Middle Earth D&D Game: FA63 Setup Thread.

I don't care if we do a hard reboot or just work around this problem, either is fine with me. As for the goblin mess, Dugar has no clue what the limits are on a charm person. All he knows is it wont last that long. This means the goblin has allready gained knowlege of our party. Its size possible make up and direction. If we let it go and it ran into a band of orcs it could give us away. This would probably mean the death of us all. So while the druid was TKOed we sat around arguing. He took the gordian knot approach and just removed the problem. It was a strait forward answer as far as he was concerned.

Jim dont get me started on waterboarding and torture.

Just one note, I was never intended to suggest a hard reboot.

Any ideas on what next? As I said, heading back north is out for now.

[quote=glee]Looking back, I see the mentions of torture came from yourself!

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Sandy, "...At least two of the prisoners are unlikely to recover, we can asks them some questions in a exchange for a quick clean death perhaps. "

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Originally posted by "What Exit?":2sxnzm07

The held goblin answers Mascalin with a question, “What do I get if I tell you? You can’t scare me with your elven torture.”

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(PM from What Exit?) Dwarves can ethically torture orcs and still remain good.

You are right that killing runts will be contentious. :eek:

And you haven't explained whether our party should let Goblin informants go, or simply kill them.[/quote:2sxnzm07]

To save space, I'll interperse my comments in red

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Threats and rumors of torture are not the same as actual torture.

When Jack Bower threatens to kill a suspect's child in '24', that's torture to me.

Remember the lies Saruman told the Dunlanders about what the Rohirrim would do to them.

Saruman is not a role model for Good.

Goblins believe Elves and Dwarves will torture them, only reasonable as Goblins and orc will torture each other willingly.

This is one difference between Good and Evil. It's not just what your enemies believe, it's how you behave.

Unless you have seen a good player torture anything, it is only rumor and the rumor is indeed false. Though then we head into the realm of what is torture. Some would say exposing an orc to sunlight is torture and other would only call it a minor interrogation technique.

Some would say that endlessly wounding a regenerating creature was just good fun. Some would be Evil.

Tying Elven Rope onto Gollum was a torture to him, but the brave Hobbits had no other choice and to most creatures it would not have been a torture.

There's always a choice. It depends on your values.
Also I really don't see the point of saying "to most creatures it would not have been a torture". If I start killing your family to make you talk, it's not torture to the billion people in India.

Making me listen to Celine Dion is specifically a torture to me. (No, seriously, it makes me run babbling from the room or punch off the radio.)

I think this is a misuse of words and most unlike you. Are you suggesting you would prefer I kill a member of your family?

I need to see the context on the PM on the Dwarves. I don't recall it.

I've PM'd it to you.

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Originally posted by Whtwulf

As for the goblin mess, Dugar has no clue what the limits are on a charm person. All he knows is it wont last that long.

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Mellowbeorn has a rather better idea - two to four weeks, probably the latter, maybe longer if it's a particularly stupid goblin, and even then it has to successfully save versus magic or wait a similar length of time before it gets another save, and so on, and so on. It could stay charmed for months before the spell wore off. At worst for us it is over two weeks before we have anything to worry about and it's highly unlikely we're staying around that long even without worrying about the crebain sounding an alarm and a bunch of orcs coming to find out what's going on. All this Mellowbeorn knew and had taken into account (and Macsalin probably had a fair idea, if you'd listened to him). But of course Dugar had to think he knew better than the silly druid - once the silly druid was in no position to argue. :dub:

In too darned much of a hurry to stick the axe into a wounded unarmed prisoner, I'm thinking, and you'd better not make a habit of it or of second-guessing Mellowbeorn if you are counting on his goodwill.

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Originally posted by Malacandra

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Originally posted by Whtwulf

As for the goblin mess, Dugar has no clue what the limits are on a charm person. All he knows is it wont last that long.

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Mellowbeorn has a rather better idea - two to four weeks, probably the latter, maybe longer if it's a particularly stupid goblin, and even then it has to successfully save versus magic or wait a similar length of time before it gets another save, and so on, and so on. It could stay charmed for months before the spell wore off. At worst for us it is over two weeks before we have anything to worry about and it's highly unlikely we're staying around that long even without worrying about the crebain sounding an alarm and a bunch of orcs coming to find out what's going on. All this Mellowbeorn knew and had taken into account (and Macsalin probably had a fair idea, if you'd listened to him). But of course Dugar had to think he knew better than the silly druid - once the silly druid was in no position to argue. :dub:

In too darned much of a hurry to stick the axe into a wounded unarmed prisoner, I'm thinking, and you'd better not make a habit of it or of second-guessing Mellowbeorn if you are counting on his goodwill.

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Really?? I guess asking questions to a unresposive party member should have been the 1st thing i tried. Since the only one in the party that knew how long the charm person would last was TKOed and we were still in a dangerous spot leaving was the best option is his mind. The only sticking point was what to do with the goblin, since elves with their longer lifespan will often discuss things down to the smallest detail he eliminated the sticking point to get the ball rolling to get the party member to safety.

Now if your wondering if Dugar would just kill prisoners out of hand instead of turning them in to the local law the answer is, depends on if transporting those prisoners would outweigh the safety of his friends or others. If you notice Dugar never once said im sorry or even gave the orc another thought. His main concern was getting the party to safety and getting the druid healed.

Bahhh will get back to this later got to take off for now. :lol:

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Originally posted by Whtwulf

Really?? I guess asking questions to a unresposive party member should have been the 1st thing i tried.

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Watch it, chum. Ask Jim whether getting into a sarcasm contest with me is a good idea. I wasn't suggesting you should ask an unconscious person a damn thing - only that going with his last stated wish on the matter might be better sense and better manners than deciding you knew better than him.

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Originally posted by Whtwulf

Since the only one in the party that knew how long the charm person would last was TKOed and we were still in a dangerous spot leaving was the best option is his mind. The only sticking point was what to do with the goblin, since elves with their longer lifespan will often discuss things down to the smallest detail he eliminated the sticking point to get the ball rolling to get the party member to safety.

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Killing wounded prisoners because you're tired of listening to your friends arguing about them is the kind of thing we're meant to be fighting against. If your argument is some variation on "Well, it can't be evil if we're doing it", I'd stop digging now if I were you.

As I say, I intend to deal with this problem by not giving you any more charmed goblins to have to worry about. Kill as many of 'em as you like, but you'll have to catch them for yourself. No biggie.

OMG ok i would have killed this gobblin myself as i told the party i would long before it was even a topic of his life. 2nd as the brothers pointed out, the dwarf and myself were in the RIGHT in killing this gobblin, 3rd, you are the druid we are unsure of the duration of your spells so the dwarf took the RIGHT choice to kill this foul creature. Also you watch it James knows Z and myself very well, Z dont back down to threats he thrives on them. We were again in the RIGHT to kill him, and this was Aproved by the brothers of Rivendal, there law is the LAW here. This party is way to political correct for this game, protect gobblins lol ,cry over them, Z, James, Gordon, i love all of James games, but i have to leave this game, and gameing time James and myself have been playing D&D since 1977 ish.

Please don't make internet threats they really serve no purpose.

Once again the druid was not in an way shape or form to ask anything of. I don't remember reading anything about his last wishes to be to take care of his charmed goblin but hey maybe i am wrong.

For the dwarf killing the goblin, who was earlier in the day was trying to kill him, removed the argument about what to do with him. Was it a lawfull good deed? Of course not. Then again the dwarf is not lawfull good either. The goblin was a sticking point on getting an injured party member to safety. As it was the party was not going to be moving at a high rate of speed so any extra time would be a good thing.

I am not looking to have an internet fight. Its childish and reeks of stupidity. Now if you would like to say that your druid would not have done what the dwarf did fine i can agree with you. If you want to say the dwarf is wrong for it the question is are you arguing about YOUR OWN sense of honor and duty or your characters is the question. Now you may think the dwarf is being a bloodthirsty bastard. The dwarf was thinking of the state of the druid. See the difference?

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Originally posted by Whtwulf

As for the goblin mess, Dugar has no clue what the limits are on a charm person. All he knows is it wont last that long.

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Originally posted by Malacandra

Mellowbeorn has a rather better idea - two to four weeks, probably the latter, maybe longer if it's a particularly stupid goblin, and even then it has to successfully save versus magic or wait a similar length of time before it gets another save, and so on, and so on. It could stay charmed for months before the spell wore off. At worst for us it is over two weeks before we have anything to worry about and it's highly unlikely we're staying around that long even without worrying about the crebain sounding an alarm and a bunch of orcs coming to find out what's going on. All this Mellowbeorn knew and had taken into account (and Macsalin probably had a fair idea, if you'd listened to him). But of course Dugar had to think he knew better than the silly druid - once the silly druid was in no position to argue. :dub:

In too darned much of a hurry to stick the axe into a wounded unarmed prisoner, I'm thinking, and you'd better not make a habit of it or of second-guessing Mellowbeorn if you are counting on his goodwill.

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Originally posted by Whtwulf

Really?? I guess asking questions to a unresposive party member should have been the 1st thing i tried. Since the only one in the party that knew how long the charm person would last was TKOed and we were still in a dangerous spot leaving was the best option is his mind. The only sticking point was what to do with the goblin, since elves with their longer lifespan will often discuss things down to the smallest detail he eliminated the sticking point to get the ball rolling to get the party member to safety.

Now if your wondering if Dugar would just kill prisoners out of hand instead of turning them in to the local law the answer is, depends on if transporting those prisoners would outweigh the safety of his friends or others. If you notice Dugar never once said im sorry or even gave the orc another thought. His main concern was getting the party to safety and getting the druid healed.

Bahhh will get back to this later got to take off for now. :lol:

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But Dugar didn't ask anyone in the party how long Charm would last. (Macsalin knew.)
He didn't say "I'm worried about the Goblin telling others about us when the Charm wears off."

His actual words and actions were:
"Ok from where i stand it looks like figuring out what to do with this goblin, who would gladly rip of me beard if given a chance, is holding us up from getting our forest mage the help he needs. Well not any longer".
Dugar grabs up his dwarven axe and slays the orc.
"NOW lets get our friend the help he needs, i refuse to let a friend die for some stinking orc!!"

As I pointed out, we have an eleven day journey back. Dugar saves a few minutes of discussion by killing the Goblin.

Also our leader, Theogrim had already said:
"@ everyone: "I'm still not entirely comfortable with letting the prisoners go, but if we're reasonably sure that they will go directly home under this Charm, then that seems an acceptable compromise."
Is Dugar going to listen to Theogrim?

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Originally posted by Arduine

OMG ok i would have killed this gobblin myself as i told the party i would long before it was even a topic of his life. 2nd as the brothers pointed out, the dwarf and myself were in the RIGHT in killing this gobblin, 3rd, you are the druid we are unsure of the duration of your spells so the dwarf took the RIGHT choice to kill this foul creature. Also you watch it James knows Z and myself very well, Z dont back down to threats he thrives on them. We were again in the RIGHT to kill him, and this was Aproved by the brothers of Rivendal, there law is the LAW here. This party is way to political correct for this game, protect gobblins lol ,cry over them, Z, James, Gordon, i love all of James games, but i have to leave this game, and gameing time James and myself have been playing D&D since 1977 ish.

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1. So you too would have ignored Theogrim's ruling?

2. The brothers actually said (bolding mine)
"Little things, overall the sentiments of Elrohir and Elladan are with Celestir and Dugar. Don't try to rescue goblins, kill with as little trace as possible and move on. Goblins, even enchanted goblins can cause grief from ignorance and different mores. Goblins have little to no honor and the larger Orcs have none at all.
As to the mission, try to minimize risks. While the smaller orcs (goblins) can often be negotiated with, the Uruk-Hai cannot be trusted and are always dangerous. If you do get information from a goblin in exchange for its life, sending it to Gundabad is fine."
How does this make it RIGHT to kill the helpful goblin?

3. Nobody asked how long Charm would last. (Macsalin knew).

4. You mention 'political correctness' - I can't find that in the D+D Manuals. Could you give a page reference?

5. You mention James' games. I have had the pleasure of playing in 5 of his adventures on the Internet and in those we have often interviewed Goblin prisoners and then either released them (with their weapons), or got them a job (roadbuilding, under supervision).

6. Congratulations on having played since 1977 - it's a great game.
I have only been playing since 1979 myself, although I also have been teaching the game for 20 years at my school (4-8 hours a week). I have had the pleasure of reaching the UK Roleplaying Individual finals on the two times I entered, plus also winning 'best roleplaying team' with my mates. My school team reached the UK finals 3 times (out of 4 attempts) and won it one year.

P.S. I am very confident that Malacandra's comment about sarcasm simply meant that he is excellent with words (as shown for example by his bardic poetry and song in What Exits? other Internet game) and would be sarcastic back.

@Arduine: All those years of roleplaying, and you've neither learned the duration of a core 1st level spell, nor how to look it up in the Player's Handbook, nor how to spell "goblin"? I'm sorry you find it necessary to quit the campaign over something as trivial as this, but I'm mostly sorry for Jim's sake. I'm also sorry that you dismiss as "politically correct" the suggestion that unarmed prisoners shouldn't be tortured or killed in cold blood, but if you're not coming back than I guess we're not going to have to learn to respect each other's point of view on this.

@Whtwulf: The only "internet threat" I was making was a suggestion that you not be rude and sarcastic to me, otherwise I should only be rude and sarcastic back, and I have had a lot of practice. :lol: {And glee got this spot on :lol: } Apart from that, now we've had this little talk, supposing we move on? Mellowbeorn certainly isn't shedding any tears over the fate of one poor little goblin, especially after witnessing close-up what orcs with bows do to unarmed men. Just try to remember another time that when I say "After the prisoner has done thus-and-so, this is what I want done with him" I do actually know what I'm talking about - in this case, that he would be at least two weeks on his way before it occurred to him to have a Tom & Jerry "Jackass" moment, and any news he could bring about us would be well out of date.

In Jim's Straight Dope campaign we've had some spectacular successes through treating goblins as thinking creatures with aims of their own - most notably, persuading a hundred or more of the weaker ones to turn on their masters enabling us to win a huge battle and them to be allowed to head East out of Gondor to a colony of their own. I'm perfectly happy for us not to be a kind of team of travelling social workers acting as though all the enemy needed was a cup of tea and some therapy :lol: but there is occasionally some benefit to figuring out some other approach than "I'll kill it because I can."

@glee: Yes to all, but shall we move on now?

Meanwhile, suppose we head on up to Goblin Gate once we're all fully rested and I've had a few days to restock the goodberries? As I understand it there are still plenty of goblins up there who could do with a short introduction to the business end of Dugar's axe, and we should all be happier for it. It might help us to learn to work together as a team.

Hmmm so my dwarf FIGHTER should know the ins and outs of a 1st lvl MAGIC user spell? A cleric should know this as well? Sorry don't think so. For someone so preachy about roleplaying you must have missed the part of character knowlege vs real world knowlege. So while yes i can go and get all my 1st edition books out and look up every little spell out of the players handbook and every monster out of the MM that takes away from the game imo. Thats the hard thing about roleplaying is not using what YOU know vs what the character knows. While Dugar may be an excellent smith, odds are he does't not know about ultrasonic and radiation applications to determine flaws in the metal he is working with. He probably has done a lot of trial and error to figure things out. I know about the above use of testing to find flaws. Is there a little possible overlap in character knowlege vs mine, yes there is.

This whole situation would have been avoided if the druid was not in unresposive bear form. Since it was and as far as my CHARACTER knew nobody else had a clue what the hell was going on with regards to the charm person spell. The only other spell caster we had was the cleric and he did not know, so why should a inexperianced group of adventurers know either. So my character made a call. Like i said earlier maybe it was the wrong call for you or even your character. For my character it was second nature.

Playing games using armor and weapons is something i enjoy. Hell its what got me involved in the SCA to begin with. I have been wearing armor and fighting for over 20 years now. So i have a better idea on how to move in armor, make armor, make weapons, and use them than many people. I also know a little about making mead(more about drinking mead) clothing,drums ect. Also in the real world i actually swing an axe for a living, so i tend to like fighters with one as well when i play a fighter. Yeah i know its a character flaw but i can live with that.

So now that i too have established myself can we get on with the damn game and agree to disagree on what Dugar did. If not let me know that as well.

What your dwarf FIGHTER should and should not KNOW about is NOT the ISSUE. (Notice how all these CAPITALS make my argument so much more CONVINCING?). As to the cleric, he claimed to have charm person loaded so if you weren't prepared to believe Macsalin or accept that I knew what I was doing when I said we should tell the goblin to clear off back to his homeland, you could have asked the Friar. (Personally I was surprised to see charm on his spell list as it's not normally available to clerics, but what do I know? There's no reason why the DM can't have altered the spell selection as he sees fit.)

Now I've already indicated I'm willing to move on so shall we just do that or do you want to presume to lecture me some more about role-playing? The only reason I didn't suggest myself as party leader, despite a thoroughly successful ongoing campaign captained by me on the Dope, is that I don't see why a Beorning druid should know or care about military tactics. But IMO it would be entirely in character for a bard (who's part fighter anyway) to have studied battles both modern and ancient, which is why I'm happy to nominate Macsalin, and as I've mentioned already, as a player glee comes with credentials that are second to none.

I'll be talking to Arduine and Armande soon and will see if one or both are quitting.

I have to side with WhtWulf here, his decision was proper for his character with the Druid incapacitated. It is something the characters need to work on and get agreement on in the future.

I also think too many characters ignore decisions from Theogrim, be it the bugout he called for that led to the Druid's injury or Dugar slaying the Goblin.

Overlooked in all of this, is the last two orcs were very unlikely to survive the tunnels being collapsed. So at least Dugar's hastiness eliminated all witnesses and got the party on the road before the Crebain showed up.


Mocking Arduine's spelling is a bit much Malacandra. This was the specific reason he never joined the SDMB for that game. He is a poor speller and too many dopers are unforgiving in their mockery of spelling mistakes. It sounds like this will no longer be an issue though.

This whole thing reminds me of Gimli and Legolas entering Lothlorien. :lol:

Any chance we can drop this and insteadfigure out how to go forward?

I'll be talking to Arduine and Armande soon and will see if one or both are quitting.

I have to side with WhtWulf here, his decision was proper for his character with the Druid incapacitated. It is something the characters need to work on and get agreement on in the future.

I also think too many characters ignore decisions from Theogrim, be it the bugout he called for that led to the Druid's injury or Dugar slaying the Goblin.

Overlooked in all of this, is the last two orcs were very unlikely to survive the tunnels being collapsed. So at least Dugar's hastiness eliminated all witnesses and got the party on the road before the Crebain showed up.


Mocking Arduine's spelling is a bit much Malacandra. This was the specific reason he never joined the SDMB for that game. He is a poor speller and too many dopers are unforgiving in their mockery of spelling mistakes. It sounds like this will no longer be an issue though.

This whole thing reminds me of Gimli and Legolas entering Lothlorien. :lol:

Any chance we can drop this and instead figure out how to go forward?

Malacandra tell you what you just go ahead and continue with your mental masterbation and e-peen contests here. I am sure you know better than anyone else on what is going on. Everyone else has no clue and your just better than everyone else.

Yes i used capital letters mainly because its a lot easier for me to do so than to use bold type. So since my way of focusing on a word or two bothers you so much i guess its time for me to go as well.

Yes you win have a nice day.


Jim, sorry that this didn't work out. I have attempted to be reasonable. If i wanted to get in an internet pissing contest i could just go and check out some chat rooms on yahoo or something. I had hoped that i could play and in the meantime shoot the breeze with you and Mike since its been a few years. However having to read pompus statements showing off how much they know about a game that has been played for over 30 years is a bit much. Having had to establish my knowlege and ability as a roleplayer is silly to say the least. I can see why Mike was worried about playing a game of this type. I still find it amusing that people are often able to say things online that they would never dream of doing face to face. Well at least not to my face anyway. If this can be salvaged in some way let me know. If not i will still try to keep in touch, at least to bitch about or respective baseball and football teams.

Well, despite Jim asking for calm twice and despite Whtwulf doing his full share of the pissing and despite the DM saying he was in the right, I see we've got another grand exit speech from someone who figures he could totally kick my ass IRL (where I'm just as argumentative, btw).

Sorry Jim, I have as you know enjoyed the SDMB campaign immensely and I was prepared to do likewise here, and still am if you have enough players or we get any more volunteers. But I warned Whtwulf it was no use being rude or sarcastic to me, he ignored me, and guess what? He can't take back even a fraction of what he hands out. And again, I'm sorry for being shirty with Arduine but I felt I was being yelled at a sight more than I yelled back, so the same comment, really.

...And I tried, I really tried just a couple of posts back to say "Let's stop this and go and do something we can all enjoy with a clear conscience", but Whtwulf felt he had to come back for another go at it first. :dub:

Really you said hey lets just go on? Ohh yeah you did after posting condesending comments.

As for me being able to kick your ass IRL, who cares. I would much rather just go hit people in armor anyway. I get more out of it and don't lose my temper when i am in armor. When i get in street fights two things happen either my hands get hurt or my nose gets broken. Either are not fun anymore.

Scroll up to the top of the page where i started commenting about this whole mess. You quickly started in on me because you did not like how i played my character. You made assumptions on what my character knew.

It looks like this started because you assumed that my character could ask your druid in sleeping bear form questions, or should have asked him questions about his abilities before he was stuck that way. I guess you ask everyone at work about their typing skills, how fast they read and other tidbits on how they do their job. If thats the case well your far more informed than i am about that kind of thing. Since i pointed out what i thought was an pretty stupid point on your part you quickly got defensive and then felt the need to try to prove how superior you are. I guess your use to being a big fish in a small pond within your gaming circles, where everyone listens to you regardless of what they think. Problem is when that big fish gets moved elsewhere and assumes that everything is the same.

Do you want to stay here and argue or do you want to storm off? If you want to stay here and argue, do you want to argue about what I actually said or do you want to keep on making up both sides of the argument? You know, what with me not once having suggested you should have asked questions of an unconscious character?

Big fish, small pond - take a look in a mirror. You can't kick my ass across the width of the Atlantic - all we have here is words. I'm sorry if that frustrates you on account of your being a big scary street fighter who I wouldn't dare talk back to face to face, but if that's what you bring to the gaming table then I guess you're playing the wrong games.

You find my comments condescending? Have a quiet think about this, and decide if you really believe I'm doing it on purpose to piss you off, or if it's possible I'm finding yours grating on me just as much as mine do on you, and reacting accordingly.

I wish I had a whistle.

1) Malacandra, I know Whtwulf very well. unlike myself, he would be very scary in a real fight. He is not boasting and this is getting us nowhere. He is a good gamer and was playing his character well.

2) Whtwulf, Malacandra is a very good player and has probably added more to my Dope campaign than any other player. He is playing the best Bard I have ever ref'd with ease. This campaign effectively never got started. It also might now end. (My apologies to all the other fine players in my Dope game, but I think you will agree with my opinion without feeling slighted.)

3) Game experience: Good Lord, between us in this group we have at least 6 players that started in the 70s. Arduine and I started with the 3 Book box set in 1977. I think he actually start a year before I did. Our game experience is all very deep and massive. So lets not worry about it.

4) I apologize, I screwed this up. We needed more time in setup to determine how the player would interact and I should have had you all working together more than just the troll encounter to see abilities. I also underestimate the challenge of three non-messageboard players jumping in. I thought this game would give be a chance to get Whtwulf involved in one of my games again and I hoped he would enjoy it. I thought it was great Arduine and Armande would have a chance to play as they were interested when I talked about the Dope campaign but I knew Arduine would be screw with too much for spelling errors on the Dope if he tried. Believe it or not plenty of people are bad spellers, especially when typing in a hurry and yet are not dumb. I was also overjoyed to get OneCentStamp back into the ME game and to give RoOsh a chance to play. It was a great bonus to have Glee and Malacandra willing to play as the have been mainstays in the Tolkien campaign on the dope from the beginning and are well versed in the game already therefore and in Middle Earth. Malacandra in particular knows Middle Earth as well as I do and I think that is saying something.

5) So I have no idea where to go with this, I think I lost 3 players of the 7. I will say I have a bad taste in my mouth at the moment about the whole thing.

Jim

Jim thanks for trying to set this aright. If you want we can take Dugar out of the campaign and i can play something else.

And dude i have no desire to fight you. Told you i only fight in armor these days, less chance of going to jail :lol:

Heh. I more than half expected Jim to post "Rocks fall. Everyone dies", and he would be well within his rights, and I'm at least half to blame. One of these days I will get a hold of my temper.

Whtwulf, I apologise. No-one has PMed me to suggest this; I'm saying it on my own initiative because I feel it is warranted. I am not going to make any excuses for my bad behaviour. You may take it or leave it and I would certainly understand if you told me where I can shove my apology. This whole petty argument has got way out of hand, far more than I ever intended.

Edit: And if you intend to bid the campaign farewell, that's no more than I deserve, but if you do stay, carry on playing Dugar. One silly argument over one damn goblin is not a reason to retire a perfectly good character.

(out of edit window)

That goes for Arduine too. The cheapo about spelling was just childish of me. :smack

Accepted and thanks

Well... shall we go smack some bad guys then?

Wow, a rollercoaster day. Thanks to both of you for clearing this up.

I just want to call other two tonight and find out how we stand. I would like to give this a second start.


Does a short trip into Goblin Gate as Malacandra suggested sound good? It will be a short ride and a good reason to connect you with a Mage type. I can also throw in a few Dwarves as minor NPCs.

There is a large wealth of maps for Goblin Gate in this folder. This is the specific overland one. You'll see Rivendell to the lower left corner.

Sounds good to me i am still on vacation till saturday

Wow just got home from work, was going to post some big bitch slap, from what i was reading. was going to post all my credentials and play test stuff, but i will not respond to that, i never seen your mock of me as a speller, i truly dont care if i can spell correctly, i am a cancer surviver so far, and someone mocking me dont give a damn, i am like Z i can take care of myself, and as James did say he is scary, he can lift a huge piano up a flight of stairs nearly by himself, well i am still out of this game, i dont need drama, i joined to relax and be with friends since i was asked to play. I am very disapointed this turned out like this, i was haveing fun for awhile, guess i will just play in fridays game from now on James, wish you were still here Z, it was a blast.

Hey to be honest it was only an upright piano.

Hey if i ever win the lotto i can move but untill then i will keep playing fireman in Chicago. Something about running into burning buildings that is fun for me.............never said i was sane.

Sanity? One man's meat is another man's poison as far as that goes, I mean, I have a nephew whose idea of fun is jumping out of perfectly good aeroplanes.

Arduine, I certainly can't argue with your view of what matters and what doesn't. :cool:

Sane dude, i still remember leaveing James house late in the morning you driving us home and going what 80ish and you tell me you cant see, your just following the yellow lines, lol.

... 6 players who've been playing this game longer than I've been alive.
Yeah. No intimidation right there at all....
:D

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Originally posted by RoOsh

... 6 players who've been playing this game longer than I've been alive.
Yeah. No intimidation right there at all....
:D

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If it makes you feel any better, I've only been playing since 1982. :lol:

And until What Exit?'s campaign, I hadn't played 1st edition since about 1990.

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Originally posted by Arduine

Sane dude, i still remember leaveing James house late in the morning you driving us home and going what 80ish and you tell me you cant see, your just following the yellow lines, lol.

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Oh don't. I'd just suppressed the memory of when I was driving down to work (bad old days when I had to travel down Monday morning, home Friday evening), it was maybe 5am and the fog was like three yards off my nose, and I was thinking "It's OK, there won't be anyone else about at this time in the morning...". And you may guess what my chances would have been if there had been one sensible driver doing a sensible-driver speed on that road. :smack

Or the grimy evening when the screenwash had run out and I'm thinking "Should I stop and fill it up, or just carry on peering through the crud? Eh, don't want to be late...". By the time I did pull in, it was hard enough to navigate the forecourt without hitting anything, never mind the 70mph motorway traffic. :smack :smack

Why yes, yes I was quite old enough to know better.

Mike i am reformed i havent had my licence suspended for speeding in at least 6 years now. Then again i don't get tickets to often when i tell the cops i am a fireman. They clocked me at 135mph when i was otw back from NYC after 9/11 when i went to work on the pile. Pensy trooper told me have a nice day and the next trooper was about 80 miles from him.

But the jeep i own now wont do 120 so i have to make do with barely hitting triple digits. ;)

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

Quote:

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Originally posted by RoOsh

... 6 players who've been playing this game longer than I've been alive.
Yeah. No intimidation right there at all....
:D

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If it makes you feel any better, I've only been playing since 1982. :lol:

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Heh, Still playing longer than I've been alive. :D

Though I was 5 when you stopped playing apparently.

Since I am behind I will be answering these in order that i read them so please pardon me if it takes awhile for me to get to posts I need to answer. At this juncture I am not interested in trying again, I will state my reasons.

1. Due to IRL issues, this is trying to get life in order due to my job be outsourced and me possibly losing my job after 22 years.
2. Lack of a party leader, we as a group need someone to fill this needed void.
3. Role Playing nightmares. I do not object to role playing, as for that is what this is all about, however people with too many quirks, and oddities, just make it too much for me to deal with. Which leads me to reason #4
4. Enjoyability. If I can't enjoy it it is not worth my time and effort. Plain and simple.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Armande

Since I am behind I will be answering these in order that i read them so please pardon me if it takes awhile for me to get to posts I need to answer. At this juncture I am not interested in trying again, I will state my reasons.

1. Due to IRL issues, this is trying to get life in order due to my job be outsourced and me possibly losing my job after 22 years.
2. Lack of a party leader, we as a group need someone to fill this needed void.
3. Role Playing nightmares. I do not object to role playing, as for that is what this is all about, however people with too many quirks, and oddities, just make it too much for me to deal with. Which leads me to reason #4
4. Enjoyability. If I can't enjoy it it is not worth my time and effort. Plain and simple.

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Thanks for explaining clearly, and good luck with the job.
I'll make an offer to the group which hopefully covers your points (as well as others already raised).

Even though the group got off to a rocky start, there's still clear goodwill from all towards What Exit? (and rightly so :smile: ).
So I hope this helps...

1. I offer to take on the leadership (as Macsalin). Theogrim is a fine character, but he is too busy in real life.
2. There's interest in Goblin Gate, so let's go there. Based on a parallel What Exit? campaign, it will be packed full of exploration, tactics and combat.
3. We stamp out Evil, killing all Orcs, Trolls and Undead. If they are too powerful, we retreat and ask Rivendell for help.
4. Using the example of that parallel compaign by our DM, if we get a weedy Evil informant (e.g. a goblin) who genuinely helps us (maps, enemy location etc), we send it back to the Elves outside (who will put it to work in a chain gang). Evil opponents who won't help will be swiftly executed.
5. I understand we can get a few Dwarves to act as rearguard (and escort informants out). This means we can concentrate entirely on pressing forward.
6. Sadly our Knights presumably won't be able to use their horses and lances (and a decision will be needed on Little Bear).

Your reactions and comments are welcomed.

Quote:

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Originally posted by RoOsh

Heh, Still playing longer than I've been alive. :D

Though I was 5 when you stopped playing apparently.

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I never stopped playing, I just switched to 2nd, then 3rd edition. Jim and these other oldtimers are hardcore. :lol:

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Originally posted by glee

Your reactions and comments are welcomed.

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I'm fine with it and would look forward to playing.

Glee, this should work fine. A Bard is a good leader anyway and you will probably be the eldest person in the group as the only Elf left. Goblin Gate has been largely cleared and the Dwarves are busy securing it. You might even find yourselves working with Gwaelur, Bitur and/or Hraedsig at some point. (though not the whole time.) I think there will be a situation where the party will be horsed and looking for a faster way to move the Dwarf.


The party will be without a Cleric (Undead/Healing), Ranger and Hobbit. We were already missing a Mage type. WhtWulf is going to play a Healer of Estë. Both characters are simple enough to play and they will have diverse personalities and probably not like each other too much. The healer of course is a non-combatant except against Undead. The healer will not be in a class with Gilraen but that is no surprise.

CIAS may join the game and if he does will probably play either a Hobbit or a Mage. Perhaps the Hobbits will be a Ranger or at least an archer oriented fighter. The Mage will of course be useful. I hope to hear more on this soon.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

Quote:

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Originally posted by RoOsh

Heh, Still playing longer than I've been alive. :D

Though I was 5 when you stopped playing apparently.

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I never stopped playing, I just switched to 2nd, then 3rd edition. Jim and these other oldtimers are hardcore. :lol:

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More lazy, I know the 1st Ed well enough to rarely need to check the books though occasionally on spells there are mishaps. I played 2nd and even a little 3rd but I saw no improvements to justify spending more money or making the change. My 1st Ed/Middle-Earth/Home Grown Worlds worked better for me.

In character, Mellowbeorn thoroughly approves, since without Dugar's courage and fortitude it's likely we would all have gone down in Angmar, and some time helping Durin's Folk will be fair repayment. There may be trouble fitting the bear down some of the narrower tunnels but in the bigger ones I imagine LB will be useful to have around. :smile:

Out of character - yes, that seems to get rid of the arguing points and we can just go kick some righteous ass. :cool:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

CIAS may join the game and if he does will probably play either a Hobbit or a Mage. Perhaps the Hobbits will be a Ranger or at least an archer oriented fighter. The Mage will of course be useful. I hope to hear more on this soon.

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I already have a pair of hobbits to play, three would be just greedy. I could suggest transferring Rorimac or play a new mage.

If you don't get any new players interested in joining, either would be fine, although you will have to run me through your variant for spellcasting if you prefer the latter.

Quote:

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Originally posted by CatInASuit

Quote:

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Originally posted by What Exit?

CIAS may join the game and if he does will probably play either a Hobbit or a Mage. Perhaps the Hobbits will be a Ranger or at least an archer oriented fighter. The Mage will of course be useful. I hope to hear more on this soon.

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I already have a pair of hobbits to play, three would be just greedy. I could suggest transferring Rorimac or play a new mage.

If you don't get any new players interested in joining, either would be fine, although you will have to run me through your variant for spellcasting if you prefer the latter.

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We could port Rorimac over if you like the character, then we need a new Ranger of course on the Dope. (That sounds wrong) The Mage is not too tricky to play, especially at 3rd level. You memorize two 1st and one 2nd. As you are third level, you can cast any spell memorized up to 3 times, so if you wanted to you could use both 1st level spells for Sleep and then use your second for sleep. The spells are largely straight from 1st Ed and you won't have that many anyway.

Tougher choice is race. Straight Humans get a +1 Int at least as MUs. Elves have their various bonuses as Elves.

We are also missing a Ranger now if you would prefer that, though Rorimac does take care of that also.

DM, are the players / party at present like this?:

OneCentStamp ... Theogrim (Fighter)
WhtWulf ... Dugar (Fighter) + Cleric (Este)
Malacandra ... Mellowbeorn (Druid)
Glee ... Macsalin (Bard)
RoOosh ... Sabert (Paladin)
CatInASuit ... Rorimac (?) (Ranger)

Now if you don't mind players having two characters, I could play an MU as well. (I've played one up to 14th level before and my regular group have played two characters each for decades.)

Also having more characters, but the same number of players, would not slow the game down either.

If other players wanted two characters, I'm sure you could fit them all in!

Quote:

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Originally posted by glee

DM, are the players / party at present like this?:

OneCentStamp ... Theogrim (Fighter)
WhtWulf ... Dugar (Fighter) + Cleric (Este)
Malacandra ... Mellowbeorn (Druid)
Glee ... Macsalin (Bard)
RoOosh ... Sabert (Paladin)
CatInASuit ... Rorimac (?) (Ranger)

Now if you don't mind players having two characters, I could play an MU as well. (I've played one up to 14th level before and my regular group have played two characters each for decades.)

Also having more characters, but the same number of players, would not slow the game down either.

If other players wanted two characters, I'm sure you could fit them all in!

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Let's let CIAS decide first. Then fill in around that.

Great....
More Archers. :rolls eyes:
/out of character so I don't get in trouble :D

Actually, I normally like playing cowardly ranged players WAY more than playing in close fighters, so playing Sabert has been an interesting challenge- as I'm the LEAST likely person in a group to WANT to go towards a battle. That's why most of Sabert's comments are in jest, because they're usually applicable to MY behavior in other games (as Malacandra will find out in the Pirates game- there's a reason I'm the Pilot there and not a fighter :D)

Though, it's REALLY tough to stay in that 3rd person mode. It carries over to my normal posting style- when I'm on the Dope or in the great debates or playing MAfia, I keep wanting to refer to myself in the 3rd person or I'll delete an instance where I use the word My or I. -_-