Printable View
Ah okay thanks for clearing the points thing up! I read "Order of the Stick" and that's so very "meta" that it wouldn't surprise me if some games do work that way--that is, with PCs knowing their points and such.
Speaking of Empires, or former ones anyway :devil: are either of you planning on watching the coronation tomorrow? (Well for you it's today now.)
I have no interest in watching the coronation as the chap being promoted:
- has a valet put toothpaste on his toothbrush
- thinks we should all swear an oath of allegiance to him
- committed adultery
@Aisliin and @GLee
I know, that's why I said "out of character" and this is the companion thread, hence commenting tongue-in-cheek that we as players would know that commoners are squishy, but in character he's just another guy. I was responding to GLee's (out of character in this thread) comment about Aislinn knowing they'd just killed a dragon. No need for the gentle reminder, I'm fully aware of what system we're playing and very strongly not meta-gaming anything. I assumed it was ok to openly joke about the irony of HP etc. in this thread, as GLee had already mentioned it :) Obviously in the actual story I would never make any comments about that, my comment here was just an aside that it was funny that we've just come back from slaying a dragon, and Aislinn in-character would still be like, "you're a strong farmer, why are you trusting me to save you!".
Apologies if it came across as meta-gaming, it really wasn't intended, I never meta-game, even if it has disastrous consequences! it was just a mild poke in a thread separate to the actual game-play, as I have had so many games in the past where players have forgotten just how squishy "normal people" are, and it plays out wonderfully in game when, for example, they try to hide behind the big burly (commoner) farmer rather than have the tiny pixie character (5th level cleric) boldly charge into battle!
Regarding the hat-on-an-old-bloke thing that everyone's got so excited about, no I'm not watching because I have some really important things to do today. I painted the wall in my downstairs loo and paint, it can be a tricksy bastard, so I'm going to be watching that drying. Also, I have 37 Eurovision videos to watch and take notes on, because we all know that the most important day is next Saturday. Also I need to wash my hair.
I think it's the perfect place to joke about meta stuff! I'm very new to all this, and we're all new to this game (except glee) so there's bound to be some breaking-in period where we figure out how the rules work and what our various playing styles are.
Well I bloody well watched the hat show. I didn't study British history and know it better than U.S. history to miss what might be the only coronation I'll see (if Charles has his parents' longevity and I have some very bad fortune indeed). Plus I was hoping to hear some Elgar. I loves me some Elgar. But NOTHING. I didn't even get Parry's "Jerusalem" which is very dear to me for some reason. The only things I could join in on were the first verse of your national anthem (which I didn't, because it doesn't feel right for an agnostic American!) and the Lord's Prayer (which I did, despite the agnosticism and also, y'know, being Jewish; technically there's not really anything in the Lord's Prayer that's specifically Christian, but it is from the NT so it's perhaps strange that I know it and don't mind saying it).
Anyway. It was nice seeing all the horses and Westminster Abbey is always breathtaking. And, Elgar or not, much of the music was truly beautiful and as a musician I reveled in it.
But I completely understand why others object to the whole thing. Now I finally get to go to sleep! :)
ping,
no problem with your "out of character" comment - as we all know the Internet can make it hard to tell wit + humour from serious stuff...
P.S. I relish the idea of you forgoing the Coronation to watch paint dry! ;) :D
For your information, as of yesterday, that will now be Cllr ping, thank you very much :D
[edit: you may address me as Sir, Ma'am, Oh Great One, or any other appropriate title]
Congratulations Councillor ping!Quote:
Originally posted by ping
And your party has the most seats on the council too...
(Choie, this election was at local level i.e. to make decisions within one of our 650 constituencies that make up the UK parliament. I'm confident the US equivalent would be winning Clark County in the State of Nevada, for example.)
Ooh yes congratulations, Cllr ping! I didn't even know Councillor had a prefix. How wonderful. We've now got two elected officials in the RPG section! (EH is a Judge!) Surely this is the most elite and influential section on the whole forum.
I mean it's also the only active section in the whole forum, but that's of no consequence.
Glee, Walker's asking some good questions that I'm not sure Aislinn knows the answer to yet--I know she got general info but the "tutorials" so to speak were elided over in the dream narrative. I'm going to have Aislinn try to remember if Nimue explained any specific limitations (other than numbers of times she can use certain spells, or if she has to be standing still--those I remember).
Is it okay to do it that way? I was thinking then the exposition can just let us know if Aislinn recalls whether Nimue gave her that answer, or if Aislinn will have to figure it out as she goes. (Either way is fine with me.)
I'll contact each player directly about what Eye sees exactly and what Aislinn knows about spells.
(I think it looks much better if you both put the information in your own words!)
For the forthcoming combat there will be a map of the 'starting position' as usual.
a) Would you like me to run the combat round by round? (i.e. one action at at time)
b) if so, would you like a new map at the start of each round?
Personally I think it would be good, not necessarily round by round, but to be able to have input when our characters would react or do something interesting other than just attack mindlessly :D Eg. if we're just hitting them for a few rounds then go for it, but perhaps if there's an interesting moment we'd be moving, interacting, if someone gets hurt, etc.
[edit] Sorry, that wasn't particularly coherent, I meant that I'd prefer to have some input in the battle rather than it all just play out with us on the sidelines until it was over. Some chances of RP in the middle would be nice, unless choie would prefer to just get it out of the way.
Yup I'm in accordance w/Madam Councillor. :) If we're performing general actions like "Aislinn thinks hard" (lol, sorry, she's not the most action-oriented type!), I'd be fine with watching any description that follows about whatever results from that action, esp. if the PC is just gonna repeat that action with only slight variations, until something significant changes that would require our input.
Whereas I would like the action to pause if something happens to which a PC needs to A) respond to make a tactical choice (e.g., choosing between changing to a new weapon or spell, or even fleeing) OR B) react with some physical/emotional response (e.g, if they receive a very painful blow or wound, or notice that a fellow party member is injured, or the enemies have impactful dialogue, etc.).
Like, let's say the exposition gets to a point such as, "Aislinn sends Faux Saradoc to hit the enemy w/his axe, and the soldier blocks the initial attack." It's pretty obvious Faux Saradoc would continue to fight and the actions would repeat. I don't think that warrants a pause on your part.
OTOH, it's quite different if the exposition is more like "Aislinn sends Faux Saradoc to hit the enemy w/his axe, but before Saradoc gets there the enemy swings out and slices him through. Saradoc disappears and the enemy starts looking around in confusion."
At that point Aislinn would clearly react to such things, both to change her strategy and to respond physically/emotionally to the change in circumstances. Those are things I'd want the chance to decide. I'd love for her part to pause to allow me the opportunity to post.
(For your efficiency's sake, you could just leave Aislinn's side of the fight & swap to whatever's going on with Walker until he needs to react. This way you don't have to keep pausing things for us individually, slowing things down. That's up to you of course.)
As for the map:
Unless the environment or various enemies' positions have changed significantly I wouldn't think you'd need to redraw the map. So if it's something obvious like "Three soldiers surround Walker as one continues to fight Faux Saradoc, and the fight moves a little closer to Giles's farm" that's fairly straightforward.
However, in cases like "the fighting continues and the party has been pushed back until you're near a cliff; the wheelbarrow is behind you" or "as you battle on, the soldiers have scattered, with two running to the east and one to the south, chasing Aislinn to a fork in the road while Walker finds himself by the opening to Giles's barn" -- that's probably where seeing things visually might be required for us to make decisions.
Does that make sense? ping does that accurately reflect your wishes too?
Yup, that was exactly what I was trying to convey just with less eloquence :) I'd like the ability to have some RP and/or control if there's a moment that warrants it. Exactly as you said. You described how Aislinn might prefer a moment to post in response to what's going on eg. if the illusion breaks/they see through it, for Walker it would be similar, he will be looking out for if someone was hurt or making movements, and I'd like as a player to be able to react to anything like this.Quote:
Originally posted by choie
Thanks for that helpful stuff - I will experiment with having a map where the environment is in ink, but the characters and all other folk are in pencil (so I can easily show them in a new situation.)
@choie: sorry for jumping in with a double-post there, my email from GLee about what Eye sees came just after the window to edit my original post. Take the two as the same post, the exchange between Walker and Eye would have been instantaneous-ish so take my second post as part of the first rather than me jumping in with a double-post.~
[edit, just checked and apparently it was just inside the edit-window, so sorry for double-posting]
Oh no worries at all, ping! I was expecting a GM post or your own, so wasn't planning on interrupting the flow before we heard a report from Eye. :)
And very fine it is too!Quote:
Originally posted by glee
Note to ping -- you must've been composing as I was editing. There's a section in my latest post when Aislinn mentions her hand itching--it now includes her revealing something to the men. Walker's thoughts would likely be quite different after seeing that! :)
Ah ok, I will check and re-edit.
[edit] I think it was actually the post that I was responding to, only possible change was the itching comment, which I've added in but otherwise his thoughts remain the same. He's seen you readjust your bandages and mess with the glove on your left hand and isn't an idiot. Also knows when to not push a subject. Was most definitely getting the "back off" vibes :)
Oh lol, I wouldn't think it'd take an idiot to notice this girl's massive scars on her hand, rather than whether she has a ring or not. Me, I'd probably assume she's just got a weird anxiety-based habit.
But really it's just that when I'd gone back to add in the glove removal thingy, your post wasn't there. I only spotted it after I'd saved the edit. I felt bad that you wouldn't have seen the new text and thought I'd give you the heads up in case you wanted Walker to respond accordingly--if only to mentally note the ugly wound. He's seemed quite sweetly intuitive about her fear so I figured he might be the same re: the girl's pain.
Ha, maybe what she took as his concern for her fear/safety was more "ugh, why are we stuck with a coward who's gonna be worthless in a fight? Maybe I can get her to leave!" :devil:
Anyway, Aislinn's clueless about his deductive reasoning abilities so alas, she's wrongheadedly decided there's only one way he could know about the ring--a little help from his avian pal!
Could be :P She does watch you while you sleep :P
So yes, in-character you don't know and maybe Walker knows, maybe Eye told him something, or maybe he's just guessing. Out-of-character, he has spent a lifetime watching people (and creatures) to learn/spot their habits and peculiarities to hide/fit in as appropriate, and he's just joined a new group so he's clocking everything you do :)
I'm just giving characters time to make any final adjustments, then the combat will start!
I'm done with Walker's actions.
I think I was clear with what Eye can and cannot do, but just out-of-character to choie: Eye can relay stuff to Walker, as in, if you do the YMCA dance she will be able to psychically describe or even show Walker you looking like a weird person doing a dance, and he can interpret that as "Oh, she's doing that dance!" or more seriously, if it was sign language, or signalling, she might not understand herself what you're trying to convey, but can pass on or show the message to Walker and he can interpret the meaning, then pass that meaning back via Eye or to you or Marron. Talking to GLee, she is similar to a satellite in that you can pass a message up to her, she passes it down to me, I can pass a message or instruction back up to her. She just can't communicate back to you in any verbal way, but can follow my instructions based on the information given. It would be pretty much instantaneous as Walker would be looking out for this in his mind, I would assume unless he is in the middle of action in combat... but then again a familiar screeching in your head will probably get your attention!
Just a clarification / warning:
- if Eye can see (or hear) a party member, then Walker will also know what is happening. (So if Eye is watching from above and sees an enemy creeping up on Marron, Walker will know this.)
- however Eye is just a bird and so it is almost impossible for her to 'pass on a message'. (For example if Eye flies down to warn a party member, she might get attacked herself!)
I assumed Walker would have to concentrate or get a mental "ping" from Eye? He wouldn't be seeing what she is seeing all the time unless he is focussed on that, no?
And yes, in a fight she would be staying out of reach, she's already had that instruction :)
I'm happy for Eye to ping* Walker if there is obvious danger to the party. Examples would be:
- any flying creature that might attack Eye
- large monster approaching party
- large group approaching party
- natural disaster approaching party
*pun intended!
It's been a hectic day, but I hope to move things along soon...
We wait with baited breath... Aislinn is perching in her tree, Walker is hunkered down in the tree-line, Marron has disappeared, Eye is hovering and waiting..............
Hey sorry for messing up as per usual. Glee reminded me that Fake Saradoc was supposed to be placed between and aligned with the hidden party members, not also between the soldiers ahead of them. I've changed that.
That's sort of what I assumed you meant, as per the plan :) Walker is hiding in the trees at the side ready to whack the guy/gal when in range. I didn't ask Eye to check their gender, but if they're the baddies then I'll hit a woman just as easily as a man!
No worries - it's tricky to do combats in an Internet thread. Meanwhile there's lots of fine roleplaying!
I'm preparing the combat - would you like to have one round at a time?
@GLee, what does Marron's Spiritual Weapon look like? Is it just a regular hammer or does it take an a different form?
(Just always love hearing what cleric spiritual weapons look like. My little dwarf tempest cleric has a little thunder-cloud that appears and hovers next to her head, ready to smite with lightning and thunder. Her Spirit Guardians are basically a ring of lightning crackles. My Knowledge cleric summons a holy book to smack people in the face with and his spirit guardians are a cloud of quills. Apologies, both of these are 5e subclasses, but I assume in 1e you would be able to still choose the form of your spiritual weapon :) )
Would the abovementioned idea about combat work here? Where we give our actions and you present us w/whatever the results are, and you'd continue until such point as one or both of the two PCs might want to choose their next tactics--or at least they should, in your secret opinion (though you wouldn't tell us which is which, ha!).Quote:
Originally posted by glee
E.g., if an opponent knocks one of our weapons away, or injures us (or a party member), or the opponent is injured, or something else happens that could need ping's or my input to decide what to do next. Even if it's at a stalemate and it seems Aislinn and Walker may need to step up our game.
ping, I will give a description of Marron's Clerical weapon in the game thread (though it may disappoint you ;) )
choie, that's fine.
In this combat, I have it clear that Walker, Marron + 'Saradoc' all attack the Empire Sergeant until he goes down.
So I'll run the combat until either the Sergeant or a character :o goes down...
I don't know why, but my camera is not downloading the latest map of the combat (which as you can see is going well for the party!)
Bear with me - the next round of combat will be uploaded this afternoon....
I rolled a *1* for damage?? Ughh. I resign my ranger status.
ping, it was a 1 on a d6 - about a 17% chance. And you did Surprise the patrol (worth a lot!)
Honestly, I expected the Sergeant to last longer (but everybody did jolly well - with Marron getting Scout bonus damage by attacking from behind...)
Woo hoo! I sorted my camera problem (surprisingly it seems to have a limit of 418 digital images...)
Just a sort of insight/perception check from Walker's perspective, how's the illusory Saradoc holding up, is there any sign that the people trying to hit hit notice that he's not real, and/or does he seem to be taking damage? ie. does he flinch etc? Walker would be looking out for this out of the corner of his eye because he is damn curious and weirded-out by this apparition. I don't want to interrupt the chat in the combat thread, but just be aware that he is tracking if this figure seems to be taking damage, and also if/when the soldiers notice he's not real.
Also, we must all be rolling terribly haha. Both us AND them! Get some better dice!
(We always joke that when we play with Dr C, and if another player is absent and he's taking control of their character, he sometimes forgets to switch from his DM-dice and suddenly the absentee, who hasn't managed to hit anything all campaign, rolls nat 20s all day!)
It may seem like both sides are rolling poorly, but bear in mind that the troopers have an effective AC of 2 (so Walker needs an 11*; 'Saradoc' needs a 16 and Marron 15 / 18 / 15.)
As for the troopers hitting back - they are 1st level Fighters. (The Sergeant was much more dangerous!)
Walker = 55%
‘Saradoc’ = 25%
Marron = (30% / 15% / 30%)
I've paused the combat to allow Aislinn to decide who ‘Saradoc’ helps next. (Both Walker and Marron look as if they are winning...)
N.B. ‘Saradoc’ should select between Walker and Marron. It will be impossible fight the trooper at the back as Aislinn cannot see round the bend in the forest path.
If anyone wants a further map, just let me know. There are three troopers left; one facing Walker, one fighting Marron and the third some distance away looking back down the path in the direction of Farmer Maggot's farm.
Yikes! I mean yay for the victory, but... gosh, it seems less than honorable to kill a previously badly injured guy who's barely able to stand upright (he couldn't even stand up while watching the rest of the fight--just sat on the wheelbarrow). All he was doing was walking toward us resignedly. Doesn't seem, well, cricket!
I can understand the reluctance to fight the last trooper. However it was the right thing to do for several reasons (allow me to explain.)
a) Empire Patrols will not surrender (and this particular lot had already murdered a shepherd and were ready to slaughter 'Saradoc' too.)
b) I've added the following to post 403 in the game thread to make things clearer.
DM: Marron makes an Alertness roll.
Marron realises that the trooper is simply irritated at having to kill the party himself. He calls out "Fight on - he's going to fight to the death!"
c) I know it's hard to absorb the mass of information I've provided :o , so let me draw your attention to some posts in the companion thread:
Post 3: The Empire uses Slavery. It sends out Empire Patrols around Sherwoodshire to 'practice combat' - which means kill anything you meet.
N.B. However the Empire does respect a diplomatic area such as Freeport and within such an area will only fight in self-defence, to protect Empire property or to recapture a Slave.
Post 7 : The Empire considers non-citizens as 'foreign savages'.
Post 39: It's considered morally acceptable to execute highwayman.
Post 41: There is a discussion of evil (including how to Detect it and what levels there are.)
Empire Patrols (unless met in a diplomatic area such as Freeport), Clerics of Mordred and powerful evil monsters (e.g. evil Dragons) are strong evil and cannot be converted from that.
Note that milder evil beings (e.g. Woody the Ogre) can sometimes be converted to neutrality.
I hope this helps - I've adopted this position partly because Lord of the Rings had similar views and also because it (hopefully!) makes game-play easier.
Thanks for that, I didn't see it before the edit, but the edit makes Walker a lot more comfortable with the outcome than I think he would have been with just killing the man on the cart, especially as Walker was the one wanting Marron to heal him, before Marron effectively refused.
Sure, that all makes sense in a game with these parameters, and no one knows about the Empire & its vile slavery rules more than Aislinn. But even with the retcon and/or granting all those rationales for killing even some badly injured dude who has no chance of survival against you and your two (or three, if you count "Saradoc") mates, it still seems hella inefficient and terrible strategy not to at least *try* to get some information out of the guy.
How else do the goodies learn anything if the second they meet any Empire dude they just lop off his head? Do dungeons or jails exist in these societies? Since the gang was heading to the Keep anyway, they could've wrapped the guy up and marched him to prison or whatever the medieval equivalent is.
Indeed, having death as the only punishment, no wonder an Empire soldier continues to fight until death even when outnumbered! The poor sod's dead either way. If mercy is shown at times, now and then some of the Empire soldiers might realize "y'know, maaaybe I'll just drop my sword and cooperate." Instead we force them to take the murderous route and we lose what could've been a useful asset. I don't think the good guys really thought this through, tsk tsk tsk.
Well, anyway, it's not my gameworld, I'm just briefly visiting it, so I get that Things Are The Way They Are.
I think the issue may have been that final decision was made out of the players hands.
To GLee, I would suggest that him walking towards the party might have sparked something that we could have responded to. Walker clearly had said from the start that he thought the man should be healed, Aislinn has called out... To me it just seems like this would have been a good opportunity for the party to decide to choose to do a non-lethal blow and just knock him unconscious and then figure out what is next, instead of killing him. We know he said he would fight to the death, but we could/would have made the decision to just leave him unconscious and let him wake up in chains later for questioning, if we had the choice. At least, I believe would have been the choice for Walker and Aislinn, but the combat ran on without our input at that point.
In terms of "when do you break off combat and wait for a response", I'd say personally that "the moment before you kill the helpless guy" might be a good one :)
But anyway, what's done is done I guess!
Ooh yes that's a very good point -- I do think the "killing blow" should be the player/PC's coup de gras, if only for the sake of a sense of agency and the ability to play that final moment of triumph/sorrow/regret/fury. It didn't feel very Walkery to just straight-up kill the guy without a final "dude are you really sure about this?" attempt, especially having expressed the desire to heal him, which indicates a sense of honor. All about choices, innit?
Hee, yes, that's a good defining line. Well put.Quote:
Originally posted by ping
Yes, this :)Quote:
Originally posted by choie