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This forum is not just for discussions in foreign languages but also those about foreign languages.
If you have a question on a language, just start a thread.
For questions about the German language feel free to ask me, a native speaker with some linguistic training.
Of course our other German speakers are invited to answer, too.
If you want to start a separate thread for your question instead of asking it here then feel free to do so.
This thread is just supposed to get the ball rolling.
I've heard before that Germany has various disparate dialects. Have you ever encountered another German speakers whose dialect you found it hard to understand?
Have these regional varieties largely died out? How hard is it for a standard German speaker to understand the Swiss German dialect?
What are your favourite terms that can't be expressed properly in English (I'm thinking like schadenfreude before English adopted it)? Conversely, what about English terms that can't be expressed in German?
Whilst I'm not a native German speaker, my German is close to fluent, and I've found that I can understand Swiss German easily enough, but something like Bavarian is like a whole different language -- I could get the gist of what they were saying, but when I had to interact with Bavarian speakers, it took effort on their part not to slip into dialect.Quote:
Originally posted by An Gadaí
And a question of my own -- what's going on with the capitalisation of nouns? Ja oder nein?
Yes, absolutely. If someone speaks in an actual regional dialect that you aren't used to (as opposed to mostly Standard German with an accent) that is pretty likely.Quote:
Originally posted by An Gadaí
German as it is commonly known is partly a political construct. The idea of a uniting German language was very important in German nationalism, especially because Germany has almost always been a politically and ethnically ill-defined country.
Combine that with the prejudice against non-standard dialects that you find in so many countries and that explains why regional dialects have been marginalized.
Even before Standard German became as common as it is today it was the dialect of the urban elites and regional dialects were often relegated to the role of a peasant's language.
No, not really. However all writing and other media except for novelties are in Standard German, everybody understands it and can speak it, although possibly with a thick accent. Also people are more mobile than in the past so that there is more interaction between people who don't share a regional dialect.Quote:
Have these regional varieties largely died out?
Relatively hard. You can figure it out, but it takes some effort.Quote:
How hard is it for a standard German speaker to understand the Swiss German dialect?
I know that I have noticed various examples from time to time but I can't think of a good one right now.Quote:
Originally posted by AllWalker
There are a few well known cases like Heimat, something close to homeland, home or origin but with very strong connotations of belonging to a place. I'll try to think of a better example.
One example is fair as in fair play. We had to steal your word.Quote:
Conversely, what about English terms that can't be expressed in German?
A different one is not really specific to English but a defect in the German language is that the word for girlfriend or boyfriend is simply a male or female version of the common word for friend. That means that I use the exact same word to refer to my male buddy that his girlfriend uses to refer to him. So far so good. The problem is that when I refer to a female friend I have a choice between calling her "my (girl)friend, but not like that, in a purely platonic way" or my "acquaintance." Both versions are far from perfect.
Given that it was easier than Bavarian, are you sure that they didn't speak Standard High German with a strong accent? Otherwise that would be surprising unless you spent much more time in Switzerland than Bavaria.Quote:
Originally posted by Angua
There is no really good reason. Just as in English, centuries ago capital letters were used for emphasis in an unsystematic way. Later a standard emerged and in German that included the capitalization of common nouns and nominalizations.Quote:
And a question of my own -- what's going on with the capitalisation of nouns? Ja oder nein?
Proponents claim better readability and they can cite studies supporting that notion, but the effect is disputed. It seems safe to say that it doesn't make a big difference either way.
Personally I would lean towards keeping it. It may not be necessary, but it is an occasional extra bit of information and as long as you are used to it there is no significant downside beyond wear and tear of shift keys.
Concerning dialects, you might want to look at this dialect map of Bavaria.
One of the sample speakers is from my home town (and he sounds exactly like our old mayor).
Thanks for the link. The variety is quite astounding imho.
This wouldn't surprise me -- but I was able to tell pretty quickly that it was not High German -- it definitely struck me as Swiss GermanQuote:
Originally posted by Feirefiz
That's my thought too, plus by this point its so built in and automatic to me that not putting capitals in, looks weird.Quote:
Personally I would lean towards keeping it. It may not be necessary, but it is an occasional extra bit of information and as long as you are used to it there is no significant downside beyond wear and tear of shift keys.
What I mean is that you will often encounter speakers who are unmistakeably Swiss because they speak with an obvious Swiss accent. However they use mostly Standard German vocabulary and grammar. That means that they are reasonably easy to understand once you get used to the accent. If they go all the way and all aspects of their language are Swiss then it's much harder.Quote:
Originally posted by Angua
Just quick comment on terminology: High German is used in two different meanings that can lead to some confusion. Colloquially it is used to refer to the standard dialect. The problem is that it has a technical meaning, too. In that context it is a major subdivision of the German language (family) that encompasses not only the "news reader" standard dialect but also the various regional dialects of central and southern Germany and Austria as well as branches that are typically considered separate languages, namely Swiss and Yiddish.
There is nothing wrong with using the term the colloquial way as long as you are aware of the potential ambiguity.
Okay, it's not a language question, more a cultural one. When I last visited Germany, I was in three homes all of which had statues of crows in the garden. They looked like Heckle and Jeckle but I don't know are they meant to be them or something else. Is this a coincidence or do a lot of homes there have such statues and do they mean anything?
http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com...cklejeckle.JPG
I have no idea. If all homes were in the same area it could be some kind of local symbol or mascot, but I don't know.
Ah, the people's homes I saw in, they all knew each other so it could even have been in injoke with them. When I asked them about it their English (nor my German) wasn't good enough to explain about them.