The UK Europe debates

Something that we haven't had for about forty years is a good debate on Europe. Last time, it was about joining up to the European Trade agreement and since then a lot has changed. There has been the Euro, closer political integration and a general sense that the countries are losing their identity and being more homogenised.

Well, over the last two weeks, we have had two televised debates between Nick Clegg, leader of the Lib Dems and pro-europe vs Nigel Farage, leader of UKIP and anti-europe. Between them they have had a knockdown, drag-out battle over the issues surrounding Europe. The general outcome is that Nigel Farage won both debates, the first by a little and the second quite convincingly. In some respects both of the parties have won due to all the exposure that the two minor parties have received, but after the second one, UKIP is probably going to get a large boost.

Of course, the small matter of European elections in a months time might have had something to do with trying to gain as much publicity as possible. At the rate, we could wind up with a four party system all trying to get into power.

It's also been a lot more interesting than the last set of election debates in the UK and the US presidential ones. It was actually good to see two politicians with genuinely opposite views debating the subject, even if they didn't always answer the questions.

So what do you think? Is the UK better off with or without Europe?

I'm more of the preference of Europe forming a free trade area than heading towards a single political entity.

If anyone is curious and wants to see what all the fuss was about:

Debate 1

Debate 2

Farage is some man, his wife is German and I'm pretty sure his ex-wife was Irish and so many UKIP types have second homes in the likes of Spain. Their anti-EU stance feels a bit badly thought through even if there are obviously legitimate concerns with regard to loss of sovereignty and accountability and the ability of one sinking member of the EU to drag others down but then pooled risk is usually a good idea. I am not sure how UK exports breakdown as regards the EU and how much economically the UK would stand to lose out if it were to leave but I would be against the UK leaving for a number of selfish reasons.

The UK acts as a strong bulwark against the EU sliding to true European Superstate but only if it remains within it and while the European project has been largely positive I would not be comfortable with Ireland being thoroughly ruled from Brussels, Strasbourg, Berlin or wherever. Also, given that there's a UK border on my island, a non-EU UK, especially one with strict migration controls (which is presumably one of the major attractions of opting out of the EU) would put the Republic Of Ireland in a difficult position, it would also perhaps act as a damper on cross-border trade between the republic and the North and the republic and Britain.



I feel like the lion's share of UKIP support comes from middle-class crypto-racists. They don't want all those Poles, Bulgarians etc. "swamping" England.

By the way, in the UK, are European Elections typically seen as "jobs for the boys", irrelevant? They are in Ireland, so you get people who would never be within 1,000 of real power in the Irish parliament getting elected, often on niche, local issues. It seems to be a place to put a party politician who isn't quite popular enough to make it as a TD (MP). Our Senate is something similar.