Foodies

Pretentious foodies or pretentious audiophiles; I don't know what's worse, but they're both rather irritating.

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The Straight Dope seems to have a growing community of foodies. They might not call themselves such, but they come out in full force whenever a discussion of chain restaurants ensues. Their favorite targets are Applebee's and Olive Garden. In one thread, a reader describes getting sick within an hour of eating a meal at Applebee's, followed by a number of responses reaffirming just how terrible the food is there, with the usual comparisons to cardboard, dog turds and the like. A search through the SDMB shows a LOT of Applebee's hate.

Chains like Applebees and Olive Garden usually are quite busy, though. The response to their popularity: the usual "Americans are all stupid and don't know any better" cliche.

Really? Is Applebee's that bad? I've eaten at Applebee's and Olive Garden a number of times, and although I wouldn't consider it gourmet dining, what I had was rather tasty. I never got sick eating food at a chain; in fact, the times I've gotten food poisoning have been from independent restaurants.

This gets me to the main point of the post: obnoxious foodies. I'll present three subcategories; feel free to chime in with your thoughts.

1) The indie fan. Just like scene kids who ditch their favorite bands when they become too popular, indie fans believe that all chain restaurants are the gastronomical equivalent of Mylie Cyrus; they all served watered-down, lowest-common-denominator food for the masses. In comparison, independent restaurants are more "authentic", and reflect local character. In the eyes of many, the worst mom-and-pop restaurant is always superior to the best chain. They're easily spotted; just say "Macaroni Grill", "P.F. Chang's" or "Cheesecake Factory", and see who will stick their finger in their mouth and make gagging noises. That, or go to Buffalo and swing around a dead cat. The extreme version of the indie fan are the folks who believe that the lower a restaurant's inspection rating, the better the food.

2) The golden tongue. They always shop at farmers' markets, Whole Foods, and other high-end grocery stores. Their tastes are so rarefied that any food prepared with less then the highest-quality, freshest artisanal organic ingredients isn't even fit for their dog. They take annual vacations in Provence and Tuscany. They're regulars at the French Laundry, even if they live on the East Coast. Any wine that isn't from old vine grapes from the correct fields in France or Napa might as well be vinegar. God help them if they've got to make a cross-country drive.

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3) The ethnic fan. They can't enjoy the pleasures of a simple hamburger, steak, or pancake breakfast. Instead, their tastes favor ethnic cuisine, the more exotic and less Anglo/European the better. Some American regional cuisine (Cajun, California fusion) is tolerable, but they'rll more frequently seek out Thai, Korean, Indian, Middle Eastern, tapas, sushi, or better yet, Peruvian, Ethiopian or Tibetan. The more extreme ethnic fan seeks out food that is taboo; while just the thought of boneless wings at T.G.I. Friday's makes them gag, they have no problems with balut, goat eyeball soup, casu maru cheese, gaegogi, live crickets, and the like.

Foodies used to define people who just liked food, and were more adventurous in their dining choices than the mainstream public. Now, it seems like foodies make the pickiest eater seem open-minded in comparison.

Elmwood, I've often commented on it, being as I am a sophisticated European ( :) ), America has an echelon of chain restaurants that by and large don't exist here or in lots of other European countries. I suppose I'd call it MOR dining. They're not amazing but hardly terrible, family restaurants, with (usually) decent service. Olive Garden, Applebee's and a number of others would be in this category.

Here, typically but not exclusively, chains are at the grubbier end of the market. McDs, Burger King etc. However, some American chains' franchises here are slightly more upmarket than in the US, for example Pizza Hut. It's an expensive family restaurant here.

Middle-market, family dining is amply serviced in the US by these myriad chains. One thing worth noting, that people outside the industry might not, is that even chains can have vastly varying levels of service from one outlet to another.

That said, it does amaze me how busy Olive Gardens get. Could a one-off Italian in a similar locale (for example Bagley Rd. in Berea, OH) attract a similar amount of business?

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Originally posted by An Gadaí

Elmwood, I've often commented on it, being as I am a sophisticated European ( :) ), America has an echelon of chain restaurants that by and large don't exist here or in lots of other European countries. I suppose I'd call it MOR dining. They're not amazing but hardly terrible, family restaurants, with (usually) decent service. Olive Garden, Applebee's and a number of others would be in this category.

Here, typically but not exclusively, chains are at the grubbier end of the market. McDs, Burger King etc. However, some American chains' franchises here are slightly more upmarket than in the US, for example Pizza Hut. It's an expensive family restaurant here.

Middle-market, family dining is amply serviced in the US by these myriad chains. One thing worth noting, that people outside the industry might not, is that even chains can have vastly varying levels of service from one outlet to another.

That said, it does amaze me how busy Olive Gardens get. Could a one-off Italian in a similar locale (for example Bagley Rd. in Berea, OH) attract a similar amount of business?

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A good Italian restaurant does better than the Olive Garden here, but here is New Jersey in the influence of NYC. New Jersey has an Italian flavor to it honestly. I do look down on Olive Garden as I do have much better food available. There is an Italian chain I like though. It is called the Macaroni Grill. They are much better and quite excellent. They still failed in my town. The Olive Gardens only do well where lots of seniors live.

Now I eat at other chains, I find Applebee's fine. I still eat at places like Wendy's and even McDs. So I am not generally a food snob, just with Italian places.

Applebees has given me indigestion the three times I've been there, but on the whole it's no better or worse than the rest of the Mall Outbuilding Resturants - Bennigans and Houlihans and TGI Shit On The Walls and PF Changs. Really the worst sit down chain resturant I know of is Outback Steakhouse. For people who like....bad steak in tiny portions and waiting in really long lines. There's one less than a quarter mile from my house and based on the parking lot on Friday and Saturdays they're most likely giving away free helicopters.

Discounting hipster douchebags it does seem to me on the whole that most new variety "foodies" are people who are just looking for that all American holy grail of......authenticity and exclusivity. These people are worse than hipster douchebags because they don't make any music, wheras several hipster douchebags do.

They don't actually enjoy things that they say that they do, at least not in the sense that I seem to enjoy things, they just enjoy lording some obscure information over you, you hapless hayseed. These are the people at parties that will exaggeratedly gasp at whatever horrible thing you're about to enjoy because you, obviously in your utter ignorance, don't know that only Archie Bunker and people from rural Arkansas drink Russian vodka. Truly excellent, informed, smart people only drink Polish vodka made from potatoes. But it's nothing to do with enjoying anything, it's THE EXACT OPPOSITE. It's about making sure that nobody enjoys anything, ever. I would prefer it if they would just walk up to you and tell you that they think they're cooler than you are so you could just get right to the punching them in the crotch portion of the evening and go back to your inferior Russian vodka.

One time, I walked past an Applebee's and I swear the smell gave me food poisoning. Honest.

Olive Garden once served me a piece of lasagna that was still frozen in the middle, I never went there again. I remember their soups were quite tasty though.

When I'm traveling its always nice to have something like an Applebee's as backup but its nice to find some local non-chain place to eat at.

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Originally posted by Cluricaun

Really the worst sit down chain resturant I know of is Outback Steakhouse. For people who like....bad steak in tiny portions and waiting in really long lines.

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Seconded. The worst steak I've ever paid for came from this place.

Yup.

I've enjoyed meals at Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill. Applebee's, Houston's and The Cheescake Factory are good too.

My "go to" spot when I want a quick pick-me-up is Red Lobster. I'll grab a book and half watch the game and munch out at RL.

Yes, there are probably better restaurants out there, but their biscuits and salads are great and I love the fried shrimp.

Oooh - another chain I like is Maggiano's. I've had outstanding family style meals there.

I am not an audiophile, but I can be a dick about sound quality. I hate listening to good music on bad equipment. My definition of good equipment is pretty generous, though.

I agree with the OP, though.

Most chain "casual dining" places are fine. My only real complaint is that they can be expensive.

I also resent Olive Garden's pretense of being anything like real Italian cuisine. But the food is fine, even good at times.

Chili's is harmless, Maggiano's is good. I hate Applebee's for their prices, smallish portions, and limited veggie options.

I love Red Robbin. Just stay away from the ultra-oil-packed onion rings. You will regret them.

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Originally posted by jali

Oooh - another chain I like is Maggiano's. I've had outstanding family style meals there.

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Maggianos, at least around here is owned by a huge chain called “Lettuce Entertain You” that operates some very high caliber restaurants in addition to Maggianos – For example Joe’s Stone Crab in Chicago and Wildfire Steakhouse both of which are exquisite places that while not on the level of Charlie Trotter’s or Spiaggia also don’t subject you to truly fine dining where you get things that look like the pic in Elmwood’s post and cost you $900 for a 24 course tasting menu plus wine.

Hell, my favorite restaurant in the world is Japonais, which has opened a location inside the Mirage in Las Vegas, which means it’s fallen from grace in the foodie world.

I don't tend to go to chains, only because there aren't really any sit-down type chains in my immediate neighborhood, and there are a ton of other restaurants. But when I'm traveling or getting together with friends and Chili's is around, I'm happy to go there. Likewise, Applebees, TGIF, Olive Garden, whatever...I've never had a meal at any of them that I thought was inedible or I resented paying for.

Maggiano's I do put in a different category...certainly, the Lettuce places are corporate-owned "chain" restaurants, but they all have great concepts and fine chefs...some of them, top-notch chefs. They actually do have a couple restauants that are almost on the level of Charlie Trotter's, such as Tru and Everest. So, yeah, Maggiano's is a cut above a place like the Olive Garden.

So what does it say about me that I like to get shit faced and go to Waffle House?

Am I a bad person?

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Originally posted by Glazer

So what does it say about me that I like to get shit faced and go to Waffle House?

Am I a bad person?

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Glazer,

I LOVE Waffle House. We had a nice meal at the Waffle house near the stadium. I don't have to be drunk - just hungry for hash browns and eggs with cheese. Mmmm.

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Originally posted by jali

Glazer,

I LOVE Waffle House. We had a nice meal at the Waffle house near the stadium. I don't have to be drunk - just hungry for hash browns and eggs with cheese. Mmmm.

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That's 'cause your my kinda girl.

Mmm double order of hash browns, scattered, smothered, covered, diced and topped.

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Originally posted by jali

Glazer,

I LOVE Waffle House. We had a nice meal at the Waffle house near the stadium. I don't have to be drunk - just hungry for hash browns and eggs with cheese. Mmmm.

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W-wait a minute...you don't have to be drunk to go to a Waffle House? I was always under the impression that you had to blow a .08 just to get in the door. :lol:


Now, I'm hungry for an order of scattered, smothered, covered chunked and a patty melt.

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Originally posted by An Gadaí

Elmwood, I've often commented on it, being as I am a sophisticated European ( :) ), America has an echelon of chain restaurants that by and large don't exist here or in lots of other European countries. I suppose I'd call it MOR dining. They're not amazing but hardly terrible, family restaurants, with (usually) decent service. Olive Garden, Applebee's and a number of others would be in this category.

Here, typically but not exclusively, chains are at the grubbier end of the market. McDs, Burger King etc. However, some American chains' franchises here are slightly more upmarket than in the US, for example Pizza Hut. It's an expensive family restaurant here.

Middle-market, family dining is amply serviced in the US by these myriad chains. One thing worth noting, that people outside the industry might not, is that even chains can have vastly varying levels of service from one outlet to another.

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It's mostly the same here. Pizza hut has an odd status. It's not that cheap and they try hard to force American customer service on us (assigned seating, refills, obtrusive waiters etc.) Yet their nature as a mainstream chain makes them fast food.

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Originally posted by Cluricaun

It's about making sure that nobody enjoys anything, ever. I would prefer it if they would just walk up to you and tell you that they think they're cooler than you are so you could just get right to the punching them in the crotch portion of the evening and go back to your inferior Russian vodka.

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This nails it. It's just another way to feel superior to other people. And food is a topic that anyone can be a snob about because it doesn't require any talent or motivation to, you know, eat. And once you get a group of like-minded people together (like on the Dope) it becomes "common knowledge" that chains restaurants suck, or organic is always better.

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Originally posted by missred

W-wait a minute...you don't have to be drunk to go to a Waffle House? I was always under the impression that you had to blow a .08 just to get in the door. :lol:


Now, I'm hungry for an order of scattered, smothered, covered chunked and a patty melt.

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You don't have to be drunk to go. But if your drunk you have to go. At the very least to give you time to sober up enough to drive home.

Another foodie type: The Obnoxious Vegan

Most vegetarians and vegans I have met are perfectly nice, have no problems with other people eating meat if they wish, but they are not interested in it, either for taste or moral reasons.

However, there does exist one small group, who insist on pointing out every single wrong thing about anything which is not 100% organic. How eating any animal product is killing the planet, falling over faint or running to throw up if someone so much as waves a bacon sarnie in their general direction. They also proclaim their meals are perfectly healthy and that everyone could survive in the same way as them, if only everyone gave up animal products. They always consider themselves superior and always insist other meat eaters should leave the area, because the smell of burnt flesh offends their delicate nostrils.

The same principle can be applied to certain vegetarians I used to know as well.

I was just reading a thread on the Dope which linked a certain index, relating to insects. The descriptions sound like they were lifted straight from a fancy wine, or beer, magazine:

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# 1.0 Sweat bee: Light, ephemeral, almost fruity.<snip>
# 1.2 Fire ant: Sharp, sudden, mildly alarming. <snip>
# 2.0 Bald-faced hornet: Rich, hearty, slightly crunchy. <snip>
# 2.0 Yellowjacket: Hot and smoky, almost irreverent. <snip>
# 3.0 Red harvester ant: Bold and unrelenting. <snip>
# 3.0 Paper wasp: Caustic & burning. Distinctly bitter aftertaste. <snip>
# 4.0 Pepsis wasp: Blinding, fierce, shockingly electric. <snip>

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These all sound quite reasonable, if the person involved had been describing the taste of the insects.

What makes them particularly shocking to me is that they're actually taken from the Schmidt Sting Pain Index, and describe the relative pain from certain insect stings. And, yes, I can imagine a certain kind of foodie getting into insect stings if they're touted in the right source. :eek:

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Originally posted by Cluricaun

I would prefer it if they would just walk up to you and tell you that they think they're cooler than you are so you could just get right to the punching them in the crotch portion of the evening and go back to your inferior Russian vodka.

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Yes, please. And I wish I could get away with crotch punching when faced with one of those obnoxious foodies. :Shake:

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Originally posted by CatInASuit

The same principle can be applied to certain vegetarians I used to know as well.

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Having once been a vegetarian (and not obnoxious about it) I'm willing to bet these people are well outnumbered by the meat-eaters who feel entitled to complain about vegetarianism, demand explanations that meet with their approval, and bring up unsolicited, nonsensical objections to vegetarianism. Dumbass things like "well what about all the mice that get run over by farm equipment harvesting your vegetables?" :roll: Congrats, you've disproved vegetarianism.

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Originally posted by Exy

Having once been a vegetarian (and not obnoxious about it) I'm willing to bet these people are well outnumbered by the meat-eaters who feel entitled to complain about vegetarianism, demand explanations that meet with their approval, and bring up unsolicited, nonsensical objections to vegetarianism. Dumbass things like "well what about all the mice that get run over by farm equipment harvesting your vegetables?" :roll: Congrats, you've disproved vegetarianism.

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What if some obnoxious bint is getting in one's face about how meat is MURDER, and how could you live with having something DIE for your food?

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Originally posted by Orual

What if some obnoxious bint is getting in one's face about how meat is MURDER, and how could you live with having something DIE for your food?

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Well you could explain to them how a carrot becomes dead after being taken from the ground and consumed, or you can just skip to the aforementioned crotch punching. Keep in mind that one of these tactics will be vastly more effective than the other.

I consider myself a "food enthusiast" rather than a "foodie" for all the reasons listed above. The OP's examples #1 and #2 just make me sick. I myself am a #3, but I'm (hopefully) not a dick about it. I'd prefer some hole-in-the-wall ethnic place most any time, but if it's Thursday night and I'm tired and don't feel like cooking something complicated, Hamburger Helper works for me. Hell, I "invented" a beef pot pie by simply pouring a large can of Dinty Moore beef stew into a frozen pie crust, topping it with Bisquik batter, and baking it for 20 minutes. Sure, I enjoy eating the finer things from time to time, and my parents worked hard when we were kids to take us to nice places so we could get "cultured"... but only eating organic, locally-grown lettuce handpicked by virgins? Come on... that's just too much.

Whenever I hear the word "foodie", I can't help but think of Morgan Spurlock and his obnoxious wife in Super Size Me. Yes, Morgan really played the "drama queen", and personally I just can't believe that he was "on the verge of death" (hyperbole) as his doctors claimed at the end of the "experiment". But what really got me was the elitist attitude of his wife, who just "couldn't understand" how "those people" (poor folks) just couldn't make dinner from scratch every night out of fresh, locally grown produce - as if a) poor people could afford to shop at places like Whole Foods; b) there's a Whole Foods anywhere near them anyway; and c) most truly poor people I know worked 2-3 jobs anyway, and barely had time to stop by the drive-thru to feed their kids, much less cook them a meal from scratch every night. I just wanted to reach through the screen and slap her.

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Originally posted by Orual

What if some obnoxious bint is getting in one's face about how meat is MURDER, and how could you live with having something DIE for your food?

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I'm sure it happens. I just haven't ever seen it. I've seen the converse, though.

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Originally posted by tunaman

I just wanted to reach through the screen and slap her.

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That vegan "last meal" he ate before starting didn't look real appealing, either.

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Originally posted by Exy

I'm sure it happens. I just haven't ever seen it. I've seen the converse, though.

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I guess I'm lucky, I don't remember seeing either, and I've associated with vegetarians and serious carnivores. I can see that it would be annoying on either side, though. I'm not big on jerks, regardless of the issue they're being jerkish about.

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Originally posted by Exy

I'm sure it happens. I just haven't ever seen it. I've seen the converse, though.

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Oh asshole carnivores need a liberal application of crowbar to the solar plexus, no doubt.

Smug PETA-membery vegans do exist, though. (Perhaps they congregate out here in California.)