City Builders (Computer Game) [PICTURES]
Aside from the Super Mario series, probably the class of game I've spent the most time playing has been the urban simulation, mostly after the SimCity fame. I was first introduced to SimCity via the original's port to the SNES, but later cut my teeth on PC's SimCity2000, 3000, and SimCity4. I've been witness to the growth in popularity of the genre, and have participated in online city journals which chronicle the growth and development of player's creations. I have also discovered many styles and reasons for play, with my principal motivation being the exploration of the simulator itself. Long have I desired a realistic economics engine be incorporated into a city simulator.
Probably the last two significant developments in the genre have been EA's SimCity Societies, and Monte Cristo's CitiesXL. I haven't paid much attention to SimCity Societies (which has since been released to mixed opinion), ever since learning EA was to take the SimCity series in a direction which pandered to more casual gamers, and radically dumbed-down the simulator itself. CitiesXL, however, appears much more promising, even at prerelease. Their staff has proven themselves very responsive to fan opinion and feedback, and so far the game itself looks intriguing, to say the least.
Here is a link to the CitiesXL website, which includes blogs and discussions on the various aspects of the simulation.
So, is anybody else here interested in city builders, or anticipating the next generation of urban simulation?
Re: City Builders (Computer Game)
I like them alright. They're not my favorite thing, but not my least favorite, either. Your link looks interesting, though.
Re: City Builders (Computer Game)
Re: City Builders (Computer Game) [PICTURES]
I love me some city-builders, but after SimCity 4 I got pretty fed up - the game was beautiful and pretty well balanced, but the only way to get realistic traffic patterns was to install a user-created pathfinding mod. This mod also made previously lag-heavy maps playable again. In other words, the game shipped and shipped its expansion pack without patching a major problem, and the developers' response was generally that "if you had a faster computer the game would run faster". Since then I've mostly been bouncing between Civ IV, Team Fortress, and my latest favorite: Dwarf Fortress, which has all of the complexity and fun of a medieval city-builder, but none of the graphics. I think that EA envisioned - but couldn't execute - the idea that each citizen would be a unique snowflake with distinct and occasionally troublesome opinions about your city.
CitiesXL looks fantastic, and I see some places where they've worked to give the city developer more freedom -- I love the angled grids and the gently curving roadways in those preview shots. I know that one of the big problems with SimCity 4 was that getting your city the last 5% of the way towards looking gorgeous and realistic was 90% of the work. I'm looking forward to seeing CitiesXL, but given that Dwarf Fortress is free I'll probably wait until CitiesXL comes out with the inevitable expansion pack and then snap up the Gold Edition in a bargain bin.
Re: City Builders (Computer Game) [PICTURES]
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Originally posted by Jurph
I love me some city-builders, but after SimCity 4 I got pretty fed up - the game was beautiful and pretty well balanced, but the only way to get realistic traffic patterns was to install a user-created pathfinding mod. This mod also made previously lag-heavy maps playable again. In other words, the game shipped and shipped its expansion pack without patching a major problem, and the developers' response was generally that "if you had a faster computer the game would run faster".
You'll find total agreement with me on this score. I believe there was a misunderstanding among some who believed SimCity4's intensive hardware requirements originated from the graphics load when, in fact, the various simulator engines were the principal culprit. Among the hard core gaming element, there were complaints not merely from unrealistic traffic patterns concerning pathfinding, but unrealistic commute times and constrains on how much traffic a certain transportation network could accommodate.
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Originally posted by Jurph
CitiesXL looks fantastic, and I see some places where they've worked to give the city developer more freedom -- I love the angled grids and the gently curving roadways in those preview shots. I know that one of the big problems with SimCity 4 was that getting your city the last 5% of the way towards looking gorgeous and realistic was 90% of the work.
I found creating those gorgeous and realistic looking cities so frustrating and time consuming to produce that that was probably the underlying reason why I came to play city builders primarily to explore the simulator itself.
Among the city builder communities I once participated in, angled and curved roadways were one of the most cited, most desired features for a next generation urban simulation. Also cited, but more problematic, was the elimination of the grid-based system for plopping lots, buildings, and other city structures in favor of a vector-based system. And I had often voiced a desire for that economics engine. But probably the greatest stumbling block towards creating realistic appearing cities in past generations of urban simulators has been the grid, and the dimetric, orthographic projection of the cityscape which limits the options of the city planner.
Re: City Builders (Computer Game) [PICTURES]
Quote:
Originally posted by The Logos
I believe there was a misunderstanding among some who believed SimCity4's intensive hardware requirements originated from the graphics load when, in fact, the various simulator engines were the principal culprit. Among the hard core gaming element, there were complaints not merely from unrealistic traffic patterns concerning pathfinding, but unrealistic commute times and constrains on how much traffic a certain transportation network could accommodate.
I was right there in the pack of complainers, and I used the traffic mod by default as soon as it came out. As a Dwarf Fortress player I now understand exactly how much CPU power a pure simulation engine can take up (even with ASCII graphics) and that's okay. What's not okay is the computer spending 99% of my CPU power and then getting the wrong answer -- e.g. a middle-income Sim deciding to take the bus across town, then get on the subway, then get out of the subway and take a train to the train station, when he's got a freeway runnin' through the yard. I guess I was most incensed that the developers didn't bother to patch it, or at least license the patch from the freelancer who fixed their game on his own time / dime. I think the MMO-style subscription fee for CitiesXL is going to raise the bar for the amount of support that the community expects -- and the city-simulation community is a demanding and pedantic one! I probably won't shell out for the subscription until I've played the single-player version, and I really dislike the idea that the downloadable content "GEMS" will be (a) pay-to-play, (b) tycoon-style minigames, and (c) pretty much required to get certain types of eye candy. Unless the minigames are well-designed I can see the macro game falling into the same trap as SPORE. "Oh, you want to land on this planet? Time to do the dogfighting minigame again."
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Among the city builder communities I once participated in, angled and curved roadways were one of the most cited, most desired features for a next generation urban simulation. Also cited, but more problematic, was the elimination of the grid-based system for plopping lots, buildings, and other city structures in favor of a vector-based system. [...] But probably the greatest stumbling block towards creating realistic appearing cities in past generations of urban simulators has been the grid, and the dimetric, orthographic projection of the cityscape which limits the options of the city planner.
Doing a realistic Washington D.C., Philadelphia, or Portland pretty much requires the ability to do a skew grid, and doing Manhattan typically forced the user to rotate their map so that the edges didn't run north-south. I like the gridded regions with a local axis that isn't necessarily aligned with the north-south axis or the other local grids - this feature might make me take a second look. The long swooping highway ramps could make a Baltimore or Los Angeles more feasible, too.
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And I had often voiced a desire for that economics engine.
I usually found that handling the city's finances was difficult enough without the external economy, but on the other hand having a strong commercial sector that creates jobs for neighboring cities is a nice way to run things: low costs for services and plenty of tax revenue that you don't have to spend on anything but beautification.
