AARGH

You know, when I chose to go to the college I'm at, one of the reasons I was willing to come here, despite it being a catholic university, was that it's a Benedictine university and if there's one group that's all about social justice, it's the benedictines. The monks watch The Real World for cripes sake, this is not some stodgy conservative backwater.

But Facebook is all abuzz because apparently at the student mass tonight (technically last night but whatever) the priest and eucharistic ministers denied communion to anyone wearing a rainbow flag pin. (The pins are in reaction to the fact that catholic bishops in Minnesota are planning a DVD campaign to get Minnesota voters to ban SSM in the state and this liberal student body is not happy about it.) Anyway, my irritation here is that I came here, among other reasons, because I felt reasonably assured that assy things like this wouldn't happen and now I'm angry because I'm going to have to write letters to the school newspaper and the administration and frankly, I shouldn't have to shame them into being respectful of other people but here we are. sunuvabitch

Ugh, that blows. :(

Unfortunately, there are a lot of lies and a lot of pressure about SSM out there right now. Many people have been led to believe that if it's instituted then religious officials who refuse to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies will be arrested, or their churches will lose their tax exempt status. I'm not saying it's right or smart, but many otherwise social justice minded people have been told that if SSM happens they will lose their religious rights. Keep that in mind when you write your letters, because there may be some lies and misunderstandings you can cast light on.

I don't know how many people remember this thread, but there's been a lot of letterwriting over the subject, in no small part because it coincided with the catholic church's decision to send a DVD detailing why gay marriage is wrong to all the catholics in MN.) There were a lot of letters written to the school newspaper about how shameful the students should feel about politicizing the Eucharist. (An attitude I disagree with strongly. As far as I am concerned, they are merely wearing an outward sign of an opinion they have. No politicization occurs until the communion is denied. So the ones who are doing the politicizing are the church officials.) Anyway, I thought I'd write a response to these letters but I'd like to get more than my opinion on it before I send it in. I'm also a little drunk so I don't want to send in something I'll regret. The Record is the name of the school paper.



Several people have written to the Record in an effort to explain or excuse the archbishop’s actions a few weeks ago when PRISM arrived at a mass wearing rainbow sashes. One letter even went as far as to claim that the true victims were the other students at the mass. Tell that to one of the thousands of teenagers who’ve been physically assaulted for the crime of being gay. I’m sure they’ll be quite sympathetic. Or the 320,000 GLBT youth who experience homelessness, many of whom have been forcibly ejected from their families because they came out. I think that they as well will find the situation comparable. I, for one, am done considering my human and civil rights, my dignity, and full humanity as a subject on which reasonable people can disagree. A bias against GLBT people and their supporters, even one as simple as the archbishop’s reaction, is a homophobic position regardless of how the objection is framed or what religious costumes it is dressed in.

Well, here's one opinion ...

It sounds entirely coherent to me, and I fervently agree with it.

On the other hand, it is never wise to hit the send button when tipsy ... will you miss a deadline if you wait until you sober up to send it? Mind you, I see nothing wrong with it myself (GO STICKY!), but a blanket rule of "no posting/emailing/letter-sending while drunk" is a guideline that everyone should all follow at all times. It's better not to make exceptions, ever.

Also, are you out on campus, and does the university object? As your weird hippy internet grandma, I don't want you personally to suffer as a result of your letter (unless you soberly decide that you are prepared to take the consequences.)

Well, here's one opinion ...

It sounds entirely coherent to me, and I fervently agree with it.

On the other hand, it is never wise to hit the send button when tipsy ... will you miss a deadline if you wait until you sober up to send it? Mind you, I see nothing wrong with it myself (GO STICKY!), but a blanket rule of "no posting/emailing/letter-sending while drunk" is a guideline that everyone should all follow at all times. It's better not to make exceptions, ever.

Also, are you out on campus, and does the university object? As your weird hippy internet grandma, I don't want you personally to suffer as a result of your letter (unless you soberly decide that you are prepared to take the consequences.)

I have til Tuesday if I want it to be in this week edition of the paper, but I also happen to know the editor in chief so I can just be like, "Hey, Kira, wanna be my favorite friend ever?" Plus I'm no longer drunk. I actually started writing it sober and then left it in order to come back with fresh eyes. Unfortunately, I got distracted and also came back with drunk eyes. I am out on campus and the university certainly doesn't object. The school is a Benedictine catholic university but the administration is relatively modern. (I can't think of a single office that doesn't have the rainbow triangle safe space sticker.) I am not worried about my personal suffering but I wonder if the letter is too strong and I should rewrite it into something a little less polarizing. I think the take-away message of this letter is, if you don't automatically support glbt rights, you are a bigot and it's a statement that I believe wholeheartedly but in terms of winning friends and influencing enemies it may be less than helpful.

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Originally posted by Inner Stickler

I think the take-away message of this letter is, if you don't automatically support glbt rights, you are a bigot ...

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Well, yeah. Reality sucks that way. And the people who would be offended by that reality probably aren't going to be persuaded out of their hateful nastiness if you use nicer language.

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Originally posted by Orual

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Originally posted by Inner Stickler

I think the take-away message of this letter is, if you don't automatically support glbt rights, you are a bigot ...

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Well, yeah. Reality sucks that way. And the people who would be offended by that reality probably aren't going to be persuaded out of their hateful nastiness if you use nicer language.

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I wish there was a way to call someone a bigot without them going instantly on the defense. Nice, well-meaning people can be bigots. My parents are bigots. Being a bigot doesn't mean that you are evil or stupid or that you kick puppies.

But it does mean that you have taken humanity and mentally divided it into "those who are worthy" and "those who are not." When it comes to people I interact with, the best thing I can do to combat their bigotry is simply being a normal person and trying to peacefully challenge their assumptions. But when it comes to organizations and people who are not seeing you as an individual, you do have to get a little in their faces.

Those who hide behind their religious beliefs are no less bigoted than the ones who come up with it out of their own internal "squick" factor, BTW. You can be the nicest, kindest, most understanding Christian in the world, but if you see my love as a sin you are a bigot. I don't care if you're loving the sinner and hating the sin. I don't care if you've never used an anti-gay slur in your life. If you are looking at an entire class of people and condemning them for simply living their lives, no matter how gentle your condemnation might be, you are a bigot.

So send the letter as is?

I would, but it all comes down to what you're comfortable with.

Letters to the editor should be strongly worded. The place for diplomacy / winning people over through rationality is in your personal interactions. Let people read your firm language in the paper, and then say to themselves "Wow, Sticky's such a nice guy ... he wrote that? Maybe I need to take this whole gay rights thing a bit more seriously."

I might have pasta for tea tonight. Or potatoes in some form. Fries, maybe.

This thread never had an end did it now? What happened? Was the letter sent? Was a war of changing opinions waged?

I, or rather, my lack of funds, decided I shall have baked beans and noodles for tea tonight. They're chicken flavoured mi goreng, which I haven't tried before. Should be good!

The letter was sent. War was waged. Friends were lost; friends were gained. Equilibrium was re-attained.

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Originally posted by Inner Stickler

The letter was sent. War was waged. Friends were lost; friends were gained. Equilibrium was re-attained.

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A stanza from an epic poem!

Why thank you.

Mostly it was a bit of an echo chamber. Everyone agreed the behavior was rude and crass but people mostly shrugged their shoulders and said "what can you do?"

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Originally posted by Inner Stickler

Why thank you.

Mostly it was a bit of an echo chamber. Everyone agreed the behavior was rude and crass but people mostly shrugged their shoulders and said "what can you do?"

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Am I right in thinking "STRAIGHT people mostly shrugged their shoulders and said 'what can you do?'"

An unfortunate aspect of much injustice is that those not directly affected by it find it much easier to be philosophical about.

Hatshepsut, not necessarily. I've known a lot of queer people who are ambivalent or outright hostile toward SSM. They view it as a way to try to fit into the heteronormative paradigm instead of existing outside of it, which is apparently preferable. SSM glorifies monogamy and domesticity and is largely oriented toward making it easier to raise children. Not bad things in my view, but there are some people who are downright angry at the idea of it. Others have no real desire to ever settle down, so don't care either way and get annoyed that all of our energy is being poured into something they view as useless.

My favorite is when the ambivalent LGBT people get really angry at straight people who support SSM, because even though they don't care about it they feel it's patronizing and insulting for straight people to support SSM.

Basically, everybody has the potential to be an utter fucktard.

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Originally posted by Peeta Mellark

Basically, everybody has the potential to be an utter fucktard.

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Sadly, you are right.