Zuul, it doesn't work like that

I am sorry to see that you pulled a TubaDiva. It doesn't work like that. You have to accept that this discussion is not only about the ban but also about your conduct during the whole affair.

So I have a few questions:

Is it possible that your moderating standards slip once you are personally affected?

Considering what you suggested to Exy, do you still maintain that you banned him because he harms the board?

Can you see how this leaves you with a slight credibility problem?

I know that you won't like this thread. Lock it, delete it, ban me -- it will help less than you hope.

Frankly, what's irritating me right now is Exy's statement that Zuul wouldn't mind him just using a sock on the board. If it's true, I'm pretty disappointed actually. What the hell would be the point of banning people if all we're going to do is encourage them to create a new account.

Okay, a lesson on TEH INTERNET.

Item 1) Insulting the moderators is generally considered to be a stupid thing to do.

Item 2) Sending abusive PMs to the moderators is really stupid. The reason there aren't specific rules about that is because you would have to be a drooling, shit eating MORON to think you could get away with that.

Item 3) Socks are allowed on the board. He wasn't IP banned. Of COURSE he could come back with a sock. Unless...

Item 4) He comes back with it specifically to cause shit.

The problem with this board is not Zuul. The problem is Exy and people trying to excuse his behavior. The guy is unwelcome on every other board related to this community. It's time to wake up and realize the problem is him. His enablers are only making it worse and dragging an otherwise nice board downward.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Feirefiz

I am sorry to see that you pulled a TubaDiva. It doesn't work like that. You have to accept that this discussion is not only about the ban but also about your conduct during the whole affair.

So I have a few questions:

Is it possible that your moderating standards slip once you are personally affected?

Considering what you suggested to Exy, do you still maintain that you banned him because he harms the board?

Can you see how this leaves you with a slight credibility problem?

I know that you won't like this thread. Lock it, delete it, ban me -- it will help less than you hope.

---

There is no intention to do anything to this thread or the OP.

Zuul was not the only mod to consider what occured and he was banned due to his effect on the board.

From the other thread:

Quote:

---

I think this has gone on long enough.

Conservative/Exy - Your user account was banned. We don't sock hunt as a rule, because there is very little point and no your IP was not banned.

Had you come back as a sock it is unlikely you would have been noticed.

Consider that corrected.

---

Assuming Exy wouldn't be noticed is pretty ridiculous. You expect him to come back to the board pretending to be a new person so as to interact with his friends and chat acquaintences, most of which would know who he is because of off board correspondence? What's the point? If he's allowed here at all, unban the name. Otherwise, to use Zuul's analogy from the other thread, Uncle Charlie is no longer allowed at family BBQs, but if he wears a fake mustache and pretends to be long lost Uncle Bill, well then everything is swell even though we all know the truth.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Taumpy

From the other thread:

Quote:

---

I think this has gone on long enough.

Conservative/Exy - Your user account was banned. We don't sock hunt as a rule, because there is very little point and no your IP was not banned.

Had you come back as a sock it is unlikely you would have been noticed.

Consider that corrected.

---

Assuming Exy wouldn't be noticed is pretty ridiculous. You expect him to come back to the board pretending to be a new person so as to interact with his friends and chat acquaintences, most of which would know who he is because of off board correspondence? What's the point? If he's allowed here at all, unban the name. Otherwise, to use Zuul's analogy from the other thread, Uncle Charlie is no longer allowed at family BBQs, but if he wears a fake mustache and pretends to be long lost Uncle Bill, well then everything is swell even though we all know the truth.

---

Looks to me like his punishment was to lose his account and all of his history under that account, but since the board already allows socks he could come back if he behaved and kept under the radar. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that unless you just want to be part of the outrage machine.

Because so long as everyone knows who he is, his history is not gone. Maybe the mods dont sockhunt, but the snarkers do. For him specifically to have any hope of of being here he would have to do more than "behave", he would have to be someone else entirely. Maybe that would make sense to do that for a message board that was a bustling internet community, but has already been discussed, this one is small and tight knit. It still exists because of the people that are here. Doing it for some hypothetical new posters (newsflash to anyone who hasn't figured this out yet: they ain't coming.) is pointless.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Taumpy

Assuming Exy wouldn't be noticed is pretty ridiculous. You expect him to come back to the board pretending to be a new person so as to interact with his friends and chat acquaintences, most of which would know who he is because of off board correspondence? What's the point? If he's allowed here at all, unban the name. Otherwise, to use Zuul's analogy from the other thread, Uncle Charlie is no longer allowed at family BBQs, but if he wears a fake mustache and pretends to be long lost Uncle Bill, well then everything is swell even though we all know the truth.

---

That could have been Exy's choice.

It's isn't a choice any longer.

Exy is banned from this site, user account and IP address.

Don't worry, I'm sure he will back with a new proxy, new account and pretending to be someone different at some point in the future.

What was the point of this insulting offer? Zuul basically said to Exy, "I like you and want to hang out with you, but only in secret, ok?". That's so gross I can't even put it into words.

Exy would have been recognized by every Mello in five posts or less. If he came back and said he was a Jewish housewife from Kokomo, Indiana and chated about his daughter's Bat Mitzvah, everyone would still know it was him. And you know it, Zuul. So the question is, WHO are you posturing FOR? If it was ok for all of us to know, whose benefit would this asinine charade be? Who is it you're so fucking worried about impressing?

How far was this supposed to go? Were his friends all supposed to pretend not to know him? Would I be allowed to talk to him, or would that give it away? If he talked about linguistics, or shawarma, or hot guys peeing on each other, would that fuck up your game?

I guess the problem was not with Damon's personality or behavior. Apparently everything objectionable about him was all contained in three letters and a picture of an adorable Asian girl.

This so fucking stupid.

Then why do you keep bitching about it? It's pretty obvious that the mods have made their point. Exy is IP banned and they are not letting him come back. Do you REALLY think that your normal levels of vitriol are going to make them change their minds? It's because of people like YOU and Exy that a lot of us just quit bothering with this board in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Xploder

It's because of people like YOU and Exy that a lot of us just quit bothering with this board in the first place.

---

Oh, I see. All that bothering you did with your zero post count.

http://giraffeboards.com/showpost.ph...7&postcount=30

(For those not aware, in the linked post he's refering to the drama where all those on Mello, or maybe it was still Domebo at that point, with a zero post count accidentally got their accounts deleted.)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Taumpy

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Xploder

It's because of people like YOU and Exy that a lot of us just quit bothering with this board in the first place.

---

Oh, I see. All that bothering you did with your zero post count.

http://giraffeboards.com/showpost.ph...7&postcount=30

(For those not aware, in the linked post he's refering to the drama where all those on Mello, or maybe it was still Domebo at that point, with a zero post count accidentally got their accounts deleted.)

---

Actually no. While my Xploder account WAS deleted in that fiasco, I'm actually talking about the five, yes FIVE, other times I tried to post here with different usernames. Every single time, I was run off by Myrna and Exy while trying to participate in chat. It'd be nice if I were just using hyperbole but I'm not. In every single instance, I'd go into chat and EVERY time I'd say something, one of those two would be completely idiotic. After the fifth attempt, I quit trying as it was obvious that the admins/mods didn't care what they did.

Maybe your act was always the same and stupid or maybe or just maybe you are just making shit up. Why does this concern you at this point?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by What Exit?

Maybe your act was always the same and stupid or maybe or just maybe you are just making shit up. Why does this concern you at this point?

---

Right. Being polite was obviously the same and stupid. Then again, according to you, I'm just making shit up so why bother. You wonder why your board doesn't attract members that actually want to stay? In any case, just count me out yet again even though I was HOPING that you guys might have changed.

Quote:

---

Actually no. While my Xploder account WAS deleted in that fiasco, I'm actually talking about the five, yes FIVE, other times I tried to post here with different usernames. Every single time, I was run off by Myrna and Exy while trying to participate in chat. It'd be nice if I were just using hyperbole but I'm not. In every single instance, I'd go into chat and EVERY time I'd say something, one of those two would be completely idiotic. After the fifth attempt, I quit trying as it was obvious that the admins/mods didn't care what they did.

---

Yeah, you're lying, buddy.

I know it's possible I come off as weird internet stalker by pulling that kind of gotcha on you when you and I have never peronally interacted before, but I just have a pretty good memory. And I was around dumbo chat in the early days pretty frequently even though I wasn't a big presence. And while no one will ever accuse Myrna or Exy of never fighting, neither of them was belligerent or unnecessarily catty to new chatters. And I also remember you having plenty of of bad to say about them, and this board over on GB.

So fucking stuff the agenda and if you're gonna make a point, do it honestly.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by CatInASuit

I'm sure he will back with a new proxy, new account and pretending to be someone different at some point in the future.

---

Well, no. That was Zuul's solution to this whole mess, a "solution" he has rejected.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Xploder

I was run off by Myrna and Exy while trying to participate in chat. It'd be nice if I were just using hyperbole but I'm not.

---

Run off by? This is exactly hyperbole. How were you "run off"? It's chat. Respond with equal sass, sit back and watch, or go away. Run off?

Freakin ignore someone if you want. It's not like they can talk over you...It's a message board, for Christ's sake.

If someone passed you a pissy letter in class...what did you do? Well, I suppose we know. Tattler.

Its cool Mr. Loaf. Xploder is not for real. He is a character in someones odd play.

Hmmm. I have crummy seats for this play. I can't see the entire stage.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Myrnalene

Quote:

---

Originally posted by CatInASuit

I'm sure he will back with a new proxy, new account and pretending to be someone different at some point in the future.

---

Well, no. That was Zuul's solution to this whole mess, a "solution" he has rejected.

---

Actually, the solution was to ban him. This sock suggestion, which in my view was misguided and not something I endorse, was I think a way of giving him a chance to make a fresh start (as, actually, anyone who is banned from this board has the opportunity to do). And I'm sure it was made with the best of intentions and not at all meant to be an insult.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarahfeena

Actually, the solution was to ban him. This sock suggestion, which in my view was misguided and not something I endorse, was I think a way of giving him a chance to make a fresh start (as, actually, anyone who is banned from this board has the opportunity to do). And I'm sure it was made with the best of intentions and not at all meant to be an insult.

---

I actually don't think she meant is as an insult, either. It is insulting though, and condescending, and utterly illogical.

Look, Mello has like, 12 posters and like, 7 chaters. There is no "under the radar" here. Anyone who thinks so has this confused with some other board. There would be no way for Exy to hide. He can't even hide a sock at the Dope and that place is busier than this one by several orders of magnitude and he's been gone from there for years.

So, there's a public post made that Exy is BARNED FOREVER and then he shows up in chate again (as a sock that absolutely everyone recognizes) and what the hell was she going to say to the people who weren't in on this little arrangement when they start asking why Exy is back? "It's ok, I know I said he was banned but look I asked him to return, just play along and pretend!" All carried on in sekret chates and PMs because god forbid we address this in public where our neighbors can see.

What? Why? Why?

And Sarah, I did see that you said you didn't endorse this idea, so I'm not asking you, personally, to defend it.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarahfeena

make a fresh start (as, actually, anyone who is banned from this board has the opportunity to do)

---

.....why ban anybody then?

How come people are acting like this is some out of the blue banning? Exy has demonstrated that he cannot or will not follow the rules. How many more second chances do you think he deserves? And if he is allowed back, how long until he has a bad day or has too many drinks and decides to act like a dick again?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Myrnalene

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarahfeena

make a fresh start (as, actually, anyone who is banned from this board has the opportunity to do)

---

.....why ban anybody then?

---

Because most boards don't want a free-for-all, that's why. But that doesn't mean that many boards aren't willing to give someone a second chance to come back under a new name, with a tacit agreement that the board will turn a blind eye and the poster will not exhibit the behavior that got them banned. I'm in agreement with you that in this case it's not a workable thing.

Zuul, over a day and a dozen posts from you later you haven't answered me. If you have no intention of answering or you do but you need more time then please say that.


Just so that we don't waste any time with it, that your decision on Exy is final does not answer any of my questions here.

Fiz, as I felt anything I could possibly post would simply add fuel to the fire I was not going to respond to this thread.

An IP ban is not typically how a ban is handled, so there was nothing unusual in that only his account had been banned before. I was very, very stupid, however. I tried to be both moderator and Exy's friend at the same time. I knew what was good for the board, but as his friend I was very sad about how things turned out. I clearly should have kept my feelings about him leaving to myself. If my moderating standards "slipped" in any way here it was in his favor, not against him. That will not happen again.

Zuul is a victim of the credibility problem of the previous admins. Exy was given a free reign for so long that he believed he could do and say whatever he liked. Each time he was removed from the board he was told that he needed to follow the rules and he refused to do so. When he ran off half the board last November he was told he was on the thinnest of ice and that was it. If Zuul goes back on her word because a few of you sycophants want her to then all credibility is lost.

The moderators and admins made their decision based on his entire history since the board started. Zuul wasn't alone in making the decision so the bullshit question about her moderating abilities slipping because of a personal insult from Exy is nonsense. You can grasp for all the questions you want about why he's not here anymore but the answer is because he chooses not to follow the rules which is no one's fault but his own.

This thread seems like a child asking for a story and a drink of water before bed to drag out the inevitable. Nothing Zuul or the moderators says will make you feel better except to tell you that the drunk is allowed to come back and be an asshole to everyone again. If she does that then the precious credibility you're so worried about really is gone.

Fiz - I'm sorry but your initial questions look very much like a confrontation in hypothetical questions.

Been There Done That - I think your words about Exy are uncalled for. Unless you'd like to explicitly identify your 'past history', because at this time you are qualifying as a troll, since to people like me you've just come out of nowhere to say some uncouth things about someone not present who I also like. That is not to say you are a troll, but I think we all would need a little more elucidation.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Panther Squad

Fiz - I'm sorry but your initial questions look very much like a confrontation in hypothetical questions.

---

Obviously a certain amount of confrontation was intended. I don't consider the way this was handled acceptable and I don't think I have hidden that. It is not only a question of wanting Exy back either.

However those were very real questions that I wanted to see answered.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Zuul

I tried to be both moderator and Exy's friend at the same time. I knew what was good for the board, but as his friend I was very sad about how things turned out. I clearly should have kept my feelings about him leaving to myself.

---

Thank you for your answer. Unfortunately there are some things that i still don't understand.

You say that banning him was good for the board, but you also encouraged him to come back. I don't know how you meant that. Perhaps you were just stringing him along because you couldn't look him in the eyes.
If you meant it, that raises other questions. Who did you expect to be part of this bizarre charade and for whom would they play it?

Take me for example. Did you want me to lie or be lied to?

I think you can see how this didn't leave a very fortunate impression.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Zuul

I was very, very stupid, however. I tried to be both moderator and Exy's friend at the same time. I knew what was good for the board, but as his friend.

---

Because what every friend wants to hear is, "We can still be friends and hang out as long as I keep you my dirty little secret."

Man, some of you guys are being seriously cold. You all have said it yourself...most of us consider this to be a place of friendship, and it's not easy to run it in a reasonably professional manner when you're dealing with people you actually care about. I don't think I'm talking too much out of turn to say that Zuul has been really struggling with this, and although she's solicited input, she knows that in the end it's all coming down on her shoulders. None of us would want to be in her position right now. It's hard enough for me to write this post because I like you all, and consider you my friends. I'm not saying this has been handled perfectly, and perhaps we should have figured it out quicker, but we all wanted to make sure we were doing the right thing, and not be overly influenced by friendship and emotion. If you all can't understand that, I'm sorry, but I don't think Zuul owes you an apology for it.

Well put, Sarah.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarahfeena

Man, some of you guys are being seriously cold. You all have said it yourself...most of us consider this to be a place of friendship, and it's not easy to run it in a reasonably professional manner when you're dealing with people you actually care about. I don't think I'm talking too much out of turn to say that Zuul has been really struggling with this, and although she's solicited input, she knows that in the end it's all coming down on her shoulders. None of us would want to be in her position right now. It's hard enough for me to write this post because I like you all, and consider you my friends. I'm not saying this has been handled perfectly, and perhaps we should have figured it out quicker, but we all wanted to make sure we were doing the right thing, and not be overly influenced by friendship and emotion. If you all can't understand that, I'm sorry, but I don't think Zuul owes you an apology for it.

---

I've been keeping out of this conversation, but mostly this. I haven't been privy to any of the admin stuff or the decision making process, but I have been a shoulder to Zuul through the process. This has been tough. To have a friend attack your identity, have to try and find the appropriate reaction and the line between friend and admin, and then have people you consider friends or at least 'these generally okay people I hang out with on this message board' turn around and say stuff like this? That's pretty fucking awful. Running this board is one of those difficult, thankless jobs. This thread alone would have made me quit.

Myrna, Fiz, etc, what do you want to hear? This wasn't solely Zuul's decision, but an error was made in the original decision, and was admitted to. It's been fixed. What is going to satisfy you, exactly?

I sent Zuul a PM telling her I was heartbroken and begging her to respond to me, because the estrangement with this board (including her) was killing me. ANY kind of response, even "I can't deal with this right now, but I hear you and I'll get back to you." She blew it off, which, I guess, is a kind of response. One that says "I don't give a fuck what you're feeling, my pain is the only one that matters."

If she doesn't give a fuck, I don't give a fuck. Period, end of sentence.

Really, Myrna? Really? It meant "I don't give a fuck," and not...I don't know..."I want to make sure I say what I mean and I can't do it right now"? It didn't mean "This is really hurting me too, and I can't deal with it just yet"? Of course, since you want something to rail against, something to be offended by, it must have been a calculated insult on Zuul's part to not answer your PM in a timely manner.

Or Myrna is overreacting but Zuul really should have replied with something. The agitation level before my thread was high and I was trying to alleviate it. Failed obviously but communication includes a quick note saying something like "give me more time please".

Hey Zuul, sorry to hear things aren't going so well for you. Don't let the milquetoasts and emotional blackmailers push you into doing something you don't believe is right, or believing something about yourself that simply isn't true.

PS When are the next round of moderator elections happening?

Seriously, Jeff? Seriously?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Inner Stickler

Seriously, Jeff? Seriously?

---

Absolutely. I'm a firm believer in the democratic process.

Really? Because right now you look like a firm believer in the being a dick process.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Inner Stickler

Really? Because right now you look like a firm believer in the being a dick process.

---

My apologies. I suppose I should've posted the following instead;

Quote:

---

Hey Zuul, sorry to hear things aren't going so well for you. It's all your fault, the milquetoasts and emotional blackmailers are totally in the right and you should do as they say. You're a terrible awful person.

PS Down with democracy.

PPS Really really really really really awful.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Myrnalene

I sent Zuul a PM telling her I was heartbroken and begging her to respond to me, because the estrangement with this board (including her) was killing me. ANY kind of response, even "I can't deal with this right now, but I hear you and I'll get back to you." She blew it off, which, I guess, is a kind of response. One that says "I don't give a fuck what you're feeling, my pain is the only one that matters."

If she doesn't give a fuck, I don't give a fuck. Period, end of sentence.

---

Myrna, I can see where it might feel that way, but it's not like that. The only way to make a reasoned decision in a situation like this is to remove yourself from other people who have the same emotional stake in it as you do. As you know, I had to remove myself in the same way, and it has nothing to do with not caring about other people's pain, not by a long shot. Should Zuul have gotten back to you in some form or fashion? Sure, I guess she should have. But the fact that she didn't isn't indicative at all that she didn't care, but probably more that she cared too much, about all of it.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1...51f6dd406c.jpg
i say we unban exy before the tension gets too much to BEAR

You owe it to keep Exy of your message board. Get rid of Zuul, you, and bring Exy back. This message board cannot be what it is with out Exy

I'm rarely here and it's because of all this strange and unneccessary shit. I really don't understand all the arguing on a regular basis. I go away for a while, I come back to check and it's more of the same shit.

I really like most of you, but I think it'll be a while before I visit again, because this frustrates me to see over and over and over. I'm sad, since I used to love to be here - now it's not worth it.

I'm sorry you feel that way, jali, we all really like you a lot, too. :(

Jali, in a few months check in again. I think you are pretty much universally liked here.

In a few months?! I demand that jali check in daily! :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Myrnalene

I sent Zuul a PM telling her I was heartbroken and begging her to respond to me, because the estrangement with this board (including her) was killing me. ANY kind of response, even "I can't deal with this right now, but I hear you and I'll get back to you." She blew it off, which, I guess, is a kind of response. One that says "I don't give a fuck what you're feeling, my pain is the only one that matters."

If she doesn't give a fuck, I don't give a fuck. Period, end of sentence.

---

The estrangement was killing you? So you needed a response, any kind of response from Zuul to alleviate all that emotional pain and suffering? Because only Zuul can make you feel better when you're so devastated? Is she the one who ordered the estrangement in the first place, or was that a personal choice you made?

WTF, Myrna? There's so much high school drama in that post it's hard to even parse correctly.

How exactly is any of that rational? Or helping matters? Or making this a place grownups want to hang out?