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I haven't ventured far into the serious parts of this board, so I hope this is the right forum for this thread.
Anyhoo, my friend (a Buddhist) is recommending I 'convert'. I've always had great respect for Buddhism, as it seems to be non-violent and positive. But I just can't seem to shake the idea that perhaps I'd be a shit practioner. I'm kind of on the precipice. Your thoughts, plz!
Well, what does it offer that you cannot just do on your own? Does converting involve going to a temple and ceremonies and tithing? Do you look at it as an additional social outlet? Is it worth it?
I can't imagine doing it myself, but I can see the social aspect of it.
Well, if Buddhism is correct, you'll have a chance to practise it in another life when you're ready, right?
So if you have reservations now, I'd say don't do it.
All organized religion belongs in the "Bad idea" file. If you feel a need to worship and express yourself spiritually then just do what seems right to you and don't follow anyone elses examples.
What kind of Buddhist?
The Anglosphere has this rather goofy view of Buddhism, as some sort of happy hippie religion. The fact is that it is just another spiritual path, with its own restrictions and expectations. Buddhists can go to war and break the law and ignore the Noble Eightfold Path just as easily as the Abrahamic religions can ignore the Ten Commandments.
Orual's question about what kind of Buddhism is a good one to consider, because they are different and there would be different ways it would influence you and your life.
Child of a Buddhist checking in here. :sci:
I agree with Zuul that you should be aware that there are as many flavors of Buddhism as there are any other religion; it is not a homogenous whole at all. One thing that they generally have in common, though, is that you don't really have to convert per se. You can study, listen, meditate/pray, and decide whether or not it works for you, and in many cases you can take or leave parts of it as suits you. Like a spiritual salad bar.
I would suggest that you dip your toes in the water, maybe even take a few steps into the shallow end of the pool. It isn't going to hurt anything.
Yeah, OK. I wasn't talking about the 'cult' side of it, more what OCS said. There's no *official* confirmation or anything, just deciding to try 'the path'. It all sounds good to me, except the way it talks about anger - that's it's merely a delusion. Can't really get me noggin around that one. I'm completely against the rigidness of any organised spiritual group, which is why Buddhism appeals to me. Guess I'll keep reading the literature, and get back to y'all. Peace be with you and all that crap. :)
Well yeah, the thing about Buddhism is that you don't have to convert, or go to a Buddhist temple, or anything. You just...do Buddhist stuff, like following the Eightfold Path and meditating. It seems to fit well with other beliefs, as well...there are a lot of Jewddhists, for example. Buddhism doesn't necessarily include any beliefs about deity.
Yeah, as accepting as Buddhism is of other beliefs, I don't think they really fit together, coz , for example, Christianity doesn't accept 'Buddhists'. But yeah, it seems harmless enough, and if I don't like it, I can just ditch it. :sci:
Wait. . huh? I haven't read that before. I've listened to the Dalai Lama talking about anger. They sometimes say that you should work on eliminating it because it's a negative emotion that brings you pain, but I don't think it's a delusion. It's a very real emotion. And some people work all their lives to keep that very real emotion from having a negative impact on their lives.Quote:
Originally posted by spitz
It's only been two weeks, but how are you liking it so far? I've been reading a number of books by Buddhists and enjoy them very much. But I like reading stuff about religions.
Yeah, Roo, I agree with what you said. But the literature I'm reading now (possibly the WRONG stuff) is describing anger, jealousy et al as 'delusions'. I think that's a bit harsh, and silly. If someone hurt one of the kids I work with, for example, I would be justifiably angry. So yeah, maybe I'm just reading the wrong literature.
I could almost become a Buddhist (I think, based on what I know now; I'd educate myself a lot more before I took the step of saying I'd become one). But I'm not going to, because either I'd have to give up alcohol or be a less-than-obervant, Buddhist wannabe who drinks. Neither option appeals. The funny thing is, I know plenty of Moslems who drink, and I don't think of them as hypocritical or wrong in any way. But for me - I couldn't say "hey, I'm a Buddhist now!" with a straight face while sipping a glass of wine. Is it sad that I'm so fond of drinking that I wouldn't give it up for religious reasons? Maybe, but on the list of "things I worry about in my life," it's pretty far down.
Are you doing any medidating, spitz?
Medidating? I do some mediCating! I meditate in a Western kinda way... I don't cross my legs and put flowers in my hair. But I do meditate.
Hatsheput, I also drink, and am not the least bit concerned about being a hypocrite. I don't think 'being a Buddhist' is as life-changing as becoming a Christian or Muslem. I see it as a set of tools to improve your self and your life. I've read that some forms of Buddhism have those clingy, church-like conditions attached, but I focus on the actual teachings.
Quote:
Originally posted by OneCentStamp
Spelling is for communists.
:lol:Quote:
Originally posted by Orual
I always find it fascinating to read about Buddhism as practiced in Asia with the hippie "Buddhism" practiced here in the USA. Over there it's an actual religion, complete with idol-worshiping, various historical instances of religious wars and forced conversions, praying for material shit, and so forth -- all the stuff that Westerners blame Christian churches for. Here it's this totally unchallenging hippie idea, a set of concepts that already conveniently match the ideas that liberal Westerners already espouse, with the convenient additional fact that it's totally acceptable to ignore any part of it that's even vaguely inconvenient for you.
Also the inevitable stupid Free Tibet bumper sticker.
FTR, I hate bumper stickers.
Just because it's a useful set of tools, doesn't mean I have to use every single thing in the toolbox.
But it's not a toolbox. It's a philosophy, or a religion. That's something totally different from a toolbox.Quote:
Originally posted by spitz
I don't know, I guess it just sort of annoys me that people want to take a very modern (and frankly, to my eyes, very shallow) western philosophy and pretend it's somehow the same as a religious tradition stretching back thousands of years. If you aren't interested in the actual practices and beliefs of those people, why are you appropriating their name? I just don't see the point, and it seems sort of disrespectful of people who have, you know, actual beliefs.
Considering that the entire nation of Japan has no problem picking and choosing from their grab-bag of Buddhist and Shinto beliefs - don't see how the Western approach is so much worse. Especially considering that Buddhism came to Japan in their "let us slavishly imitate everything China does, for their civilization is the epitome of refinement" period.Quote:
Originally posted by Exy
And while there are many hippie flakes in the world, there are also people undertake a study of the religion seriously.
There are?Quote:
Originally posted by Orual
Well, if it annoys you Exy, I won't do it. I'll live my life by a set of principles you agree to...
I started this thread to get people's opinions on Buddhism, not to be accused of being disrespectful to 'old-school' Buddhists. If it annoys you, fine. Everyone gains their sustenance differently, and not necessarily in a way YOU would approve of.
Well, duh. You don't have to do anything I'd approve of. There's, as yet, no law that your actions have to meet with my approval.
I saw that former pupil of the Dalai Lama about a month ago. She was cool. She removed all the preconceptions and stereotypes, and explaine dthings so anyone could understand/grasp them. I'm attending another Buddhist fuction (not sure what to call it) on Tuesday.
It would be interesting to hear how that goes
At the heart of Buddhism is the desire to quiet the reactive mind. If you desire to do that, you're probably already a Buddhist. Once you get over your desire to quiet the reactive mind, you're a Buddha. ;)
I'd also be interested to hear how your Buddhist meeting goes, spitz.
As would I.
Well, I attended the Buddhist thing. The mind stuff was very interesting, but some of the 'rebirth' stuff threw me a bit. Also, the monk seems disturblingly interested in money and the nice things money can buy :(
Somehow, I didn't think money played that important a role in Buddhism
I don't think you can keep the lights on in the Buddha hall with the power of chanting.
This is true. But from what I saw, the desire for money/material things went beyond the need to pay bills.Quote:
Originally posted by Orual
Aww, that's a bummer.Quote:
Originally posted by spitz
A bit late to the party but here it goes:
First, the background information. My wife grew up Buddhist (Thai Forest mixed with Chinese), converted to Christianity about 17 years back, but has a very strong Buddhist tint on her Christianity. My real life experience with Buddhism has been limited to the superficial trappings of temple visits, religious talks with the wife, and some studies into Zen Buddhism when I was younger.
Buddhism can easily be broken down into two sections; an organized religion and a philosophy. As a philosophy, the eight fold path boils down to "Do the right thing." End of story.
Stylisticly, Buddhism is simply a decentralized middle ages Catholic church mixed with Mormonism. Form, ceremony, and the clergy are extremely important in everyday life. Everyday actions can greatly affect your standing in this life and the next, saint's relics/blessed medallions give luck and protection, and monks are often consulted for advice.
Now, the real fun comes when getting around not doing the right thing. In Thai Buddhism, it's called "Making Merit", which I guess is a mixture of Confucian teachings and Buddhism. Making merit is going out of your way to do nice things in order to atone for things you've done in the past, thus raising your overall standing. The highest thing that can generally be done is something to honor your parents, joining the clergy for a short time, or donating money to charities/a temple. Little everyday actions include leaving out sweets/water for protective building spirits or just random acts of kindness.
Of course, it still boils down to "Do the right thing." The rest is just retconing the times when you, as a flawed individual, didn't do the right thing.
That's pretty much just with the Thai forest tradition. Others vary on the overall theme. Zen/Japanese is bigger on the philosophical part, but was often practiced hand in hand with Shinto beliefs. This allowed the two belief structures to develop in slightly different manners.
Tibetan Buddhism is a twisted amalgamation used to justify a theocracy, so very similar to the medieval Catholic structure. I've very little positive to say about the strictly Tibetan beliefs.
Very interesting. Thanks for the insight, hobbler. Did your wife suffer some disillusionment or dissatisfaction with Buddhism before converting?
Nah, she was going to a Christian school and converted. Right now her beliefs are a mix of what she grew up with and Christianity. "Salvation may come from within, but it never hurts to treat the local spirits properly."
spitz, if you're still interested in Buddhism, you might find another school of thought more helpful to you than the Tibetan?
Yeah. I'm more drawn toward the Zen/Tao side of things. Not that I'm an expert, but what I know of these appeals to me.Quote:
Originally posted by Nrblex
I studied karate for 2 years, and learnt some Zen things from that - maybe that's where it comes from.
Ah, yeah. Especially the last bit. I was disappointed at how 'churchy' the Tibetan stuff seemed to be. Then felt guilty for being judgemental. But you seem to back up my experience also. Thanks for your posts!Quote:
Originally posted by hobbler
Good luck finding something that fits what you need, spitz. It sounds like looking into Zen Buddhism might be better for what you're after.
Anyone ever notice how fun it is to say Buddha? Buddha Buddha BUDDHA WEEEEEEE!!!!!
No wonder he's always smiling.
spitz: Read up about Zen Buddhism. It's pretty heavy into meditation and self If you were in Thailand, I could clue you in on some good Dhamma talks in English. I haven't been to any, but a good friend (British, been in Thailand since the 70's) goes to a lot of them. He may also have some good websites, so I'll check with him.
Cool, thanks hobbler! :)Quote:
Originally posted by hobbler