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I had not thought about it before, but I kinda like the idea of Graham being a qualified pilot, given his grizzled veteran status - like he might know a few tricky combat and evasive maneuvers, but otherwise is pretty bad about all the basics, delivers a pretty jerky ride, rough routine landings, etc...
Would they not cover emergency procedures and basic piloting skills in the Academy? Not that it would make everybody a crack pilot and proficient dogfighter, but I figure they would at least be familiar with the controls.
Yes, that's an odd choice, just a plain panel of what looks like flat buttons and a long-range scanner. In fairness, a look at some of the screenshots from "The Gallileo Seven" seems to back his design up. But the helm/nav combo platter would surely be more complex. And I bet any sane pilot would turn off the ambient sounds if they're anything like the ones that designer chose! No shade to the guy, he did an awesome job. But those noises reminded me of something from Lost In Space more than TOS.Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
As for that storage niche, it's odd: In some shots the area looks about two inches deep, judging from those tanks at the very back.
https://www.dangermouse.net/blog/ima...lileoSeven.jpg
And yet look at all the space that suddenly appears when half the shuttle crew fit in there!
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d1/cb/34/d...454730be80.jpg
Hmm. Well, Nia certainly experienced his combat/evasive maneuvers, but if the rest is true, sounds like Marala did my girl a favor. :devil:Quote:
Originally posted by general_urko
(You're not gonna feed me a line like that and expect me to let it lie there!)
Good point and I agree. I think everyone would likely be required to take a course with some Helm time, if only in a sim. Though I'd imagine many trainees like Graham would have taken more hours and learned some specialized skills.Quote:
Originally posted by stolz
That's fine. We'll have Graham as a qualified shuttle pilot as well, then, although (and perhaps this goes without saying) not nearly as skilled as Onn.
I'm gonna have to disagree about everyone in Starfleet being trained to fly shuttles. Shuttlecraft are the functional equivalent of U.S. Navy helicopters today, and the vast majority of naval personnel just aren't trained to fly them. Moreover, a shuttle, with two different drive systems and both space and atmospheric flight capabilities, would be significantly more difficult to fly than a helicopter, even allowing for ultra-advanced computer systems to aid the pilot, I suspect.
In "The Galileo Seven," as I recall, there was no mention of anyone aboard other than Latimer and Spock being trained pilots (maybe Scotty, too, but he's one of a kind anyway, as we all know). I don't remember it ever being said in any TOS episode that everybody in the Fleet was rated to fly shuttles, even in an emergency.
Huh, well, you're the boss and way more knowledgeable about this stuff! I'm pretty bad at TOS-era specifics or anything that's not easily found in Memory Alpha. :)
I was't really thinking of being full-on shuttle pilots... but able to plot (or at least follow) a basic course, hit the "brakes," land, that kind of thing. At least if I were in charge, I'd require every cadet to take a few hours to learn at least the most rudimentary knowledge of all departments' major operations: helm, warp drives, phaser/defense, stellar cartography, medicine (esp. emergency training), communications... all that jazz.
While I'm at it, I'd also require everyone to choose both their primary course track and at least one minor or whatever you'd call a secondary specialty where they'd be of some decent use in a pinch.
But no one's asking me to be Dean of Starfleet Academy, alas! :)
Back in my public sector days I had a colleague who was a vet from a Vietnam helicopter unit. His favorite joke was:Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
Q: "What's the difference between an plane and a helicopter?"
A: "Planes are designed to fly."
"There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are very few old, bold pilots." - Anon.
"Forget flying, I get the heebie-jeebies just driving past LaGuardia airport." -- me
A doormat I once saw: "A pilot and a normal person live here."
First, I wish everyone who celebrates it a very happy Easter! (And Passover, and Ramadan, or just a great Sunday!)
Next... I just spotted this video comparing TNG to DIS in just a pair of instances.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnlxugk3Qb0
My response is: WT actual F?
Does anyone watch Discovery? I've never seen it, and when I saw this compilation, I assumed the non-TNG scenes were from SNL. Like, a "What if Star Trek was a sitcom?" sort of thing. A captain who looks absurdly underage (is she even 25?!) sniping at an underling (is that Paul Giamatti slumming? oh wait no, that's H. Jon Benjamin, duh) who actually answers back, resulting in typical rapid-fire sub-par Sorkinesque "banter"? Death by frickin' tribbles? A commander waving away her officer's death with "He was an idiot?!!!" It had to be a joke!
But this is apparently real!!! Okay, apparently I'm the idiot for believing the title of a video and the comments. So it's a short story sort of thing. Still, these clips are utterly bizarre. Who thought any of the above was right for Trek? Unless this is intended as a one-off "alt universe" deal.
Dang I miss TNG and DS9. 21st-century Trek is so depressingly banal.
Speaking of writing, I came across this in my research--a writers' guide to Star Trek from the TOS-era, which may not be legit but the content does seem believable. (I'm probably really late to this, but just in case someone else hasn't seen it, I wanted to share the fun!)
I haven't watched any of Discovery, in part because of what I've heard from other ST fans who've tried it. Certainly that wasn't a very Picardesque way to handle that crewman. Someday I'll get around to Discovery and Picard, I hope; in the meantime, I usually enjoy the animated Lower Decks, and The Orville also has its moments.
Thanks for the link to the TOS writers' guide, too. I'd read it before and it's quite interesting. It's extensively quoted in this book, which is definitely required reading for any Trekker: https://www.amazon.com/Making-Star-T.../dp/0345340191
Hey EH, this may be random, but is Malej's name a slight anagrammic homage to Majel Roddenberry? Probably not, as I know it's a real name, but I remember you used to include those fun themed Easter eggs in the missions via the names of NPCs, locations and/or ships. Of course we always sucked at spotting them, hee, but still...
(Now if you'd said Malej's voice sounded slightly familiar, I'd know it was a reference!)
No, it's a real Albanian name that I came across awhile back and added to my list of non-Anglo-Saxon names. Hadn't thought of the Majel angle (she was a native Ohioan, too, as it happens), but I like it. Thanks!
For fans of a certain Starfleet shuttlecraft namesake: https://www.creationsandcollections.com/products/us912
Ha! Maybe Nia can get one and put it on the dashboard, like one of those hula girl or noddy dog figures.
Shiny!
Did anyone spot the ST in-joke in a recent post of mine in the game thread...?
Hmmm. Just read back, and the only thing I could pick up seems like a longshot, but... is it the connection between the Wellington and Ro's court-martial, which ended with her in this very stockade about a century hence? That's a pretty deep cut if so, and I'm impressed. No way would I have picked that up without a quick Memory Alpha check!
Speaking of in-jokes, I just remembered you used to include some literary or historic-based names of NPCs, settings or ships in each mission. I don't remember if you had any in the last two missions. Did you include some only for we dunces to completely miss the references as usual?
Good catch, SidGal! Yes, the prison's doctor served on the USS Wellington; Ens. Ro will serve on another ship of the same name before being court-martialed, convicted and sentenced to Jaros II in the ST:TNG era many years later.
As to the literary-based names of characters from the two most recent missions, see posts 4672 and 5147 above. I'll post the names from this mission when it's complete.
"Bizhi is retrieving his gear when Nia draws him aside. He meant to talk to her soon, especially after Dr. Villa's message, but was envisioning a consultation back in the Yorktown's Sickbay, or at least someplace private. Most habitats he is familiar with have at least minimum surveillance for dangerous air leaks, radiation, fire, explosions, etc., and the Jaros II stockade is surely no exception, but the visible and invisible sensor nodes here strongly suggest that their conversation is being recorded by the station's computer, and who knows how much interest they have aroused?"
Nice, stolz... An expression of awareness of doctor-patient confidentiality, seems super in character.
Oops chief EH, we cross-posted. Or I should say, when you posted, I was editing my Nia text slightly to better describe what Nia's asking for from Graham (and now Rangin). Not sure if that changes anything but I thought I'd spread the activity around a bit by getting Rangin involved. :)
No worries, thanks, SidGal. I incorporated some of what you had posted.
Here's to the remarkable Nichelle Nichols, who inspired so many women (and Black women in particular) to dream of the stars and imagine a future where we could explore them ourselves.
For anyone who didn't see President Biden's warm words about Nichols:
I like that in an unconscious, unintentional coincidence, the characters of Kylah and Nia--a Communications officer and a Black woman, respectively--each kinda represent a measure of Uhura's influence as they serve on the Yorktown. Maybe someday they'll live up to her example.Quote:
Originally posted by President Biden
(Nia more likely than Kylah, but who knows.)
I did not know that!Quote:
Originally posted by choie
She was a class act; I only wish Uhura had taken the big chair on ST:TOS at least once. Whoopi Goldberg and astronaut Mae Jemison, both of whom would go on to appear on ST:TNG, say she inspired them. Rest in peace, Nichelle, and thanks for all your good works.
Hi -we're doing some vacation travel (feels weird, gotta say...). I should be reliably back online in a day or two.
Welcome back, general! It has been a long time since vacation traveling last felt casual and normal.
Can I just say, Nia is having a really, really crappy week.
Edited to add: Funny coincidence--before my last post I tried to do a little research on WTF someone with actual technical knowledge would do in a shuttle situation like this. (It's tough playing an expert when you yourself are barely sentient in the topic!) The only result I found was in the text of one of the TOS books, Firestorm. It wasn't super helpful, but while scrolling I saw that the plot of the book revolves around Elas, the Dohlman, and a Regent who's made overtures to the Klingons. Since I've read a grand total of 0 Trek books... well, I lie, I did read one TNG novel ages ago... it just struck me as wildly coincidental that this one was based on the sole episode related to Elas. Also, there's a plot point where Uhura must pretend to be the Dohlman of the ship. As EH said, it would've been nice to see Nichols get a juicy role like that!
(Interestingly the book implies that there are multiple "Dohlmen," as the characters call them. Why a female-led society would pluralize "Dohlman" in such a manner--as it implies that the word means "Dohl-man"--is best left to wiser people than I.)
Ah! Never heard of Firestorm. Thanks.
Here are some other ST reading suggestions for SidGal and anyone else who's interested:
Check out Peter David's TNG-era novels Q-in-Law and Imzadi (I’d suggest you avoid Imzadi II, which was a very inferior followup IMHO). Diane Duane’s Dark Mirror, another TNG tale, is also excellent, as is her Doctor’s Orders, which has some wonderful interplay between McCoy and Spock when the good doctor is temporarily left in command of the Enterprise. It has one of the more intriguing portrayals I've ever read of a genuinely alien race, too.
I’d also highly recommend Star Trek: The New Voyages, ed. by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath, which has some outstanding fan-written TOS short stories, esp. “The Enchanted Pool,” “The Face on the Barroom Floor” and “Mind-Sifter.” Very good stuff.
Alan Dean Foster's Star Trek Log Eight covers the ST:TAS episode "The Eye of the Beholder," which is OK, but then expands upon it with a terrific follow-on tale.
None of these has any significant scenes set on a shuttlecraft, though, as I recall.
PM me with any questions about shuttle procedure, if you wish.
Ding ding ding ding! You've landed on the one novel I read, Imzadi. (I was a big Riker/Troi fan.) It seems to be one of the most-often praised Trek books over the years.
I remember when the "call" for stories for New Voyages was announced, but never read the resulting anthology--I really should, thanks for recommending it and reminding me. I'd also be very interested in the ADF novel.
Ha, that reminds me... here's a story for the oldies out there (which might be all of us "of a certain age"): I remember my mom picking me up from school one day and surprising with a copy of ADF's Splinter in the Mind's Eye, which I think was the first original Star Wars novel. Being young and ignorant, I assumed that this was obviously going to be the basis for the planned sequel. I was disappointed that it wasn't, I think because I had liked the prominent Leia arc. But of course the actual sequel more than exceeded expectations. :)
Also my mom was very cool.
I think I submitted four stories to the various New Voyages anthologies, as it happens, but never got one picked.
I remember Splinter very well. It was indeed the first SW novel, published after the first movie and before Empire came out. I read it then, avidly, and re-read it again a couple of years ago. Although obviously no longer canon (the Luke-Leia romance angle is pretty skeevy now, given what we later learned), it's still a good read. Consider it an alternative-universe SW story....
Well now we all want to read those stories, bub.
I can't even fathom how many submissions they must have received--it was (IIRC) unprecedented for what was essentially fanfiction to be so accepted and even spotlighted by the actual IP. But Trek was also unique in being (probably) the only show that allowed spec scripts, too, so they were pioneers in that respect.
Oh lord I forgot that one of the aspects I liked in Splinter was Luke/Leia! My little heart broke when it was clear they were aiming for Han/Leia. But as you say, canon relationshipwise, Luke and Leia was the love that was most definitely never meant to be. Outside of creepy fanfiction, anyway, where there's no such thing as a pairing that's off-limits.
Agreed. And speaking of which (NSFW, especially in the Empire): https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/15066-rule-34
OMG I got Splinter of the Mind's Eye from an older cousin when I was a kid and I read it like twenty times!
I still have my very dog-eared copy with the cool cover art by Ralph McQuarrie.
Hoping to avoid Nia sounding as ignorant as her player: Would having a nacelle on just one side of the shuttle/ship have any impact on navigation or, um, balance, for lack of a better word? I'm picturing a canoe being steered with one oar being stuck going in circles.
I know space physics (and fictional space physics at that) behave nothing like a boat on water would on a planet w/gravity and friction etc. But I'm nagged by the thought that all these vessels--aside from post-TOS ships like the Defiant--seem to have two nacelles on either side, so maybe placement matters? Or is it just the designers' love for symmetry and it doesn't matter where the things were placed as long as there are two? (For extra power and--as is the case now--for backup?)
While I'm here, do I assume that Nia does not know what Graham just saw about the torpedo?
God I'm a nerd. And the worst kind--one who doesn't know much!
Woohoo, it's another "Lt. Collins vaguely remembers a reference to the Chorell but darned if she can recall where/why" situation! :DQuote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
(Now that's a Codex Aelyrr flashback!)
HMMMM I spy, with my little eye, something added to this post that wasn't there when I originally saw it. :smug: Changes things a tad.Quote:
Originally posted by Elendil's Heir
Bloody hell, I did my best to fake it but now I have to watch that dang Galileo Seven episode, don't I? FINE. Another $1.99 down the Amazon Prime Video drain. :RAEG:Quote:
Onn has pulled back the carpeting and gotten the deck access panel open. What would she like to do now?
Edited to add: Whoa, this is my first viewing of a Remastered TOS episode. What a huge difference! It's a bit jarring going from the little goofy clicking switches and plastic colored buttons to this slick CGI shuttlecraft smoothly levitating before gliding its way out of the shuttlebay.
Starfleet vessels of all sizes almost always have pairs of nacelles, but there have been exceptions (such as the upgraded USS Enterprise-D that appeared in TNG "All Good Things...."). A shuttle can move at warp speed with just a single nacelle, but not as fast as with the two nacelles working in harmony.
I did add to that post about Graham and the torpedo, but no one had posted after it or, if you will, in reliance on it, so I thought, no harm, no foul.
PM me if you want to discuss the deck access panel and what Onn can do with it.
Oh definitely no harm or foul--I just found the addition illuminating. :)
Thank you for the info re: the nacelles! I forgot that (wonderful) series finale and all the different parallel Enterprises. Gosh I love TNG.
Far as I can make out via the episode and script, Scotty used that panel to check the "input valves" and "auxiliary lines" and was bemoaning the lack of fuel, so I think I sussed it out? I probably will need a tech check soon though. We're several miles above my scientific pay grade.
As an aside, holy cow was Spock annoying in that first season! Or maybe it's just that episode? Every other line included "logic" or "logical." We get it, pointy-ears, you're half Vulcan and "logic" is your thang. STFU about it already. I know TOS writers weren't known for much subtlety, and in this early episode they were probably still getting a feel for the characters, but even allowing for first-season adjustments, this script had Spock getting on my last nerve. I don't remember Spock being so one-note, so I do hope this was a one-off. I wouldn't have blamed Boma if he'd decided to frag Spock to save the extra 150 lbs for which Spock was so readily willing to sacrifice one of his crewman.
(And worse, none of these geniuses seemed to have thought about getting rid of the chairs to help solve the weight problem. The Yorktown crew totally would have! Hmph! :cool: )
But new question: The Tesla's starboard nacelle was said to have been near a warp core breach and so it "scrammed" to avoid destroying the shuttle; the port nacelle was safe. I was assuming "scrammed" meant "detached and got the hell out of Dodge," which seemed a rather noble and thoughtful thing for a nacelle to do. But it looks like the starboard nacelle is actually still intact (except for the outside), so I think my assumption was based on the casual use of "scram." What does it mean in tech or naval parlance?
A scram or trip is an emergency shutdown, but that would not by itself blow the equipment out into space.
:smack: Ah thank you! Again my ignorance knows no bounds. Combined with that loud ripping noise we heard earlier, my misunderstanding fed my false assumption about the implied noble sacrifice on the part of the starboard nacelle. Well at least the Tesla isn't that junked, which is good news. Thanks, stolz!
Yes, thanks, stolz. For the term in its present-day usage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scram
Both nacelles are still attached to the shuttle; the starboard one, however, is badly damaged and currently unrepairable.
I'm about to go out of town for almost a week; let's pause the game until Sept. 1. Thanks.
Oh no, a sudden hiatus! (At least Graham got the torpedo away from the shuttle before we had to stop, whew. That would've been a cliffhanger!)
Hope you're going somewhere for enjoyment of some kind! Have a safe trip.
Safe travels! We actually have to get out butts back home over the next several days so that works for me.
Thanks. Yes, had a fun, history- and art-related trip to Philadelphia, and then helped return our youngest son to Boston to begin his sophomore year at Northeastern U. More to come in the game thread later today.
woohoo and welcome back, chief. That does sound like an enviable trip. Best of luck to your sophomore!
To all: Nia's request to the crew to speak up with their ideas was a bit meta: I'm embarrassingly literal-minded, and sometimes if another character is described as thinking or noticing something, I can't tell if the info/idea is actually being shared with others (unless the post explicitly says that the PC tells Nia, or the rest of the crew). So would it be possible to specify when your PC is saying their ideas/observations aloud, or keeping certain facts to themselves for whatever reason.
A good example of a helpful post is stolz's most recent, where Dr. M. reports his findings to Nia. Whereas I'm not sure if Nia knows what Rangin or Graham have come up with. (I'm confident Nia already knows what Kylah's been up to... bupkis!)
Is that okay to ask, assuming it made any sense? Sorry, I'm not sure why I'm having problems parsing this stuff lately. Old age, belike.
When I wrote that post, I was assuming that Dr. M, in order to come up with his "no uncertain terms" conclusions about Life Support and travel time and power requirements which he presented to Nia, also took into account everything that transpired during his conversation with Rangin (such as the star system(s) they can get to), plus whatever Kylah may or may not have had to say about any of that stuff. But that Nia herself had had her head buried in an aft access panel and was pretty busy checking circuitry and stuff, so who knows how much she heard of the actual discussion while it was taking place.
Yes that makes sense; that was very helpful, stolz! BTW I loved the suggestion of pushing the crew to Ollos as a motive for sabotage. That's out of the box thinking Nia appreciates!
Now you've gotta explain "dree and tholing" because Nia's not the only one who's never heard of that term. :iiam:
New to me, too!