A Kinda Half-Assed Apology From Ed, Sorta Thing

Remarkable how little I miss the Dope, thanks to our little treehouse here (thanks, CRSP!) I know I could delete my cookies and still look at the SDMB even though I'm banned, but that would be like looking in through a restaurant window and not being able to come inside.

I'm curious, though -- what's it like over there these days? Are the stupid new ill-defined rules still in place, and being enforced? How many bannings have there been? Has the whole tone of the Pit changed, or are people just choosing different words? (As I told Ed Zotti, "I'll never see your name again without thinking of the word 'cunt'".)

As much as I'd like to say the place has fallen into ruin and ashes without my constant posting, of course it hasn't. There's not as much going on, fewer threads that I personally find interesting, but there's still lots of threads and lots of posts. Heck, maybe there are more posts that other people find interesting now that I'm not constantly bumping my hobby horses up in the thread list.

There's a thread or two "wondering" why we potty-mouths needed to be such drama queens about the whole thing. Those are the ones that make me sad, because they illustrate how some people just don't get it. And to go into those threads and post, again, what my concerns are and how they're merely illustrated by, not caused by, Rule #2 will, in the eyes of those same posters, just reinforce the idea that I'm a whiny drama queen who can't just quietly let the door hit me in the ass on the way out.

Have you ever gone back to your old high school long after graduation? And the hallways seem much smaller and the classrooms are full of ghosts of your half-remembered times there, but there's all these weird looking children hanging around your old locker as if they own the place? Yeah, it feels kind of like that right now.

I think I mentally gave up on the SDMB the other day when I was reading one of the ATMB threads and saw this statement from tomndebb:

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I have made sufficiently few errors that one rarely has an opportunity to see either an error or an admission of same. There is no need.

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This just encapsulates the attitude of the staff to me. I have no patience for people who think they don't make mistakes, because everyone does. Some intrepid souls are still arguing with him, but seriously, how can you even debate issues of fairness with someone like that? "You're wrong because I'm always right" is basically the argument...how can you fight that?

I saw that too, and at first blush I thought he was trying to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. Then I saw that Shodan, PRR, Zoe, and Oakminster were all trying to point out the same thing to him. A bunch of people who are THAT different, all seeing the same thing ?? That tells me something.

ETA: I almost forgot, Starving Artist also. Geez people, just come on over here already.

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Originally posted by NinetyWt

I saw that too, and at first blush I thought he was trying to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. Then I saw that Shodan, PRR, Zoe, and Oakminster were all trying to point out the same thing to him. A bunch of people who are THAT different, all seeing the same thing ?? That tells me something.

ETA: I almost forgot, Starving Artist also. Geez people, just come on over here already.

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I would have spoke up too, but I don't actually like complaining and bowed out. I'd rather spend my time positively here.

I doubt it's even registered w/them that I haven't posted in a long while.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

This just encapsulates the attitude of the staff to me. I have no patience for people who think they don't make mistakes, because everyone does.

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I notice you did not bother to quote the three admissions of error just in the last year that were linked in the same post.

I am so tired of numerous, otherwise intelligent posters at the SDMB saying that the only reason there was a mass exodus was because we weren't able to say fuck, etc.

Kill that strawman, set him on fire, and piss on the ashes.

Morons.

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Originally posted by tomb

I notice you did not bother to quote the three admissions of error just in the last year that were linked in the same post.

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IMO it was the attitude conveyed by the post which carried the most weight, quoted admissions notwithstanding. Probably wasn't meant quite the way it reads, but it won't be construed as anything else. Quite unfortunate.

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Originally posted by wring

I doubt it's even registered w/them that I haven't posted in a long while.

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Leave a goodbye. Sure, there'll be people who scoff at you for it, but it's not for them. It's for the people who would miss you. (And believe me, there are plenty.) You can't blame people for not missing you if you act like you don't miss them either.

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Originally posted by Liberal

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Originally posted by wring

I doubt it's even registered w/them that I haven't posted in a long while.

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Leave a goodbye. Sure, there'll be people who scoff at you for it, but it's not for them. It's for the people who would miss you. (And believe me, there are plenty.) You can't blame people for not missing you if you act like you don't miss them either.

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PTB are reading here and elsewhere, I'm sure. I was pretty clearly upset at the new direction in more than one thread, more than one way. waves at sdmb ptb Hi, I'm not there anymore. You pissed me off enough.

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Originally posted by fisheroo

I am so tired of numerous, otherwise intelligent posters at the SDMB saying that the only reason there was a mass exodus was because we weren't able to say fuck, etc.

Kill that strawman, set him on fire, and piss on the ashes.

Morons.

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This was getting under my skin, too. I want to go over there and tell them to look at my 20,000 plus posting history, and look at how many times I used the words "fuck" or "cunt" - I believe it is once for "fuck" and no times at all for "cunt." Yes, it was all about the swearing for me. If they haven't got it yet, they never will, and I don't think there's anything I can say.

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Originally posted by wring

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Originally posted by Liberal

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Originally posted by wring

I doubt it's even registered w/them that I haven't posted in a long while.

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Leave a goodbye. Sure, there'll be people who scoff at you for it, but it's not for them. It's for the people who would miss you. (And believe me, there are plenty.) You can't blame people for not missing you if you act like you don't miss them either.

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PTB are reading here and elsewhere, I'm sure. I was pretty clearly upset at the new direction in more than one thread, more than one way. waves at sdmb ptb Hi, I'm not there anymore. You pissed me off enough.

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Well, as late as March 3, SkipMagic claimed not to know whom I meant by "CRSP", but that was the same day Ed Zotti registered here. Whether Zotti's really checking over here now, I don't know, since he couldn't be bothered to listen to people on his own board.

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Originally posted by featherlou

This was getting under my skin, too. I want to go over there and tell them to look at my 20,000 plus posting history, and look at how many times I used the words "fuck" or "cunt" - I believe it is once for "fuck" and no times at all for "cunt." Yes, it was all about the swearing for me. If they haven't got it yet, they never will, and I don't think there's anything I can say.

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People there say this shit routinely. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that it's part of SDMB culture to really heap scorn on anyone who has a problem with the (eternally shitty) way the board is run.

I don't remember any names (so don't think I mean this for you personally, featherlou, because I don't) but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who finally left this time were the same folks who got self-righteous about the people who were upset that paying customers were being shown ads, and the same people who used to come to every thread about a bad moderating decision to cheerlead for the moderators.

I'm just sayin'.

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Originally posted by tomb

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

This just encapsulates the attitude of the staff to me. I have no patience for people who think they don't make mistakes, because everyone does.

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I notice you did not bother to quote the three admissions of error just in the last year that were linked in the same post.

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Tom, I was doing you a favor by not showing those. Only one of them addressed a mod action, and it was a situation where you issued a warning in the wrong forum. All three were factual errors that could so easily be refuted that you HAD to admit you were wrong. The issue some people appear to have with you have to do with errors in judgement, not errors of fact. Citing these three examples makes you appear even more stubborn in this regard.

Look, I don't usually pay attention to these arguments about mod bias, as I really don't care that much what Zoe and prr have to whine about. But this statement of yours really left a bad taste in my mouth. I like to think that I have proven myself to be a reasonable person who doesn't accuse people unfairly, start fights, bitch about moderating, or for that matter, post dishonestly as you seem to be accusing me of here. Maybe you will keep that in mind and think about what you said and what it might sound like to the SDMB members.

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Originally posted by Baldwin

Well, as late as March 3, SkipMagic claimed not to know whom I meant by "CRSP", but that was the same day Ed Zotti registered here. Whether Zotti's really checking over here now, I don't know, since he couldn't be bothered to listen to people on his own board.

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Is the Cap'n really sure that's Zotti, and not just some joker?

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Originally posted by tomb

I notice you did not bother to quote the three admissions of error just in the last year that were linked in the same post.

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Tom! :) Come to the dark side. We have Black Pearl.

So when I do admit errors of fact, (and even apologize for a misstep as a mod), I am guilty of terrible things, and when I make a pretty blatant joke about my lack of errors and follow it up with admissions of errors I am still guilty of terrible things.
OK.

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Originally posted by Liberal

We have Black Pearl.

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Talk about the DARK side. That stuff is p'rt' near unreadable.
(I suspect that it was included to attract the goth 14-year-olds to using this software.) ;)

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Originally posted by tomb

Talk about the DARK side. That stuff is p'rt' near unreadable.
(I suspect that it was included to attract the goth 14-year-olds to using this software.) ;)

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[...giggle...] How did you know?

I tried out all the styles--once--just to see what they looked like.

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Originally posted by tomb

So when I do admit errors of fact, (and even apologize for a misstep as a mod), I am guilty of terrible things, and when I make a pretty blatant joke about my lack of errors and follow it up with admissions of errors I am still guilty of terrible things.
OK.

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I never said you did terrible things. I said you make mistakes. Everyone does. And if you meant that as a joke, you might want to make some use of the smileys.

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Originally posted by tomb

I tried out all the styles--once--just to see what they looked like.

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No, wait. See, the joke was... ah, hell, never mind. Good to see you!

Oh, my son tried goth when he was 14.

Well, now that you're here, you might as well hang around. You'll be on Ed's shit list anyway just for cavorting — especially with me. If you need an out, though, go ahead and ream me. I'll pretend to be upset.

I'm not sure why I would wish to ream you.
(And Ed is not going to give me any grief about posting on another message board, even this one. I have not seen a single negative remark about fluiddruid, for example, or even Giraffe. I suspect that some views of Ed are imperfect extrapolations based on inadequate information. I recall Melin telling me about friendly conversations in which she had engaged with Ed after her banning. I'm not going to try to turn this into a "Poor Ed is just misunderstood" appeal, but I think it is only fair of me to note that he rarely breathes fire and has only eaten one or two of his children.)

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Originally posted by tomb

I'm not sure why I would wish to ream you.
(And Ed is not going to give me any grief about posting on another message board, even this one. I have not seen a single negative remark about fluiddruid, for example, or even Giraffe. I suspect that some views of Ed are imperfect extrapolations based on inadequate information. I recall Melin telling me about friendly conversations in which she had engaged with Ed after her banning. I'm not going to try to turn this into a "Poor Ed is just misunderstood" appeal, but I think it is only fair of me to note that he rarely breathes fire and has only eaten one or two of his children.)

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Which is why my main complaint from the get go was Ed has failed to communicate to the general Doper community. I don't think he is a monster, I think he has just done a poor job with the existing dope community.

Welcome to Domebo Tom. I did not realize it was you the other day in the avatar thread. I thought you were a crypt like structure and not Tom B. ;)

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Originally posted by tomb

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Originally posted by Liberal

We have Black Pearl.

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Talk about the DARK side. That stuff is p'rt' near unreadable.
(I suspect that it was included to attract the goth 14-year-olds to using this software.) ;)

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Wait-isn't that the comic series written by Mark Hamill?


WhyNot, of course he's not a monster. He's a dumbass prick, but not a monster.

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Originally posted by tomb

I'm not going to try to turn this into a "Poor Ed is just misunderstood" appeal.

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No, of course not. He's a brilliant guy who so masterfully runs his website that he has driven hundreds of paying customers off it in a strategic attempt to make it financially viable. Or is that our fault, somehow? He couldn't have done a more effective job of getting us to leave if he had just announced that we were all a bunch of whining idiots whose business he didn't want--oh, wait, that's exactly what he did do.

Reminds me of my former boss; at every meeting he would remind us that we could leave if we didn't want to work there. Boy, was he right.

From here:

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Originally posted by Ed Zotti

OK, having talked it over with Gfactor, I'm throwing in the towel on this one - too much trouble. We'll go back to what we had before, which was basically: (a) Profanity is permitted in thread titles. (b) Don't go nuts. (c) We reserve the right to do something about titles we think are over the top. This will of course dash our plans to market the Pit as the place to advertise Girl Scout cookies and flowers for mom, but we'll think of something.

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As pointed out elsewhere, I prefer to limit my swearing; so returning to the old rules will not really affect me. Nor will it cure the real problems that have angered or annoyed most of us. But it's a start, and this action does back up part of Ed's apology.

Too little, too late, IMHO. It was a boneheaded move that anyone with any sense would never have done.

He still hasn't reversed Rule #2, though (unless I missed the news!?)

Oh, for fuck's sake, Ed. The "no swearing" rule was always stupid, it was always unenforceable, and you had thousands of posts asking you to change it. You were so bloody pigheaded and obstinate that you rammed it through anyway, and alienated half the message board in the process.

And now, after all of this, you shrug your shoulders and say offhandedly "I'm throwing in the towel". You can swear in thread titles after all, and if you can swear there, how long before Rule 2 is dropped with a muttered "my bad". You split the boards and piss off a thousand people with your hamfisted arrogance - and it turns out it isn't something you can be bothered enforcing anyway? Why the fuck didn't you back down at the outset and save us all a lot of grief, you dumb cunt?

Damn Scissorjack. And all you got was a warning from the Skipster.

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Originally posted by Scissorjack

You split the boards

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Maybe we should refer to Ed as the Karate Kid? Or the Karate Kunt?

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Originally posted by Cluricaun

Damn Scissorjack. And all you got was a warning from the Skipster.

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Una's in another thread though, complaining that Ed's getting flamed for only doing what people have asked for, so honestly, what's the big problem? The staff just don't get it. They just do not get it. Except maybe GFactor: I think he gets it, but he's too low on the mod totem pole to matter, more's the pity.

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Originally posted by Tuckerfan

Too little, too late, IMHO.

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It's not that it's too little, too late, it's that it's completely irrelevant. Nobody left because they couldn't swear in thread titles in the Pit.

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Originally posted by Scissorjack

Una's in another thread though, complaining that Ed's getting flamed for only doing what people have asked for, so honestly, what's the big problem?

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Una can FOAD.

If this was a movie, GFactor would be the "good cop" trying to do his job while the world goes to hell around him and his fellow cops are either on the take or too burned out to care.

GFactor is Jim Gordon?

Wait, we have a Batman here, and he used to be a poster over there. I can't remember the name he used there. No, it wasn't Bruce Wayne...

Sorry StraightGotham, Batman relocated to Domebopolis. You're fucked.

Yeah, but is he prepared? Makes a difference, you know.

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Originally posted by BooBoo

Yeah, but is he prepared?

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Yes: oiled, and lightly roasted. Not very salty, unfortunately.

It's not like the new rules are even working-people are still using profanity in the Pit against each other. And while occassionally they're warned, for the most part, they're getting away with it. (I don't even if the mods miss it, or if they just figure-I don't give a shit. You know, a subtle protest?)

No, that was the beautiful part about their plan. Swearing up a storm was against the rules, but they weren't going to, like, always enforce it. Just sometimes. Kinda. Sorta. Maybe. Under certain conditions.

See, that's part of what chased me out of there - I'm not likely to be personally targeted for moderator justice, but the capriciousness of it is not abated by Ed's latest announcement from on high - "We'll enforce the rules when we feel like it. If we don't like you, watch out."* That's just bullshit, pure and simple.

*Paraphrased.

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Originally posted by Borborygmi

Everybody drink!

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Best advice in the last three pages of this bloody me-me-me thread!

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Originally posted by Guinastasia

It's not like the new rules are even working-people are still using profanity in the Pit against each other. And while occassionally they're warned, for the most part, they're getting away with it. (I don't even if the mods miss it, or if they just figure-I don't give a shit. You know, a subtle protest?)

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I'd like to think that it's because none of the posters (the ones whom the rules are supposed to protect?) are at all offended enough to report any of it.