Is atheism an act of faith in itself?

Read off the back of a newspaper today.

There is no proof either way that a god does or does not exist.

So you cannot say for certain that a god does or does not exist.

Seeing as it is an act of faith to say that a god exists, it means that it is also an act of faith to say that a god does not exist.

and so it follows that being an athiest means following an article of faith as well. ie. athiests follow the religion of no god.

Can anyone explain if this is accurate or if it falls down somewhere and why I now have a picture of a god in box with a decaying isotope.

If it's an act of faith, then so is not believing in invisible pink unicorns. This misuse of the concept of faith is very common, though. It doesn't refer to blindly believing without evidence, but in trusting and being steadfast. If you have faith in your partner, you trust them and you give them the benefit of the doubt, but you don't sit there watching them have an affair and then nod and say, "I have faith he's monogamous!" Oddly, this argument most often comes from people who consider themselves theists and they don't seem to grasp the insult they're doing to their own faith by making it. Religion is more than believing things without evidence. Most of the people of faith I know find the evidence for their beliefs in their hearts, while atheists find a lack of empirical evidence a perfectly logical reason to not believe.

There are ways in which a certain type of atheist is like a certain type of religious person, but the faith issue is certainly not one of them. There are atheists who are just as self-righteous and arrogant in their lack of belief as a hardcore Southern Baptist is in his beliefs, but to call what they have in common faith instead of "irritating dickishness" isn't accurate.

It seems like it to me but I know many strong atheist bristle at this statement. I don't know if God(s) exist or not. But to call Atheism a religion seems to be twisting the meaning of the word religion.

ETA: Seeing Zuul's answer, it depends, if Faith = Belief then Atheism is a form of Faith. If it includes a religious component then I can agree that Atheism is not Faith.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

ETA: Seeing Zuul's answer, it depends, if Faith = Belief then Atheism is a form of Faith. If it includes a religious component then I can agree that Atheism is not Faith.

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I don't personally view accepting the logical explanation for something to be a matter of belief. I don't "believe" that there are no fairies in my attic. I have no evidence there are fairies in my attic and so have no reason to believe. It's a non-issue.

However, if the word faith is being used in a specifically Judeo-Christian context, then it's doubly wrong to apply it this way. The Hebrew words translated as "faith" did not match the "belief without evidence" definition. A couple of different words and concepts were distilled down to what the Bible in English translations calls "faith." The words were usually used to describe relationships between people and actions (being faithful toward someone, not just having faith in them), not facts. For example, "aman" referred to support, like "the arms of the father supporting the child." Another word, "batah", was closer to "to rely upon", "having confidence in" or "to trust." In Hebrew, to have faith in God doesn't mean "I believe in God" but, "I will do whatever I can to support him" (aman) and "I trust God" (batah). Belief and evidence don't factor in, because it's about a relationship.

How does faith and belief apply as concepts in non Judeo-Christian religions.

Is faith still an applicable term and mean anything in, for example, Buddhism?

No. Atheism is the default position for non-believers.

You're suggesting that an equal amount of faith is required to subscribe to the theory that an all-powerful controlling entity governs stuff, and that one doesn't.

Look at this way: If you haven't given the topic much thought, you're like an atheist. Not a lot of faith involved.

Also: You're suggesting that anyone who takes a position (God, no God, or, I suppose, no Gods) is by definition demonstrating "faith".
Most Atheists I know regard religion as rather silly, and don't linger on the topic. Hardly a spiritual--or faith-based--position.

I think it's not. It doesn't require faith to not believe in something that you have no reason to think exists.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I think it's not. It doesn't require faith to not believe in something that you have no reason to think exists.

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Geez. Way to cut to the core of the matter.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I think it's not. It doesn't require faith to not believe in something that you have no reason to think exists.

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But that is just it, for me, I can't be sure there is no God. I doubt it but I am not sure. It does not rise to the level of ridiculous that some other beliefs do. I am a big fan of the IPU argument but Science is constantly adjusting world view and occasionally in big ways. FTL is impossible in physics except for several odd possibilities. That we humans will have achieve FTL is extremely unlikely. I think I place God in that category. Or at least that we'll ever find proof of God's existence if God actually exists.

To declare and believe "God does not exist" seems too simple to me when there is so much we do not know and understand. Not on the level of creationism, but still a leap of faith is you will.

It seems like even Einstein was close to my viewpoint, he clearly did not think any religion had it right but he also seemed to entertain the possibility of a divine being.

I leave open the idea of Ghosts and ESP as possible but improbable and thus if I leave the possibility of God.

Faith is more like a gut feeling than a considered system of thought, to this non-believer in any form of organised religion. I understand what faith is supposed to mean, but I can't think of a time in my life when I've experienced it, and certainly not in anything like the detail that is necessary to believe there is an eternal being that cares what we are doing here within this tiny pocket of existence. To me, at least, for someone to accept it as a reliable truth in their life, it requires a lot of wishful thinking and as much as I like to keep in touch with my inner child, this is one fantasy I have given up hope on. Not that there was a lot of hope along these lines, anyway.

I use to have a little faith in a few things. That the Red Sox would lose. 2004 shattered that. That the US overall wore the White Hat*. Bush/Cheney and their little War in Iraq to line Dick's pockets finished that off for me.

Yea, I know it was not without stains here and there but overall I thought we tried to do right. The War for Haliburton ended my faith in this though. If you ever wondered why I hate Cheney so much, this is the heart of the reason.

Well for this to have any real meaning first we have to define “god”.

If we mean the Judeo-Christian concept of a omniscient and omnipotent supernatural entity who acts with conscious and purpose over his creation……..well that’s what most atheists are defining when they state that they don’t believe in god since in the western world that’s what most of us had defined to us as what god is when we were young.

When we stretch the definition to “The things in the world around us to which we cannot give explanation or definition to” then god becomes sort of a meaningless concept, because some vague ontological abstract isn’t able to be readily defined and therefore is worthless as a debatable concept since no two people will agree on what comprises that definition exactly and, at least to me, becomes not deserving of any sort deification and therefore a poor construct for the use of the word “god”.

I may revel in wonderment, but I’m not going to sacrifice any chickens to it or put on nice clothes to go talk to other people who sometimes feel all fuzzy inside when looking in a telescope. If you say that you don’t believe in god but you believe in neat stuff that you’ve decided to file away under “god” in your mind you’re just reaching for something to bandage the psychological wound left behind when you did realize that there wasn’t any god in the first place. That’s why agnosticism is such weak sauce. To throw up your hands and declare that after giving something a lot of thought your best idea is “I don’t know” you’re failing your own intellectual accomplishments. Either admit that you need that concept in your life or admit that you’ve stared into the abyss and the fact that there’s nothing there doesn’t bother you at all.

No, not really, I have no longing for God. I cannot remember what it was like to believe in God. I stopped believing when I was little. I left the Church when I was 8 afterall. I am sure my belief was gone before that. I may never have had a belief in God as I also cannot really remember believing in Santa either. For me God is more of a Sci-Fi/Fantasy type concept. It is not a comfort or anything else, just a big ? I don't think about very often.

I am pretty much sure the Judeo-Christian God is a poor interpretation at best. I find it likeliest there is no being(s) guiding or creating our universe or the multiverse for that matter.

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Originally posted by CatInASuit

Seeing as it is an act of faith to say that a god exists, it means that it is also an act of faith to say that a god does not exist.

and so it follows that being an athiest means following an article of faith as well. ie. athiests follow the religion of no god.

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If atheism is a religion, then a theist has to believe in two mutually opposed religions simultaneously. Regardless of whether they believe in a single god or many gods, at the same time they also have faith that other gods do NOT exist.

If a theist expresses disbelief in Zeus or Odin or Quetzacoatl or the Spider Goddess, they are following the religion of atheism. From this we may conclude that everybody is an atheist.

Atheism is by definition lacking faith in any god(s). So the complete lack of faith is not faith. To suggest it is, I'm sorry, but it's assinine. Zero cannot equal greater than zero.

Is atheism an act of faith in itself?

No.

Reasons like the very discussion of the issue is why I choose to call myself an 'unbeliever'. If there is a vote on whether you do or do not believe in God I choose to abstain as I do not even find it worth voting on or taking a position. Why does it matter?

Although when people ask this question I think it's just a way of trying to get someone to accept the possible concept of an implicit belief in the Rightness of their chosen Religion. Which is strange since the believers are so divided and the unbelievers are so not.

I can't even wrap my mind around the concept of "the religion of no God." To me, it implies that people believe atheists are active in their unbelief (are there regular meetings where we stand around and discuss how much we really don't believe in God) or that believers are as passive as atheists (and that might be true for some but not all).

I don't have faith that there's no God. It's not a belief I have to cultivate and nourish. I don't need to have weekly meetings with like-minded individuals to secure my place within the institution of non-belief, and thus, within the larger community. I really wonder why some believers have such a hard time wrapping their minds around the fact that the act of believing without evidence is not the same as the act of not believing in the face of no evidence.

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Originally posted by pepperlandgirl

...it implies that people believe atheists are active in their unbelief...

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Heh, yes. I mean, I guess there are people who sit around worrying about it actively, but for most I think it's just a non-issue. There's no reason to believe, so they don't.

However I am active in my non belief, in much the same way as Dawkins or Hitchens is active in their non belief. I’m more than willing to discuss it, I label myself as an outspoken unrepentant atheist even in the face of strenuous objection from both friends and family, and I will cleverly insert seeds of doubt into conversations that touch on aspects of religion in day to day life. There isn’t a gospel and there sure as hell isn’t an ulterior motive, I simply denounce organized religion as frankly as I’d denounce foot pads that claim to pull toxins out of your body or pills guaranteed to make your dick bigger. Charlatanry is the enemy of all informed and intelligent people.

I try not to talk to people about churches. The more I talk about it the more likely I will say something that will offend them. I also have a really dim view of creationist and those that believe in the 6000 year old earth and that incredible silliness.

I believe that a lot of people believe. So I have faith in the faithful.

Atheism is not an act of faith.

Unless you define "faith" so broadly that everything is an act of faith.

On an unrelated note, my favourite hobby of mine is not collecting antiques.