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Why not stop posting there altogether, instead of "saving your best stuff" for here?Quote:
Originally posted by Oakminster
Honestly, if you "and others" are trying to support DoMeBo, and honestly think the SDMB is in a nosedive, why not move here 100%?
J
F'real.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if he had avoided the passive voice in the one single sentence in which he used it, it would still have been an inadequate non-apology, because it wasn't the use of the passive voice that made it inadequate.Quote:
Originally posted by McNutty
This sentence was not the one with the passive voice. :D See? It's not the passive voice that's the problem here.Quote:
And no, he wouldn't have to rewrite the sentence. All he has to say is, "I wasn't intending to alienate the SDMB community, but to the extent that I did, I deeply regret it."
Like I said several times already, I'm not defending his half-assed apology here. It's just that it's definitely not the passive voice that makes it shitty. It was just kind of a throwaway point because people were misusing grammatical terminology.
Apparently we don't teach the differences between active and passive voice. Because the sentences you specifically cited as problematic don't use the passive voice. "to the extent that this has occurred . . ." is in the active voice. See what I mean? It's not the passive voice that's the problem here. "Passive voice" is an actual, specific syntactic phenomenon. It doesn't just mean "wishy-washy writing".Quote:
Originally posted by iampunha
If by much better you mean it isn't all "Maybe some mistakes were made, and I deeply regret them. But wait, I'm going to make this place so much cooler!"Quote:
Originally posted by Q.E.D.
I'm not trying to be rude. I've just had my fill of Ed for ... ever.
Huh--interesting reaction from Ed for Skip's fuck-up.
For those not reading the drama: Tuckerfan uses the word "jerks" to describe all the powers that be at the SDMB-he doesn't restrict it to an individual. Skip invents the new rule "You can't attack a group that someone in the thread is a member of" (paraphrased)--which would be huge news to, say, Bricker...or Lib (Hey Lib--anyone used "fudies" or made fun of Christians in a thread you participated in? 'Cause it's against the rules.)--and then warns him. Then when Oakminister complains, Skip spins the complaint into it's own thread making it look like Oak started the thread. Finally, when everyone (really--100% of the posts) are quite justifiably pigpiling Skip over all these things, Ed comes in and says
and locks the thread.Quote:
...I think we all need to step back from the computer, play with the kids, take a long walk, clear our heads, give some thought to what's really important.
Thank you mommy.
Good fucking goddamn. Is it just me or is that incredibly dismissive and condescending?
:rolleyes:
eta--fixed nested parentheses and edited for clarity.
The fact that Skip is still a moderator pretty much destroys any possibility that they actually give a shit about how their customers are treated. They would have gotten rid of that guy years ago if they did.Quote:
Originally posted by Fenris
I suppose the "show, don't tell" principle applies here. After all, anyone can tell you they're sorry.
Wow, stole my thunder you did Jill. We see who rates on the Dope now. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Jill
I missed the Skip mistakes as Ed (wisely) closed the thread but he could not help adding some more dismissive snark on the closure. I was being honest in my thread though. I'm done complaining and kibitzing. I'll sit back and observe from a distance while hanging out mostly here and in the Game Room there.
Nah. Fundie is okay because our beliefs are a choice. See? Watch this...Quote:
Originally posted by Fenris
[...poof...]
Now I'm a godless atheist! Don't need no damn god.
[...poof...]
Now I'm a Muslim! Let me take this opportunity to denounce Al Qaeda.
[...poof...]
Now I'm a Jew! Oy vey!
[...poof...]
Now I'm a Christian again. Jesus is just all right by me.
He really does remind me of the guilty husband, iampunha. That same wheedling tone - trying to blame the victim for what happened.Quote:
Originally posted by iampunha
I also agree that he picked Jill for the same reason. He wasn't going to try that one of you guys, he chose her.
He reminds me more and more of my brother-in-law, who is appx. the same age if my info on Ed is correct.
Excalibre, here is the post where we talk about the passive sentence in question:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=558&sid=d906144df7cf9f6105b1f aa7a532164b#p10873
For the record, this is the sentence in question, which you and I have already agreed is in the passive voice:
"Communication has certainly been an issue and could stand to be improved."
Would you like me to quote you me, SmartAleq and Fenris bemoaning his use of the passive voice AND that we had a problem with it? Would you like me to quote you as saying that's the only sentence in the passive voice? It's all here, dude. (In fact, I had it all copied and pasted, and then my word document closed. I'm convinced Zotti's behind it somehow. Fuck him for it, too.)
Here's the thing:
We have all, all 650 or whatever many of us are here, agreed that the sentence in question is in the passive voice.
This pissed off some of us.
It did not piss off others of us.
I am not disputing that you didn't and don't give a shit if he uses the active, passive, subversive or locative voice because your primary concern is -- and rightfully so -- that the guy's a jackass and it doesn't matter if he uses the voice of Queen Bloody Elizabeth (Mary's much shorter-lived sister).
But it mattered to some of us, and it makes no sense for you to tell us that it doesn't matter when, to us, it does.
I think you're confusing me with McNutty. I don't recall -- though I'm happy for you to go back through the thread and show me otherwise -- alleging that any sentences were passive when they were not.Quote:
Because the sentences you specifically cited as problematic don't use the passive voice.
Or perhaps you took my "It was weak" comment here:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=558&start=50#p11271
as being synonymous with passive. If you did, don't :) Or if you got confused between me and McNutty -- who did, in the grand shuffle of things, pick up the argument and talk about a sentence that wasn't in the passive voice ("It wasn't my intention [blah blah blah I am a giant shit]").
So.
I do know what the passive voice is and how it differs from the active voice. Apparently not using the term when it didn't apply was insufficient:) At any rate, I hope this clears things up and we can go back to telling Ed, in his spectacular absence, to fuck off.
OK. I've no problem being told so by people with more experience with the issue. (Don't mean to seem curt, but ... is there anything else I ought to say?)Quote:
Originally posted by NinetyWt
It's 710 as of this posting.Quote:
Originally posted by iampunha
Damn, dude. I'm glad I didn't go with my mainstays for Random Number Guess (though as mainstays, I guess they're not random numbers):Quote:
Originally posted by Liberal
17
87
710 is my new number. And every time I use it, I'll think of a guy on the Internet I've never met.
(I should probably NOT tell this story at work ...)
The only thing anyone disagreed about was the use of the passive voice. Several posts complained about it, and I pointed out that it wasn't pervasive in his apology, and that his apology would have been inadequate even had he avoided the passive voice in the one sentence he used it in. You, in one of the novel-length posts you addressed to me, complained about that "weak" (but obviously not passive) sentence between complaints about his use of the passive voice. So I took it to be complaining about the passive voice. If that's not what you meant, your post is even more confusing.Quote:
Originally posted by iampunha
Honestly, I don't even know why you're continuing this. I just dropped into the thread to mention that the complaints about the "passive voice" were pretty much off-base -- given that almost all of it was active voice, and given my guess that, had he not used the passive voice in the one sentence where he used it, the "apology" would still have been seen as inadequate.
If your one single issue with Ed's "apology" is that he used the passive voice in one sentence within it, fine. That's kind of nutty in my opinion, but whatever. If your complaint is about the rest of the apology as well, then why are you so upset about what I said? The problem with that apology -- for everyone except, perhaps, you -- was not that he happened to use one instance of the passive voice. The problem was that his apology was vague and half-assed, and the fact that it was vague and half-assed does not hinge on that one instance of the passive voice.
It just sort of annoys me that people are framing their (legitimate) irritation with what Ed said in grammatical terms that are not really (at least for most of us) actually the crux of the issue. Surely you don't actually have a problem with my first post in the thread, in which I responded to several complaints that implied that Ed had used the passive voice pervasively -- all I did was point out that the one use of the passive voice was not really why the apology rankled, but rather that the apology was defective throughout, including all those active voice sentences.
No, no, nothing. I just wanted to add that bit, as someone who's heard their share of it. :)Quote:
Originally posted by iampunha
Good to know I can be so persuasive! :D I must only use these powers for good!Quote:
Originally posted by NinetyWt
I know what you mean though. A lot of recognizable dopers signed up right away. That's what really got the momentum coming over here.
It's nice that Ed apologized, I guess. Had he listened to us before he started his royal decrees, that would have kept me there. If he had rescinded when people started complaining, I would have given him the benefit of the doubt. But, he waited until hundreds of people left before considering that his decisions might not be the correct ones. Too, little too late.
Besides, I just got here. It's feeling like home.
Oh, and as far as the metal plate goes - they only think I don't know it's there. But, it's not metal its a super composite alien alloy that was installed when they abducted me and it shows up like skull tissue in an xray but they dont realize that I have reprogrammed it to block their transmissions and read their minds oh they're worried now...
Any chance of moving the D&D thread over here 'cause I really like it, but I don't want to go there anymore. Oh yeah, I'm selfish like that.Quote:
Originally posted by What Exit?
Also, Exy and pun can ya'll take the grammar debate elsewhere? Luv ya, but it's hurting my brain. ;)
Look, sorry. There's no actual point under debate (although I don't blame you for not wanting to wade through all those posts.) I can't even figure out what I said that upset him so much.Quote:
Originally posted by BooBoo
I already warned the players it might eventually move over, but I would close out the current adventure first. I'm guessing another month or two at least. Sorry about that. All but two active players are already here and I hope to convince the other two to follow the game if it comes to it.Quote:
Originally posted by BooBoo
OK, last post on Ed and shitty writing. (Here. No, really.)
What I meant was that it was weak. I showed how I felt it was weak. You can go back and look at the post again, I can try to explain again, or we can agree that Ed is a puppykicking sonofabitch.Quote:
Originally posted by Excalibre
I vote for option 3.
I framed (at least, if memory serves) my argument around two issues:Quote:
It just sort of annoys me that people are framing their (legitimate) irritation with what Ed said in grammatical terms that are not really (at least for most of us) actually the crux of the issue.
1) His use of language was garbage (including but oh so thoroughly not limited to passive voice and noun/verb phrase length)
2) He acts like he's coming down from on high every time he posts.
3) He's a jackass absent those two factors.
(Ed's special in that he can be a fuckhead on two points and have it translate to three.)
I agree with you that the bulk of Ed's apology attempt and apology success were not framed passively.Quote:
Surely you don't actually have a problem with my first post in the thread, in which I responded to several complaints that implied that Ed had used the passive voice pervasively -- all I did was point out that the one use of the passive voice was not really why the apology rankled, but rather that the apology was defective throughout, including all those active voice sentences.
(For the record, the only thing that upset me to any significant length was when you implied I didn't know my active from my passive. Since that seems to have faded into the mists, I'd be happy to keep grammar discussions to debate and answer forums, with the exception that anyone who tries to school me here gets shot down with my sniper rifle.)
Everybody's under a lot of stress right now. Ya'll settle it the old-fashioned way, go out in the yard and beat each other with your English Comp books until only one remains. :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by Excalibre
[quote=What Exit?]I already warned the players it might eventually move over, but I would close out the current adventure first. I'm guessing another month or two at least. Sorry about that. All but two active players are already here and I hope to convince the other two to follow the game if it comes to it.[/quote:udx9cyw9]Quote:
Originally posted by BooBoo
That's cool, I just really enjoy the adventure and will miss reading it daily. Don't be sorry on my account, I'm just selfishly stomping my foot and saying "bring it to me 'cause I wants it". Seriously, that is the one thread I will really miss...you guys are awesome.
[/hijack]
I'm kind of surprised that Ed hasn't tried to trot out a post from "Cecil Adams". You know, voice from "on high" validating all the shit moves that have been done? Maybe Ed actually realizes that most everyone already knows about this little conceit of his.
He probably doesn't want the ensuing wave of "sock puppet" screams.
Yes, RobuSensei, there is a Cecil Adams. He exists as certainly as truth and snark and the fight against ignorance exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Cecil Adams. It would be as dreary as if there were no RobuSenseis.Quote:
Originally posted by RobuSensei
Amusing on the one hand, but since it takes longtime posters telling him they're leaving because of him for him to even attempt to look sincerely sorry for fundamentally changing The Pit and preventing us from Pitting mods (not to mention doing these things spontaneously), why would he care if people said "Hey, no fair bringing out Cecil: Everyone knows you're him."?Quote:
Originally posted by Liberal
Hell, I'd argue the only reason he hasn't made a sock for himself and promoted it to mod just so there'd be someone sucking his cock in agreement and not named Marley or SkipMagic ...
Nevermind.
God, what if all his admins are his own socks. Wouldn't that be a hoot!
Maybe he forgot he was logged in as Zotti and not Skippy when he closed that ATMB thread.Quote:
Originally posted by Liberal
Does anyone besides me remember the Dope thread where Guin had found tghe personal ad of some nutjob who had like a 37 page list of characteristics his ideal mate was to have? Because Ed is starting to sound more and more like that guy.
Well, there is one nice thing about the Second Official Apology: he admits to his motivation for that idiotic Rule Two, which was (as I was convinced) to protect his poor widdle Mods from abuse. (Anyone think Protectee Numero Uno was Skippy? Let's see a show of hands. Dammit, guys, don't raise both hands!)
An interesting sidelight to Ed's cunt fixation: to illustrate the weirdness of Rule Two I twice, for illustrative purposes, pointed out that in his world it was perfectly acceptable to say (may Og forgive me for uttering this calumny a third time), "Mother Teresa is a cunt!", but utterly unacceptable to hurl that insult at, say, a passing troll. Welcome to the world of Unintended Consequences, Ed.
'Twould be interesting to know what is prompting him to change his tune. The fact that a third (or more) of his active membership has signed on with alternative boards that effectivly did not exist a week ago? The fact that those boards appear to be flourishing? Has the hit count at SDMB dropped significantly is the past few days? Has he been lurking here and at Giraffe and finally grasped the doo-doo in which deep he is? [Hedley Lamar]Why am I asking you?[/HL]
ISTR that I could not see this subforum when I was not logged in. But I don't know if that recollection is correct. If it is, then Ed would be a Member. :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by BJMoose
Here is a histogram of Straight Dope traffic. Click on the Max tab to see the trend more clearly.
This doesn't address your main point, I realize, but FWIW, I believe old threads have all been restored (although not necessarily indexed for searching).Quote:
Originally posted by Zenster
The Ultimate Straight Dope Art Thread
Cool thread, BTW.
Was that the guy who had specifications on his mate's public hair length and breadth and what kind of panties she could wear, and when?Quote:
Originally posted by Tuckerfan
Oh, and also, when I am not logged in and I load Domebo, I cannot see the other board subforum, but when the system logs me out (what fun!) and I am in the subforum, I can see it. I can even read it.
If puppykicking sonofabitch is not registered here, though, I doubt this will be a problem for him.
Almost fell out of my chair raising both feet, actually.Quote:
Originally posted by BJMoose
Good thing is, I regained my balance in time to get a good idea for what the birthing position feels like.
Bad thing is, I am a man, so this knowledge is almost worse than useless.
And that she had to ask permission to tell him she loved him. Yup.Quote:
Originally posted by iampunha
Yup. (Probably not safe for work.)Quote:
Originally posted by Tuckerfan
http://www.ck.cx/archive/811/
Vomit.
A work of art like that can't go unremarked: it's stunning. How did a master of smilies such as yourself come to be banned from the Dope? (I hope you don't mind me asking).Quote:
Originally posted by Zenster
Psst. Guess whoQuote:
Originally posted by Johnny
So much for Cecil being the big draw! Seems there is not a lot in it though.Quote:
Where people go on Straightdope.com:
* boards.straightdope.com - 51.0%
* straightdope.com - 49.0%
Totally, +1. As another woman who's heard the chapter, verse and footnotes of this particular dynamic I can absolutely attest that he is behaving like a fist swingin' hubby calling from jail to get the charges dropped. It's making me see red, in fact, every time I read more of his weaselly, snivelling non-apologies. The fact that he's not actually taken any action to undo his mess is telling and I don't think we're ever going to see a substantive change to his position, let alone to the rules or moderating team of the SDMB. What a cunt.Quote:
Originally posted by Ninety Wt
Oh, and as for telling us all to go out and play and stop bothering the grownups and making a mess in the house? FUCK YOU ED! Not in the mood for coming up with anything creative, sorry... :evil:
You selling porn? No? Well, forget making any money on the internet, guy. Oh, you got a column where people ask you questions and you give a smart-ass answer? Here, let me show you a million blogs where other people do the same shit for free. Ed's living in the past and I don't have the heart to tell him.
I think it is 87 kinds of precious that he thinks it's worse to say to you -- for example:Quote:
Originally posted by SmartAleq
"You fucking cunt."
Than
"I have never met such a cretinous mass of slimy waste of oxygen than you. You have reinvented disgust and put it on display like so much bilious garbage, you cur of hitherto-undiscovered levels. I'd invent another Internet just to have one you weren't on.
Your mother should have aborted you. Her mother should have aborted her. And HER mother should have had her tubes tied. So great is your offense against not just humanity but carbon-based life forms.
When history books are written, they will note that Hitler was your understudy, you singular blight on matter."
Yeah. Creativity, eh?
Way better than calling you a cunt. And unless I've misread the new Pit rules, the above exercise would be allowed there.
(Unless it was directed at Skippy, because we can't call him anything these days. Mommy will get mad, after all.)
Mommy's always mad, pun. It's our fault she has to hit us, you know.
Well, it does hurt her more than it hurts us, after all.Quote:
Originally posted by BooBoo
I just wish we didn't have to wear long sleeves all the time.
To be fair, the people who visit the boards daily tend to load a LOT of pages, whereas readers visiting the columns will likely be loading only a page or two. The fact that it's even close indicates that there are a lot more people reading the columns who never read the boards.Quote:
Originally posted by ivan astikov
We're fixin' to find out about that point, my friend.Quote:
Originally posted by iampunha
In that case, it's safe to assume that he's following this and other discussions. There's no way he can't know -- really know -- how madly he messed up, and how much he's alienated long-time contributing posters. So why hasn't he rescinded his silly rules?Quote:
Originally posted by BooBoo
I remember a time when people were 'pitted' in GD. Once that was prohibited, it seems that SDMB became less lively. Now, I agree that GD should not be The Pit; but when someone posts something truly idiotic there, I don't see anything wrong (in the circumstance) of calling him a freakin' idiot. But given that there was a Pit, the restriction was not unreasonable. To censor certain words and phrases, or not certain words but certain usages of them, in a forum specifically set up to allow people to 'flame away' is bone-headed.
Ed's apologies ring hollow. But I know how difficult it can be to admit a mistake. Ed's second apology sounds a bit like someone who knows he's made a mistake, knows he's wrong, and is at least trying to be sincere. But the argument having progressed so far, it's not enough. He needs to unequivocally fall on his sword. And he needs to reverse the rule changes. Without that, he does sound like the battering husband.
As for the Mods, I personally have not had any run-ins. I have, though, disagreed with several of their decisions even if I didn't call them out on them. Should some of them be sacked? Yes. Should the Diaspora make that a prerequisite for returning? Not in my opinion; but then, I'm still posting there. I think that a compromise solution would be that certain Mods would be allowed to keep their positions, even if they don't deserve to, and:
- Ed must offer an unequivocal apology without trying to frame himself in a good light. Take the sword out of the scabbard![/*:m:2fbtg91e]
- Mods must be Pittable;[/*:m:2fbtg91e]
- The language restrictions must be lifted;[/*:m:2fbtg91e]
- Members must be given the respect and consideration due to them as the ones who are providing content and value to the SDMB.[/*:m:2fbtg91e]
Even if all of that happens, the damage is in many cases irreparable. Some posters will not return. The rest of us? I'm posting here now, and I'm still posting there. But I usually don't feel the need to repeat myself in multiple places. Whatever my posting frequency was over there, it will go down because I'm posting here.
Exactly, pun! Never mind that NOBODY, outside of a coupla butthurt admin/mod cunts ever asked for or expected Sir Ed the Overachiever to fight their battles for them or to protect them from the lumps they had coming--oh no, he has to protect us all in spite of ourselves and dress it up in "oh, but I'm just protecting the frail little girl things from the horrible, evil c-word that makes them all break down and cry, poor things, they're such children." I've been called a cunt by way more than one person in my life and I don't expect I've heard it for the last time, but I can flatly state that it's never bothered me nearly as much to be CALLED a cunt as it does to have some misguided pansy use me as an excuse to ramrod through a rule because HE'S uncomfortable. Adding in the "no sexual insults" rule just makes it more glaringly obvious that the real problem is that Ed appointed himself hall monitor in a tough school when he's still just a chess club nerd wearing a meat suit. HE can't cut it in the Pit so rather than bow out and let someone thickskinned mod the place he waves his banstick around and demands that everybody ELSE change THEIR community standards to suit him.
Taking the shortcut words like "cunt" off the table merely insures a greater level of really accurately targeted invective--if I can't just come out and say something outright and have to think my way around a restriction I can guarantee it'll piss me off enough to ensure that what I finally come up with is gonna be weapons grade filth and invective that obeys the letter of the law while nevertheless assraping the spirit thereof unto near death. Too bad Ed's just too plain stoopid to figure this out on his own and too fucking stiff necked to listen to others who know what the hell they're talking about when they tell him "Dude, back AWAY from the minefield, srsly!"