The World Baseball Classic 2009 thread

The tournament will start on Thursday, March 5. Already (at least in Japan), there have been several practice exhibition matches between the national teams and between them and the Japan League teams, and all of these have seen very good attendance figures (40,000+ for Saturday's game between Japan and the Seibu Lions).

Wiki has a good overview of the tournament set up. The starting groups are as follows:

Pool A (playing in Tokyo)
Japan
South Korea
China
Taiwan

Pool B (Mexico City)
Mexico
Australia
Cuba
South Africa

Pool C (Toronto)
Canada
Italy
United States of America
Venezuela

Pool D (San Juan, PR)
Puerto Rico
Dominican Republic
Netherlands
Panama

Some interesting rules added for this tournament, including limits to how many pitches an individual pitcher can throw in each round, and starting with men on first and second if the score is still tied in the 12th inning.

Personally, I'm really hoping that the WBC takes off in popularity. It would be great to have a true world championship, and could spread baseball to more countries.

How good are the other Asian teams besides Japan? Is the way you listed them in the pool pretty much how they will finish up?

I think the country I am most surprised to see competing is Italy. What were the qualifications for this tournament? How good are the Euro teams?

I love international tournaments, so I hope this takes off too.

By the way, has there been a J-League version of the book "Ball Four?"

In the pre-series exhibition games, Japan and China have both been making a lot of fielding errors. Maybe that's to be expected this early in the year, but they'll both need to get their acts together. Korea was the #2 Asian team last year, so they're likely to be strong again this time around.

Italy and the Netherlands were both in the 2006 tournament as well (in fact, the roster of teams looks to be identical). I remember hearing back in 80s about the Italian leagues, so there seems to be a good history of baseball there.

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be anyone as colorful or creative as Jim Bouton to write a book about the underside of Japanese baseball. I think the players depend too much on maintaining good connections with the administration, press and other players for their post-playing careers to risk that on a tell-all book. Long-time Japan writer Robert Whiting wrote The Chrysanthemum and the Bat in 1977, saying that "The Japanese view of life, stressing group identity, cooperation, hard work, respect for age, seniority and 'face' has permeated almost every aspect of the sport. Americans who come to play in Japan quickly realize that Baseball Samurai Style is different." Things still seem pretty similar, although the wave of players now going to the Majors has shaken things up a lot.

I wonder if there will be any friction over having Venezuela in the American pool?

I've have sitting right in front of me my tickets to both semi-final games as well as the championship game at Dodger Stadium. I am beyond thrilled to be going! I went to one game back in '06 and had a blast. Particularly now that baseball is making its exit from the Olympics, I think the WBC is more important than ever for the sport, and I'm hoping it's more popular than it was three years ago.

Let The Games Begin!

Well, Japan won 4-0 over China.

Even though they lost, the China team showed they had talent. They may be a major contender in the decade.

Darvish threw pretty well, and defensively, the Japan team did a good job. They still don't look like the stars they've been hyped as, though.

Well, Taiwan just got spanked by South Korea last night, 9-0. Taiwan is playing China this afternoon, and Japan will play S. Korea tonight to see who goes to the finals for Pool 1.

Boo-yeah! That's the team everyone here's been expecting! Japan over S. Korea 14-2. Ichiro (as well as just about everyone else) looked like they were back on their game again.

Can't say I'm much of a fan of the early ending, though. "It ain't over 'til it's over" means 9 innings!

I watched most of Dom. vs. Ned, USA vs. CAN, and some of PAN vs. PR. yesterday.

Dominican Republic looked flat, like they were all just waiting for someone to hit the big hit. Netherlands was happy to take the win from them.

Canada played very tough but the USA home runs finally finished them off. The US team looks really loose, in a good way.

Panama seemed over-matched.

I was able to catch some of the Venezuela-Italy game before putting my son to bed, and man, it wasn't pretty. It was already 6-0 in the 8th, and looking at the box scores Venezuela got a seventh run right after I left. I guess it wasn't too much of a surprise, though.

Checking the scores I see the US squeaked past Canada, 6-5.

And after getting beaten 14-2 by Japan, South Korea took out their frustrations on China today with a 14-0 win in seven innings. Tomorrow's Japan-Korea rematch should be interesting.

Boy, did the US put the hurt on Venezuela last night. After their starter ran out of gas Ven just didn't seem to have a pitcher who could get the US out consistently. I stopped watching after awhile because of the hour but if it had been at all close I would have kept watching.

I would have liked to have seen the Mexico-Australia game (a 17-7 mercy rule shellacking of heavily favored host Mexico), that sounds like it was exciting.

I'm finding this tournament far more interesting than watching spring training games, I can tell you that.

sublight, when do the Japanese leagues start their season?

I only got to watch a little bit of the USA-Venezuela game last night. Have the announcers been saying anything about attendance thus far? I am still deeply hopeful that this things becomes wildly popular.

Who are folks predicting to be in the championship game? I'll be there for it, and I'm really hoping for a USA-Cuba finale, but I have no idea how likely that is.

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Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph

I would have liked to have seen the Mexico-Australia game (a 17-7 mercy rule shellacking of heavily favored host Mexico), that sounds like it was exciting.

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Nice to see our new 12 million dollars man bombarted by the Aussies. :oops: At least our new stadium looks pretty...

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Originally posted by Asimovian

I only got to watch a little bit of the USA-Venezuela game last night. Have the announcers been saying anything about attendance thus far? I am still deeply hopeful that this things becomes wildly popular.
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I believe they had over 42,000 for the USA vs. CAN game, the USA-Ven game wasn't close to that.

From what I can tell at the three venues I have seen (Toronto, San Juan and Mexico City) crowds have been good when that country's team has been playing but not so good otherwise.

Of course the real important thing is the TV audience, the actual attendance doesn't matter too much.

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Originally posted by hawkeyeop

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Nice to see our new 12 million dollars man bombarted by the Aussies. :oops: At least our new stadium looks pretty...

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I have nothing against the Mexican team of course, you just have to root for the underdog in a situation like that.

Huh, no games in San Diego. Guess that's over for a while. Sigh...

Sometimes you smoke the bong, and sometimes the Bong smokes you.

Japan loses to Korea, 1-0. They're both going on to the next round, though.

Good pitching and some great fielding on both sides. Unfortunately, Iwakuma couldn't hold on to his momentum.

They've got a week now to get un-jetlagged and ready for Pool B. I'm honestly pretty surprised how badly Australia beat Mexico.

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Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph

sublight, when do the Japanese leagues start their season?

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They follow more or less the same schedule as the Major Leagues do, starting around the end of March/beginning of April, and finishing up in early October. the season is shorter and the number of games has varied from year to year (usually between 130 and 140). There are also only 12 teams so there's no playoff system.

I haven't heard anything about the league postponing the start of the season for the WBC, but they might give a few extra days for the players to practice with their regular teammates again. Even if Japan goes to the finals, they'll still be finished by the 23rd.

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Originally posted by sublight

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Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph

sublight, when do the Japanese leagues start their season?

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They follow more or less the same schedule as the Major Leagues do, starting around the end of March/beginning of April, and finishing up in early October. the season is shorter and the number of games has varied from year to year (usually between 130 and 140). There are also only 12 teams so there's no playoff system.

I haven't heard anything about the league postponing the start of the season for the WBC, but they might give a few extra days for the players to practice with their regular teammates again. Even if Japan goes to the finals, they'll still be finished by the 23rd.

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Thanks for the answer. I forget now why I asked the question though...I think it was something one of the talking heads said about the Japanese players re-joining their teams after the Classic. They made it sound like their regular season had already started but maybe I misunderstood.

How do they do spring training, or the equivalent?

According to this page, half of the teams go to Okinawa (which is pretty much like Hawaii, climate-wise), while others go to Kyushu and Shikoku, which are the two southern main islands (and cover roughly the same latitude as San Diego - LA). They begin at the start of February, which I think is earlier than the Majors.

Let's hear it for the Dutch; they've now beaten a Dominican team stacked with major leaguers *twice*. They are stacked with AAA guys, Nederlander professionals, and Sidney Ponson. This is the kind of CInderella stuff that could make me match an entire game, maybe.

Wow, good for them! It's shaping up to be an interesting mix of teams in the second round.

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Originally posted by Ichbin Dubist

Let's hear it for the Dutch; they've now beaten a Dominican team stacked with major leaguers *twice*. They are stacked with AAA guys, Nederlander professionals, and Sidney Ponson. This is the kind of CInderella stuff that could make me match an entire game, maybe.

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I know, it's freaking amazing! I was watching the game last night and couldn't figure out how they were staying even with the Dominicans, but they did, then they beat them (I had to go to bed).

So as of right now I think the following teams are eliminated: TPE, CHN, RSA, CAN, ITA, PAN, DOM.

And as of this morning Australia is out too.

Oh, well, they'll always have Mexico City.

The US lost to PR 11-1 last night but as the saying goes it wasn't that close.

They left the US starter (Peavy) in way too long. The US team was pretty much behind from the first inning. I'm concerned now that Pedroia is gone, the announcers were saying what a sparkplug he had been for the team, now that he is gone a lot of the energy seems to be gone as well.

So now if they don't beat the Netherlands today they are eliminated.

I'm looking forward to the Japan/Cuba game today, I hope I get to see part of it.

Well, it looks like Japan and Korea are facing each other yet again after beating Cuba and Mexico, respectively.

And sadly, it looks like the Dutch team will be heading home after losing to the US, 9-3.

Am I a bad American for rooting for the Netherlands to knock us out? Yes, I am.

I have to say this format makes it really annoying to figure out who the fuck has to do what to advance. About 3 minutes of research has me about 82% sure that the US team still needs to beat either Puerto Rico or Venezuela (whoever wins? loses?) to advance to the semis. Boy, give me the simple joys of the major leagues. Anyway, I can see the Seppos losing to either team no problem, what little I've seen of the US team is not all that impressive.

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Originally posted by Ichbin Dubist

Am I a bad American for rooting for the Netherlands to knock us out? Yes, I am.

I have to say this format makes it really annoying to figure out who the fuck has to do what to advance. About 3 minutes of research has me about 82% sure that the US team still needs to beat either Puerto Rico or Venezuela (whoever wins? loses?) to advance to the semis. Boy, give me the simple joys of the major leagues. Anyway, I can see the Seppos losing to either team no problem, what little I've seen of the US team is not all that impressive.

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I agree on both counts, the format still confuses me and I don't feel great about the American team.

The Cubans could not figure out Dice-K. I'm sure the Red Sox wish he would pitch that aggresively for them though.

Chipper Jones has openly criticized the format, stating the break between games is just too much to bear.

Does he mean the break between the first and second rounds? I think a long break like that may be necessary so that the Pool A teams are hampered (or can't claim they're hampered) by jet lag from the 12-odd hour time difference.

Seems like it would be smarter to have everyone start in the same region, but I guess economic realities dictate you hold the games where there are people who want to see them.

US - Puerto Rico

It's bottom of the ninth, US is at bat, down by one run and with one out. Bases loaded.

Woah!

David Wright smacks a 2-run single to put the US ahead and end the game 6-5. The US goes on to face Venezuela for the Pool finals.

And Darvish had an incredibly bad opening inning against Korea that Japan just couldn't recover from. Korea 4, Japan 1.

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Originally posted by sublight

Woah!

David Wright smacks a 2-run single to put the US ahead and end the game 6-5. The US goes on to face Venezuela for the Pool finals.

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Aaaaaannnnd I had gone to bed the previous inning. Where's the smacky-face smiley when you need him?

sublight does Japan face elimination tonight?

Does the US get to re-load their roster for the next round?

Japan faces Cuba next, and whoever loses that goes home.

I believe the rules are that all the pitching restrictions get re-set with each new round.

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Originally posted by sublight

Japan faces Cuba next, and whoever loses that goes home.

I believe the rules are that all the pitching restrictions get re-set with each new round.

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Wow. I didn't realize Cuba was on the edge too.

It seems like teams can add to their rosters as they advance to the next level of the tournament:

http://web.worldbaseballclassic.com/abo ... sp#rosters

The US/Ven game is taking place in a veritable monsoon. Someone is going to get hurt. First post ever from my Blackberry!

Things are looking bleak for team USA. This is their last chance to make up a 4-run deficit to Venezuela. Good pitching by Hanrahan, though.

Two outs, last chance.

And that ends the game, Venezuela 10, USA 6. Venezuela goes on to the final round, while the US... also goes on to the final round.

Guess it wasn't too much of a nail-biter.

The Cuba-Japan game going on now, on the other hand, will determine who goes on and who goes home. So far it's 0-0 in the 3rd.

Well, unless their defense completely collapses in the next half-inning, Japan is going on to face Korea again, and both of them will go to the final round against the US and Venezuela.

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Originally posted by sublight

And that ends the game, Venezuela 10, USA 6. Venezuela goes on to the final round, while the US... also goes on to the final round.

Guess it wasn't too much of a nail-biter.

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Yeah, I stopped watching because it was just too strange with all the rain. I really didn't want to possibly witness a career-ending injury for an essentially meaningless game.


First base is going to be a problem for the US. Youkilis is out, Adam Dunn really isn't at home there and there are no good potential replacements on either the regular or provisional roster.

Well Japan managed to beat Korea 6-2, so the final round will be USA-Japan, Venezuela-Korea.

Looks like Matsuzaka may be pitching against the US. Ichiro has been making contact with the ball pretty consistently the whole tournament, but just hasn't been producing that many hits. Hope he manages to find his stride soon.

It was fun to watch the Korean and Japanese teams last night, that was the first time I have really seen them, especially the Koreans. Definitely a different style of baseball played in those two countries vs. the US and the Latino teams. A lot of balls hit up the middle. I was surprised at the high number of defensive miscues though, I was expecting more of an emphasis on fundamentals.

Five errors! Venezuela made five errors on their way to losing to Korea 10-2. The first inning was a nightmare for Venezuela and it just never got better. An absolute rout.

And the final matchup has been decided. Japan and Korea have been slugging it out back and forth the entire tournament, and this time it's for keeps.

Again, Davey Johnson left his starter in too long, he should have been out of there 2-3 batters earlier. Did he not realize he was in an elimination game? How many chances did he think his team was going to get if he let the Japanese team take the lead?

Anyway Japan and Korea will face each other for what feels like the 1 millionth time in this tournament. Both teams richly deserve to be there and I'm sure it will be another great game.

My money is on the Koreans...I smell upset.

sublight what was your impression of team USA from last night's game? Do you think it was poor managing, poor conditioning (given the high number of injuries)? Or do you think other countries just want to win this tournament more than the US as a country does?

I didn't see enough of the US games to really get a feel for how they were performing. The injuries definitely took out some of their top players, but I think a lot of the problem is that the WBC may be seen as more of a pre-season exhibition than an important tournament (and admittedly, that's not an entirely unreasonable position). I don't know about the other countries, but for Japan there was a good deal of pre-tournament publicity and speculation over who would be selected, rather than who would agree to go, which was the impression I got from the US players.

I recently read an interesting comparison with England and soccer. Being the birthplace of the sport, it was initially inconceivable that any other country could be better than them at it. International competition wasn't even considered worthwhile (they didn't attend the first three World Cup tournaments, IIRC, though they certainly would have qualified). Eventually, it hit home that the center of power had shifted elsewhere, and even giving 100% wouldn't mean making the final, let alone a guaranteed walk to the Cup. The parallel with the US and MLB gets more interesting when you consider that the professional league in England is still considered one of the world's best, and one that players from around the world aspire to be a part of. But it's become the stage for the world's best, rather than England's best: even with the strength of their clubs and a rabid fan base, the national team hasn't won the World Cup in over 40 years.

Time will tell if the US follows the same path.