THE OLD MUSIC THREAD OMNIBUS -- NO ROCK AND ROLLERS ALLOWED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE!!!!!!

Sociological commentary optional.

Yeah, and whatever, define "old" however you want. I hate that shit, like "eh bleh this is *my* thread I'm so special!" After all, isn't it forbidden to forbid, in an egalitarian society?

Yeah, so what I was thinking about....I got home early today and after loading up on about four hamburgers on my new favorite trip, english muffins (srsly, at least at my grocery store, which is the "premium" [or one of] branch of the Kroger family of stores) are like about same price as the bunny-bread (no, I didn't just make that term up....I know I've heard someone else say that, therefore I'm not just, in this case, making some stuff up, just kind of appropriating it) burger buns. so, like, might as well, right?

The more you know!

Well, at least if you like the texture of English muffins, which I, evidently, do.

Oh yeah, so when I got that happening on the grill I was like....shit, how long has it been since I played something on my real (cheap but good, to my ears) stereo, as opposed to just whatever off my computer?

I don't know why I decided to look up the redbook Duke *Far East Suite* off the shelf...for a long time I thought the CD was missing, but apparently I found it again sometime in the past year.

Yeah, so like the breakthrough was hearing the tune "Isfahan." I mean, everyone knows the tune because everyone plays it (including a bunch of piano players) and it's always, always in all the fakebooks.

Kind of "clicked" for me on this time through -- I don't think I'd given the Duke album a spin for maybe 15 years.

Jesus effing X, masterful performance whole band, great Duke piano picking, obviously great melodic tune, and, more importantly, great arrangement.

Times like this one half of me wishes I knew more about which of his crew did the writing(melody)/harmonizing/orchestrating, and the other half says, don't care, that's good the way it is.

Oh, fine, I likee the rockee-rollee teenager music, I just didn't necessarily want a bunch of people calling the MC5 or early boots of The Stooges "old" -- it's really not, even though I don't know what old is supposed to mean. Pre-1959? Yeah, I guess that's good.

And even though to illustrate a point I do like the embedded youtube, I think it can sometimes be distracting, so as a point of courtesy, I'd suggest maybe a link is good enough.

Anyway, it's not my place to say -- this thread no longer belongs to me, so do whatever, as I know you will, being a group of adults up for some adult fun and not merely sensitive, not merely new Age, people. I hope some people will have some amusing anecdotes about 2nd testament Basie band (Kid from Red Bank, amirite! yeah, corny metareference, but not at all a corny tune or recording) or one of the Duke suites. but I have no expectations, just make a little thread.

Oh fuck it, I think some tags would be funny. Like anonymous tags. Tag me in my face!

I'm a big fan of Jelly Roll Morton. Here are some my favorite performances of his:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkGjDbKauVo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujFWZrs6pow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjRlVk_IhfY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt203us6TME

Here's more on the musician himself. A key figure of early jazz, but he exaggerated when he said he invented it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelly_Roll_Morton

I like this old music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSL5-wxgvFY

That's a coincidence, EH -- I just scanned in some transcriptions from Jelly Roll the other day off a book from Interlibrary Loan.

Probably won't have a chance to play through them -- kind of a lot of other stuff ahead of it in the queue -- but it's good to have for reference.

I love those Library of Congress recordings. I have a feeling maybe whiskey might have contributed to some of Ferd's more outrageous statements and lyrics.

Duncan Swift's recording of Ferd's "The Naked Dance" is, for me, just classic since I was single-digits in age. Someday maybe I can figure some of that out, instead of just screwing around like "hey let's fake some old-time stripper music and annoy the neighbors!"

*Atomic Basie* last night. Amazing trumpet soloist throughout. Maybe somebody like Ernie Royal. OK I peeked. Thad Jones! My man Thad! I didn't know he came up with Basie. Jones-Lewis Orchestra 4ever tho! I recall "Kid From Red Bank" having more flashy piano on it, maybe it's all relative to the usual thing.

Oh, there's that good old stride roots, on the trio record. *For The First Time* -- there's some of that flashy stride piano picking. Real dead-slow blues in C.
I'm pretty convinced there isn't a more mellow, chilled out way to play it than Basie did it.

I think that's the height of music performance -- when you're just casually reaching out and tapping a few notes, whatever you feel like doing. No tension whatsoever.

You like old piano stuff, eh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZTeavJ9frA

Don't even be *making* me put in my earbuds!

You juveniles are silly. Can't you just use your words and tell me?

No, I will download the youtube video, but not listen right this second.

Let's see.

Oh, Dvorak (there's an accent there somewhere, but because qwerty US keyboards don't have accents, it's impossible to efficiently type using this non-composable-keybinding situation).

I really don't know *anything* by or about that dude. That one thing, sure, but I can't remember how it goes, and not sure I want to.

OK, you might be on to something there. I shall listen to it when I get home and offline, and maybe break my own rule and write a response to try to remember the Vim editor, which I haven't used in a while and need to remember just so as to not be lame. Oh, it's too late? Well fuck you!

ETA to amplify an earlier post, any of you piano junkies, just do what I do, and play (off the published sheet music, because one's memory is not that great]) some Joplin rags, like "The Easy Winners" or "The Magnetic Rag" or "Solace" or "Gladiolus" (that means "little sword," right? not going to look it up, but that sounds right, I guess), and just play it like ..... like stripper music. And then improvise like a motherfuck over all that shit.

Oh, sorry, EH, is that not the preferred nomenclature? ;)

I do love classic rock but I also love the blues, some swing and some classical and a lot of folk.

Right off the top, Rhapsody in Blue might be the greatest piece of music ever written and I love it. Gershwin's American in Paris is also top notch. So many of his other songs are also great.

I love Sing, Sing, Sing is an awesome upbeat song that effectively rocked before rock was invented. It also makes you want to get up and dance like few other songs. Another great classic is Glenn Miller's - In The Mood, seems to be used in any movie taking place in the time period.

Supposedly Leadbelly singing "Good Night Irene" could make hard men on the chain gang break down and cry. I can believe it.

Dvorak -- that's nice. Kind of like a folk tune, I guess. I don't like to be a critic, but the rhythmic invariability kind of annoys me. There are other good things there, but it's like with Brahms's music -- I love, particularly, the textures Brahms gets in writing for the piano, but the rhythms still bring me down and make me a little bit turgid and angry, and not in a good way.

Also, the recording sucks -- the piano sounds brittle, and the reverb sounds artificial and cloying. And I hate the violin -- reminds me of little kids or the old country.

No, sorry, I just can't take it anymore. Had to cut it short. It was either the recording was so annoying or I'm just....differently-abilified or whatever the preferred nomenclature is.

Also, it's too long. And not enough work in the plane of dynamics. It reminds me of a really stout woman trying to make me eat the rest of her homemade sausage when I couldn't eat another bite.

I heard Herbie do "Rhapsody in Blue" sometime last year in concert -- I was kind of impressed enough to look around for stuff, and I didn't realize that (as far as I know) it's really just a sketch for piano. Gershwin made the piano player do all the work, or most of it. That lazy a**h***.

Yeah, well I guess since this is supposed to be old music, I have to give propers to Ledbelly, rather than one-up with my favorite arrangement and performances, by James Booker.

A buddy reminded me of a Sisters of Mercy tune but that's no old.

So I've known for a long time since before you people were born that Liszt had some stuff to say, been playing the easier Hungarian Rhapsodies since a long time but I made it my short-term goal to in the next six months to play FL's 2nd Hung Rhaps *****and this is important***** WITHOUT just kind of faking it. Eh, there's some hard shit in that. But it makes me laugh.

Improvise diatonically over that while hitting the themes would be good.

Shoot me in the head I sound like a faggot but I don't care it's still fun and more importantly it is or could be good music.

Also, I'm doing good memorizing "Kitten on the Keys" but there's not too much room to improvise there so it's kind of like....eh, just like keep your chops up, but it isn't even that good for that because it's just "hmmmdummmmdothatthendothat" like wtf

I think does Waltzing Matilda on this one.

sus stands for ''suspended'', not sustained''. Good gravy. Maybe I should give piano lessons on Youtube.

Yeah, but he does other good stuff, like the fabled double diminished (to bring it full circle) employed by some of the big band arrangers (not Basie, but the other one), and of course, the upper structures.

So, what, do you periodically do a search for "Waltzing Matilda" and feel compelled to jump in?

This was the best Groiner I've seen, but he gets so ridiculous at the end it's kind of stupid, yo.

OK so this is lame and probably breaks the rules because is not old music, but it is absolutely fascinating and of great interest to pretty much no one everyone.

Weird.

This AM I think it was second time in three days I gave *Brothers and Sisters* a spin, redbook CD -- I very rarely fire up the stereo these days, just watch movies and TV on the disposable netbook when I get kind of burned out.

Oh, here's a weird. I'm really considerate about keeping my amplifiers for pianos and organ turned way down, because (a) nice guy and (b) empathy because I hate the shit out of loud neighbors, and, actually, loud noises of any kind. Am not probably maybe whatever autistic, so shut up asshole. Not that there's anything wrong with that. No! U!!!
Oh yeah, so like the weird is moderate, low volume feeding the Dynacos, and I still have to crank the piano quite a bit just to hear myself when inevitably I walk by and just kind of do the Gene Hackman-in-*The Conversation* thing of playing along with the record, just because, you know, ear training or massive ego or just for fun or who the hell knows why, because water boils slowly and it gets boring and I hate my office chair it hurts my back.

What the shit! That is up and down a great album. I really shedded it a lot, going so far as to write out a transcription of Chuck's solo on "Southbound" I don't know why but a long time ago, but now it's like "ho hum I can cut that Georgia ass in twain with his little ...what's that was a Charley Patton tune, right, the one in E at the end? "Pony Boy" or something like that."

OK, I don't really have anything else to add of substance.

Oh, I did finally figure out, because I'm apparently not detail-oriented when I get excited, that that sumbitch Greg Allman actually did a solid for keyboard players standing up to the guitars by putting "Rambling Man" in Ab (it's a good keyboard key), and, obviously, "Southbound" in C (not that great a keyboard blues key, but still nicer than F#). You can really get a good lesson on why blues pianists dig on E, though, for that Charley Patton tune -- it's like an object lesson.

God I hate young kids who don't know the music -- you fucking learn that shit!

Kind of a summer for what passes for hot weather out on the coast, so mostly I got a few laugfhs out of trying to imitate Ferd Morton -- stripper music, and just in general stuff from the swamp. Partly because I think it's a good way to do on piano -- sounds good -- and partly because I like to make fun of people. Or what we like to call "practicing cultural criticism" or what I like to call "taking an Adorno" (just had a good one, and even found the toilet paper).

But, something happened.

I was withering on the vine. I only got the rhythm for Prokofiev's precipitato down by writing on the white board above the keyboard the appropriate distribution and literally staring at it while just dumbly playing the main idea. So that wasn't getting me anywhere. That's been months and I'm still not off the first page.

Et sim. the Schoenberg Op. 25. I think I have the first four bars of that one. No mas. Also written in letters on the white board.

I still keep my book up, some Beethoven, some Brahms, some Bach, some ragtime, some head arrangements from bebop, just to maintain.

But seriously lacking in terms of ideas. I don't know how or why, but I heard a Monk thing and was like.

That's not just a way to play, that's a way to BE.

Obviously, everyone knows the music and plays the regular tunes like everyone else. And I knew he loved the whole tones and the tritone substition for dominant. And played those shell voicings kind of unabashedly naked.

But I didn't know just how much of a difference that can make in one's life, to feel correctly, to execute without regard.

The great next step in music is the non-step of integrating irony and passion, seamlessly. It is not a step at all. It is a way of life.

In other news, *JR* is a good (not great, but good, like I said) novel.

It's good to make some time in one's life for examining the fruits of other lives.

And maybe get some fruit of one's own.

Or whatever.

Yeah, so right, Monk was what I was going to say, just got sidetracked.

"Introspection" -- didn't know that one, nor "Monk's Mood" so much.

Also, good excuse to do whole tone runs properly (ie without repeating a note to get to the next hand position). It makes a difference.

Also, that bearded motherfucker LOVES that b9. Shit.

All the same, the one that made me go grab a virgin spiral pad of staff paper was "Crepuscule with nellie" -- got to go both hands for that one, double stave it.

Kind of don't want to play it much, because it's kind of a personal tune. Expressionist, and impressionist -- both elements together.

I spent so long loving Monk but playing (trying to) Bud and Mo Hope and Frank Hewitt and Herbie. Monk was like background music.

No, he's a great performer.

Scriabin Op. 57 no. 1 Prelude, "Desir" -- I was rewatching Monsaigneon's TV series (apparently) "Les Chemins de la musique" devoted to Glenn Gould and was astonished this was not in my Dover Preludes and Etudes book.

Hey, 12/8 -- just like a Chicago Blues.

Mellowing out the other day I found one using a very similar motif from...I think Op. 67, but this is the one to watch for.

Revisited a few favorites from "the early years," namely the Bellicoso furioso (or something) and the "Lugubre" and sight-read some other stuff.

Obviously there's not much I can play from the Horowitz-level concert Scriabin -- hyper-technical stuff. But he had something there.

All right, so this isnt really "old music,' but this second half of a live performance of "Shindig!" by Jackie Wilson has some oddities.

So, Billy Preston, whom you may know as "the fifth Beatle," "the black Beatle," or just the first artist signed to Apple Records, is MD for the backing group -- you can see him in some shots at the Hammond. Not exactly a slouch at the keyboard, nor inexperienced at backing singers. I guess the term "prodigy," or "genius" are the sorts of adjectives one wants to apply in his case.

Well, what's up with his fills during the performance of "Danny Boy"? You can see Jackie Wilson giving him the stink eye. And, I think the fills are pretty outrageous -- too much of them and too much blues in them.

Also, the shadowed dancer/performers during one of the earlier performances are pretty funny -- eventually they give up any pretense of playing the instruments (a Wurlitzer electric piano, a trap drums, and a guitarist of some kind, I guess) and just start jamming.

I saw Billy Preston live once. He was part of Ringo Starr's All Star Band tour. He of course performed "Will It Go Round in Circles".

I watched parts of the video and jump through it, I never did see Preston though.

That's truly awesome. Yeah, I think the only time you see Preston is at the very beginning of part 1 of the same concert. A few good seconds of footage early on of him "leading the fellas" from behind the Hammond, doing a part that's pretty genius in its simplicity and drive. I'm guessing he stays at the Hammond -- there's somebody else playing a white grand piano, with the lid open, of course, as was the style at the time (!) who kind of looks like Eubie Blake. ETA well, he was bald and older -- sort of the exact opposite of BP, who even at what looks like a very young age, seemed to have an aversion to "square haircuts."

He just had a real genius for finding the right part to play in any song -- his cover of "Blackbird," for example, has this deceptively tricky piano part. Not the solo, just the rhythmic "part" that goes through the whole song. I think probably ten years after hearing that for the first time, I just gave up trying to play it. "Will It Go Round in Circles" is similar -- nothing too flashy, just the exact right notes at the right tims.

This isn't that old, but I've never heard Bill play like this before. Apparently a very short time before he bought it.

He is just going apeshit for about four minutes, solo piano, prior to his trio coming in.

******

I also haven't heard this since forever. Hambone. She's been around the corner drinking wine and gin. Give it to me like I like it. Jumps in the water with his ass in his pants.

Little James Booker. I think he was about fifteen when that came out.

Performance of Sergei Slonimsjky's "The Bells."

I think I prefer this performance by a much younger pianist -- a little more raw, with a spastic energy I find more fun.

To keep it old-school, here is Tsintsabadze performing the Bugs Bunny piece. A little different than I've heard most other players do it (and quite different to the way it is marked in the edition I have). ETA it seems that most people play the beginning bit with lots of pedal, rather than the more staccato/marcato/whatever way it's written and played by the only version I have on CD by Roberto Szidon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ptfyhBjXj8

That should keep ya goin' for a bit.

Thanks for that, I think.

That was a good community service.

I have a strong desire to make you smell my underpants.

Not as old, but here's a so-called "audio documentary" of James Booker: here. I guess you call it a podcast or whatever, but it's pretty concise, righteous summary,

Recently I was watching some old Flip Wilson shows and he had on some pretty awesome musical guests (non-rock & roll). Louis Armstrong, Lena Horne, Bobby Darin, B.B. King & Ray Charles were the best of the crop. This was out of 7 episodes I watched by the way. The comedy segments of this old variety show were often weak but the music was top notch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUkbjO8dkDI

EIN GUTER MENSCH!!!! Now that's some music.

I've decided to memorize all of the Op. 126 Batagetelles of Beethoven by my birthday at the end of March, for some reason. I'm fucking sick of them, I just want Beethoven to be over. now

He was a slick, flashy virtuoso egomaniac WAH WAH puling about some ugly German bitch who didn't cop his unit or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C78HBp-Youk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KTsXHXMkJA

Anyway, here's a nice little article abut Rosalyn Tureck with the headline/tagline/whatever: "Everything about her was grand, even her pettiness."

I think she was about 5'2" IRL. I knew somebody like that once, but I still like Tureck.

As a further point of interest, I now think that the B-minor Rhapsody of Brahms is not exactly just a cute little piece of fluff, but has some clever harmonies. Not just when the "A" section returns (after the two big 2-handed scales), but even in the first "A" section, provided you actually look at the notes exactly as written, and not just treat the piece as being "for effect" only.

Not a great piece of music, necessarily, but enough in there for it being worth playing correctly.

Also, the 2-part Inventions of Bach are pretty genius -- you can trip out your mind by trying (sometimes successfully) to hear each of the two voices as independent, and not related to the keyboard implementation. You can actually dream these pieces.

Just "discovered" this Prelude and Fugue by Bach yesterday. It's not part of the WTC, but it appears to be a pretty late composition. I linked to Gould's version, because he plays it well and why not -- but unless you like the taste of vomit in your mouth, I wouldn't look at the accompanying hagiographic slide "show" of still pictures. Here's some footage of Tureck playing it live -- it's pretty old-timey, though. She and Gould both have similar ideas about the level of expression called for in the very short yet effusive prelude.

Forgot about Squib Cakes. I forgot how long they give Chester Thompson on the organ.

Also I've had this lying around on a hard drive for years, but haven't heard it in a long time -- Kenny Barron at Bradley's. I don't remember why I only had this track from the album, but I clearly didn't recognize how clever Barron's little compositional thing as an outro was, nor how non-ostentatious his...I guess you could call it "sequencing" of some not exactly "out" but not strictly bebop lines are. I think I remember hearing it quite a long time ago and thinking "hey, there's some pentatonic stuff I should learn," but I don't agree with that assessment now -- it's an outstanding side.

Oh yeah, about two days ago some of the lyrics to "Compared to What" came to mind (there was a cover by somebody as the theme to the recent *Man From UNCLE*, or credit song, or something), as performed by Les McCann. Tired old rednecks, rolling logs, hate the human love of that stinking mutt, etc.

I was curious so I looked up in one of the Chuck Sher "New Real Books" and found a leadsheet (lyrics, chords, and a very basic melody). It is written, above the sample drum pattern, "cowbells throughout." I'll check when I get home. Couldn't find a SNL link, so here's the McCann good version, if you haven't heard it in a while. ETA I forgot there was a reason I liked Les McCann's playing a lot as a teenager -- he's cooking right along on that one and Cold Duck Time. I remember the album, I just forgot he could put together some pretty cogent, terse solos on piano.

My new discovery: Berg's Op. 2 songs. I still can't tell if that dingo-fucker is trying to fuck with me about *Wozzeck*, but, yes, I like Berg.

The Piano Sonata and these songs, I find, are worthwhile to examine in detail. And, say what you want about Adorno, fake philosopher, but he was a good musicologist (as far as I'm concerned -- I'm not a scholar of music, nor any kind of music historian, so I have a small pool of analysts of whom I'm aware with which to compare).

That sounded really faggy, so just call me the most deeply closeted man in the world, if it makes you happy. "Well, you know, Man o' War, after they retired him from racing, they put him out to stud. And he had, on an average, uh, about a hundred and twenty, a hundred and thirty foals every year. And he lived to be thirty-six. And then when he died, they did an autopsy, and they found out that he was a raving queen."

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jizzelbin

Oh yeah, about two days ago some of the lyrics to "Compared to What" came to mind (there was a cover by somebody as the theme to the recent *Man From UNCLE*, or credit song, or something), as performed by Les McCann. Tired old rednecks, rolling logs, hate the human love of that stinking mutt, etc.

---

Yeah, well, you don't see it often, but I was so fucking stupid I don't deserve music.

Yeah, so I didn't know the Roberta Flack version.

My only, lame, defense, is that I know Roberta Flack was Les's bitch -- I have the CDs to prove it. I just didn't know she did the tune.

Still, in my credit, she tears that song a new one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG_RvYTfDk8

Aretha could have had a little cousin.

If James Booker was black https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylxx...ature=youtu.be

Here's something to soothe those jangled nerves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzZ_z6eMUVk

That was nice. I didn't quite make out enough cowbell, though.

cowbell: http://imgur.com/9OfnTqO

Angela Hewitt playing Bach's Sinfonia no 2 for "keyboard." Thunderous bass? (Can't find a youtube link) [ETA the reference to thunderous bass is to something Landowska wrote about barbarous pianists who can't deal with the harpsichord or possibly the clavichord's elegance. She really is rolling quite along. No sustain pedal, but she's pulling her nuts out on this one. I like, not that anyone asked, the Busoni edition -- he notates the ornamentation wrong, but it's a more coherent score than the Wiener Urtext one. Harder to sight-read from, but these aren't supposed to be sight-read, except as an initial stage]

Perhaps, but brisk tempo a welcome after most of my life stuck with Gould's idea of these dirge-like interpretations of certain pieces of Bach. OTOH, I far prefer Gould's quick, matter of fact Sinfonia no. 1 -- it's really one single idea, the whole piece, and should be played as such, in one breath. OTOH, Hewitt's contrast of the brilliant arpeggios with the "meaning" of the motif in Sinfonia 15 is more mature than Gould's sort of flashy idea (which, however, is appropriate in the A minor Invention IMHO -- I remember bits of that from when I was a kid, but my technique was not so good as to play it that quickly).

a minor waltz of Chopin.

I don't know who the guy playing is, but that's a nice waltz, anyway -- I never bothered sight-reading it beyond the first page, as a kid, but I found a very rare sense of well-being just now playing badly through that and some of the Preludes. I forgot the "Raindrop" prelude was pretty long and had all that key change stuff -- it's pretty cool as well.

Plus, Drax plays the Raindrop prelude in *Moonraker*, and Bobby plays that other one in *5 Easy Pieces*, so there's that amount of stupidity as well.

I changed my mind that Chopin was just a little ponce -- actually kind of refreshing from my ongoing Bach adventures. ETA I might add that a minor one to my small (I'm deliberately keeping the list small and manageable) "list" of things to put in my bag. FTR, that's Beethoven Op. 126 (no. 4, the first bit of no. 6, most of no. 5, and the first part of no. 2), two preludes of Scriabin (can't remember their numbers), Bach Bourree 1&2 from Engl Ste in A maj, Sinfonias 1, 2, 15, Toccata from Partita in e minor, Joplin Solace and the Easy Winners, and maybe a few others I've forgotten. Most of those played before, but either forgot or only half-remembered -- just to have an active repertoire of "legit" pieces that isn't me just screwing around on whatever pop tune comes into my head at the moment. Not coming back to the Brahms pieces I did (the Op. 118 no. 6 Intermezzo, the rhapsody in b minor, the A major intermezzo, the Scottish Ballade) -- not enough room in my head to commit those to permanent memory. Nor anything else. Just those.

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Randy Newman strikes again.

No, I'm not thinking about my cousin's daughter who just graduated high school nor her mother.

Nope.

I am actually proud to be friends-of-a-friend recently of an up-and-coming poet. My friend, with whom I shared a tight corner office over ten years ago, is in Calcutta, and I don't remember where this other guy lives, but his FB thing is to do this ongoing poem in Bangla.

Probably short, though.

Sincer we're doing that, my girl is, always, killing it on the Latin piano.

ETA I think I'm a rotten bastard, but I like the thought of those little hands choking my dick. Probably a crude way of putting it, but, hey, if you can't be sexist in music, when can you be?

Talking about My girl

:)

The magic of youtube's autoplay: for my cookies, anyway, this comes up. McGriff doing bass and RH a digital acoustic piano. I had no idea who it was until halfway through the jam.

Hank Crawford's my guy, so I shouldn't have been surprised, but he really dug a little deep for that one.

Could have fooled me into thinking it was one of those Count Basie records on Pablo from the sixties.

Musicologist Laitz touts his new book with some helpful examples at the piano. Pretty good -- for once somebody says something not stupid about analysis on youtube. People think analysis has something to do with their completely incorrect misconceptions of what it means to use a formal language as a tool of thought. It's the same error cultural critics make when they try to talk about Anglo-Austro-American philosophy which is, since you asked, the primary place where research is performed in neuroscience, mathematical logic, knowledge representation, machine learning, and ontologies in computer science.

Namely, a bunch of gibberish.

Thinking is simple. Notation is merely a helpful tool. Vertical analysis, Laitz stresses, is so limited and ineptly practiced that it is not just the wrong approach, but it is worse than wrong.

Here's a question: I'm wondering who these people are who aren't romanticizing adolescents who prefer Gould's later recording of the Goldberg's to the 1955 recording. I won't say I've outgrown Gould, because I still pay attention to his recordings when it's a piece I'm trying to hack out (one should listen to all interpretations, after all), or the Goldbergs (many of which are beyond my technique to sight-read, even slowly), although I'm not interested in them anymore except the first variation.

The 1955 fast tempo of variation 1 is correct, and anything much slower is bizarre and perverse.

Also, who actually likes the Sinfonia in C and c minor at slower tempi? Gould was right to play the first Sinfonia (C) at a typewriter-touch-typist pace, and was wrong to play the second (c minor) at a less-than-brisk pace. Those are student pieces, but IMHO the Sinfonias are about equivalent in technical demands of anything else Bach wrote for keyboard.

I think I posted this link to McGriff and Crawford doing "Everday," somewhere above, but I hadn't actually heard the guitarist until now.

If you have at all a perceptive mind, you can "see" Hank Crawford's internal gears turning as he ends up realizing, "WTF, I'm done with my solo how long do I have to signal to these squares?" And Donald Pleasance on guitar picks it up and delivers what is, to my ears, about one of the best-crafted live solos ordered-up-on-the-spot there was. He literally saved the day.

I'm betting Hank Crawford might have been doing a bit of drinking, that day, but hey, in jazz it doesn't matter, so long as it plays.

Resolved. Acceptable piano sonatas of Beethoven for people of modest technique and exceptional taste: Op. 26, Op. 27 no. 1 (we played no. 2, but we aren't twelve years old, so we choose not to), and Op. 109, which is the most accessible of the late sonatas. Thirty years later, after long gaps in playing, Op. 111 is still not a reasonable piece to play unless you get paid a lot of money. ETA except the first movement -- I was always after the variations in the second movement as a kid, while, then as now, am incapable of doing the multiple internal trills, unless, I suppose, I were paid a shitload of money and had a lot of time. The 1st movement's contrapuntal devices has begun to appeal to me, and it is reasonable to play, but probably only for fun, since it is a unified work IMHO.[/eta]

And, apostrophically, the whole of Op. 126 is, in practice and theory, reasonable to commit to memory once one understands the theory (IMHO it helps to make sense of the piece, therefore memorize AND interpret in a sensible way). I've been playing this since I was 12, but it helps to have a theoretical understanding of the cadences, and it's seeming reasonable to just keep reading it from the score, say, once a week, and work to memorize it all, and, so to speak bake it into the brain with understanding. The ledger lines in no. 3 are a PITA, but, whatever. I used to love #4 when I was about twelve, and #6, so those were nice to polish up.

And, Op. 2 no 1, is worthwhile to revisit, although maybe not worth the effort to memorize and master, but certainly to read through at the keyboard, although the last movement is harder to read at full tempo, but close enough to get the idea.

Condensed: one could profitably learn Op. 26 and Op. 27 no. 1 and gain considerable insight into the historical relation of classical form into styles used in the 1830s and so forth. In addition to solidifying the technique required to play and improvise in the classical style, a la Haydn, and, especially Mozart. NB: these two should only be played as whole units. Also, note the figuration similarities in Op. 26 "Rondo" and Mozart, "Jeunehomme" concerto's "Rondo" (incidentally, similar technique used in the presto agitato from Op. 27 no 2, but we don't like that any more, even though we find it's not as terrifying as it seemed when struggling as a young pre-teeen).

Also, note the Op. 26 "Rondo" similarity to Chopin's figurations in various of his little pieces --it is perhaps no coincidence that Chopin was known to have played this sonata alone of Beethoven's in public. Obviously, the marche funèbre, but that's another topic.

And that is all I have to say re Beethoveno at this moment.

Oh, and I revise my statement from 2014 re Brahms. The ones I learned as a preteen/young teenager were the Dies Irae from Op. 118, and the A major from the same, and the B minor Rhapsody.

Now, for a few weeks sporadically sight-reading, I like the "Fantasies" Op. 116, and the Op. 117 -- the Capriccio is a nice little show-off piece, and also good prep to doing Joey de Francesco diminished chords arpeggiated like in "When Johnny Comes Marching Home," and the E major intermezzo is kind of curious, and fun to do the elementary crossing-hands.

Way on the back burner, but I enjoy reading at the keyboard Op. 116, 117, and 118, as sets of music. Am not so chuffed about Op.119, but whatever.

It blows my mind that the young Ludwig Wittgenstein grew up hearing Brahms perform at his family's house.

These later pieces amuse me in that regard, but also that Brahms seemed to resolve his younger (teenage years) of playing dance music in brothels and so forth for spare change and his quietly revolutionary harmonies, always within context of a strictly (?) non-programmatic conservatism.

Also, it is a great place, as is Beethoven, to experiment with using as little sustain pedal as possible, given what we know about the instruments used at the time. Gould, of course, takes it to the extreme, but I think he was just screwing around, and, anyway, he's just some guy with good technique and some interesting ideas. Perhaps "interesting" is a better way to put it.

Although I'm still using Chopin's Prelude #3 as a kind of LH etude (it's a nice piece, and I don't mean to diminish it, but it's as hard as the Revolutionary Etude for LH, but much better), and #1 as a memory exercise, and I still do waltzes ..... don't remember the opera .....67 or 69, maybe ..... but the Db and the C# minor (there's a third one in the same opus, but I don't know it). With the goal of doing my version of Booker's "Black Minute Waltz" similar treatment to the C# minor from the same opus, I have a lot more time in my mind for late Brahms.

And then there's Liszt's transcription of Berlioz's Symphonie for piano. I don't have a lot of time to want to give to Berlioz, unlike Debussy, who was as remarkable a man, but also a tremendous composer for piano. No grand designs for playing all of Claude's preludes, but pick and choose, and at least sight read.

And, of romantics, there are late nights when I'll sight read Schumann's Kinderszenen, front to back. Not played well, but sometimes it's appropriate.

ETA oh, and to revise from May 2016, it is Bach and Debussy who are the extrema. Filling in the gaps is an historical and joyful enterprise, hence my revisiting Beethoven, and learning Mozart and Haydn from afresh. The early romantics from 1830 on are diversions, and Scarlatti is one of the missing links. That should make plain my assertion that approaching history with an awareness of artistic expression is worthwhile, and should be part of a standard curriculum, if one is, as they are, teaching the literary drivel from similar epochs.

I was just distracted messing around with "Tiger Rag," which I don't really know except I can half-remember the melody in Bb and it's got that one stop-time thing in it.

I thought my LH was good at around quarter note = 160 beats per minute, and heard Jelly Roll play it quite a bit slower, and felt "OK, that's interesting, maybe next week I'll do more on that style, and spend a half-hour learning some tricks off the record."

Just now heard Art Tatum's record from sometime in 1933.

That shit is fucking scary.

First of all, he's not only playing fast, everything he improvises is about quadruple that, literally. Jelly Roll and me, just kind of lazily get by and make some shit up.

Second of all, he's playing all kinds of diminished triads, walking them up and down, like the passage in like bar 16 or so of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody #9.

Third of all, it's dispiriting.

Fourth of all, he kind of looks like Forest Whittaker.

That is all.

ETA

Fifth is, I believe, the same recording I have.

Sixth, the reason I have the record is I thnk I have a transcription of this performance on paper. That is a reason to not be dispirited, because I can use some of the left hand ridiculous stuff as part of my regular scales and stuff, and it sounds like a lot of it is using that fngers 3-4-5 of the LH, which is exactly what's needed for Chopin's Prélude #3 (G major), which is a long way off. As it is, the only thing I have to improve is Bach's Bourée II from the A Major English Suite, and just methodical practice at that hand motion.

That is also all.

You might have fun playing in this 78rpm collection: https://archive.org/details/georgebl...wnloads&page=3

Thanks! Well, it'll be somewhat amusing to explore later. Possibly while rip-roaring drunk and bored.

Note that on the front page, there's Ethel Merman singing "They Say It's Wonderful" (shut up, man, it's a good tune, covered by Coltrane, Don Patterson did it on the B-3, Bill Evans did it, and probably some others) adjacent to the stalwart-sounding "Tuskegee Institute Singers" doing "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot."

I don't know why, but I find that amusing. Haven't heard either yet (my TLS-capable connection is not I can have patience for right now).

Something about that combination makes me think of murdering Doris Day.

For me, that's not a bad thought. She just..............makes me want to punch her in the face.

I'm not a Doris Day fan myself. I don't love her acting, singing or think she was a Hollywood hottie. Though I've never desired to punch her in the face, just turn off her movies and TV show. I like some of the old Blues I found with some digging and the earliest recording of Rhapsody in Blue I've ever heard was cool. Plus I stumbled onto an old favorite of mine: Rosemary Clooney's Come On-A My House https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mriXncI96lw

Stop distracting me! I just found out about Catalan numbers...oh, well, since I'm here.

Yeah, OK, maybe Doris Day doesn't deserve to be executed, gangland-style. And that tune "Secret Love" is pretty good. And Sly Stone turned "Que Sera, Sera" into a really good-sounding record.

That early Rhapsody in Blue would be good to hear.

Rosemary Clooney -- always seemed to be singing on, like Sunday nights or something at the Rainbow Room. Never heard her sing, on record much less in fancy live.

In 2 parts, earliest Rhapsody in Blue recording apparently.
https://archive.org/details/rhapblue11924 & https://archive.org/details/rhapblue21924

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

Also, note the figuration similarities in Op. 26 "Rondo" and Mozart, "Jeunehomme" concerto's "Rondo" (incidentally, similar technique used in the presto agitato from Op. 27 no 2, but we don't like that any more, even though we find it's not as terrifying as it seemed when struggling as a young pre-teeen).

---

ETA note to self, that's called the Alberti figure or bass. And, yes, it's nice to know and is a pretty good technique for just improvising, as in trying to make a pastiche of classical style. Once you know it has a name and its applications, it's somehow easier to just get it happening.

Just wanted to add the current state of the art to the mix.

@WhatExit, thanks for the links. I still have two more 24oz cans of Camo Ice 10.6 to get through, and then I may develop the patience to get over my slow TLS connection (unsecured sites are fine, it just takes longer over 1x or 3G to do streaming audio).

I will add, though -- I haven't thought about older music records in a long time. For me, Jelly Roll is just part of the vocabulary, and the tunes are sort of burned into the brain. Last evening I took five minutes and brought down off the shelf some of Eubie Blake's tunes from a transcription book. You know, the Charleston Rag is still fun to play, and .... I guess it's nice that Blake actually got to make a nice living (?) off some of those shows he wrote with the other guy, Ray Noble? Some big musicals, I guess, that probably made a lot of money. He might have been like the Allen Toussaint of ragtime -- composer, producer, and so-so player. I'm not going to listen to Blake's records again, after thirty years, but it did give me a nice alternative option to putting "Kitten on the Keys" into active rotation. I haven't played any of this for a long, long time, but the enjoyment factor is pretty high, just to have the option of recalling from memory some of those "showbuster" tunes. I've still always retained some small part of Joplin pieces like "Solace," "Bethena," not perfectly from memory, but mostly just screw around with fake-improvisation style. There's some value in expanding the memory to include the proper versions, I guess.

Still looking forward to checking out the Rosemary Clooney -- never heard her sing, and it might amuse me. I hope she's a hip jazz singer, like Nancy King, Annie Ross, or Anita O'Day -- I can't say I'll be able to listen to Ethel Merman, Judy Garland type "belt-it-out" drama.

Huh. Yet again I find something I didn't expect to be there.

I kind of thought I had Barry Harris's bag figured out, after how many years, but he surprised me with some new ideas. Pretty good, I'd say. Well, I thought so.

ETA for the movie buffs, about six or eight months ago I accidentally watched the movie that corny old jazz standard came from, called *The Uninvited*. I about shit myself when I heard that tune in the movie. Apparently that's where it's from.

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Rosemary Clooney's Come On-A My House https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mriXncI96lw

---

Wow.

That is quite a singer.

Nice tack piano too.

Nice!

Here's an oddity. I came across an old manilla folder with some lead sheets for mostly Great American Song Book (you know, "standards") tunes.

For some reason, I thought I had made a master list of tunes for each season of the year, but I don't think my pencilled notes quite reflected what I had in my head at the time.

So, for "Fall/Autumn" tunes, I've got some really corny "theme songs," and, a combination of what's in my notes from years ago and off the top of my head, what ones am I missing?

Autumn Leaves
September Song
September in the Rain+
Autumn in New York+
Here's That Rainy Day+
'Tis Autumn*
Lullaby of the Leaves*
Autumn Serenade*
Indian Summer*
It Might as Well be Spring

sort-of-fits
The Things We Did Last Summer+
I Remember April+
Willow Weep for Me (I forgot when weeping willows die or weep or whatever, but I still think the tune is a classic B3 Burner in 3-time, plus easy to remember)+
The Lamp is Low
A Foggy Day

(A "*" denotes I've never played that tune, and have no idea why I have a lead sheet to it).
(A "+" indicates I actually like the tune and would play if it I felt like being a cheesy lounge lizard, or making the effort to make a good arrangement)
(Unannotated means I probably remember all or most of the tune and don't have a strong feeling about it).

I left out all the ones that are just about raining or shining, or plain bad weather, or covering waterfronts, just because they don't seem that specific. Also, anything about melancholic moods I left out, for the same reason -- also, too many of them.

So, what ones from the regular book of standards (things an actual musician or jazz singer would be likely to know) am I missing?

Yeah, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8-nWq6pqag]Trifonov[/url] sort of tipped the scales to me reading more seriously the Brahms chaconne. Meh, I have a nice regimen of doing the Chopin op.28#3 and scales and home-spun exercises to work LH 432, but nuffim like good music, I guess

Wow. I saw this from a link on some piano nerd board. I don't believe I've ever heard or seen Liberace play. [url=https://youtu.be/QmUhMIHAP9Y?t=10]Tiger Rag, Flamboyant[/style].

That is just too much, man.

To extirpate that little show from the mind, probably best to chase it with a real version from Tatum.

In the baseball spirit, this is San Diego's organist. He claims he hit more than a few clams on the pedals on this one, and that his footwork isn't the best, but sounds fine to me.

https://youtu.be/JiwZA-5HIGY

Heh. It's funny that he sings along, too. But his conclusion is the best I've heard for that song!

Yeah, he's a pretty funny dude. He gets into some details of what his job is like over at the Keyboard Magazine forum. Nice little inside baseball view of how the guys operate in the major clubs.

ETA youtube had in the "suggested" or whatever list when I clicked on the link this performance of Steve Gadd with Richard Tee.

Wow, I don't know how they got Eddie Gomez to play doghouse bass -- kind of slumming for him, I'd think, or maybe just a fun chance for him. I still can't fathom Richard Tee's flawless RH octaves -- it comes up in classical music, but not in improvising.

Of course Steve Gadd, nothing I can say beyond that's a dude who knows the trap drums.

Oh, I should apologize for the extended 1980s "saxman" as above -- Ronnie Cuber's a name player, but to contemporary ears/eyes, it's kind of a bit too close to the Bill Pullman (?) character in....the Lynch movie...*Lost Highway* or the Jon (?) Hamm character from SNL.

Still, it was an OK "recommendation" from the youtube people -- everyone can use some Richard Tee and Steve Gadd every now and then, and Cornell Dupree on guitar held down the rhythm.

Maybe not the greatest performance, but it was an OK jam, I guess.

As penance, here's one version of the classic Steve Gadd/Richard Tee "Take the A Train". I've been trying my hand at this arrangement for years, pages of handwritten transcribed notes but Tee's LH octaves are...I don't know, steroids or something.

Speaking of Osetinskaya, here's a little bijou https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=3A7T9Yo_NSY of the Toccata from Bach's e minor keyboard partita.

I think Polina is an original, brave even, interpreter of Bach.

I am somewhat saddened that the content of her music is probably drowned out by the acclaim of her striking good looks, but well, I can't do anything about that. I hope she continues to record as long as wax exists.

Please have yourself a favor and compare her performance to those of András Schiff, Angela Hewitt, and the several of Gould. Osetinskaya's rendition is of interest, I assure you.

Here's one from the good old Thanksgiving Day bunker. I don't know if the video preview will show up, but I'd expect anyone can guess what it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLSveRGmpIE

No link, just putting a plug in for the 1st "contrapunctus" from Bach's Art of Fugue. I was in a somber, delirious state, so put aside my regular practice schedule to read this (I'm familiar with it, but I have to read it carefully and slowly).

I'm not sure what the deal is, but at this point, having become pretty familiar with most (not all -- I'm sometimes surprised by one I overlooked) of the Well-Tempered Clavier fugues (setting aside the Preludes -- I can often find something better of comparable length from Bach to substitute, although there are some fun Preludes, like the A minor from BkI, or the E major, C minor from Bk2, among others), there is something very different about this, one of Bach's very last efforts in fugue.

Not so much interested in analyzing it, but just the experience of being aware of the tight control and a kind of unspeakable logic is invigorating to me.
////////////
Also, printed out a piano reduction of the Prelude to Wagner's Meistersinger, played a few pages. Damn, how could that one have escaped me up to now! I don't know what to say about it, but the tunefulness combined with stark, strange harmonies is pretty cute.

Yes, when I was quoting and TNPing about Jung I went back yet again and saw the Knightley movie I guess a week ago -- the omnipresence of Wagner's music kind of reminded me of a period in life when I was first discovering the Ring, and Tristan.

It's probably a mistake to let too many years go by without recalling his music, just for the chance to find something new.
/////////////
Also, Mozart's A major piano sonata, K331 (the last movement is the "Rondo alla Turca," played as a kid but didn't know the rest of it). I was alerted on relistening to András Schiff's lecture on Beethoven's Op. 26 piano sonata (the one with the funeral march) that one of the few precedents of beginning a sonata with a movement consisting of theme and variations was this one.

Charming, but the variations are extremely imaginative at first glance -- kind of tricky, actually, to figure out how they're supposed to sound by just reading the score. Lots of syncopation (rhythmic stuff).

It came up here recently, the D minor keyboard concerto of Bach (I believe that's the only one in Dm, but anyway, the famous one).

I don't have a link, but Glenn Gould's American television debut, with Leonard Bernstein conducting (unfortunately a rather too large orchestra, IMHO) is highly recommended, particularly in contrast to Osetinskaya (I think I spelled that right).

Decidedly subdued, deliberate, non-virtuosic performance -- but by no means an eccentric or outageously s l o w tempo.

Just different.

Highly recommended. Not to mention I could probably play it at that tempo, whereas I'd have trouble turning Osetinskaya's pages and....don't say it....admiring her.....form.

That's OK to say, I've decided!

Oh, I just thought of this last week sometime.

Sort of the companion piece to the opening movement of the Bach D minor concerto -- The beginning "movement" of Bach's A minor English Suite.

Geez. That is just a beast. I don't know how many bars it is, but it is certainly many pages, and is just a whopper. Not all that challenging to play, any given number of measures, it's just long, hot and hairy.

And kind of a similar "eerie" sounding vibe.

No thanks, life's too short!

Well, there you go. Vincent Laguardia Gambini (aka Joe Pesci) wishes you a merry fucking Christmas, with that fat fuck Santa Claus and everything.

https://youtu.be/hawOAtZcW9o

Here's a little treat, the vengeance aria from Magic Flute, shot from the studio, with the very nice looking Patricia Petitbon singing. She's a pretty good singer, too. I don't know if the carpet matches the drapes, so don't ask me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLs-Z47oFYw

I came across the original version of one scotch one bourbon one beer by Amos Milburn. It's not bad, but boy does George Thorogood own this song.

No kidding. You know, I remember the Thorogood (and don't forget the Destroyers!), of course, but I really like Milburn's version.

Sort of the way I'd ask for that at a bar -- just pour the drinks, son, that's the way I'll have it done.

I don't have a link, but I had a good clip of Luis Bonfá, sort of the godfather of Brazilian samba on guitar before bossa nova craze, demonstrating on American talk show while faking the tamborim on the body of his acoustic.

But, Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue in D minor is still making me excited. Read through it yesterday -- it's a long fugue, but surprisingly, it's not one of the more complicated of Bach's, once you get on board with the general strangeness of the chromatic steps. A masterpiece, as is András Schiff's performance, like all of his more recent Bach performances (I believe he's rerecorded or done in concert all of Bach's keyboard music recently, at least the solo material).

No mistake, it's difficult, and it would be a challenge to memorize all of it, but it would be more fun to just improvise around the structure of the Fantasy, as I suspected Bach himself would have (they didn't memorize shit back then).

Luis Bonfá demonstrating samba + indigenous Brazilian/African percussion, guitar solo.

Kind of too bad the 1960s were the last decade a man could have a rad moustache without looking like a molester or a cop. Alain Delon had a good one, Bonfá made it work. Oh well.

Killing a few minutes this morning before girding my loins for a little walk on a gray, misty day up to the grocery store.

I was somewhat proud of myself to be able to hack through Bach's E Minor Toccata (for keyboard, non-organ) -- but even more delighted to see how Bach had constructed it, just as a set of kind of discrete little blocks, and this VERY nice, pretty lengthy fugue (the subject and countersubject -- well, I didn't analyze it, but that's how I view it, rather than one extremely long subject -- were EXTREMELY appealing to me. sort of funny, as in made me laugh a little bit, as well as enjoy the very broad, almost rock-and-roll textures, compare to the A major Sinfonia, is how I would).

I mean, I've heard it and played some of it before, but it's just getting easier to hack through sightreading longer pieces.

So, I have a new piece, in addition to the olde French Suite in E Major (kind of a kid's piece, but as usual András Schiff is my inspiration on recent video for going into it and making the most of it -- very nice Sarabande, in it, also), that, while I can't get distracted and do work on them now, sort of gets added to the heap of "things I'll read through every now and then when I either don't want to do memorization/analysis work, or just screw off and play some rock or blues).

I'm surprised I never linked to my favorite Bobby Darin song:

Beyond the Sea > Mack the Knife

Good call. I think the last time I heard that was probably in a movie. Good tune and performance.

Although, while I'm not a big fan of the original Mack the Knife in three time from the show, it still provided a good template for what Hammond organists call the "squabbling" technique of doing a melody line in octaves.

Just lost another of the old Italian Crooners of my parents days. Vic Damone just passed.


This is pretty special: Judy Garland & Vic Damone - West Side Story medley (The Judy Garland Show)



As a bonus, here is the greatest crooner singing "Summer Wind"

Damn right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXMBMM3

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

Damn right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXMBMM3

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Video not available, what were you trying to link to?

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

Damn right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXMBMM3

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Video not available, what were you trying to link to?

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What else? Mr. Dynamite, Mr. Please Please Please, Mr. doing th COLD SWEAT.

Bad motherfucking tune, you heard right.

Just heard a nice concert performance by Apollo's Fire, an excellent Baroque ensemble, of Telemann's Don Quixote Suite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gmOQazAYH4

You know, as much legit "classical" music as I study and listen to, I've yet to hear a legit conductor give good "hit me!" or "stay there!"

Kind of too bad.

Well, I make up for it in my own way by doing it for solo keyboard works by Bach and especially Scarlatti. "Yeah! Hunh! Hit me! Keep it there!"

ETA course I don't say it out loud, just like I don't beat time with my foot, except invisibly inside my shoes.

Propriety!

Yeah, hunh! Give me some! Let's give the bass some! Hunh!

ETA That's not entirely true -- just at home, particularly with Bach-->Mozart where I not using sustain pedal, I'll sometimes just beat time with my right foot -- hey, why not? Well, the rhythm is supposed to be entirely mental but keyboard is not just fingers -- it's a whole upper body instrument, using correct technique, as I strive to, but still, it's maybe 90% mental 10% physical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCRae5mRoRE

Oh ETA the nice thing about that is they modulate up from A-->Bb.

You're not supposed to do that, but that's how I do it.

In fact, usually, like Aretha and regular folks modulate up by a whole step, not a half-step like that.

Which is fine, and sounds a little smoother (that way is SUPPOSED to sound surprising, IMHO, but people are more used to it off the records and stuff, you know, BB King, James Brown, all they did that on the tunes everybody learned off those records), but hey, maybe the once a day I just run a blues or boogie through the keys, I just like that jarring sound of the half step.

Plus, I don't know, never mind.

Important information, I'm sure.

EETA yeah, I know the way most players get through all keys is just doing the circle, going up by fourths, but I fall asleep doing that, it's really tedious and boring to me. And if you don't like it, ess my dee.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCRae5mRoRE

---

I love that version.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by What Exit?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jizzelbin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCRae5mRoRE

---

I love that version.

---

You know it, babe.

Cut 'em out, ride 'em in.

"In A -- that's a good country music key!"

:smile:

Oh, man I gottu start playig they real old records, like we used to do

Example? Of course. That''s how I started playing real music., just doing off the records, and stop trying to copy Glenn Gd at age 12 r whatever.

Head 'em up cut out 'em out ride 'em, rawhide!

Yeah it wasnt till I hooked iip with those rcok and rollersthat te whole Geoge Jones Al Stricklin thing made me get out of that Ray Charles/Mac Rebennck/Bud Powell/Otis Spnn thing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUUyFrHERpU

Shit.

I haven't heard this in a little while. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7yp...ature=youtu.be

Miss Aretha Franklin, doing just a regular blues in C. It could have been her on piano, or anybody, just regular old blues.

In fact, I just lurched my way over to the piano to play along and, yeah, it's actually been a long time since I played in C myself -- gotta not forget!

Sing it, Aretha! I'd never heard that song before. Good stuff.

Aretha is the Queen for damn good reason. 20 years ago, VH1 had some sort of battle of the Divas. She blew away all the other women. It wasn't even vaguely a fair fight.
Here is a fun one:

That is great footage. Yep.

I don't have an opinion about Steve Allen, but shit did he get some white hot musicians on there.

ETA Yeah, what it is about Aretha is she just hits everything about being a woman, IMHO, and she preaches it to everyone. It's pretty much pornography with a veneer of barely-concealed repespectabiity.

Hey Nineteen. She don't remember the Queen of Soul.

EETA Oh, and anybody trying to learn American-style piano -- just learn it off Aretha and Ray's records. That's the basics.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jizzelbin

That is great footage. Yep.

I don't have an opinion about Steve Allen, but shit did he get some white hot musicians on there.

ETA Yeah, what it is about Aretha is she just hits everything about being a woman, IMHO, and she preaches it to everyone. It's pretty much pornography with a veneer of barely-concealed repespectabiity.

Hey Nineteen. She don't remember the Queen of Soul.

EETA Oh, and anybody trying to learn American-style piano -- just learn it off Aretha and Ray's records. That's the basics.

---

EEETA Oh dig how she's not too happy about the guitarist behind her.

That woman doesn't hide ANYTHING.

Huh. I never realized she could play piano - thought she was "just" a singer. She knows her way around that keyboard!

Quote:

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Originally posted by Elendil's Heir

Huh. I never realized she could play piano - thought she was "just" a singer. She knows her way around that keyboard!

---

Well she can play piano, but boy oh boy can she sing and it is easier to just belt them out then to do both. I heard she learned how to play piano by ear but on the other side her mother was suppose to be a very good piano player before she died and she probably learned some from her mom early.

There is also the little added awesomeness that she was good friends with Dionne Warwick & Cissy Houston*; so Whitney Houston grew up calling Aretha & Dionne Aunts.

Cissy by the way can really sing, I think she was better then her daughter.
This is probably too rock for this thread but I'll link to her Yesterday anyway. I understand this is the most covered song of all time, Cissy gives it a lot of Gospel.
Another Folk-Rock song made Gospel by Cissy: Bridge over Troubled Water.



* who I ran a stage in Red Bank for her once in the 90s for a Jazz & Blues Festival.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Elendil's Heir

Huh. I never realized she could play piano - thought she was "just" a singer. She knows her way around that keyboard!

---

Damn right.

It may not seem that flashy playing, but you can take it as gospel that it is not that easy to hold down a groove and hit the right licks.

Even without singing on top of it. I bet you even a honkey like me can play all the same notes on that without thinking about it -- it's just not that easy to do it right, takes some practice and lots of listening/assimilating that groove.

FWIW, I'm pretty convinced she did that solo, the one in Bb, "Sweet Baby, Since you been gone" (or whatever that tune is called).

That style is just kind of the bridge between the old blues piano and rock and roll/R&B foundations. Just keep hitting the right notes.

Of course I agree, her real gift is vox -- lots of people can do her thing on piano, and because of bleed-through on the vocal microphone, they probably did do that a lot of switching on the studio recordings.

Hell, Fats Domino wasn't a bad piano player at all, in case there was any doubt, neither was Little Richard -- they didn't play their own piano on a lot of records for just that reason, not enough isolation between vocal mic and the piano. You just get some kid to copy their licks and they fill it in live in the studio, or in post.

Bout that time of the year. Yeah, the Queen is not this kind of keyboardist.

But hey, damn few people are!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZysMDFg16g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6FlS8jT88U

You know, as many times as I played this, including live with some kid guitarists in public, and as many versions I've heard, from instrumental to...well, everybody can play this and does. ETA, yeah, it sounds easy, but trust me it has to be done right, and with none of that fake guitar chord bullshit, pardon my language.

Heh. Aretha is the only one who put a new spin on RC's "Drown/Tears" -- I didn't get over to the keys to see, but I bet you anything she was in C or Bb. I'll bet you anything that was her playing piano+singing at the same time. EETA Huh. I guess "G" is the Queen's key! Good banjo key! I like G fine. Guitarists hate F, but they can hang in G better then Ab! Sho damn right. EEETA And F# doesn't exist, so forget it. :smile:

No, I don't know how they mic'ed it, probably at least two on piano, and one for vocals.

Seems like the only way to perform the song is just play and sing same time -- picking and a grinning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6HahIoXppE

That Steve Allen Aretha cut -- did anyone else hear the second piano? Never noticed it the first six times I heard it -- yeah, she was getting annoyed by the amplification of the guitar right in her ear, obviously. Huh. Just 2nd keys player, somewhere off camera, I guess.

Oh and FYI, James Brown "Funky Drummer" although he says "G is the devil's key" (which is not,vd. Memphis Slim).

Yeah, that confused me for a sec. F/D-->G.

Change that

Ain't it funky. Ain't it funky.

One two three four.

I think that's Mr. Brown when they land in D playing that (actually pretty good!) Hammond organ.

Lots of percussion on the Hammond, so, obviously one of the B3/C3/A100 models.

ETA I'm 100% sure that's Aretha doing acoustic piano on the original Think (she starts in Bb an then just goes up) -- I can't go find a link, just buy the damned album already.

Rock the LH between the fifth and the tonic. You'll get it. Or else, Just rock octaves in LH -- that could work, too. Not same bassline but, if ur playing it with a crew, the bass player can cover it -- piano == rhythm, groove, texture.

IMHO.

Of course I'm right.

:smilie:

For those interested -- yeah it's rock and roll, so sue me. Here's a cute PDF some gear equipment for Rick Wright.

Somebody reminded me of "Brain Damage/Eclipse" from DSOTM, so I just fool around with the chords. Not going to remember which channel on the mixer I put the Hammond, but nice chords.

Somehow, you can't really jam like make a jazz thing out of it -- it's like a Beatles tune, except it doesn't make you want to puke. Well, I guess you could alter the chords and do whatever over it, but IMHO that would sound gay as hell. At least if I do it. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Maybe I should start playing "Comfortably Numb" -- IIRC that has some meat on it. And, no, by "play" I mean jot down a few chords on a Post-It note, stick on a wall near the keys, and just play around with it. I don't get paid to copy Rick Wright's exact synth sounds or copy his exact notes, so that's what that means.

Here's more proof Aretha's playing at least some of the piano on her own records. I was just listening to her do "Thrill is Gone" -- everyone I ever played with does it like the BB King record, in Bm. Nope. Not Aretha.

Right up in a real key, namely, Cm.

Shape up, son, and do it right!

Yes. That's the key a player would pick in -- nothing wrong with Bm, good stuff in that, all the way back to Bach. Just Eb/Cm is a real key.

Goddamned right. Suck it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLs-Z47oFYw

Hey, here's a new oldie -- I've been playing Mac's arrangement of "Silent Night" off his record for a long time (not the singing, just playing his piano way), but I was reminded of this band arrangement.

My fingers are like stubs, after picking freight for a while, but this is the first time I actually felt like just playing a good old tune for since I started doing warehouse.

Not exactly the right season, but hey, I'm not exactly a model Catholic, and anyway, it's just good music to me that feels good to play, just a nice easy rhythm that you can do whatever you want on.

Meh, take it or leave it, but I was just happy to put my fingers on the keys and do something laid back with a groove that's already in me.

Feels good.

PLUS, doing just American music in G -- I mean, there's just a lot of tunes. The ones I kept flipping back and forth aside from "SN" was "Something You Got" and "I Know" (Barbara George IIRC). So, that made a nice little medley of me just screwing around but still playing the tunes and not just noodling around like a jackass.

Yeah, I don't feel like grabbing a link, and even this is "rock and roll," I was just hearing this again:

you know, Pink Floyd, "Brain Damage."

Every time I hear this again I'm struck by just how powerful Rick Wright's Hammond coming in is on this one.

I always knew him as an EXTREMELY subtle Hammond player, and, obviously, all the Wurlitzer and Rhodes piano work. But I'd forgotten how effective just a good gliss up on one of the Hammond manuals can be -- waterfall keys, so you don't have to worry about cutting your hands like on a piano, just grab with your palms and go. "Palm smear" IIRC is what people usually call it. Hell, I've done it myself often enough on the Hammond -- I just forgot how much a part of this record that was.

The synth work....meh, I just don't know about it, or haven't really put the records under the microscope -- my view is, what you can hear, that's what is the record, for everyone.

And, FTR, that's thanks to Froody Blue Gem, who's been unapproved from posting, who told me about learning this on acoustic guitar that I owe that one. That's truly a...it's a remarkable piece of music.

The harmonies are fun, too. I don't know what I can do with it, but I occasionally just plunk out the chords on piano on my way out the door. Nice, just suspensions, and then back to reality.

ETA Just hearing the chorus again. Yeah, that's definitely Wright taking both hands at the same time, on the same manual, and glissando w/ the palms...OK second chorus, same. Not the "classical" piano style with the fingernail, just grabbing the keys with the palms and sliding up.

Well, I'm sure there's some geek article from some magazine sometime about that, but you don't need to read that, because I just told you how he did that.

It's a great sound -- everyone does it, but here it really fits the song. (first two choruses) EETA That's a nice example of a Leslie moving from up-speed tremolo to getting braked down at the very end. Beautiful.

Actually, first chorus, that's just grabbing a chord on the upper manual and palm smear on the lower (could be the same manual -- I think RW has the same settings on each manual, if at at most maybe a little more drawbar -- the one between 16 and 8 -- on the lower).

I would do it on two separate manuals, but that's just how I would do it -- it could be done either way, but I just like the traditional Hammond organ way.

Grab a chord in Rh, and use Lh to gliss up -- meh, can swap hands, doesn't make a difference.

That's just what I'm hearing.

Oh, on the second chorus, yeah, that's all on one manual/registration. I bet you anything he's doing like I would have, just grabbing some keys and "making his introduction."

I don't have the energy to put in a link, but Jim Alfredson of "Organissimo" is the guy -- monster Hammond player, and Hammond-Suzuki endorsed player. He's about my age, a little older, but he has some amazing kickstarter projects and, like me, he's a big fan of Big John Patton on the Hammond.

No, it's not supposed to be spam, I've just learned a lot about Hammond playing (and, for that matter, Wurlitzer EP home-repair), so just giving a plug.

FWIW he's just some guy in MI who's the younger generation's Joey D on Hammond.

Not spam, truly, just the word in case any of you been dead for twenty years!

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Aretha is the Queen for damn good reason. 20 years ago, VH1 had some sort of battle of the Divas. She blew away all the other women. It wasn't even vaguely a fair fight.

---

I can't imagine who would even DARE face off with the Queen of Soul! What's the girl equivalent of brass balls?

Well whatever it is, that'd take some brass balls to square off against Aretha!

Nothing new to offer, just that the Busoni-Bach "Nun Freut Ich" is one king hell of a tune for solo piano.

No link, but it's just pretty bad as hell too.

SOKOLOV doing the Diabelli Variations -- I got mine from YouTube, but I don't have a link right now.

Something about his theme and the first variation -- I don't like his playing. VERY percussive, he's got concrete hands at the keys. Finally at 2nd var and 3rd var, he changes it up.

I can't criticize, because his technique at the keyboard obviously surpasses mine.

OTOH, that's just not how I would play it -- believe it or not, I do fool around with the Diabelli set occasionally, but for some reason it mildly pings a "error!" code when people aren't going it the way I do/the way I would to.

BUT, I can't criticize Sokolov -- it's a valid reading, and he's done other works I appreciate very much.

ALSO, the Diabellis are just a monster set of music -- certainly the equal of most of later Beethoven keyboard music, in a purely technique sense (although many of the vars aren't that different from exercises Czerny drew straight from, or the later Bagatelles).

I'd like to hear Brendel or (I don't think she did it) Argerich doing it. Even Ashkenazy or Richter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEc_...ature=youtu.be

Heh.

That, that is a pretty odd ragtime piece -- but the time (quantized?) and the melodic contrivances reminds me of some of Bill Bolcolm's ragtime pieces.

Yeah, that is jazz -- well, not exactly modern jazz, and anyway, what is jazz but screwing around with pop music in a funking way?

It got a chuckle out of me.

Here's one everyone knows. Reminded by watching The Color of Money -- I think MS used a brief music cue from this album. Bad motherfucking tune, anyway. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmRkZeGFONg

OH, interesting tidbit, apparently some short cute girls at work seem to enjoy when you sing under your breath the Ramones' Blitzkrieg Bop

No, I didn't know she was anywhere near me, something just reminded me of that.

So that is what a woman is!!!!

Yay!!!! Well, at least I suspect she has good taste in music -- I could perceive her ears perk up when I emerged from my hole.

That could explain her fashion (?) thing, with ... well, I don't know how to describe fashion. Yeah, maybe a bit punk, I guess.

BLITZKRIEG BOP

is the point.

Never too late for little "She Caught The Katy."

Dig the Wurltzer electric piano.

The clip is from one of the opening scenes of The Blues Brothers

DO it in Bb or be damned forever to hell!

Yeah, it's one of those sort-of blues -- not quite 12 bars, but its got that harmonic texture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WZZu3qgVOk

Oh, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_mcvifJ5N0

That's the original tune -- you can hear the acoustic piano way way down in the mix.

Well fuck me in the ass, the one from Blues Brothers was John Belushi singing.

John fucking Belushi. That fat fuck.

Oy Let's Go!

Johnny Ramone giving it to his guitar, power-chord style.

"Somebody Put Something In My Drink"

That's the beauty of the Wurlitzer electric piano -- you can slap a fuzz pedal on it, play it through a tube amp, and all of a sudden you're all set to play rhythm guitar with power chords with Black Flag or the Ramones.

Soften it down, and it's a mellow tremolo piano at home on a Nashville or Memphis recording.

Only thing that fucks it up is, yes, Trojan Lad is right, jazz people didn't even bother to learn NOT to always play fancy subs or extensions.

All hail rock and roll!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBFdvcF7auY

Well, it's about time for the original Frankie Laine version of Rawhide.

Not a day goes back in the warehouse when I don't sing this under my breath, and, to my pleasure, my 65-year old non-caucasian partner in crime often joins in.

Frankie Laine got a round back in the day!

Cut 'em in!

Rawhide!

Whpshaw!

Yeah, you're welcome. George Jones did a lot of fines, but he didn't do any better than this classic.

The King is Gone

James, that asshole compared me to young Elvis last week, I guess cause my hair was all sweaty and I looked like some hick

I said to him "Hell no, I be Chuck Berry or nobody"

Goddamned blacks.

:)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jizzelbin

EETA Oh, and anybody trying to learn American-style piano -- just learn it off Aretha and Ray's records. That's the basics.

---

And goddamned right. I don't think there's jazz any more.

What are we on 52nd St west side?

No. It's American music -- if you claim to be a jazz player and can't play blues/a bit of country, a bit of sacred music you ain't shit.

James Brown, Super Bad

Yeah.

Of COURSE it's in D.

But he puts all his tricks in there.

Funny, I started with ragtime, did legit, then learned all the Ray Charles and Otis Spann stuff, and now, full-circle, I'm back to Aretha and James Brown, where there's little keys, or when there is, it's stuff I already know how (like Spooner Oldham with Aretha et al.)

Yeah, the vocals is the missing piece.

Well, shit, I can't sing for shit, but I can still learn from the backing bands, and, ESPECIALLY, how good they follow the "leader."

Yeah, "Super Bad" is a bad mofo tune.

I haven't played this in at least a few months, but it's a classic.

Dr. John's version is as good as any, off his NOLA tribute album.

Maybe I'm brain-fried, but I only play that in Bb, and I can't sing it. Wouldn't feel right in another key.

Seems like the only way to do it.

I don't know how that tune originated, but, everybody knows that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqfH_1xCSME

I'm not sure which version this is, but over the past few days I've just been annoying my fellow warehouse workers by pounding out a little second-line rhythm to this tune.

AFAIC, there aren't really any words to this, just a rough outline, so I like making some up as a go.

No, I don't subject others to my "singing" unless I'm sure they can escape.

But, I can't resist doing a little parade-style drumming.

No, it has not got me any trim, but it keeps me amused, and that's what this music is all about, IMHO.

Six months. Is a healthy sentence. One year. Ain't no time.

ETA What I mean by "drumming" this tune is hit the main turnaround, and do some stuff for the walkups, but mainly just keep that parade rhythm going. And if you miss nine bars or whatever, just com back in with a Philly Joe Jones style "hit" and don't drop the beat.

As James Brown said, "Don't lose it now, 'cause it's a mutha!"

That should hold you white honkey cracker peckerwoods for a bit.

Uncle Jizz approved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7hEJn-CQEU

Yeah, I'm going to violate all over the thread, rules.

I'm not so much on Rick Wright's synths parts, but "Comfortably Numb" is truly en excellent example of how much to do with so few chords and some nice voice leading between the harmonies and the vocal melodies.

Almost contrapuntal.

I'm enjoying it at this moment as a piano piece -- it's hard to not let it go into lounge lizard territory in that instrument, but it's still a bad tune.

AND, combined with the vocal contrapuntal element, it could be legitimately extended, the harmony, should the soloist (ahem me) feel like doing a jam on it.

Of course, no piano is going to sound like Dave Gilmour. My regular guitar guy could dial in that tone and shred like that, but he's not going to commute over my house just to jam in private -- still, could work as the basis of a jazz tune where, should I find a place that will at least pay enough cash money to cover gasoline and the effort to carry gear, could be a fun little "set piece" (i.e., a tune where you close out the set, like a theme song).

When you see the girl you have a crush on being very friendly with some assnecked nerd:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PzetPqepXA

All right.

THIS is officially the most ridiculous visual performance by a classical musician.

Even though this is the only Chopin Nocturne I ever really "mastered" front to back, so, know every note, I couldn't finish watching the performance.

DESPITE my claims to only be interested in lifting heavy things and thinking about capturing women.

This is way too much.

COMPLETELY SAFE FOR WORK -- IT'S JUST A PROFICIENT PIANIST WEARING A STREETWALKER-TYPE DRESS PLAYING CHOPIN'S F-MIN. NOCTURNE FOR SOME REASON.

All right, you people asked for it.

I think this is pretty well-known, but, James Brown on Letterman doing a couple piano breaks

I always thought he just stuck to the Hammond, but apparently he can do some of the piano too.

Yeah.

Get on up.

Just had Chain Gang pop into my head just now.

Slowly playing more piano -- started just in D, then went up to the "easier" key of Eb.

That's a tough tune to make sound good just solo piano, with no vocals.

But it is a good tune, I think anyone would say.

Oh, my mistake, I was actually thinking of "Working in a Coal Mine" sung by Lee Dorsey (written and produced by Allen Toussaint, RIP, I believe).

I don't have a link, but it's equally as good.

Well, nobody can really be "equal" to Sam Cooke, but it's just as iconic a tune, at least to the music I know.

Oh, FTR "Chain Gang" is in G, and just changes to either an Em or possibly a C triad with the E on bass, depending on what you want.

I have no idea what key Dorsey's tune was in originally -- probably Bb I guess.

Get Out My Life Woman

Hmmm.

A classic from the modern age.

Odd I thought about this tune at the same time I was trying to get a woman in my life.

No, it's none of you, just WareGirl.

I'm unsure of the intent of this tune (I assume Allen Toussaint wrote book and music for it for Lee Dorsey), other than just "feel-good" music.

I'm unsure that Lee Dorsey's famous tunes ever made it beyond regional Louisiana delta hit.

Well, AFAIC, they're all famous tunes -- how the hell else did anyone learn piano, besides legit music? American music.

Yeah, well, slightly more eloquent of begging to get a cold woman to warm up. Sam Cooke, "Cupid..." Of course.

Fuck, I might actually learn to play some shit if I thought it would get this ice woman to defrost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S28tILqie1o

I've since spent more than a few minutes looking at @What Exit?'s great find of a very young Aretha doing her thing.

So, obviously, there's the second piano filling in.

But what I'm more interested in is her use of the vocal microphone -- in the first, say, fifteen or thirty seconds, she uses the vocal mic as a traditional person would.

You know, if she wants to shout, she backs off in distance.

But the more I see this amazing clip, the more I'm unsure of how much the live mixer was riding the faders to compensate for her undoubtedly clipping the levels.

That, combined with the obvious second piano, makes me wonder just how much was "live."

Obviously, I'm not a studio guy, or I'd know.

Maybe I'll try to send a query to Larry Crane, editor of TapeOp magazine, and see what's what.

No, that's not a shill or spam, just he's the guy who would know.

Yeah, I'm getting a bit Rain Man about this clip.

It's an electrifying performance, and yet there are some technical mysteries.

But no shit, Aretha can play and sing like nobody's business.

Aretha doing "Ramblin'" again -- same version vd supr.

Holy shit can that bitch sing. Just like if I trained for ten years I'd never be Sam Cooke.

Right place, right time, I guess.

And propers for the producer giving Fathead Newman two choruses — sounds like him on tenor horn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7yp...ature=youtu.be

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jizzelbin

(i.e., a tune where you close out the set, like a theme song).

---

The Theme.

Of course.

GUITAR people: check out the rhythm guitar at about 17:00-->?

I use the same voicings pretty much on piano, just part of the sound.

But my time on guitar was not spent doing stuff like that. At most, I liked to use the top three strings and comp like Jimmy Raney or Grant Green, but otherwise I preferred to play lead.

What am I missing, in the sound of this guy (I assume)? He's got some good palm muting, and, obviously the notes and the rhythm anybody can hear.

I think, to paraphrase Al Pacino from Heat, "His MO is that he's good! That guy is ready to rock and roll at the drop of a hat."

Yeah, I mean, that's the same notes I do on keys, even down to the same voicing (no, I don't know which instrument came up first with putting, like the thirteenth or the ninth on top — Lloyd Glenn behind BB King did that a lot, but so did lots of people, like T-Bone Walker did that, and whatever), and the rhythm is just...well, it's just a thing.

But I think I'm missing something on how to re-think about the guitar fretboard.

It's gonna take me a while to save up for drop some cash on a new guitar, otherwise I'd be able to answer myself by grabbing the guitar and figuring it out.

Anyway, I think it's pretty neat.

Glenn Miller - In The Mood
The Andrews Sisters - Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy
Artie Shaw : Begin the Beguine
Artie Shaw - Frenesi A little obscure at least after 3 most would know.
Judy Garland - Get Happy

Bach, Toccata in E-minor for keyboard.

I insist on everyone choosing their own favorite performer (my people are András Schiff, Angela Hewitt, Glenn Gould, in descending order for this one) but I've been carrying around a photocopy in my pocket for about a week. I did play through it (barely) months ago, and IIRC there's not one but two very interesting fugues.

It is the most Toccata-like of the Bach stand-alone keyboard (non-organ) toccatas, though. Extremely inventive, and just a lot of fun. Most of it is just screwing around in E-minor.

The kind of thing when you're sitting around the campfire with your piano in your knapsack and someone says "Hey, about playing us a little tune on that old piyaner, Jack?"

Just my luck. Somebody had a good "channel" on their "phone" "bullshit" "crap," at this shitty "bar and grill," filled with 1970s Zep and all kinds of good shit.

The Floyd tune "Breathe" came on, and just into the third chorus (?) when Rick Wright was getting into the Hammond (let's not speak of the synthesizer parts) some turd swapped it for some angry early 1980s punk.

Normally, I like both, but I was really enjoying hearing how RW used the Hammond.

Fucking bastards.

I shall never leave the house again.

//////////////

ETA Oh, today I mistook the E-minor toccata for the G-major one, so that's what ended up in my pocket. You know, same key signature, and whatever. And had a chance to read a three or four pages while drinking coffee before work at a table.

THAT.

The G-major, that's an object-lesson in how to subdivide. A lot of similarity to the G-maj Partita (the beginning movement of the Partita), but something about the descending chord pattern in eighth-notes made me think of Billy Preston, "Will It Go Round In Circles."

I wouldn't be surprised if Preston copped that idea from the Bach toccata.

I was only "playing" from reading the score at a table with cigarette and coffee (which I'm not very good at, sight-singing/hearing), but I think I got the idea of it.

Preston.

What a hack.

I'm not sure if it's "politically correct" to play the tune "Big Chief" anymore.

But, still, even though I can't do the whistling part like 'Fess did, I'm not going to stop playing it on occasion, just because it's such a bad-ass piano part.

Hell, I've been playing it since I learned it off the record at age...fifteen or sixteen, I guess...so can't stop now.

At the minimum I can start doing it in Db or even Bmaj, just because, why not.

ETA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhYyFnFPhBg

Professor Longhair was really good. This is probably his most famous:

Well, I'm no expert, but I think if when you go to Mardi Gras, somebody will tell you what's Carnival for.

I'm also pretty sure if you stay right there somebody will show you the Zulu Queen.

Also good for St. John the conqueror root, and get a mojo hand.

That's just what they tell me.

I just heard the funniest "question" and "response" from some 4chan-type place for children.

Q: "How good is a today music player compared to Mozart?"

A: None, just some children blabbering.

The real answer is that a classical musician today who cannot improvise fluently in multiple styles or at least create pastiches of various composers is a piece of shit who just plain can't play.

Sort of like a child with some rote technique: not an actual musician.

There are various places to put the blame for poor musicianship, but that's a fact that every single good pianist and composer is able to improvise idiomatically and effortlessly in multiple styles.

I don't know where people come from where they don't know this.

Just kids, I guess, who don't know any better, because they're idiots or have poor understanding in general.

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Glenn Miller - In The Mood
The Andrews Sisters - Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy
Artie Shaw : Begin the Beguine
Artie Shaw - Frenesi A little obscure at least after 3 most would know.
Judy Garland - Get Happy

---

"Frenesi" IME everyone knows from the Ray Charles band (the album, just *Ray Charles Live*). EETA, no, I've never heard any other version, so thanks for that.

"Get Happy," I'd never heard a real singer play it, just the Bud Powell (bebop piano) version and some other instrumental players. I don't know the words. "come on now just get happy: we're waiting for the judgment day!" And then there's more words.

Odd about "Begin the Beguine" — a long time ago a band-mate and friend was telling me about how it's such a long-form tune, breaking (?) with the 32-bar AABA structure, but I never felt like remembering the whole thing. Cole Porter? Possibly Gershwin. (ETA No, Cole Porter nor Gershwin were the friend I was talking about, just what IRL somebody was telling me.)

All I know about that one is it's pretty complicated, in terms of structure.

Speaking of the Professor, "Hey Little Girl" is about the one I'm after.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbA3LV1bFcI

There is, to my ears, pretty much nothing Dr. John plays on piano that isn't straight of Fess's bag of tricks.

Fortunately it's a big bag, with a lot of little stuff going on.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

Speaking of the Professor, "Hey Little Girl" is about the one I'm after.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbA3LV1bFcI

There is, to my ears, pretty much nothing Dr. John plays on piano that isn't straight of Fess's bag of tricks.

Fortunately it's a big bag, with a lot of little stuff going on.

---

Man that was good.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Man that was good.

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I'm glad you appreciated it.

There is some weird stuff going on with NOLA R&B from back in the day. Maybe it's the key of G (e.g., "Hey Little Girl"), or maybe Fess and Dr. John were just double-jointed in the RH, or just some tricks. I can fake it pretty good, but some of those boys down south can really pour it on.

Here's a little lagniappe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THK5FVuptp0

ETA That's the equally great Hank Crawford and Jimmy McGriff (doing piano[!?]). Can't ever miss Hank playing his horn. And IMHO McGriff is one of the all-time greats on Hammond organ — I didn't even know he could play piano, but he's surprisingly good as a piano player.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLs-Z47oFYw

---

I just thought I'd bump this link to Patricia Petitbon doing the vengeance aria from The Magic Flute.

At times I try to sing this sotto voce at work, but (i) I can't remember all the words and while a FB and RL friend called Petitbon &cie's performance "precise and passionate" (or something like that), he reminded me that singing a soprano (!) part is probably not reflect well on my masculinity among the contract drivers.


I don't care about that — it's still badass music.


Many have tried, but to my ear, it still can't be done on solo piano. Yeah, you can play the notes and everything the orchestra is doing, and try to put feeling into the soprano (lead) partt, but it basically just sucks without vox.

Well, it's official.

The Queen of Soul, as you know, gone away.

Not to take away from the others from the past few years who went fishing.

But the Queen was sui generis. Once in a century singer, and one of the singers who was not just an exceptional performer on her main instrument, viz. her voice, but an actual musician who probably knew what she wanted musically and how to execute her performance.

I can't choose one song, so to be crass I'll just mention Steely Dan's "Hey Nineteen."

Lyrics have to be updated, and bodies have to be planted.

Aretha, she was awesome. She was the best.

Yeah, well. She did it all. Unfortunately the radio people have been dumbasses about not playing her best stuff. Kind of a disservice to the many, many epic sides she made, with the help of the full studio armies, and sometimes just her and a piano.

I've been exploring the G-min keyboard toccata of Bach.

I don't know if this is the best video or performance, but I just grabbed a photocopy of it sometime last week out the door to stuff in my pocket thinking: "Hey, that opening triplet thing would probably sound badass."

Starting to think Bach's keyboard toccatas are some of the most fun and rewarding of his pieces, at least to semi-play or at least read through or listen to.

ETA Oh, wow, she's not bad. Musically, I find the performance joyful and light. Her hairstyle is kind of what WareGirl does on the job. I don't know what that's called.

But look at the tension in her back at the first "spritely" portion of the piece. Well, it looks painful to me, but then again I'm no stranger to pain in the back.

Bah, she's young. She'll live.

OTOH, I'm not sure if her posture and histrionics aren't some kind of affectation. Clearly she's heavily influenced by Gould — not just in the clarity of her trills (LH and RH), but in a sort of Renaissance flavor to the way she does the "French overture"-type parts of the toccata.

However, while I think anyone would say it's a good achievement to master a somewhat-lengthy piece of Bach, she certainly deserves some attention as an artist, beyond the mere technical and intellectual accomplishment.

All right, we used to play this one seven days a week and twice on Thursday.

What was the Aretha tune with the raised-nine chords that went, from, for example, like Eb7#9-->Db7-->Bb7

I'll be shitting myself if I can't remember it, and it's not in my records/CDs.

That was pretty much the whole tune. Wurlitzer Electric Piano. Late 1960s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-T8E4YbS2E

Proof that not every cracker from Florida (Duane Allman) wasn't above hanging with the Queen.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

All right, we used to play this one seven days a week and twice on Thursday.

What was the Aretha tune with the raised-nine chords that went, from, for example, like Eb7#9-->Db7-->Bb7

I'll be shitting myself if I can't remember it, and it's not in my records/CDs.

That was pretty much the whole tune. Wurlitzer Electric Piano. Late 1960s.

---

Well I'll be a son of a bitch, I managed to find my copy of "Soul '69," but it isn't on that either.

And if any of you bastards tell Morgan that my records and CDs aren't organized, I'll cut your nuts off and make you eat them.

Still, it's a great record.

ETA, Oh yeah, I never knew that was Junior Mance on piano for quite a few tracks.

One of my early favorites. A great, great piano player.

Jazz, but didn't forget how to handle blues and soul (vd. the album Buddy and the Juniors).

No shit, looking at the album from Aretha's "Soul '69" that was indeed Junior Mance playing on the eight-bar "Ramblin'" linked to above.

I think it was in a liner notes or something from one of his albums or one he contributed to where it was mentioned his first big tour was a job with Dinah Washington. IIRC somebody told him, like "man, you come back off that tour and you're going to know blues back and forth."

As a point of non-interest, I think my second roommate in college remarked in an approving fashion that I had the tape cued up for my alarm clock from one of Aretha's Columbia records singing "Skylark."

ETAWasn't on purpose, just what I had duped from vinyl onto cassette to have something in there. I'm not much of a packrat, but I'm sure the double album of Aretha on Columbia is still on my shelf. Those get kept alphabetized because I don't bother playing vinyl much now. Especially since my asshole uncle cracked the dustcover on my Pioneer PL-10 with his head. Fucking dick. At least it wasn't the headshell. Shit, I should get a new cartridge+stylus one of these days.

Just killing time while washing dishes and so forth, watching a few minutes here and there of The Sting (movie).

I still play a lot of Joplin, when I feel like it, although I still struggle sometimes to remember without cheating and looking at the score.

That does remind me of what a great contribution "classical" ragtime was to American music.

ETA as above, what I'm calling the "French Overture" style is using the dotted rhythm, or maybe double-dotted rhythm. The Bach B-min French Overture is the best example, but JSB uses it all over the WTC and elsewhere.

So, see András Schiff playing the B-min French Overture on youtube. That's what the rhythm is.

EETA Here is Schiff playing in concert the B-min of Bach. See what I mean? Keyboard technique is not have to be so great. However, taste, style, and perfection in execution is required.

All right.

So Billy Preston played a number ot tunes backing Queen of Soul.

So https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjV0w35_BmY here's a way to distinguish what BP is doing on Hammond vs. what Rick Wright is doing on DSOTM and Animals.

Yeah, so, hear it?

RW was an amazing Hammond player. but the difference is in using different registrations for the two manuals. RW "got" in spades using the Leslie speaker, like you're supposed to.

But BP really used *all* the organ.

IMHO.

And yes, he played on a number of Aretha's sides.

Oh, watching again the Bill Evans before a weeks before he died, I never noticed Marc Johnson on upright bass is playing an orchestra-style double bass, not the 3/4 size everyone else does in jazz.

Could be the camera or lens.

Yeah, the link's up there somewhere.

Just Bill doing his great tune "Nardis" and going nuts solo before the band comes in.

Hard to believe he was probably about fifty when that was shot.

Apparently heroin's a hell of a drug.

I snorted some dimes, but I'm glad I never got into it. Even alcohol, I'm glad I came out of that. Put the zap on your brain.

ETA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF4dI9LvLDY

Red Garland, former boxer turned queer for piano September in the Rain.

First album I listened to after my first time tripping on acid "solo" (i.e., just on my own, without any company except myself) when I got back to my pad.

Not bad.

This violates my own rule for "rock and roll," but I've been a coworker with this woman named "Angie" (well, Angela, really, but she just goes by Angie).

Very fun woman, maybe a little older than me — definitely not a romantic thing, just someone you smile at and trade a joke or two with.

So I finally asked her if she ever gets a lot of tired of being compared to the Stones' tune, "Angie."

I wasn't sure what answer I'd get — it was a stupid, obvious question, but we were just sitting there being held up by the contractor delinquents.

Yes, that was the answer.

She took it in OK stride, probably about as well as I do when people ask me if I been told I look like Nic Cage.

BUT I just now heard the tune again.

That is a motherfucker of a tune. I'm guessing that's Nick Hopkins on piano — it's a king-hell piano part that Stu could have played in his sleep, but it's not his bag — and also, the chords.

Granted, this is just me taking my freshly-washed clothes off my audio mixer, powering it up, and playing along on piano just now.

Just very refreshing.

Sort of a three-chord song with some colors added to it.

I don't remember, but I think it's off Goat's Head Soup — one of those in my LP bookshelf I (obviously) haven't pulled out in a while.

Anyway, just remarkable songwriting and piano contribution.

I still haven't listened to the lyrics — to me I just hear "blah blah Angie something something" and wait for Nick to do a nice subtle move on piano, or something from acoustic guitar.

Eh. Err. Ergh.

Something reminded me of what "shit music" is just now — if I can't tell what instruments are being played, by whom, and how it was recorded and mixed, in a very loose sense, I'm not interested.

I don't care about the vocals -- those have always been processed since the beginning of ever.

I want to hear separation of each track, even if it's a million tracks. None of this submix to a stem and mash-together crap.

It may be hard to hear, but in the densest period of 1970s dance music, you can still what's what.

And, yes, I'm sure you're all very interested, but like anybody else who likes music, the compression is a major problem. But it's been like that since the early 1980s (although compression is not a new thing at all). I still couldn't listen to alternateen "rock" like Nirvana or whatever from the early 1990s even today precisely because of that.

Even dense instrumental funk music, using synths, electro-mechanical keyboards, processed guitars, and all that, at least you can tell what instruments are being played.

Even Led Zeppelin in their later years, after beginning as a band of many studio experts, you can still listen to it.

Present-day "country" music is the only thing going on, musically — I fucking hate most of it, but at least there are actual people playing in the studio and some efforts to mix the tracks competently.

There is still some folk and blue grass out there, no one is buying it, but it is still out there. But some would consider those close to country anyway. There is still also some Blues out there, though rarely a new song, usually just another cover of an old cover or variation.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

There is still some folk and blue grass out there, no one is buying it, but it is still out there. But some would consider those close to country anyway. There is still also some Blues out there, though rarely a new song, usually just another cover of an old cover or variation.

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Very true. I would even say there's plenty of rock music engineered very carefully, and performed by younger musicians of extremely high ability. And, yes, you can tell that people are actually performing the music.

I suppose my little rant was just the usual anti "Top 40" thing — not very original of me. More accurate is that I read the interviews regularly from publications like TapeOp, and rarely bother to follow up with buying or streaming the music (but when I do, it's often interesting in at least a few aspects).

In other words, I'm just lazy.

Although, this bartender literally did not believe me that the version of "She Caught The Katy" (a Taj Mahal blues-based staple) that came off her phone was the Blues Brothers version, not the original Taj Mahal version. Her phone just said "Taj Mahal." I think she might have been drunk or something, though.

I don't know if more blues or instrumental jazz original compositions is all that important to me, just so long as they do it right. AFAIC there's still a lot of room to create something on, like a Wayne Shorter or Herbie composition, just like an 8- or 12- or 16-bar blues isn't going anywhere so long as people can figure out how.

I tuned out of top 40 and pop 100 stations decades ago at this point, so my new music is from word of mouth, festivals, the very rare new thing played on classic rock station or the one college station I listen too. I know what you're talking about with everything being over-engineered since lets say MTV started. One of the brilliant exceptions to this was Tracy Chapman, but she was very folk/blues anyway and now a long time ago for her success.

My groups are now ancient, those that survived the 60s and 70s and now all in their 60s and 70s. Blues musician are almost by definition older yet it seems like. Of the folk musicians that ever had any mainstream success maybe only Arlo is left? I believe Joan Baez is done performing now after some severe health issues and she is 77. duh, Bob Dylan is still playing.

Meanwhile, I was at a small fest this year and the groups were all 16-24 year olds and half their music was classic rock played as raw as raw could be and the few original pieces I heard were basically blues-rock and not current pop sounding. The Festival was put on by a group of 17-22 year olds.

Anyway, I agree w/ ^.

Anyway, so anyway, I have the day off so into hour four of day off, I put on the Chick Corea/Return to Forever album, Light as a Feather:

Holy fucking shit.

The first track, "You're My Everything."

That just about made my head explode. Yeah, obviously I tried playing along -- the difference between fluidity/fluency from a Chick Corea and some regular person like me is astounding.

Even when it's hard to play a "wrong" note.

Yeah, see?

That's why I'm on this trip of more technical ability (scales in thirds and sixths at the keyboard).

That's a motherfucker.

ETA yes, I replayed the track, and am listening to it now. That is indeed a mofo of a side, and, yes, Chick can play. I'm just going to play the album until the last track, the blues "Matrix," and force myself to not try to play along.

Why do people like music with vocals? I never understand.

Well, here's some penance.

That's Roger Williams playing "Autumn Leaves."

Yes, that Roger Williams.

And let that be a lesson to all of you! No need for shenanigans! Just don't do it like that, please.

Oh.

In case anyone needed reminding, the first piece of Debussy's "Children's Corner" suite is much more difficult than I remembered.

It's not impossible to play, by any means, but it IMHO should be played in such a way that there is no time to figure out fingerings ad hoc. In other words, it requires some practice.

No link. Angela Hewitt is good for Debussy, among recent pianists, but there are plenty of good Debussy interpreters on record. Michelangeli, I guess, is the main one, but I don't recall his tempo on this.

Here's an interesting example of pianist Barry Smith using his (supposed) theory of diminished chords to reharmonize (slightly) the old standard "All The Things You Are."

For once he's not harping on his so-called "diminished sixth" scale pet project, but actually puts it to use on a real tune.

Me, I've been convinced of learning the octotonic scales all ways from Sunday for quite some time, and been affirmed by how often the "diminished" scale happens in Mozart, as well as using diminished seventh chords more liberally, even just as passing chords. ETA for music people, it's just a symmetric eight-note scale that goes from root-->whole step and continues approaching each note of the diminished seventh chord by a half step. For some reason legit music people just call it an octotonic scale, but everybody else calls it the diminished scale.

But this is a nice little demonstration — maybe a little pedantic, but it is a video of one of his "master classes," so it's still nice to hear.

For those who don't know, Barry Harris was part of the "next generation" of bebop jazz pianists who came up in the 1950s, and has quite a number of interesting records under his own name. Very old-school bebop piano.

Speaking about the Chick Corea and Bill Evans technique.

Yeah, I think working beyond the advanced Czerny books, it's better for me to (i) think up an improvised line over whatever chords (say, "All The Things You Are," or whatever, just some tune) (ii) instead of just playing the improvised melody in RH, use both hands in thirds apart.

It's not the "bebop way," where the LH outlines the harmony, but I think it sounds good.

And, if one isn't with a bass player, you can always switch back

So, that's how I do from now on.

No, I do not change my mind. I rather reaffirm that Debussy's *Children's Corner* is a coherent suite for piano that takes the advantage of the modern piano, and it is a masterpiece that requires not only considerable keyboard technique but also musical maturity qua interpretation.

I am astounded by how many resources it takes to perform this as a suite.

Furthermore, I do not think it is reasonable to perform this suite from memory.

Therefore, I'm glad I bought the G. Henle, after having used photocopies for a very long time — it is very good music and one should at least have a score from which to read, after having studied and learned the movements each.

I feel the same way about the first book of Debussy's Préludes — well, the same in that I'm glad I bought the G. Henle as a "reading" score.

Very few of the individual préludes from the first book have spoken to me personally, but I'd much rather treat them as a set: even though that is against the composer's wishes, perhaps, and similar to Chopin, to have them performed in any kind of order.

I do have a fantasy that, when I've done the few little (well, for me, they are grand) Beethoven piano sonatas (Op. 26, Op. 27 no. 1) and finally memorize the Op. 126 of Beethoven (yes, I've been playing it for more than twenty years, I just can't remember it all from front to back), I just skip Chopin études (although there are some I like), and only do a few of the Chopin Op. 28 Préludes that I like.

For me, it's only

BACH --> [mozart-haydn-beethoven] --> DEBUSSY.

Everything else is a divertimento.

Oh, about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCsw...ture=youtu.be: For a long time I try to make a piano work for the Mozart operas work.

BUT I was gratified to hear after the millionth time hearing Petitbon's studio performance of the second "Queen's" aria, I think I can hear about four places where, if I were a studio engineer, I'd break out the cellophane tape and plug in a few clams.

Still one of my favorite opera clips, and, of course, one of the great showpieces of all time. I like this not just because of Petitbon's impeccable technique, but also because of the video reminding us, and, I hope, many others with whom I've shared the clip, that classical/legit musicians don't only wear evening dress...they just play, just like the rest of us regular people.

I think the best musical idea I've had in a while is swapping out ..... I can't remember what I put out of this stupid disc changer in the car ... well, whatever it was, that old favorite Grant Green's album/CD Feelin' The Spirit.

It's the same physical CD I've had since I was 18 or 19. Back then I and my guitar friend were listening to the groove between Herbie (on acoustic piano) and Grant Green.

Now, I just keep the album on the disc-changer in the car during commute and I have more appreciation for how much melody Grant Green gets out of (what sounds to me like) the diminished scale. (All right, music nerds, the regular W-H dim scale).

Obviously, I have on my shelf everything Green recorded, but, for my money, he never had a better tone nor better lines than on this old album of corny old tunes.

I'm about to swap a Cannonball album for Green's Grantstand in the car.

Yeah.

Instead of Idle Moments, which I've heard so many times it's pathological, I want to hear more good diminished scale lines from Grant, and save up for a nice Epiphone to give my fingers a rest from the keys.

ETA But I'm still keeping one volume on CD of Lee Dorsey in the changer! Sometimes just got to let it all hang out!

Another week begins.

I've got to swap out Herbie's first Headhunters album for his (and his headhunters) album Thrust.

I really don't like CD changers, but that's what's built in the car and I'm certainly not going to grab a soldering pencil and screwdriver and change it out.

From memory, what do I have in there, anyway? Bill's Conversations with Myself, the first disc of Lee Dorsey from a compilation, Green's Feelin the Spirit, used to be Cannonball's Portrait of Cannonball, erm...I can't remember.

Hmmm. The choice is between Herbie's Thrust and the live album/CD from Japan called Flood.....erm.

I guess I could put in Herbie's Man-Child as well — not that great an album (it subs guitar for the guitar-esque Clavinet parts Herbie did on the first few).....

I'd do some good old Jelly Roll or some of Junior Mance's albums, but the tone of the piano doesn't come through on car speakers.

I got it!!! one of Miles's albums with Herbie and Tony Williams.

That, plus Grant Stand should round out the mix.

I hate CD changers: when I want to listen to an album, I don't want to be confused by what disc is in which slot.

so, swap some, and if I have time, it should be:

(i) Lee Dorsey
(ii) Bill+Jim Hall, Intermodulation
(iii) Miles, Four and More
(iv) Herbie, Thrust
(v) Joe Henderson, Tetragon
(vi) Grant Green, Grant Stand

ZOMFG.

What dipshit put this crap on the playlist at the bar?

Right now it's some goddamned idiot playing single-note lines on an acoustic guitar. Probably Jerry or one of one of Jerry's "kids." When I first walked in it was some GDead tune.

This is the kind of music that makes you want to seal yourself in a pine box, pour gasoline on yourself, and set yourself on fire.

Trust me, I've heard it all before.

It makes me want to fucking puke.

And me without my earplugs.

Fucking shithead assmunching demented witless assholes.

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Oh man, have you ever heard them live? They like so great man.

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Bullshit. At the Garden, about 30 minutes into the concert and they go into a freeform 20 something minute jazz thing. I guess it was some odd version of Space but what it was, was crap. The only concert I ever walked out of.

Though in the Dead's defense, part of the problem was the awful acoustics at Madison Square Garden when you're up in the rafters.

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Quote:

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Oh man, have you ever heard them live? They like so great man.

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Bullshit. At the Garden, about 30 minutes into the concert and they go into a freeform 20 something minute jazz thing. I guess it was some odd version of Space but what it was, was crap. The only concert I ever walked out of.

Though in the Dead's defense, part of the problem was the awful acoustics at Madison Square Garden when you're up in the rafters.

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Funny.

Yeah, I've seen them live I think twice — three times actually (? that's like trying to remember every little girlfriend or something — not much fun counting them up) — but I was too high on, you know, the usuals to consider walking out.

The sound was terrible, though — both outdoor events — although they certainly put a new spin on the term "wall of sound."

It's not just the reminder of spending time (voluntarily!) with people who had hundreds of cassettes of live shows, but mainly that noodly guitar.

Makes me want to start chopping off fingers and burning them.

Anyway, that was a funny comment, so thanks WE?.

ETA Although, in defense of the GD, I've learned a few things from some of their organ/piano players.

But that guitar noodling.

It just cannot be. It cannot ever be listened to.

Ever.

Phish >> GD.

I saw Phish live when they were still on the rock bar circuit. I liked them but though Solar Circus (sp?) was better.

Speaking of which, years after the Dead concert, I saw Rat Dog live, opening for the Allmans. Rat Dog had Bob Weir and played mostly dead music but sounded better to me.

Oddly enough, the closest I came to a Phish concert was when they were playing Madison Square Garden. A few friends were visiting but we didn't have tickets, so we just hung out in the parking garage and did whippets out of balloons and tried to score some weed from the massive tons of neo-hippies who were infesting the garage.

But Trey, on guitar, at least had some sense of how to restrain that faux-fingerstyle guitar-noodling, and Page (sp?) is a very good rock piano player. Plus, their commitment to keeping some of the cover-band tradition alive, as well as being able to cover some older jazz tunes, is appreciated by me.

Not that I listen to them, and I think a lot of their shtik and original tunes were pretty silly, but at least I can understand the musicianship.

I remember Rat Dog, but I can't pull up a mental image of their music in my head. A lot of people liked them, though. Supposedly Bob Weir was a good bassist, but I couldn't really comment.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

too high on, you know, the usuals to consider walking out.

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Is it actually possible to walk out on a GD concert?

Well, clearly, one person here has done it, and I walked out of the bar mentioned above leaving 3/4 of a pint of beer untouched, after the facial tics started getting irritating.

But, really....in all cases, I was with some people, BUT more importantly, if you leave, you're still going to be in the dank heart of hippiedom.

Even the MSG parking garage was a madhouse for the short time I was "entertaining" some friends for a Phish concert.

Damned it, now I've got an earworm of that tune....was it Robt Hunter who wrote a lot of the lyrics for those old tunes? Well, whoever it was, "friend of the devil is blah blah friend of mine."

Shit.

It's getting to be my bedtime, but I think the only anecdote is some Allman Bros. Band.

No, that's too exciting.

OK. Idle Moments it is. Yeah, that's about as much stimulation and counteraction to the earworm.

Oh, BTW, it's from Feelin' The Spirit, "Nobody Knows The Trouble I've Seen," where particularly Green and Herbie do a nice CONCISE version of trading some lines.

Geez.

If you want to take a bunch of acid and listen to a jam, do something like that.

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

I just skip Chopin études (although there are some I like), and only do a few of the Chopin Op. 28 Préludes that I like.

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I should have amplified that I think Moszkowski's Études (Op 72, I believe), are better than the Chopin études (either set), and that Debussy's études are equally interesting.

The thing is that any single one of those takes a long time to learn, at least for me.

And the frustrating thing about the Chopin Préludes is that, again, for me, even the first one in C (from Op. 28), even though it is brief and not too demanding, can't be played while reading the score at the speed that I like. I'm still dithering about the Op. 28/3 (G major) and going back and forth on how to execute some of the LH in a relaxed manner.

And some of that latter set is just plain technically beastly, and well beyond my ability. Indeed, some of the Chopin préludes are, I would say, beyond the technique of anyone except a bona fide concert pianist at the top of his or her game.

So, that's how I divide the labor of what "chestnuts" to work at.

As for Czerny, I try to abstract away from what he abstracted away from Beethoven passage-work, and just work on smooth, fluid scalar work in thirds or sixths.

The arpeggiated figures, for me, are not useful in improvisation, and so I ignore all that.

ETA Here's Moszkowski's G-min étude from Op. 72 — for me, there is no question it is a better piece of music than it's counterpart in Chopin's Op. 10 (the hackneyed 'revolutionary' étude), as well as equally demanding technically.

The opening-credits theme for the BBC miniseries SS-GB is beautifully haunting - I keep listening to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEm4jCt2Efc

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Originally posted by Elendil's Heir

The opening-credits theme for the BBC miniseries SS-GB is beautifully haunting - I keep listening to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEm4jCt2Efc

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Kind of reminds me of the TV series Westworld — I still suspect that if one made a poll of contemporary film composers, especially those which use piano as a leading melodic voice, Debussy's influence would probably be the strongest.

Even if the composers wouldn't admit it.

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Oh, apparently I was confused about Bob Weir — AFAICT, he never touched a bass guitar in his life. Don't know what I can say other than: hey kids, don't do drugs, and stay off the GD.

Musically, Bob Weir was nothing special, but a solid rhythm guitar mostly. Jerry was the much better guitar player.

Just found out not too long ago (sometime last week?) that Nancy Wilson died.

I had no idea she was still alive, but she was probably my favorite of the great jazz vocalists — I really know her mainly from her sides with Cannonball (Adderly), as well as one of those Verve "best of" CDs.

But, she was about one of the handful of favorites among jazz singers who seemed to have total command of her instrument. Not sure how much influence the producers or her sidemen had on her performances, but probably no more than many other "name players."

Speaking of old people, I've been like a mental patient for Bill's take on "Blue Monk" (it's just a blues in Bb written by Monk!). Just hitting "repeat" in the car and such.

I've been struggling for years to get that thing that Billy Taylor did on "I Wish I Knew What it Was To Be Free," but Bill really captures that rhythmic feel for his improvised lines. I think his main statement in that style starts at about three minutes and three seconds in.

Nobody else I've heard really used that rhythmic pattern, except maybe Les McCann. It's not a "pattern," it's just more a style of organizing the lines, like a kind of voice that is so unique nobody else, I guess, felt like copying it, for fear of sounding too much like someone else.

Yeah, of course, that doesn't apply to everybody who used Bird and Bud's lines, but this is a really particular rhythmic sound.

I think I'm going to spend about a week copying Bill's take on this style, just so I can put it in my bag and use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKG2LzoQmKc

Oh, for completeness, Bill does "Blue Monk" in F. IIRC every recording I've heard of Monk doing it is in Bb.

It's basically the same key, at least for blues, if you look at it kind of sideways.

And the "trick" is to start the attack (truly, the term can be applied in a few different ways) on the very first note of each improvised line.

The content of each line is really just .... I think some people call it .... I can't remember, but just using chromatic approach notes from below and above whatever the "target" note is.

So, that's stuff I already knew, but it's just a case of practicing that very particular style.

A lot of John Lewis influence I hear in Bill's performance as well.

And Bill has some neat little flourishes.

I think I might actually grab a pencil and some staff paper and write it out (probably not all three voices — the walking bass (and the spots where he does a pseudo-stride LH bass) doesn't need writing down, but the introductory material at the beginning has some nice advanced voicings), and I'll probably post it here as a jpeg link.

And, no, transcriptions of solos are in a very grey area of copyright law — to my understanding, it's really the melody of a tune that is copyrighted. Not the chords, certainly.

Anyway, I haven't broken out the staff paper yet, so that's not a concern.

EETA, no I remember trying to write it all out about ten years, but I'm going to do my refined/lazy technique of transcribing and divide each line played into numbered segments.

After all, I'm not going to play it note-for-note, and I've learned from memorizing Bach that it can sometimes be a bit more manageable and make more sense to write each phrase out.

If needed for some reason, you can always just "stitch" the lines together and make a nice, neat copy.

Just my method now.

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ETA Oh, and in case anyone needs a quick intro to Nancy Wilson, "her" tune "Never Will I Marry" is a stone classic. I just know it from Cannonball (I think he did it in Ab): kind of a tricky tune for a tin-pan-alley standard, and I can't remember all of it, but it's just a classic.

So....Nancy Wilson, Anita O'Day, Annie Ross, Sarah Vaughan. I think those are "my" chick singers who went nationwide and changed music history. Of course there are many more, but those are my girls.

OH, I did spin in the car this morning and afternoon, the album by Grant Green called IIRC "Grant's First Stand*.

It's in organ trio, with Baby Face Wilette on Hammond organ and Ben Dixon (who else!) on drums.

I haven't heard that in years, but Baby Face's odd use of the "vibrato" setting on the Hammond didn't irritate me that much.

FYI. the traditional is to use the "chorus" effect on the Hammond, as Jimmy Smith and everybody else did, so it sounds a little odd, but BFW did have some tasty lines and his LH bass+pedals was especially noteworthy.

Ben Dixon held the groove.

But my surprise was that Green was pretty much fully-formed at...I guess he was about thirty when this, his first album, was recorded.

Just a great ability to create lines that could almost be compositions in themselves.

Extremely tuneful, and the tone of his guitar and its recording never sounded better. As good, but never better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxh9XIiVUAE

Well, that sort of officially violates "No Rock and Rollers Allowed," but I'm astounded at The Killer's balls-out bravado as late as 1964 at "The Star Club."

I've known all the Sun Records releases since forever, but this is the one that says to me, "Hey! Fuck you! I'm going to play some fucking piano and then eat your wife's pussy, and then play some more! Next time bring your sister-wife!"

Jerry Lee Lewis was a crude, crude man, but he could play, sing, and more important, he could perform.

He was the white James Brown.

ETA Still is.

Eh.

I was told by phone last week that my middle nephew watched some of the televised Van Cliburn piano competition with his grandmother (i.e., my mom).

AND that this nephew was astounded by the feats.

So, I guess the next time I see them I'm supposed to do something really "amazing" on piano.

I was more working on musical stuff like fugues, but I can still remember most of [url=http://ww

Oh. That was supposed to be link to the old CPE Bach Solfeggietto.

And then I think I said something about the (easy) E minor fugue from the WTCI.

And then a bunch of other stuff.

I still stand by my statement that the presto agitato from Beethoven's Op. 27 no. 2 ("Moonlight") is easier than the Op. 27 no. 1, but that's probably just because of way old muscle memory.

And then I said some other stuff. I remember, but I refuse to retype.

Anyway, the point was that little kids of about the age of seven or so can be easily impressed by some flashy piano playing, even if it's not too difficult in the context of the whole repertoire, and that seems to be the role I am meant to "play," for now, so at least I can keep a post-it note with the chord changes to some of these tunes in my pocket if needed and do that.

IF it were me, I'd just do a very quick performance of the three-part invention in C, then note how it's all scales, then start introducing the two-part invention in C as an ear-training exercise.

But, I don't think the kids are too impressed by Bach, even though I find his music very demanding on all levels.

Oh, and really the only reason I ever learned the little CPE Bach thing was Bud's "Bud on Bach" tune. Yeah, his improvisation isn't exactly on his best on this one, but I like the mix-and-match.

Do the stupid CPE Bach thing, then just play for a bit.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

I've been struggling for years to get that thing that Billy Taylor did on "I Wish I Knew What it Was To Be Free," but Bill really captures that rhythmic feel for his improvised lines. I think his main statement in that style starts at about three minutes and three seconds in.

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You know, I "discovered" today that this particular style of phrasing seems to have been a favorite of Cannonball. I noticed it today while listening to the fake-"Freddie Freeloader"-style blues off...I think the album/CD is A Portrait of Cannonball.

That wouldn't surprise me a bit if Bill didn't absorb the phrasing style (namely, it's a "front-loaded" improvised line, IOW, attack hard on the first note, no matter where the line begins in the bar, and use heavy chromatic "encircling" around the chord/melody tones). They two certainly played together enough.

So, that was an interesting observation I found today — I'm still not very good at copying that phrasing for my own lines, but it's still nice to observe.

Alas, I don't think I'm ever going to remember all the separate parts to "Waltz for Debby," speaking of Bill+Cannonball. (Bill wrote the tune, but Cannonball also recorded it). It's not that it's hard changes, just there are some subtle variations in each of the "A" sections.

I guess I should be grateful enough that I can condense pretty much any legit/classical or jazz tune or whatever onto a single Post-It Note to help me remember.

It's not as bad a crutch as needing to see a leadsheet or actual score, but it's still a crutch.

Like, uh, that dialogue from Plato, something like "all writing is writing in water." (Natch, Socrates said it, IIRC, what with Plato being the scribe and all).

Just when I thought about a six-month hiatus from piano (no, I haven't played the organ in a while, and that's not a joke) surprised me by how quickly memory comes back when enforced by some haptic feedback and just some active work on refreshing the habit with some legit music. Legit means, like, Bach and stuff.

I think today was one of the few (six, seven?) times in about a year I just did some good old boogie, blues, NOLA stuff. I think it all started with fooling around with "Iko Iko" in D and then just moving around to different keys and doing all kinds of tunes.

There is really something different about playing good old rock and roll or American music versus the legit stuff.

Even at a medium tempo, some combination of thinking of stuff to play on the fly and making it sound good really does the job on the wrists and forearms.

I don't think there's any way to avoid it — everything that's fun to play and doesn't require much memory is pretty much fattening. Needs the muscles, don't care about the side effects.

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ETA Oh yeah, "Never Will I Marry" is an odd tune. I had to look it up in the Real Book as I was ending my solo jam session. I guess the only trick is it's really in Eb but starts on Ab chord, but it's still a tune I don't feel a need to commit to memory: it was hard enough just remembering the basic idea when trying to segue from "Just A Gigolo" (an actual tune in Ab) that I had the good luck to have the right volume of the Real Book somewhere within arm's reach after getting frustrated trying to sound it out.

EETA On the good news, once I figured out the "trick" of the tune, I was almost able to remember all of "It Could Happen To You" in Eb and got a chance to fake the Red Garland/Wynton Kelly idea. Not a hard tune, but kind of has a tricky pseudo-bridge.

After not playing jazz for a while, it is pretty hard to get a really fluent, nice flowing line. The feel is there, but what I hear in my mind is not what comes out in the RH improvised lines. Meh, it's good enough jazz for what the kids are listening to these days. It's not good enough for me, but it does feel good to just play off the top of the head.

I'm not sleepy, and there is no place...I'm going to. In the jingle, jangle morning

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Originally posted by Jizzelbin

I'm not sleepy, and there is no place...I'm going to. In the jingle, jangle morning

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Holy crap, that was awful, worst then his infamous Lucy in the Sky.

Of course I need to answer with this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q8oi-csdSE

Mister.......TAM....BOURINE......MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Yeah, I didn't think Shatner could out-Shatner himself, but he did it. I wonder about what he was thinking, except maybe earning his paunch the honest way, through lots of fattening...drugs or something. What an odd man.

NO! I refuse to listen to the Nimoy "Ballad of Bilbo Baggins" again, although that was a worthy retort. Perhaps this thread will scare some kids straight and keep them off the living nightmare of horrid novelty recordings.

On the Good hand, some van drivers at work at 0 dark thirty were rapping on the old tune "Thunderbird" (you know, "What's the price? Sixty twice!" (Although I prefer "cut it twice," but it's just an old tune with made-up words).

My mobile connection is running slow, but I must put in a plug for James Booker's "Wine Spo-de-Odee" from the Maple Leaf recording in NOLA. Solo piano, solo singing. Yeah, he doesn't say "Wine motherfucker drinkin' wine!" which I guess was the original hobo/ghetto version and the one I like to sing, but that performance opened my ears to how much crazy can be combined with real music. In G IIRC.