Is Multiculturalism a failed idea?

Multiculturalism means an acceptance and promotion of multiple ethnic cultures at several levels of society in order to allow people to follow their own religions, customs and practices.

As more people have emigrated around the globe, this has led to an ever increasing mix of ideas and understandings between people.

It seems that the ideal as it was carried out was fine if the world was a booming happy place. But with the global economy worsening and governments becmoing more protective of their own people, it seems multicultural practices are under an increasing spotlight and in some areas it appears that it is now failing.

So, has the idea of a tolerant society able to accept all types failed or is it on hold until the world picks up again.

Should there be a revision of how governments implement social policy with respect to other cultures and should it be changed.

Should people moving to a new country accept the local culture or should they be allowed to keep their own and, if so, how far should they be allowed to go?

What are your thoughts.

Woo boy. This is a tough one. I had to take a lot of classes on multiculturalism in college and because my graduating class was something like 40% Hispanic language was the most common aspect of this we discussed.

I've crossed paths with people who felt that if you came to live in America you should abandon your native language. Not just learn English, but never use your native language again. Using it to speak to other people from the same background, even if it was clearly a private conversation in a language the both of you were more comfortable with, was seen as an insult to the USA. Usually this is directed at Hispanics, though I've heard people complaining about this in regards to immigrants from various Asian countries as well. It was particularly bad when the East Indian family in the small town where I used to live were accused of speaking Spanish to one another instead of English. :dubious:

On the other hand, English as Second Language programs in schools to help integrate young immigrants make sense to me. There's nothing wrong with keeping your heritage alive, but there should be efforts for everyone to be functional members of the larger society.

Beyond those basics, though, you start getting into serious cultural differences that can't be handled with a dictionary or bilingual sign and it gets much more difficult. The fact is that not every culture is going to have the same values or want the same laws. Applying the same civil rights and laws to all people as a blanket rule doesn't solve everything. Somewhere, at some point, a line has to be found between what are acceptable cultural differences and what's too disruptive. Finding that line and not basing it off of bigotry is the hard part.

Has it failed? I think so at this point. It does not appear the West can live with the more Fundamentalist Muslim religions is the primary issue and vice-versa. Somehow other Fundamentalist Religions seem to be able to participate cleanly with Western Democracies. But something about this one we're not ready for yet. On the other hand, the West did not even accept Orthodox Jews until after WWII well. In the US Kennedy being a Roman Catholic was almost as much to overcome to be President as Obama being Black. So we keep taking baby steps forward and maybe a step back now and then but eventually I think we'll get there. I'm sure the English have their own examples.

There is also the newer perceived threat of certain groups populations expanding fast while the dominant European people see their numbers not growing or even declining and worry about losing their influence. It is easier to be a poor person within the dominant society group than to be poor and a minority group it appears to me. So hostility is rising to levels I don't recall since the Great Depression. A lot of this is racism of course, no other word for it.

As to new groups assimilating to the dominant culture, it does make life easier for all concerned, but I am not sure easy is right.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

It is easy to be a poor person within the dominant society group than to be poor and a minority group it appears to me.

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Yeah, I agree with this. Being a poor member of the dominant society isn't really "easy", but it is easier than the alternative. Using the dominant language and culture can get you ahead in life and in some ways I think multiculturalism makes things worse, because it discourages things that have helped minorities integrate in the past.

On rereading my earlier post, I'd like to clarify something. I don't think there should be special, separate laws for people of different cultural backgrounds. But I do think there's the potential for abuse of laws that might privilege the dominant culture and it's something that needs to be watched for. "Everybody can marry whomever they like, so long as they're marrying a member of their own race" or "everyone can vote, if they pass this law designed and administered to only let white people pass" are examples.

As usual, I typoed, that first easy was suppose to easier. If you could change that I would be obliged. It makes a huge difference.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

As usual, I typoed, that first easy was suppose to easier. If you could change that I would be obliged. It makes a huge difference.

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Heh, yes it does. Fixed.

Part of the problem in the UK has been enforced multiculturalism, whereby we have been expected and told to allow other cultures to embrace their heritage regardless of what it is.

In some ways, I don't mind. London is a massive melting point of culture and history and in some parts its great. However, one part I disagree with is when cultures expect to be able to abide by their own laws and culture and expect everyone around them to do likewise. I think the one thing that has to be respected by any incoming culture is the law of the land, regardless of how much you may disagree with it.

It's a paradox in some ways. Living in a large city, you get used to being surrounded by other cultures, other languages, a wide variety of food and other traditions, and it's great. On the other hand, people tend to want to deal with others using the same cultural norms, so there's no discomfort level of not knowing the expectations, and they want to be able to communicate with a shared language. So, I think there's a balance to be struck, and I do think it's possible to respect other cultures while still expecting there to be a common culture, but people have to be willing to compromise. First, people who are already assimilated into the larger culture have to understand that it takes a while to assimilate, and there will always be people who are in the process. Secondly, the newcomers have to understand that an effort to do that is going to be expected.

Multiculturalism can work, but it has to be natural. It seems that some people want to force issues and expect everyone to like it.

To use the burka debate as an example:

Muslim Woman: I want to wear a burka!

Western Person: Well, we kind of frown upon having people going around with their faces covered.

MW- You're oppressing my religious beliefs!

WP- Yes but some members of your religion are pretty keen on the idea of blowing stuff up over here, and it's kind of disconcerting to see someone walking around with their face covered.

MW-You will respect my religion and like it!

So on one had you have the minority culture that just wants to be able to carry on doing what its always done, but on the other you have majority culture saying that isn't how they do things. So who is right and who should have to change?

(I was only using the burka thing as an example. You can substitute bilingual signs, adoption of new holidays, ect.)

For actual multiculturalism to happen, it has to occur naturally. No one bats an eye at the fact there are Italian restaurants all over the place. But I bet if they had stood up one day and said "You know what, we're going to open restaurants in every city and only serve the food of our people and you'll shut up & like it", that might not be the case so much.

I'm not really sure what it means "multiculturalism", the schools in my area are actively multicultural, due to the unpredecented influx of migrants from Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe in recent years. As for my life, I still celebrate Irish (oftentimes Catholic) things with same frequency I've always had and I don't think I've ever done anything "multicultural" other than eat spicy food and listen to spicy music. There are mosques here (although none in my town) and other signs of the panoply of religious beliefs enjoyed by the now varied populace of Dublin and environs. I'm not too sure "native" people here think much of foreigners one way or another other than "they look different to me" and when times are bad economically "THEYTOOKOURJOBBBBBBS!!!!!!!!" If multiculturalism is respecting other cultures, for the most part foreigners here don't really display much of their cultures that seems that at odds with what the vast majority of Irish people get up to. I don't like burqas and all that but I'm not about to start telling people they can't wear them (unless in situations where security or health over-ride cultural sensitivities). Most suburbanites at least I think have a laissez-faire attitude to newcomers, and my basic demand of anybody (local or foreign) is "Don't take the piss" vis-a-vis milking social welfare, crime, being a nuisance etc.

In my eyes, there seems to be a generational shift in the behavior of immigrants in regards to multiculturalism and assimilating to living in a different country. In the old days it felt like when people came to the US (I'm using America as my example since I live there), they would attempt to mimic the local culture while still preserving parts of their own. Now it feels like expect everyone to accommodate them without having to make any changes in their behavior.

An example of this is trash. I mean, everyone knows that trash goes in the trash can outside, or in the case of an apartment complex, the communal dumpsters/trash compactor, right?

The apartment complex I live/work in has a large immigrant population. When I first started working here, people would just leave their trash wherever it was convenient. In the bushes, in the middle of hallways, next to the mail boxes. At first I thought this was strictly people doing it because there were assholes. As time went on and I began confronting various tenants about it, I realized some of them genuinely had no idea what to do with a bag of trash because they had never lived somewhere with regular trash service, let alone seen a communal trash compactor before. Now we make it very clear to every new tenant how they can dispose of their garbage and the problem has been drastically reduced. Now the only people who don't throw their trash where its supposed to go are just assholes.

"THEYTOOKOURJOBBBBBBS!!!!!!!!" is a big part of it and thus it is always worse when the economy is worse. But I think this time it is as if most groups in the US and Europe seemed to have unified into a FEAR that a terrorist is lurking around every corner. This seems to be especially bad in France, Denmark and Sweden from what I have read, I think you're the one that clued me into Sweden The Original An Gadaí. Here in the US it is not as extreme but it is bad and tied to it seems to be the Western Asian BROWN people taking out jobs. Whites, Blacks and Hispanics seem to have collectively confused and jumbled both sentiments together to increase problems.