Would you eat cat or dog?

I remember having a big argument with someone before about dog eating. They were adamant that eating a dog or cat was a COMPLETELY different thing to eating a pig or a sheep or a cow. It made me realise that a lot of people don't really experience farm animals, nor realise that these animals aren't all that different to cats or dogs. Urban and suburban people usually don't encounter livestock. Anyway, I was wondering, who here would eat cat or dog. Would you try it just out of curiosity? Would it be a complete no-no or only in an extreme, emergency situation?

Ehh, meat's meat. Bring it on.

I will not and I do suffer from cute eating issues. I don't really eat anything but the basics, Chicken, Cow and Pig. I very rarely have lamb. I had Rabbit once and Gator once.

I don't claim I am rational about this but eating cats and dogs is wrong to me. Why, just because. :)

This attitude annoys me.

You either eat meat--and are cool with eating animals--or you're not.

Folks who eat beef should not have a big issue with eating horse.

Folks who eat chicken really shouldn't balk at eating squab or pigeon.

I can't eat meat at all because I'm not cool with the notion that some animals are cool to kill for my sustenance and some are not.

The way I see it, if you eat cow, why not eat dog or monkey or hamster.

And if you stutter before eating any animal, maybe you shouldn't be eating animal at all.

I'm not going to claim any kind of rational basis, I'll just note that almost all cultures have taboos about what meat is good for eating. Most cultures don't really have a notion of "pets" but I suspect that in the ones that do people don't eat the same species they keep as pets.

Plus for no rational reason at all both sound "dirty" to me.

Who would have thought exy wouldn't want to eat pussy?

I would try it if there was a good reason, I think. I never quite got the outrage that people in, say, China, eat cat & dog. I mean, it's a different culture, they do things differently, and I don't think that there's some kind of moral highground when it comes to certain species.

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Originally posted by Sarahfeena

I would try it if there was a good reason, I think. I never quite got the outrage that people in, say, China, eat cat & dog. I mean, it's a different culture, they do things differently, and I don't think that there's some kind of moral highground when it comes to certain species.

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Cute and lovable are bad reasons to kill or not kill.

Well, let's take it to the natural conclusion: Provided there's no murder involved, what's wrong with cannibalism, then? It's just meat, right?

I disagree with your conclusions, Oliveloaf. Emotional reactions can matter. I'm not one of those idiots who thinks that it's utterly horrible than some nations/cultures do view dogs (and to a lesser degree, cats) as meat animals. So long as no one is kidnapping family pets for that, I'm not about to condemn the practice. That doesn't mean that I'm about to eat dog, or cat, outside of starvation situations.

I'm not framing it as a moral issue, because I don't see eating nominal pet animals as a moral issue. It's simply my own emotional reaction. I happen to like dogs more than I do most people. Is it rational? Nope. Are you going to change my mind? Nope.

BTW, before you claim that I lack experience with livestock, I should mention I spent a couple years as an animal science major, helping to care for pigs, sheep and cattle. I am familiar with them, and the next time I encounter any personality from a sheep or a cow it will be the first time.

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Originally posted by Oliveloaf

Cute and lovable are bad reasons to kill or not kill.

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Why?

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Originally posted by Oliveloaf

Cute and lovable are bad reasons to kill or not kill.

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I see your point. On the other hand, it's difficult to go against one's cultural norms. And, since it's a cultural norm in our society to have actual relationships with dogs and cats, I think it's reasonable to think it's a bit creepy to go against that norm. If the folks in China don't have that cultural norm, it doesn't have that creep factor.

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Originally posted by OtakuLoki

Well, let's take it to the natural conclusion: Provided there's no murder involved, what's wrong with cannibalism, then? It's just meat, right?

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Well, the problem is this: There is always murder involved. We just call it slaughter, or meat processing.

And I don't find your exaggeration completely absurd. If you balk at killing anything, think twice before killing at all.

I wont lie and say I value the life of a hamster as much as your life. But I do place an high value on life in general.

It would be very hard to argue that any American needs meat. If you accept that, then you accept that eating meat is a fairly capricious act.

We are trapping/raising and slaughtering animals--lives--because we can, not because we need to.

I think that the fact that some people recognize some animals as too "human" to eat is a good sign. That attitude will eventually trickle down to "lesser" animals.

If I were in a place where it would be culturally offensive to refuse it if offered, yes. If I were starving? Yes. Otherwise no.

Aside from the "but it's a pet!" argument, I've always heard that the meat of carnivores tastes pretty awful.

I don't know pig tastes pretty good and they are an omnivore. The gator was not to my taste but I know people that love it and bear.

As to not eating meat, well at this point that is not going to happen. Cows, Chickens and Pigs exist to be eaten. Cats and Dogs exist to be our companions in this part of the world. It seems simple to me. Very few chicken would be alive if we were not eating them. Even less pigs.

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Originally posted by OtakuLoki

BTW, before you claim that I lack experience with livestock, I should mention I spent a couple years as an animal science major, helping to care for pigs, sheep and cattle. I am familiar with them, and the next time I encounter any personality from a sheep or a cow it will be the first time.

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I have no experience with livestock, so you've got me there.

Lot's of horses, though. And horses have personalities and intellects as varying and complex as people do.

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Originally posted by RabbitMage

Aside from the "but it's a pet!" argument, I've always heard that the meat of carnivores tastes pretty awful.

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I've heard that too, but I've also read that hunter/gatherer tribes kill carnivores and herbivores indiscriminately and don't have a problem with eating carnivore flesh. (Many, if not most of the fish we eat in the west are carnivorous, for that matter.) I wouldn't know, I've never eaten a carnivorous mammal. I've read that lion steak is actually quite good, though.

What I think is the usual anthropological explanation for why agriculturalists don't eat carnivores is that it's just inefficient. In general, each step up the food chain reduces the biomass by 10%. There's 10% as much cow (by mass) as there is grass, and if you rely on something that eats cow, there's only 10% as much of that as cow. If we tried to raise lions, they'd take up ten times as much land -- to grow the herbivores we'd be feeding them -- as the same amount of meat if we just ate herbivores directly.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

As to not eating meat, well at this point that is not going to happen. Cows, Chickens and Pigs exist to be eaten. Cats and Dogs exist to be our companions in this part of the world. It seems simple to me. Very few chicken would be alive if we were not eating them. Even less pigs.

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Linda McCartney used to pitch vegetarianism as an environmental issue--as do a lot of folks.

She argued that livestock hugely taxes the environment, and that--of course--there is livestock only because we eat it.

As cows are chickens are completely domesticated, you're right--if we all went veg, why would we raise these things?

Turn them loose and they're prey.

Actually I have seen studies that environmentally factory farming of chickens is less stressful to the enviroment than the importing of fruits and vegatables from South America and other far away places. Also the farming down in many parts of the world is at the expense of Rain Forests and not just for Cattle. So if we grew all of our produce locally I would agree with Linda, but as we do not come close to this, I always found it to be one of PETAs lies wrapped in a partial truth.

Of course the worst thing we do is import foreign meat. This I would agree we should stop. That is a double hit on the environment.

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Originally posted by Exy

Why?

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Well, first of all, if we were starving on a life raft, I'd be the first to
be sacrificed.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Actually I have seen studies that environmentally factory farming of chickens is less stressful to the enviroment than the importing of fruits and vegatables from South America and other far away places. Also the farming down in many parts of the world is at the expense of Rain Forests and not just for Cattle. So if we grew all of our produce locally I would agree with Linda, but as we do not come close to this, I always found it to be one of PETAs lies wrapped in a partial truth.

Of course the worst thing we do is import foreign meat. This I would agree we should stop. That is a double hit on the environment.

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Interesting. I don't know enough about the ecological aspects of it--which is probably somewhat hypocritical of me.

I can see how schlepping perishable fruit around would be a carbon-footprint problem.

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Originally posted by Oliveloaf

Well, first of all, if we were starving on a life raft, I'd be the first to be sacrificed.

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Oh hell, if it comes down to eat human flesh or perish, I'll be the first to be sacrificed. I won't do it so I might as well let the less squeamish have at it.

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Originally posted by Oliveloaf

Interesting. I don't know enough about the ecological aspects of it--which is probably somewhat hypocritical of me.

I can see how schlepping perishable fruit around would be a carbon-footprint problem.

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Don't worry it is not hypocritical, it is just a really huge issues with a lot of false information from both sides. Also a lot of information to sift through to get the truth. In an ideal world we could grow very locally a balanced mixed of produce that could carry us year round and provide a safe diet. The reality has a lot of shades of gray.

I eat a lot of chicken and yet deep down I dislike the factory aspect of chicken farms. That is truly being hypocritical. :)

For-the-record, I find PETA a disturbingly vulgar group.

The FOX News of the animal rights crowd.

I didn't even know this was an argument. I'm portuguese and we eat 'pets' like goat and rabbit all the damn time. My mother has a pet rabbit and we love him, but don't think I won't be ordering coelho at Cafe Portugal if it's on special.

I think it's just not something people think about since cats and dogs don't produce that much meat and take more effort to raise. Meanwhile you can toss a rabbit and a goat on your fenced in lawn and they will grow AND keep your grass a bit trimmed at the same time with little effort. The animals we farm aren't farmed because they're not pet-friendly, but because they're the most convenient to raise and slaughter.

Especially since pigs are generally more gentle, sociable, and smarter than dogs when raised and trained by people.

double post.

I mentally balk at eating 'pet' animals, but I would eat it if it were offered to me, I suppose.

I've eaten baby goats, lambs, and calves, so I don't really have the 'cute animal' leg to stand on.

Well, over here in whatever country this is, rabbits are at least an unusual pet, as well as an unusual food. And no one here would think of goats as a pet. (Americans won't eat those either for the most part. We're finicky. But I have to say the curry goat at the Jamaican restaurant downtown is fantastic.)

But yeah, I agree. I think most of the reason we eat one thing and not another has to do with how easy it is to raise and feed.

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Originally posted by Exy

But yeah, I agree. I think most of the reason we eat one thing and not another has to do with how easy it is to raise and feed.

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This is the primary reason we don't eat our young--the economics just don't work.

The best we can hope for is to be cared for by them in our old age, even then it's expensive, what with feeding, clothing and educating.

Really, it would be cheaper just to save up for old age and swap the kids at a young age for reliable transportation or new bowling gear.

Also, from what I've observed of pregnant women, they eat way, way more extra food than the 6-8 pound baby they squeeze out. It's just not efficient to eat babies.

I have eaten dog before. When I was in Korea, and knowing my love for hole in the wall type restaurants, I figured it was inevitable. So I went out of my way to try some, it wasn't to bad. I do like most game meat but mostly I just eat the big three: chicken, beef and pork.

My only moral objection to eating meat is when the animal in question is either endangered or above a certain intelligence threshold. In practise, all this means is I probably wouldn't eat whale or turtle.

I'ma ctually kind of curious about dog and cat,a nd would gladly eat some. I don't expect it to be good meat, though, but hey.

I've eaten cat, and it's not too bad. Funny, I'm allergic to cats (the saliva or something) but eating it was no problem.

I had a bunch of Koreans living with me several years back. Some of them were trying to convince me to eat dog. I just can't do that. Not logical/rational/whatever, just how it is (for me).

I'd eat dog in an instant and will actively seek to eat it if I'm in an area where it's common.

Carnivores, on the other hand, aren't considered very tasty. I'd probably still eat a bite of cat out of curiosity if it's offered to me.

I'm going to make one of my typical unsubstantiated statements and say that eating meat isn't what made us homo sapien, unless someone can provide conclusive evidence otherwise. If professional athletes can be competitive on a vegan diet, it seems obvious to me that it isn't a necessity for survival, and the only reason we eat it is out of habit. Again, unless you can convince me otherwise.

Unless the animal was full of toxic substances and I stood a chance of becoming ill or dying from eating it, there are few critters I wouldn't try at least once. I found cat to be unpleasant and unless we're talking about a special vegan dog raised on pineapple juice I'm betting that would be similar, so neither is ever going to be a favorite meat.

Generally in Western Society we tend not to eat Carnivores. I think that's a big part of it. I don't know what it means necessarily, biologically or culturally, but outside of fish, we don't eat carnivores. Tuna is probably the most common carnivore eaten by Americans.

As for horse, the reason Americans are against eating horse meat is that for a very long time the demand for horses far exceeded the supply, so the value of a horse as a pack animal far outweighed its value as meat.

There also seems to be a tendency to eat less intelligent animals. We don't observe much intelligence in a shrimp or a cow. A cat and a dog are far more intelligent than either. Though, I hear pigs are pretty smart.

I find the notion of 'not being around livestock' to be dubious. Cows and Sheep are REALLY REALLY REALLY dumb and I grew up around both. Horses, Cats and Dogs are all much smarter.

There are also probably reasons due to logistical concerns regarding animal husbandry. We eat the animals that have the greatest ratio of value to effort expended acquiring it.

That being said, I don't think I'd want to eat cat, dog or horse. I don't particularly like gamey animals such as deer and elk or rabbit. The lower body fat percentage of wild animals gives the meat a much stronger taste.

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Originally posted by Tinker

I find the notion of 'not being around livestock' to be dubious. Cows and Sheep are REALLY REALLY REALLY dumb and I grew up around both. Horses, Cats and Dogs are all much smarter.

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I don't think their intelligence really comes into it. We anthropomorphise cats and dogs, lending human like agency to their actions, and thus are more sympathetic, if you've never been around a cow or a sheep you won't but I've observed behaviour in cattle that seemed like the rudiments of personality. My cousin who farms cattle once had a pet cow, she was also saying that the cows display personality and have favourites amongst humans. I doubt a cow could ever be a replacement for a cat or a dog in a western household as a pet but I really think a lot of meat eaters can't possibly imagine that the animals they eat might display behaviours that would be, for want of a better term, endearing.

Was her pet cow the one that they ate last?

People can form attachments to lizards and spiders; we're strange like that. If you actually cared about the animal's well-being - prior to their being sent off for slaughter, of course - anyone with half an imagination would be bound to find endearing traits in the animals they are around.