat:398rfnkx]Thread moved to the Thunderdome[/modhat:398rfnkx]

Oh, Jesus. He was depricating HIMSELF. I hate CNN. I hate Fucks News. I hate them all.

It's not the sort of comment a politician should say.

It is the sort of comment I would say to my mates, but then 1) I know them well enough to know they wont be offended, and 2) I'm not in politics, thank Bo.

Cut him some slack. A human making a human error is no biggie. It's only when this becomes an established pattern of behaviour that we should start grumbling about Barackisms.

Thank god the only people who care about retards are the mothers of retards. Now that this thread is in the thunderdome btw we can call them retards. That one behind you just pooped himself. Be afraid.

But seriously, so Obama has a sense of humor. I know its going to take all of us some getting use to, but I think we can get through it.

and retards genuinely are funny and none of you can deny that

I'd almost be afraid to look in The Pit if he'd dare to say that he played like a FAT Retard. The recreational outrage would overflow the servers.

I dunno, these days it seems that everyone is just perched on the edge, looking around for something to be outraged about.

I believe the thinking is that it's wrong to imply that any group of humanity is in some way categorically lesser than other groups. Including when that group of humanity is grouped together because of their reduced capabilities.

I'm not sure how I feel about that particular stance as applied here, but that is, AFAIK, the reasoning behind people getting worked up about similar comments.

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Originally posted by AllWalker

It's not the sort of comment a politician should say.

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Exactly. We all know what he meant and how such a thing might slip out, but it was still inappropriate and unfortunate.

We get Leno's show here in Sweden but I don't know when a particular episode will air and damnit, I don't want to miss this one. Is it available on the website somewhere?

Exactly. If he consistently took pops at physically or mentally tarded people, there would be good reason to be outraged.


ETA. In response to Chimera's post.

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Originally posted by AllWalker

It's not the sort of comment a politician should say.

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Right.

It's the kind of thing that I think we all would agree is basically in poor taste, but that a lot of people say anyway. I've probably said worse (I'm not proud of that fact). Whatever his political party, though, it's not really something to make a huge deal out of. (I don't see any evidence that people are making a huge deal out of it, either, so uh good job humanity I guess?)

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Originally posted by hatesfreedom

and retards genuinely are funny and none of you can deny that

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This.

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Originally posted by hatesfreedom

and retards genuinely are funny and none of you can deny that

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I find your avatar intriguing -- I didn't know tin foil hats came in red. . . .


The remark was ill-advised. I suspect Obama hasn't quite fully grasped that he is now a resident of Glass Bubble Land.

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Originally posted by BJMoose

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Originally posted by hatesfreedom

and retards genuinely are funny and none of you can deny that

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I find your avatar intriguing -- I didn't know tin foil hats came in red. . . .

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I don't get it.

PS: The title of this thread contains an interesting linguistic thingy, the author accidentally mixed two idioms ("off-color" and "bad taste") and came up with something else.

I'm not, like, finding fault. I just think it's interesting.

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Originally posted by Caerie

I believe the thinking is that it's wrong to imply that any group of humanity is in some way categorically lesser than other groups.

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Lesser at what, bowling?

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

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Originally posted by Caerie

I believe the thinking is that it's wrong to imply that any group of humanity is in some way categorically lesser than other groups.

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Lesser at what, bowling?

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Of course, that's a deeply offensive statement. All people should bowl exactly the same way. If some people show a greater aptitude than others, we can put sandbags on their arms.

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Originally posted by Caerie

Of course, that's a deeply offensive statement. All people should bowl exactly the same way. If some people show a greater aptitude than others, we can put sandbags on their arms.

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Hey, I remember that story. What was it called again? I think I read it in 7th grade.

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Originally posted by Excalibre

PS: The title of this thread contains an interesting linguistic thingy, the author accidentally mixed two idioms ("off-color" and "bad taste") and came up with something else.

I'm not, like, finding fault. I just think it's interesting.

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You know, off-taste. Like when you accidentally put the Cool Whip tub back in the fridge without the lid securely sealed, and then when you go back for more Cool Whip a week later, it tastes like pad thai or curry chicken or something?

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Hey, I remember that story. What was it called again? I think I read it in 7th grade.

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Harrison Bergeron. I always think of it when people get riled up by genuine differences in ability.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

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Originally posted by Caerie

Of course, that's a deeply offensive statement. All people should bowl exactly the same way. If some people show a greater aptitude than others, we can put sandbags on their arms.

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Hey, I remember that story. What was it called again? I think I read it in 7th grade.

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I believe you're thinking of Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut. It's a good story that was used as the basis of a good film, although the story in the film is very much expanded from the original story.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

You know, off-taste. Like when you accidentally put the Cool Whip tub back in the fridge without the lid securely sealed, and then when you go back for more Cool Whip a week later, it tastes like pad thai or curry chicken or something?

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I don't eat cool whip.

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Originally posted by Caerie

Harrison Bergeron. I always think of it when people get riled up by genuine differences in ability.

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Yes. Political correctness has, indeed, run amok.

It's funny that talking heads spew about 10,000 words a day, much of which don't stand up to fact checking, or basic PC standards.

The president's words (and this happened to Bush, as well) are held to insanely high standards by comparison.

Some points:

It was a careless thing to say

Obama rarely says something careless

It was on a casual, late-night chit-chat show

It shows he's only human

It was a careless thing to say (x2)

...

Sadly, this just gives the right-wing punditry fuel. Of course, as they have had very little of substance to work with lately, this could distract them from
dicking around with stuff that matters, like fiscal policy.

In two weeks, only Rush will still be talking about this. In two years, he will still be talking about this.

He probably couldn't sleep last night because he was so excited about talking about this.

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Originally posted by Oliveloaf

Sadly, this just gives the right-wing punditry fuel.

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Yes. The number of people who were genuinely offended is probably very, very low, but that doesn't matter to the shit-slingers.

The question is of course whether this really matters. Maybe the people listening to Rush Limbaugh are beyond reach by Obama anyway, no matter what he says, and this thing will be preached to the choir and no-one else.

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Originally posted by Caerie

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Hey, I remember that story. What was it called again? I think I read it in 7th grade.

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Harrison Bergeron. I always think of it when people get riled up by genuine differences in ability.

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That was it, thank you. I did not realize it was Vonnegut but I should have as it stayed with me for so long. I guess I had a fairly cool 7th grade English teacher.

Obama needs to take a lesson from one of my old sigs - "There is no opinion you could conceivably express, however innocuous, that won't piss off somebody, somewhere." - Spider Robinson

As I get older, my PC'ness is shrinking. Soon I'm going to start saying exactly what I think, and to hell with the consequences.

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Originally posted by featherlou

Soon I'm going to start saying exactly what I think, and to hell with the consequences.

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I'd do that, but pretty soon people are going to get tired of hearing "I wonder what's for dinner?" and "Nice tits."

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Originally posted by silenus

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Originally posted by featherlou

Soon I'm going to start saying exactly what I think, and to hell with the consequences.

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I'd do that, but pretty soon people are going to get tired of hearing "I wonder what's for dinner?" and "Nice tits."

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Heh - I think for me it might be, "Oh my god, are you still talking? Why won't you JUST STOP TALKING?"

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Originally posted by featherlou

Obama needs to take a lesson from one of my old sigs - "There is no opinion you could conceivably express, however innocuous, that won't piss off somebody, somewhere." - Spider Robinson

As I get older, my PC'ness is shrinking. Soon I'm going to start saying exactly what I think, and to hell with the consequences.

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Exactly.

I have always hated "political correctness" from when it started way back when. I am so anti-pc that I sometimes tend to shock people in casual conversation. As far as I'm concerned PC is nothing more than a way to try to make everything equal and try to make everyone "feel better", like having no "losers" in kids sporting events, or something. [I know this will probably put me plainly into "asshole" territory even though I am not an asshole] These days you're not retarded, you are mentally challenged. Stupid? Nope now you're "gifted"! Crippled? No way, not now, now you are "handi-capable"!! Do I think I am better than retarded people, stupid people or crippled people ? No. Definitely not. Each person is who they are and should be appreciated as such, just quit putting pansy-ass PC catch-phrase titles on everything.

I think Obama's gaffe on Leno was nothing more than showing us that he is a real human being, not some political automaton with a permanently attached teleprompter. Does it make it right? Is it wrong? Who fucking cares!! People have to quit being so uptight and quit getting offended at every little thing that happens or at something somebody says.

On the radio program this morning, some kid from the Special Olympics bowling stated [making fun of Obama a bit] something along the lines of "Mr. President, you have to bowl better than 129 to win [bowling] at the SO" and he invited Obama to play a game of bowling with him. So, now a kid in the Special Olympics isn't throwing a fit , why should anyone else be.

hey look let's all discuss how much we dislike political correctness, it is an interesting topic for conversation and not at all a sad indictment of the way we uncritically repeat whatever slogans the media push on us

when we all say whatever the tv tells us to, we all agree and that's nice, bandwagons are neat

you can tell i'm an intelligent, independent thinker because i get outraged at what i am supposed to get outraged at

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Originally posted by LVgeogeek

So, now a kid in the Special Olympics isn't throwing a fit , why should anyone else be.

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Where is the evidence that someone is "throwing a fit"? You are getting outraged about something that is literally imaginary.

(P.S. Of course he's not good at bowling, black people don't go bowling.)

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Originally posted by Harlequin

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Originally posted by Oliveloaf

Sadly, this just gives the right-wing punditry fuel.

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Yes. The number of people who were genuinely offended is probably very, very low, but that doesn't matter to the shit-slingers.

The question is of course whether this really matters. Maybe the people listening to Rush Limbaugh are beyond reach by Obama anyway, no matter what he says, and this thing will be preached to the choir and no-one else.

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It was like the answer to a prayer this morning. A talking head (Alex Witt) on MSNBC was interviewing some insignificant slug about this. She kept looking down, and finally just interrupted the guy. "I'm getting Tweets like crazy," she said. "They're all saying how petty this is, and how they're tired of hearing about it. Why don't we just cut this short..."

It was a beautiful moment. And God bless Twitter.

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Originally posted by AllWalker

It's not the sort of comment a politician should say.

It is the sort of comment I would say to my mates, but then 1) I know them well enough to know they wont be offended, and 2) I'm not in politics, thank Bo.

Cut him some slack. A human making a human error is no biggie. It's only when this becomes an established pattern of behaviour that we should start grumbling about Barackisms.

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Wait a minute, why shouldn't a politician say something like this. If nothing else he comes across as being somewhat like a normal dude, rather then some robotic politician who can;t say dick unless he has cue cards in front of him.

Thing is, someone, somewhere is going to be offended by everything Obama says, it;s just going to be different people who are offended.

That's an excellent story, Liberal.

He should take lessons from former Alberta premier, Ralph Klein. Ralphie was a former newsman - he knew the media backwards and forwards. Ralph always said exactly what he felt like saying, and then apologized in a half-assed fashion if the outcry was big enough (for example, throwing change at homeless people, or telling disabled people they didn't look severely handicapped). Of course, Ralph drank a lot, too.

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Originally posted by featherlou

Of course, Ralph drank a lot, too.

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Of course he did. He had to live through Alberta winters.


:mrgreen:

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Originally posted by Excalibre

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Originally posted by LVgeogeek

So, now a kid in the Special Olympics isn't throwing a fit , why should anyone else be.

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Where is the evidence that someone is "throwing a fit"? You are getting outraged about something that is literally imaginary.

(P.S. Of course he's not good at bowling, black people don't go bowling.)

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The OP was, as well as anyone can do so in writing, throwing a fit.

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Originally posted by WhyNot

The OP was, as well as anyone can do so in writing, throwing a fit.

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Not even remotely. Go back and reread it.

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Originally posted by Excalibre

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Originally posted by LVgeogeek

So, now a kid in the Special Olympics isn't throwing a fit , why should anyone else be.

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Where is the evidence that someone is "throwing a fit"? You are getting outraged about something that is literally imaginary.

(P.S. Of course he's not good at bowling, black people don't go bowling.)

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:roll:

OK, I should have clarified who the fit throwers are... the people who are whining that he insulted the crippled or the disabled (OMG you can't make fun of the cripples!!) with his comment about his bowling skills "being like the Special Olympics or something", when he was just making a disparaging remark about himself. He wasn't making fun of people in the SO.

I heard an uncorroborated account that Obama called the Special Olympics director from Air Force One after the taping, before it aired, to apologize.

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Originally posted by LVgeogeek

:roll:

OK, I should have clarified who the fit throwers are... the people who are whining that he insulted the crippled or the disabled (OMG you can't make fun of the cripples!!) with his comment about his bowling skills "being like the Special Olympics or something", when he was just making a disparaging remark about himself. He wasn't making fun of people in the SO.

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Once again, his comment was in poor taste.

Is this where we have come as a society? No one can even say, "You know, that comment was in poor taste" without being falsely accused of "throwing a fit"?

You guys who are always patting yourselves on the back for being "politically incorrect" are the ones who actually are constantly, noisily offended. Just sayin'.

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Originally posted by Excalibre

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Originally posted by WhyNot

The OP was, as well as anyone can do so in writing, throwing a fit.

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Not even remotely. Go back and reread it.

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I did. Once you start talking about uncontrollable bowel movements and people who can't remember it's not 1955 and pretend that it's specifically those people whom you have worked with that the President was making fun of (or that his comment was making fun of Special Olympics competitors at all), you're at least as far into "throwing a fit" territory as to be the sort of person I think is overreacting.

I do have a low "fit" tolerance, I admit. When my kid's more than a bit whiny, I call it a fit and put an end to it. Got to teach 'em to repress their emotions early, ya know. ;)

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Originally posted by WhyNot

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Originally posted by Excalibre

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Originally posted by WhyNot

The OP was, as well as anyone can do so in writing, throwing a fit.

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Not even remotely. Go back and reread it.

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I did. Once you start talking about uncontrollable bowel movements and people who can't remember it's not 1955 and pretend that it's specifically those people whom you have worked with that the President was making fun of (or that his comment was making fun of Special Olympics competitors at all), you're at least as far into "throwing a fit" territory as to be the sort of person I think is overreacting.

I do have a low "fit" tolerance, I admit. When my kid's more than a bit whiny, I call it a fit and put an end to it. Got to teach 'em to repress their emotions early, ya know. ;)

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I'm sorry, but I don't think that's remotely fair to the OP. It was a reasonably calm explanation of exactly why what Obama said was offensive. Which (to reiterate) it was, even if it wasn't grotesquely so -- for one thing, because in fact Special Olympians can bowl way the fuck better than Obama.

It's the internet, I sort of expect people to start this same tiresome round of self-congratulation wherein everyone talks about how edgy and un-PC they are or whatever, but I guess I still kind of find it disappointing. Everybody's conditioned like Pavlov's dogs, so that it doesn't matter the actual content of the original offensive statement, or whether or not the response was actually in proportion, everybody has to start repeating this same tired refrain about how they're so opposed to "political correctness".

I didn't vote for Mr. Obama, but this doesn't raise a 'Meh' on my screen. Too many people looking for reasons to get their political panties in a wad. Fuck 'em all.

This is simply a pisspoor attempt at "distracting" folks from the real issues of the day. (I put distracting in quotes because I don't think that its a deliberate action on the media's part, but that they'd rather go after what it sees as an easy subject to cover.) So far, I've not seen a mention in the news, save on The Daily Show (which is an entertainment program and not a news program) of the fact that much of the money being paid to AIG has in turn, been handed over to either foreign banks or US banks which have already been recipients of bailout funds.

That should be the focus of the news, and not an off-the-cuff remark of minor importance by Obama.

My feelings too. We'd all love to have a device we could edit our past utterances with, only none of us average folks are followed by a media waiting to pounce on such slip-ups.

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Originally posted by Clayton_e

I've worked with people who's goal was to be able to go bowling without the bumpers (you know, those blow up things they put up in the gutters to make sure you get some pins down, no matter how bad you throw the ball?). They had a blast doing it. And they were proud of knowing they could get out of their group home and go to a for fun tournament rather than stay home. I've also worked (and still do in my current but different job) with people that have no control over their bowel movements. I work with people that forget that it's not 1955.

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That's great, you're a fucking hero because you've done all that and never been able to see the humor in any of it. Where should we send the medal?

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Originally posted by Rigamarole

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Originally posted by Clayton_e

I've worked with people who's goal was to be able to go bowling without the bumpers (you know, those blow up things they put up in the gutters to make sure you get some pins down, no matter how bad you throw the ball?). They had a blast doing it. And they were proud of knowing they could get out of their group home and go to a for fun tournament rather than stay home. I've also worked (and still do in my current but different job) with people that have no control over their bowel movements. I work with people that forget that it's not 1955.

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That's great, you're a fucking hero because you've done all that and never been able to see the humor in any of it. Where should we send the medal?

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Reread his post, reread your response, and then just let the shame wash over you.

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Originally posted by Excalibre

Reread his post, reread your response, and then just let the shame wash over you.

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You keep telling people in the thread to re-read the OP, but honestly it's just not that well written. It's unclear whether he's more upset with Obama's comment or the newspaper for putting a certain spin on it.

But this comment, from the OP:

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Originally posted by Clayton_e

But when I see him just disparaging a group of people that do not even have the ability to even get enough ahead to have more in their life than maybe, just maybe, get a paper certificate that states they had a good time at a bowling alley one day then that's low.

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Is enough to make me think he has a bit of a stick up his ass. So I don't know WTF you are talking about Excalibre.

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Originally posted by Rigamarole

Is enough to make me think he has a bit of a stick up his ass. So I don't know WTF you are talking about Excalibre.

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What I'm talking about is I'm inviting people to reconsider the knee-jerk "I am DEEPLY OUTRAGED because somebody somewhere was POLITICALLY CORRECT" thing that internet people do. It's basically that shit like this deserves to be considered critically and it would be awesome for people to stop with this stupid anti-"PC" backlash stuff and actually start to think about these things.

Threads like this always end up as a whole lot of people all agreeing with each other about how terrible "political correctness" is and how OUTRAGED they are because (so they think) someone, somewhere is OUTRAGED about something. Not only is it tedious and stupid, but getting OUTRAGED like just about everyone else in this thread is is a bad thing -- it stops people from thinking in a serious way about things, which is inimical to a democratic society of thinking people, something I think everyone here is in favor of.

Really? They never end that way on the Dope. Hence my earlier post. It becomes a politically correct "how dare anyone say anything about someone's weight/gender/disability/whatever".

So maybe you see that other places, maybe you're just repeating your contrary behavior in hopes of stirring more shit on this board. In either event, this is my last post on the subject.

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Originally posted by Excalibre

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Originally posted by Rigamarole

Is enough to make me think he has a bit of a stick up his ass. So I don't know WTF you are talking about Excalibre.

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What I'm talking about is I'm inviting people to reconsider the knee-jerk "I am DEEPLY OUTRAGED because somebody somewhere was POLITICALLY CORRECT" thing that internet people do. It's basically that shit like this deserves to be considered critically and it would be awesome for people to stop with this stupid anti-"PC" backlash stuff and actually start to think about these things.

Threads like this always end up as a whole lot of people all agreeing with each other about how terrible "political correctness" is and how OUTRAGED they are because (so they think) someone, somewhere is OUTRAGED about something. Not only is it tedious and stupid, but getting OUTRAGED like just about everyone else in this thread is is a bad thing -- it stops people from thinking in a serious way about things, which is inimical to a democratic society of thinking people, something I think everyone here is in favor of.

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So you assume that because someone represents an "anti-PC" attitude they haven't ever thought about things "in a serious way" before. How un-PC of you. I'm fucking OUTRAGED.

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Originally posted by garygnu

I heard an uncorroborated account that Obama called the Special Olympics director from Air Force One after the taping, before it aired, to apologize.

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Confirmed.

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President Barack Obama apologized to Special Olympics chairman Timothy Shriver for making a joke about the organization during last night’s taping of NBC’s “The Tonight Show with Jay Leno.”

Shriver, appearing today on ABC News’ “Good Morning America,” said Obama’s apology was “very moving.” The president called Shriver from Air Force One before departing for Washington and said that he “didn’t want to embarrass or give anybody any more reason for pain and suffering.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 0&refer=us

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Originally posted by Chimera

So maybe you see that other places, maybe you're just repeating your contrary behavior in hopes of stirring more shit on this board. In either event, this is my last post on the subject.

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I don't know what the hell your childish issue with me is, and I don't really care. Just go away. Why do you even care about me?

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Originally posted by Rigamarole

So you assume that because someone represents an "anti-PC" attitude they haven't ever thought about things "in a serious way" before. How un-PC of you. I'm fucking OUTRAGED.

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I think when someone joins in the chorus of people who are OUTRAGED because someone, somewhere may have been offended by something (that was, in fact, somewhat offensive) then yes, it's a pretty clear sign they haven't thought seriously about the matter, yes.

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Originally posted by Excalibre

What I'm talking about is I'm inviting people to reconsider the knee-jerk "I am DEEPLY OUTRAGED because somebody somewhere was POLITICALLY CORRECT" thing that internet people do. It's basically that shit like this deserves to be considered critically and it would be awesome for people to stop with this stupid anti-"PC" backlash stuff and actually start to think about these things.

Threads like this always end up as a whole lot of people all agreeing with each other about how terrible "political correctness" is and how OUTRAGED they are because (so they think) someone, somewhere is OUTRAGED about something. Not only is it tedious and stupid, but getting OUTRAGED like just about everyone else in this thread is is a bad thing -- it stops people from thinking in a serious way about things, which is inimical to a democratic society of thinking people, something I think everyone here is in favor of.

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Now I think it's you that needs to go back and read the thread. Who here is DEEPLY OUTRAGED?

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Originally posted by WhyNot

Now I think it's you that needs to go back and read the thread. Who here is DEEPLY OUTRAGED?

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Eh. I may exaggerate a little, but the whole thread is basically the Great Big Anti-PC Echo Chamber.

It's a new board, how about some reconsideration of some of this instead of just rehashing the same opinions as at the other place?

I winced when I heard about the comment. I didn't think it was a horrible, no-good, ghastly thing to say, but I think it was the type of thing that really can hurt a person who has already got a lot of boots kicking at his head. I think Special Olympics is a great program, and I'd bet Obama does as well. But the fact that these sorts of jokes just roll off our tongues even when we're highly educated and probably being very careful about what we say, shows, I think, that we have a cultural contempt for the weak. We individually feel empathy (well, most of us), but culturally feel a sort of disgusted superiority.

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Originally posted by Julie

But the fact that these sorts of jokes just roll off our tongues even when we're highly educated and probably being very careful about what we say, shows, I think, that we have a cultural contempt for the weak.

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Is that really a problem? In nature the weak don't get coddled, they get eaten by wolves. By comparison we're way nicer.

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Originally posted by Rigamarole

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Originally posted by Julie

But the fact that these sorts of jokes just roll off our tongues even when we're highly educated and probably being very careful about what we say, shows, I think, that we have a cultural contempt for the weak.

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Is that really a problem? In nature the weak don't get coddled, they get eaten by wolves. By comparison we're way nicer.

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"Most of us are better than wolves!"

Harumph.

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Originally posted by Rigamarole

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Originally posted by Julie

But the fact that these sorts of jokes just roll off our tongues even when we're highly educated and probably being very careful about what we say, shows, I think, that we have a cultural contempt for the weak.

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Is that really a problem? In nature the weak don't get coddled, they get eaten by wolves. By comparison we're way nicer.

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It all depends upon how you define "weak."

I think Obama should go bowling with some Special Olympics people, and they should kick his ass. (Judging by what that kid apparently said, it shouldn't be hard.)

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Originally posted by Julie

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Originally posted by Rigamarole

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Originally posted by Julie

But the fact that these sorts of jokes just roll off our tongues even when we're highly educated and probably being very careful about what we say, shows, I think, that we have a cultural contempt for the weak.

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Is that really a problem? In nature the weak don't get coddled, they get eaten by wolves. By comparison we're way nicer.

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"Most of us are better than wolves!"

Harumph.

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Remember: if you have really low expectations, you're always pleasantly surprised!

Today I refrained from slaughtering the children of a social rival.

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Originally posted by featherlou

As I get older, my PC'ness is shrinking. Soon I'm going to start saying exactly what I think, and to hell with the consequences.

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Once, in about 6th grade, in response to an adventure into a department store with an older salesman I said to my giggling friend: I can't wait until I'm old enough to fart in public and not care. Which, really, is a bold thing to admit for a 6th grade girl. I wonder if part of Obama says to hell with it - "Like me or don't. You know what I mean."

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Originally posted by Caerie

Today I refrained from slaughtering the children of a social rival.

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You bleeding heart you.

I don't think this is as big a deal as some people in the media are making it, but I thought one of the nice things about having Obama as president instead of W was that our hallowed leader wouldn't make jackass statements in public anymore.

Should he have said "I bowl like a little girly"? Should he have deliberated long and hard over the exact comparison he wanted to make? Was his comment part of a litany against individuals of potentially lesser ability?

What he said may have been casually cruel - and surely most humans have made that mistake? - but it wasn't intended to attack a specific individual or even a group of them. IMO.

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Originally posted by ivan astikov

Should he have said "I bowl like a little girly"? Should he have deliberated long and hard over the exact comparison he wanted to make? Was his comment part of a litany against individuals of potentially lesser ability?

What he said may have been casually cruel - and surely most humans have made that mistake? - but it wasn't intended to attack a specific individual or even a group of them. IMO.

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Surely most humans have made plenty of gaffes in speech that are lightly skimmed over by their audience. When you're the leader of the greatest country in the world, you have an obligation to be somewhat flawless in your public speech, as you're bound to have it criticized.
Making a gaffe that's easily perceived as being markedly insensitive to one group doesn't mean that Obama's a jerk, or even prejudiced against the mentally handicapped. But it's disappointing, just as if he'd inadvertantly referred to something that he thought was lame* as 'gay', or if a white president had thoughtlessly referred to brazil nuts as niggertoes.



*no offense intended to the physically handicapped. Then again, I'm not the President, and nobody expects me to speak intelligently. So catch me if you can, gimps!

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Originally posted by ivan astikov

What he said may have been casually cruel - and surely most humans have made that mistake? - but it wasn't intended to attack a specific individual or even a group of them. IMO.

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It's exactly the casual cruelty that I find disheartening in the comment. It's just such a common thought or statement that we fall right into it without thinking it through.

I saw no "casual cruelty" myself. Not the least speck of it. Mr. Obama was, at worst, thoughtless. He's paying pretty dearly for it. But at least he didn't swear to God that there were WMD's hidden in the desert, or even lift his dog up by the ears. Can we put it in perspective?

Right here and other the other board (and many other places) a lot of people use the word "retard" or "retarded" in a casually cruel way to mean "stupid", and while I am in general no big fan of PCness, I do think that using the word "retard" in that fashion is at best unkind. A lot of retarded people know perfectly well that "retard" is a big insult and if someone's feelings are really hurt, in the real world, then a kind person ought to refrain from using it in that way. If a black person wants to be called a black person rather than a Negro, if a woman of colour wants to be called a woman of colour instead of a coloured woman, if a native Indian wants to be called a First Nations person instead of an Indian, then I will do so. It doesn't hurt me and it makes the wheels of social intercourse run more smoothly.

I belong to an oppressed group myself: I am a fat old lady with grey hair. I am getting touchy in my old age, and understand more and more clearly how labels, when misused, can be hurtful.

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Originally posted by Rigamarole

That's great, you're a fucking hero because you've done all that and never been able to see the humor in any of it. Where should we send the medal?

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You know what? You're right. Next time I'm at the mall and I see someone that's mentally disabled I'll snicker and laugh. It'll... you know, condition them to realize that they're not as good as everyone else. They might as well figure that out before we all pretend they're normal and do all sorts of fake things to make them think they're good at life or to help them, you know, feel good about themselves.

God gave us the mentally disabled for my amusement when I'm stuck in line at Wal-Mart. Gotcha.


Again, I'll quote: "Never been able to see the humor in any of it"


You're a horrible human being.




Sorry was away from computer access for the last couple days, havn't been able to participate in the thread. And the "off taste" title? My brain just had the biggest fart.. I didn't catch that until you mentioned it.

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Originally posted by vison

I saw no "casual cruelty" myself. Not the least speck of it. Mr. Obama was, at worst, thoughtless. He's paying pretty dearly for it. But at least he didn't swear to God that there were WMD's hidden in the desert, or even lift his dog up by the ears. Can we put it in perspective?

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Who hasn't put it in perspective?

Lots of people, but I wasn't referring to you. Sorry.

The sort of people who didn't put it in perspective probably don't post here. I should keep that in mind.

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Originally posted by vison

Lots of people, but I wasn't referring to you. Sorry.

The sort of people who didn't put it in perspective probably don't post here. I should keep that in mind.

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Ah, gotcha.

So where's the outrage in the national media about the stupid cunt, Arizona State Senator Linda Gray, who actually did insult a specific special-needs child in a nasty, hateful email response to the young woman's inquiry about school budget cuts?

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Originally posted by Cunt Gray

. . .

Ana, I have grave concerns on your ability to pass the AIMS language test. Why didn't you take to time to write an email with the proper punctuation? By your poorly written email, your example tells me that all the money we have spent on your education shows a lack of learning on your part. My son and daughter went through the Glendale UHSD and had a public school education. My daughter is a 6th grade teacher and she would be embarrassed if a student in her classroom sent such an email. You should be ashamed of displaying such ignorance in writing to a public servant. Perhaps you watch too much TV or don't know how to speak proper English.

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Bitch.

I can imagine being that snarky on a messageboard. I can't imagine saying it as a part of my job.

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Originally posted by Jill

So where's the outrage in the national media about the stupid cunt, Arizona State Senator Linda Gray, who actually did insult a specific special-needs child in a nasty, hateful email response to the young woman's inquiry about school budget cuts?

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If I say that we're probably not that outraged in this case because the senator in question is a Republican, am I guilty of the soft bigotry of low expectations? :lol:

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Originally posted by ivan astikov

Should he have said "I bowl like a little girly"?

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The Girl Scouts would have been up in arms over that one. I doubt the White House would get Thin Mints and Do-See-Dos ever again.

My niece is an independent living, mentally disabled person of about 45 years of age. I've watched her lifelong struggles and her family's struggles to cope with her in the early years (and even now). But I wasn't offended, and I'm sure that my sister and her family weren't offended, even though they are to the right of almost anybody on the planet and would have voted for Bush for a third term. I was somewhat surprised by his lack of awareness of where he was, and Leno seemed embarrassed by the comment. But the man says so many right things that it's difficult to take him to task too awfully hard for being woefully human once in awhile. It's much ado about nothing.

Well, I guess I may have been a bit overly angry, he is human and probably doesn't actually mean it as a point and laugh at the disabled, just a "oops, wasn't thinking, hey, that might offend a few people" type comment. Its bound to happen, every word he says is quoted.

The possibility of people thinking of "humor" being a disabled person is what I can't get. Not a misspoken word that might be offending to some by accident, but the idea that the mentally disabled are a joke is pretty sad.

"Who cares?" and "I'm getting twitters saying this is nothing.."

The people that are saying this is nothing and twittering that it is nothing are only saying that it is nothing TO THEM and that THEY don't care. Chefguy, I'm pointing this jab in the direction of people that see the "humor", not in the president, if someone isn't perfect and just like you it's the PC police when someone says "dude... that's low" after you laugh maybe its because laughing at someone because of the way they talk or that they are so disabled they can't do anything on their own? Or maybe, just maybe, its really because its fucking despicable to laugh at someone because they're disabled.


So I learned something, don't take every little quote as a direct representation of how someone thinks of a group. I just hope people understand its not the PC police swinging through but just common decency to other people when someone gets a little angry about it.


And yes, my first post in the thread and even the title was horribly mangled... I suck. :P