On calling women "sluts" "whores" and "hookers"

Ok, so quick experiment - every guy here who has been called a "manslut" or a "gigolo" - raise your hand.

Now every women here who hasn't been called one of the insults in the thread title or one of their derivations, for crimes ranging from wearing make-up or shaving your legs, for the clothes you wear or even *gasp shock* choosing to participate or talk about sexual activity, raise your hand. Multiply that by the number of women in this society and just think about the kind of culture it creates when we propagate that shit.

Just think about what you are saying, please.

what's your point, that society isn't what you'd like it to be?

O Myrna. I was hoping for more froth. :(

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Originally posted by hatesfreedom

what's your point, that society isn't what you'd like it to be?

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Not much I can do about society, but I'd like to not see that stuff here.

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Originally posted by Zuul

O Myrna. I was hoping for more froth. :(

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I literally cannot win. :fail:

OK, srsly, I don't think I've ever been called a slut, whore, or hooker. I'm just sayin'. (And I do shave my legs.)

Sarahfeena you're an awful slag. :)

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

OK, srsly, I don't think I've ever been called a slut, whore, or hooker. I'm just sayin'. (And I do shave my legs.)

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I'm confused, is the leg shaving thing a joke I am missing? I thought it was only women that don't that were mocked in the US?

So Myrna, just curious, are you expecting other posters to not insult non-posters with words like slut, whore, or hooker? Or just each other?

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Originally posted by What Exit?

I'm confused, is the leg shaving thing a joke I am missing? I thought it was only women that don't that were mocked in the US?

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Myrna said in the OP that women get called sluts for shaving their legs. I was just responding to that.

I'm not saying it's not a sexist world out there...god knows it is. But I'm a typical woman who's done normal shit over the last 20 some odd years, and I'm pretty sure I've never been called a slut for any of it.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

So Myrna, just curious, are you expecting other posters to not insult non-posters with words like slut, whore, or hooker? Or just each other?

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Considering I am not Zuul, I cannot lay down any expectations of what other posters will or will not say. I am just asking that we examine the thought process behind applying those words.

ETA: On the leg shaving thing - it's pretty common for parents to not allow their teenage daughters to shave their own legs, specifically because it is seen (by them) as an act that heralds sexual availability.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

OK, srsly, I don't think I've ever been called a slut, whore, or hooker. I'm just sayin'. (And I do shave my legs.)

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I have, quite a few times by a nasty ex, and it sucks. It's pretty upsetting on a couple different levels. On the one hand, I've been insulted! I want to defend myself! I'm hurt and angry. On the other, there's nothing wrong with being a sexual being. The fact that I wear a C cup and if I don't wear a very baggy shirt it's going to be boobtastic does not somehow make me a bad person. If I wanted to wear revealing clothing, or have sex, or flirt outrageously, that would not make me a bad person. But calling me a slut or a whore implies that A) I am doing those things and B) those things are bad.

It's fucked up. I'm happy for you that you haven't had to deal with it, but I assure you it's a tool that is used to hurt women every day across the world.

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Originally posted by Zuul

I have, quite a few times by a nasty ex, and it sucks. It's pretty upsetting on a couple different levels. On the one hand, I've been insulted! I want to defend myself! I'm hurt and angry. On the other, there's nothing wrong with being a sexual being. The fact that I wear a C cup and if I don't wear a very baggy shirt it's going to be boobtastic does not somehow make me a bad person. If I wanted to wear revealing clothing, or have sex, or flirt outrageously, that would not make me a bad person. But calling me a slut or a whore implies that A) I am doing those things and B) those things are bad.

It's fucked up. I'm happy for you that you haven't had to deal with it, but I assure you it's a tool that is used to hurt women every day across the world.

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OK, I've got it. I was seriously confused by what Myrna was getting at. I think you're right that it happens a lot, but I think that when you ask it in the way that Myrna did, then it's going to cause a lot of :???: because there are a ton of people it has never happened to, as well. So, by personalizing it to "think about when this has happened to you," it's confusing.

Also: that person was an asshole. And some people just are, whatever the weapon they use, they're going to use one, and probably the one that they think is going to be the most upsetting.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I'm not saying it's not a sexist world out there...god knows it is. But I'm a typical woman who's done normal shit over the last 20 some odd years, and I'm pretty sure I've never been called a slut for any of it.

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Not even in high school? Middle school? It's a pretty pervasive insult there IME.

If haven't seen sexually insulted like that (not to your face at least), then I'm glad for you.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

Considering I am not Zuul, I cannot lay down any expectations of what other posters will or will not say. I am just asking that we examine the thought process behind applying those words.

ETA: On the leg shaving thing - it's pretty common for parents to not allow their teenage daughters to shave their own legs, specifically because it is seen (by them) as an act that heralds sexual availability.

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Trying to think if I have ever used those words to insult someone on the boards and I don't think I have, but damn, do we have to be so politically correct. You sound a bit like Ed here with the C-Word.

As the ETA: well there is one I never thought about or knew about. But wouldn't even that only apply to minors and not women?

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

Not even in high school? Middle school? It's a pretty pervasive insult there IME.

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Nope, not that I ever knew of.

Feminism has changed a bit, too. I'm kind of an old-school feminist, where you did what you could to draw attention away from your womanly gifts so people would focus on your brain and your abilities. I think that when it comes to clothing, I'm still very much in that mindset.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Trying to think if I have ever used those words to insult someone on the boards and I don't think I have, but damn, do we have to be so politically correct. You sound a bit like Ed here with the C-Word.

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Yeah, my expressing my opinion as a poster is exactly like the head of a message board saying people will be banned for using a word. For the third time (and I think I made it pretty clear the first or second time) I am not asking for anything like a ban on these words, I only want to talk about the attitude behind them.

You in particular seem to have a problem with people speaking up against things they find objectionable. I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but someone saying something is insulting to them is not an attack on your personal freedoms, or an insult to you, even though you always react like it is.

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As the ETA: well there is one I never thought about or knew about. But wouldn't even that only apply to minors and not women?

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Sexist attitudes applied to teenagers are just as destructive if not more so than those applied to adults, Jim.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I think you're right that it happens a lot, but I think that when you ask it in the way that Myrna did, then it's going to cause a lot of because there are a ton of people it has never happened to, as well. So, by personalizing it to "think about when this has happened to you," it's confusing.

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I didn't say that all women have been insulted in that way, so I don't see the reason why the fact that you are an exception would derail my point or cause confusion. As Zuul said and as you acknowledge, many, many, many women are sexually insulted and that is pretty much all I was saying.

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Originally posted by Zuul

I have, quite a few times by a nasty ex, and it sucks.

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That's your example? That some nasty ex called you some names and it hurt? What the fuck did you think it was supposed to do? Did you imagine he was going to get you flowers?

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

OK, I've got it. I was seriously confused by what Myrna was getting at. I think you're right that it happens a lot,

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It does happen a lot, you're in the minority because you grew up in a cult in the middle of the country and weren't attractive or interesting enough to get attention. Congratulations.


Come on women, grow some damn thicker skins. You're bitching about some word people call you and becoming the victim like it's your birthright. Man up and stop caring what other people think about you. For as useless as Zuuls example was at least it's the one instance where it's supposed to hurt.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

I didn't say that all women have been insulted in that way, so I don't see the reason why the fact that you are an exception would derail my point or cause confusion. As Zuul said and as you acknowledge, many, many, many women are sexually insulted and that is pretty much all I was saying.

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Uh...you asked me to raise my hand, so I did.

ETA: And then I was like, "why did she want people who this HASN'T happened to to raise their hand? I'm confused." Do you see why now?

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Originally posted by hatesfreedom

Come on women, . . . Man up

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I think he's saying he likes women to peg him.

Sluts, whores and hookers are all good things in my book, hence I'd never use those words as pejoratives. Harpy, shrew, lawyer, puritan, defendant, now those are all mean things to call someone.

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Originally posted by Exy

I think he's saying he likes women to peg him.

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There's an amusing story along these lines that I will probably never tell anybody. :smug:

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

Feminism has changed a bit, too. I'm kind of an old-school feminist, where you did what you could to draw attention away from your womanly gifts so people would focus on your brain and your abilities. I think that when it comes to clothing, I'm still very much in that mindset.

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Although this thread was (partly) inspired by your wedding dress thread, people's taste in clothes is not at all what this thread is about. I also don't at all think that preferring long wedding dresses to short ones makes one a bad feminist or anything like that. That's not anywhere near the point I'm trying to make, and I apologize if you thought I was implying it.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

ETA: And then I was like, "why did she want people who this HASN'T happened to to raise their hand? I'm confused." Do you see why now?

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Yeah, I get it now although I meant it more as a device and not like, a literal request for data. :)

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

Although this thread was (partly) inspired by your wedding dress thread, people's taste in clothes is not at all what this thread is about. I also don't at all that preferring long wedding dresses to short ones makes one a bad feminist or anything like that. That's not anywhere near the point I'm trying to make, and I apologize if you thought I was implying it.

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No, no need for an apology, not at all. It's just funny that I also consider myself a strong feminist, but I think you and I have very different ideas about what that means.

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Yeah, I get it now although I meant it more as a device and not like, a literal request for data. :)

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Oh, I know. I just was like, "OK, this hasn't happened to me, but how is that relevant...wait, what?"

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Originally posted by hatesfreedom

That's your example? That some nasty ex called you some names and it hurt? What the fuck did you think it was supposed to do? Did you imagine he was going to get you flowers?

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No, you misunderstand. He is an ex because he said those things, not that he said them after he was an ex. It was right before I started college and he wasn't going. I'm sure he was insecure and thinking I'd leave him for someone else, so his oh-so-rational response to this was to berate me on being a slut and a whore. Wearing a shirt that shows a hint of belly if I raise my arms? I'm a whore! Wearing a pair of cutoffs in the Nevada summer? Slut! It started out in a "joking" manner and then just got really obnoxious and not-so-joking. Imagine if every time you got together with a woman she called you a premature ejaculator, as a "joke." It would get old fast.

But that isn't my sole example and he wasn't what my post was about; that was just one particular person who came to mind for saying it a lot.

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Originally posted by hatesfreedom

Come on women, grow some damn thicker skins. You're bitching about some word people call you and becoming the victim like it's your birthright. Man up and stop caring what other people think about you.

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You. are. hysterical.

You are one of the most angry people here (at least I assume something has to power that urge to be a complete prick to almost everyone) and yet you never fail to come in and lecture people for being angry. Hey ferret, I get that as a straight white male you don't really need to worry about this shit, and the fact that you have chosen to live without empathy for the people who do is all on you. But from here on out, every time you pull this little maneuver I'm just gonna fucking laugh it up about your hypocrisy.

With regards to the wedding dress thread, I think there is a small but pertinent difference between calling a woman a slut and calling a style of clothing slutty. One is a judgement on a person, the other is a judgement on a person's taste in clothes. Which is much less serious to me.

Personally, I have no compunctions about using "trashy", or "slutty" in describing ostentatiously sexy/revealing outfits. (I've used it about my own clothes on an occasion or two.)

[/person who has never been called a slut/hooker/prostitution-whore, just 'bitch' and 'lesbian']

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

You. are. hysterical.

You are one of the most angry people here (at least I assume something has to power that urge to be a complete prick to almost everyone) and yet you never fail to come in and lecture people for being angry. Hey ferret, I get that as a straight white male you don't really need to worry about this shit, and the fact that you have chosen to live without empathy for the people who do is all on you. But from here on out, every time you pull this little maneuver I'm just gonna fucking laugh it up about your hypocrisy.

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wowie, someone needs to get laid

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Originally posted by Zuul

No, you misunderstand. He is an ex because he said those things

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Ooooh. Oh. Well ok then. I had an ex like that too. It was something.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

Yeah, my expressing my opinion as a poster is exactly like the head of a message board saying people will be banned for using a word. For the third time (and I think I made it pretty clear the first or second time) I am not asking for anything like a ban on these words, I only want to talk about the attitude behind them.

You in particular seem to have a problem with people speaking up against things they find objectionable. I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but someone saying something is insulting to them is not an attack on your personal freedoms, or an insult to you, even though you always react like it is.

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And you really give words too much power.

:???:

Is this really about the sexy wedding dress thread? Maybe I have a big blind spot here, but I didn't see much in the way of oppressive stereotypes being perpetrated there, and I don't recall the terms slut or whore - which are far uglier and more serious-sounding than the playful tart - being used at all. The irony here is that we're talking about an occasion (i.e. weddings) where the woman has far more freedom to choose what she will wear than the man, who is pretty much reduced to deciding what color cummerbund.

I've never been called any of those words, either. And my parents didn't comment when I started shaving my legs, (in about 1958) except my dad was annoyed that I ruined his razor blades.

The words "slut", "bitch", and "whore" are just words, but used as insults, hurled at a woman or girl to hurt her, they are ugly words and do cause pain. To be called an ugly name because of your breasts jiggling under your shirt or your tummy shows or you wear mascara or a short skirt - of course it says horrible things about the person who would call those names for those reasons. To be called a slut or a whore because you've had and enjoyed sex? Again, it is only revealing the stupidity and evil-minded nastiness of the person who says it - which is probably hard to remember when you're the one being insulted.

I can think of only one woman who was never in any danger of being called those things, and she apparently gave birth to a boy child without having had sex and that boy child went on to a very high career indeed - a strange tale worth discussing elsewhere, perhaps. Meanwhile, I take Myrnalene's point and for myself I don't use the words at all about anyone at any time.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

:???:

Is this really about the sexy wedding dress thread? Maybe I have a big blind spot here, but I didn't see much in the way of oppressive stereotypes being perpetrated there, and I don't recall the terms slut or whore - which are far uglier and more serious-sounding than the playful tart - being used at all. The irony here is that we're talking about an occasion (i.e. weddings) where the woman has far more freedom to choose what she will wear than the man, who is pretty much reduced to deciding what color cummerbund.

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Uh, no. The cummerband has to match the bride's color choices. Geez. :smack

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Originally posted by What Exit?

And you really give words too much power.

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I give them power? Me? Not the people that have used sexual insults for pretty much ever to discredit women, to hurt and disempower them? I am not giving them their power. I am acknowledging their power.

It is not up for you to decide that words are not harmful to a group that you do not belong to. But I have explained this to you again and again and I really doubt you are going to get it this time. You are monumentally self-centered when it comes to this type of thing. If something doesn't bother you personally (and hardly anything ever does), then it shouldn't bother anyone, period.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

:???:

Is this really about the sexy wedding dress thread? Maybe I have a big blind spot here, but I didn't see much in the way of oppressive stereotypes being perpetrated there, and I don't recall the terms slut or whore - which are far uglier and more serious-sounding than the playful tart - being used at all. The irony here is that we're talking about an occasion (i.e. weddings) where the woman has far more freedom to choose what she will wear than the man, who is pretty much reduced to deciding what color cummerbund.

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I said inspired partly by. You will notice I did not call out that thread or anyone in it.

And FWIW, I don't consider "hooker" (which was used in that thread) any more acceptable than "whore".

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

Now every women here who hasn't been called one of the insults in the thread title or one of their derivations, for crimes ranging from wearing make-up or shaving your legs, for the clothes you wear or even *gasp shock* choosing to participate or talk about sexual activity, raise your hand. Multiply that by the number of women in this society and just think about the kind of culture it creates when we propagate that shit.

Just think about what you are saying, please.

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I agree. It all boils down to basic courtesy, respect and self-control.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

who is pretty much reduced to deciding what color cummerbund.

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http://media.redgaloshes.com/sq/273/030672.jpg

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

I said inspired partly by. You will notice I did not call out that thread or anyone in it.

And FWIW, I don't consider "hooker" (which was used in that thread) any more acceptable than "whore".

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OK, I'm going to have to agree with Orual, though...there's a difference between saying someone is dressed like a hooker and saying she IS a hooker. There's a definite look that says "hooker" in our culture. If a person thinks that a particular wedding dress has that look, and it's not a look they necessarily want to sport at their wedding, is that sexist? I'm going to say no.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

I said inspired partly by. You will notice I did not call out that thread or anyone in it.

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Then what is it? If not that thread in particular, you're calling out the board in general, and there are only about 25 of us, so it's not exactly a crowded room you're pointing into.

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And FWIW, I don't consider "hooker" (which was used in that thread) any more acceptable than "whore".

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Well, they're all basically the same word; all that's going to vary is context and intent. When I hear "slut" or "whore," I think of someone slinging invective at a woman, either over her sexual choices or just as a general insult. That's ugly. When I hear "hooker," I think the person saying it is most likely making a joke, just because the word sounds quaint. I guess I could be offended by "hooker" in the right context. :???:

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

I give them power? Me? Not the people that have used sexual insults for pretty much ever to discredit women, to hurt and disempower them? I am not giving them their power. I am acknowledging their power.

It is not up for you to decide that words are not harmful to a group that you do not belong to. But I have explained this to you again and again and I really doubt you are going to get it this time. You are monumentally self-centered when it comes to this type of thing. If something doesn't bother you personally (and hardly anything ever does), then it shouldn't bother anyone, period.

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You do go on and on about words and how horrible they are. It just seems rather extreme. Sometimes you act like the offenderati that I thought I left behind in the other place.

You'll at least do me the service of admitting that for a self-centered person, I do not actually use the terms you complain about? So I do get why they should not be used, but I think you take it too far. We really don't need thought police, most of the time the offensive terms are used on this board it is as a mild joke.

I think you give words too much power and I don't think you will get it this time or any time.

Huh. I think the most important point in the OP is:

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think about the kind of culture it creates when we propagate that shit.

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It's not about giving words power, but rather recognizing the power they have already. We've all been raised in a culture where women's sexuality is often viewed in a negative light. And regardless of what any one us feels personally about that topic, those words are still loaded.

It's kind of hard to accuse any one person of "giving words too much power", when language's power is collective and no one person can really take the power away from a word. People do reclaim terms, but it only means anything if a whole bunch of them do.

To me, it's pretty telling that terms like "manslut" even need to exist. And let's be honest, that doesn't really carry much weight as an insult, does it?

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

think about the kind of culture it creates when we propagate that shit.

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Originally posted by Taumpy

Huh. I think the most important point in the OP is:

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But the culture on this board is pretty damned politically correct, and not just in the sense of avoiding unfashionable words, but in the sense that we generally try to be aware of, and respectful of, people's sensitivities. This board is an incredibly accepting place, compared to the real world as well as the internet in general. Hell, of the three message boards I regularly post to, this is the only one where I never have to get in someone's e-face over using "fag" as a general insult.

This whole thread, in light of the general tone on this message board, is just surreal to me. I know I'm wearing out the confused smiley, but: :confused:

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Originally posted by Taumpy

To me, it's pretty telling that terms like "manslut" even need to exist. And let's be honest, that doesn't really carry much weight as an insult, does it?

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In most circles it's a complement. At least between men.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

But the culture on this board is pretty damned politically correct, and not just in the sense of avoiding unfashionable words, but in the sense that we generally try to be aware of, and respectful of, people's sensitivities. This board is an incredibly accepting place, compared to the real world as well as the internet in general. Hell, of the three message boards I regularly post to, this is the only one where I never have to get in someone's e-face over using "fag" as a general insult.

This whole thread, in light of the general tone on this message board, is just surreal to me. I know I'm wearing out the confused smiley, but: :confused:

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Are you wanting me to name names, or what? I have expressed that some of the wording in that thread made me uncomfortable (and no, I don't really see a big emotional difference between saying someone dresses like a ho and saying they are a ho) and used that address a larger point about why that language bothers me. I'm not asking anyone else to agree with me, just to listen.

I agree that this board is in general a very accepting place, but it's also a place where you can't even say, hey I find this language a bit problematic, without some asshole jumping in and telling you that you are exactly like Ed Zotti and that you give words too much power and shut up you whiny hysterical offenderati. This is not the first or the second or even the fifth time this exact scenario has happened (and not just to me), and it's starting to get on my fucking nerves, if you want to know the truth.

ETA: Seriously, I am now accused of being the "thought police". How much more ridiculous can you get, really?

Myrna, I don't think we're going to reach agreement or see eye to eye here. I'll keep thinking about what you've said, though.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

Myrna, I don't think we're going to reach agreement or see eye to eye here. I'll keep thinking about what you've said, though.

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Thank you, Ocee. That kind of response is seriously the best I was hoping for out of this.

I don't think that people will stop using sexually repressive words casually until there is a paradigm shift in society. But it can happen and we are well on the way to it, although we still have a ways to go. When I was young words like smoke, spook and nigger were in common use. Then only when there were no black people around. And now only when dumbasses think they are with like minded people.(Why they think I'm like them I'll never know, but I do like to let them know otherwise.)
The way we bring about this paradigm change is through letting people know that it is offensive. Things like this thread are but tiny steps along the way but every little bit helps.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

You do go on and on about words and how horrible they are. It just seems rather extreme. Sometimes you act like the offenderati that I thought I left behind in the other place.

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You know, you should look at what you've been posting in this thread and consider the irony of you throwing around a term like "offenderati". Frankly, the comparative lack of self-righteous, "politically incorrect" whining here has made it a whole lot nicer a place than the SDMB.

You know, if you had paid a little better attention you probably would have noticed the fact that threads about these topics always had a huge majority of people bragging about how they weren't "politically correct" and usually making spurious complaints about the word "African-American" and offering up warmed-over stand-up routines from 1991 about made-up words like "vertically challenged". But, I mean, that was sort of to be expected, because the SDMB is infested with retards.

Of all things to complain about, the idea that the SDMB is somehow full of left-wing "offenderati" is just ludicrous. Just because the Freeper-types there whine endlessly about it doesn't actually make it true.

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We really don't need thought police, most of the time the offensive terms are used on this board it is as a mild joke.

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"thought police"? :roll: Get some perspective.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

ETA: On the leg shaving thing - it's pretty common for parents to not allow their teenage daughters to shave their own legs, specifically because it is seen (by them) as an act that heralds sexual availability.

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I hope this will be taken light-heartedly, but I had to laugh at this. I didn't mind my daughter shaving her OWN legs, but I would have caviled at her shaving someone else's. ;)

I have to agree with Sarahfeena--to my knowledge, I've never been called whore or slut or skank. I'm almost 48, if that matters. Bitch? Oh, yeah. Frigid bitch-yes. Controlling, humorless, bitter, drill seargent, "needs some"--yup.

People make judgments all the time about character and attractiveness based on clothing choices and general appearance. Doesn't make it right, but that's the way it is. But given that there is no male equivalent of "slut" or "whore" (not pejorative; not prejudicial-gigolo and manslut both carry a sense of wink, wink, say-no-more about them), these words do carry cultural baggage and not for the betterment of society. I don't see anything changing any time soon, though.
Frankly, I don't see anything particularly "liberating" to dress in blatantly sexually suggestive ways (and allowing that sexually suggestive is a subjective phrase), but that's perhaps another thread all together.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

Myrna, I don't think we're going to reach agreement or see eye to eye here. I'll keep thinking about what you've said, though.

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OK, I've been thinking about this a lot, too, and I guess the part I'm hung up on is that I really do think that clothes send a message, and that there is legitimate reason to not want to send a particular message on a particular occasion. There is also a legitimate reason to think that certain style of clothing doesn't express your personality. If someone said that an outfit made them look like a librarian or a nun or something, that might not be flattering to librarians or nuns, but it's not inherently sexist. Likewise, if someone said that an outfit made them look like a hooker, I don't see how that is sexist necessarily. You may think it's overly uptight, depending on the outfit, but I don't see why it's not reasonable to prefer not to dress in something that would make people think of hookers. Hookers actually exist, and whether or not it's sexist to be put off by their existence is a separate issue.

Myrnalene, I would like to apologize to you. I still don't really agree with you as I don't believe this board has any real problem with these terms being tossed around lightly, but I get your point that they are only used against women and there are no male equivalents and that does suck. More importantly I apologize for my over-the-top anger. Comparing you to Zotti and thought-police was silly and stupid and I am sorry.

I would have apologized sooner, but honestly I was pissed at you calling me an asshole for disagreeing with you.

Jim

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Myrnalene, I would like to apologize to you. I still don't really agree with you as I don't believe this board has any real problem with these terms being tossed around lightly, but I get your point that they are only used against women and there are no male equivalents and that does suck. More importantly I apologize for my over-the-top anger. Comparing you to Zotti and thought-police was silly and stupid and I am sorry.

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Jim, I appreciate and accept your apology.

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I would have apologized sooner, but honestly I was pissed at you calling me an asshole for disagreeing with you.

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I called you an asshole not for disagreeing with me (I didn't call Sarah or Ocee an asshole, for instance), but for the behavior you have just apologized for. *falls down the rabbit hole*

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

Jim, I appreciate and accept your apology.

I called you an asshole not for disagreeing with me (I didn't call Sarah or Ocee an asshole, for instance), but for the behavior you have just apologized for. *falls down the rabbit hole*

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Sorry you are right again, but I felt like you called me an asshole for not agreeing with, I realize why you called me one though.

Then we're cool - I really am genuinely impressed with your apology. Thank you.

Dammit, if I'd known about this thread before I started quaffing my Hey It's Friday After Work! glass of wine, I'd have stayed clear-headed long enough to post something coherent. As it is, my pearls of wisdom will have to wait, because I'm most of the way through it (the wine, not the thread) and slightly loopy. In the immortal words of Arnold, I'll be back.

Please keep posting so this thread shows up in my subscribed threads. Urp. :drunk:

More women should be calling themselves sluts, whores and hookers. HO PRIDE.