When does humour stop being funny and start being offensive?

Given that there is a wide discrepency in what people find funny, is there still a line beyond which jokes stop being funny and start being offensive. As an example, the latest Frankie Boyle show that has received numerous complaints for being offensive. He has used racial language within his shows with his response being that is satirising the words not endorsing their use.

Also have times changed, in that what was once considered funny would now be considered unacceptable? I am aware shows like the Black and White Minstrel Show would no longer be acceptable, but does the same rule apply to comedy.

Sometimes it is a fine line. In Clerks II they manage to make funny offensive phrases like porch monkey but played straighter racial caricatures don't hold up well at all now. Watching old movies you see stuff that would never fly today. Babes in Arms had a minstrel show skit in their play in the barn. The most jarring thing in Breakfast at Tiffany's was Mickey Rooney's portrayal of the Japanese neighbor Mr. Yunioshi. (Odd, first two examples I could think of were Mickey Rooney).

The bigotry in All in the Family is not offensive as the one most guilty of it is so clearly ignorant and wrong headed about these things.

Well, consider one of the original situation comedies: Amos & Andy. It built on the stereotypes of rural blacks, with the two titular characters being ostensibly black men. In reality they were two white actors who affected vocal characteristics of black men for their radio work, then went on to don black face for public appearances and when they took the show to television. It is very much an adaptation of the black face minstrel tradition. For years this show was considered one of the most popular in the US.

Today, a lot of people cringe just hearing about the show. And the humor is very iffy for a modern audience. Just for one example, they had a cross over with the Jack Benny Show, where it was revealed that Benny's manservant, Rochester, had been their driver, until they gave him to Benny after they were all in a car accident.


I think there are subjects where any attempt to mine jokes from them are going to be fraught with hazard for the performer. Rape and slavery are the two that I think are most hazardous. Off the top of my head I can't think of any such jokes that haven't fallen flat for me, but I have to admit I'm a bit more straight-laced than many.

Though I'll admit I enjoyed the Antoine Dodson video, I'm not sure I'd call that rape humor, rather than vigilante humor.

If the point is to avoid offense and cruelty, humor on sensitive subjects has to rely on the David and Goliath principle. The sympathy of the audience and the humor has to be on the side of the less powerful person or group. Either you have the less powerful poking fun at the more powerful or the more powerful are being shown to be foolish or stupid when they attack the less powerful.

When the powerful attack and weak and the audience is meant to laugh at the weak, it's simply bullying.

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Originally posted by Zuul

When the powerful attack and weak and the audience is meant to laugh at the weak, it's simply bullying.

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Jack Benny's on air relationship with Rochester was interesting. At one point Benny got some outraged responses after a skit that had Rochester hitting Benny. The writer complained that if there were any hitting going on, it should be the white man hitting the black. Benny's response was, that wouldn't be funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWjCkcAmzDc

Not satire...

Holy crap. What an asshole.

I think that insults assholes.

It's best when it gets totally incomprehensible. I couldn't quite figure out what Dickens-shit "walking down the street" even meant until the reference to "mucky" but "it's so appropriate" makes it so obviously racist. (The other announcer doesn't seem to quite have her name right - the 'i' sound is somewhat closer to that in "seek", but shorter. Actually the first i in her name is long, the second is short. Whether the sh is pronounced may vary, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's there, so something like "deekshet" seems likely.)

After looking at the thread title I also began to wonder about the temporal "when". There are situations where someone might make a joke or two about someone's appearance that could be offensive bit is acceptable and possibly amusing casually. But if it happens repeatedly, or they are "constantly" making comments, it must get actively offensive at some point.

It gets offensive when someone else gets offended. Duh. I've got two black people that work for me, both sit on the same side of the room. (all this is jokingly, btw) I've been accused of segregating the room (desk 4 is close to the door, after desk 2 became open, the person moved), being a slave driver, forcing them to work without wages, comments that my forefathers probably beat their forefathers and I should pay reparations (my family came over around 1915), etc etc etc. To which I retaliate with random, off the wall racist comments such as, "MARK OF CAINE!" or some other crazy shit.

Is our normal office banter offensive? Yes. Is anyone in the office offended by it? Nope! I'm just lucky with who I work with. They got me watching Boondocks. Nuff said.

The worst racists are the closet ones. This goes for all races.

I've seen (and engaged in) the kind of banter hobbler is talking about. I think an important thing about edgy humor that needs to be taken into account is that being what an outsider could call offensive isn't always a bad thing. Somebody, somewhere can get their panties in a wad about anything. If the person or people you're directing that banter toward isn't offended, then it doesn't matter. But every once in a while a well-meaning (usually white and liberal) person will dive in and try to protect the poor dears.

I can call my cousins (we're of mixed race, but I'm basically white and they're basically black) any name under the sun and they can do the same to me and while someone listening might be offended, it isn't offensive to us and so I don't consider it to truly be offensive. But I'd never talk that way with somebody I don't already have that sort of understanding with.

I personally really enjoy offensive humor so I guess I'd be a poor judge of this. Interesting comments from people though.

I'll just leave this here, then: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...hits-top-gear/ * shakes head *

A transcript of the comments in question:

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James May: Have you ever wanted a Mexican sports car?
Jeremy Clarkson: Yes, I have!
JM: It’s good news, because there is one, and here it is [points to display] and it’s called the Tortilla.
JC: It is not – it is not called the Tortilla! What is it?
JM: I can’t remember, it’s something a bit …
JC: So you just made up the name, then, there you go.
JM: I’d forgotten, sorry
Richard Hammond: Why would you want a Mexican car? ‘Cause cars reflect national characteristics. So German cars are sort of very [unintelligible] and Italian cars, a bit flamboyant and quick. Mexican cars just gonna be lazy, feckless, flatulent, overweight, leaning against a fence asleep looking at a cactus with a blanket with a hole in the middle on as a coat.
JM: It is interesting because, they can’t do food, the Mexicans, can they? ‘Cause it’s all like sick with cheese on it.
RH: Refried sick!
JM: Yeah, refried sick.
JC: How much is this Mexican sports car?
JH: The refried Mexican sports car is 33 thousand pounds.
JC: That isn’t enough. It isn’t enough because somebody’s paid for that to be developed and it’s gotta be shipped. That’s 800 quid to the car right there.
JM: You say that, though, but they do say in their blurb it’s got rack-and-pinion steering.
RH: Wow, it’s got steering!
RH: I’m sorry, but just imagine waking up and remembering you’re Mexican.
JC: It’d be brilliant! It’d be brilliant ’cause you could just go straight back to sleep again.
RH: ‘That’s all I’m gonna do all day.’
JC: That’s why we’re not gonna get any complaints about this – ’cause the Mexican embassy, the ambassador’s gonna be sitting there with a remote control like this. [Clarkson slumps in his seat and starts "snoring."] They won’t complain. It’s fine!

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Actually reminds me of certain elements of cyberspace...

Clearly they have no taste whatsoever, if they don't recognize Mexican food as the taste nirvana it is.

That's what I was thinking. How can someone with a tongue in his mouth not like Mexican food? Has all the hate killed their taste buds?

...but I love Top Gear. :c

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Originally posted by RabbitMage

...but I love Top Gear. :c

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:o Rab is a racist! :fishbeat:

Apart from Mexican food tasting terrible, this is one of those jokes they didn't think through carefully.

BTW, they are currently being sued for the comments, although that probably wont go too far and they have apologised for the comments to the Mexican Ambassador.

Still, its better than the joke about lorry drivers murdering prostitutes.

RH: I’m sorry, but just imagine waking up and remembering you’re Mexican.


ahahahah. That's awesome. And to be fair actual Mexican food can be a bit bland. That's why Americans kicked it up a few notches into critical heart burn territory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vAfXNzXueE&feature=related

When reasonable people are hurt.

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Originally posted by Oliveloaf

When reasonable people are hurt.

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I can agree with this, though it's difficult to gauge what's reasonable. And it gets harder when the ones who are actually the subject aren't around, and other people get upset on their behalf when it isn't necessary. As an example, white people getting offended by someone using the term "Eskimo" in reference to Alaskan natives, even though that's the preferred term there.

When it's about you.

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Originally posted by Glazer

When it's about you.

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I don't think I agree with that. Do you have more of a right to be offended if the "joke" is about you and/or yours? Absolutely. But, there are plenty of southern/redneck/white trash, lesbian, or nerd jokes that I find pretty hilarious. Part of it's the intent (which is usually pretty obvious), part of it's the delivery, and then there's the content. Somebody makes a comment about the Blue Collar Comedy guys not getting in the tabloids because the paparazzi don't hit up Myrtle Beach, and I find it pretty amusing. Somebody makes an ignorant comment about how people down here are too stupid/hateful to live, and I get a little ragey.

Marsilia, I do the same thing. It's kind of a "I can insult my brother, but don't you say shit about him" kind of thing.