Stupid Knee Jerk Liberal anti-gun reactions

Sadly someone in Cumbria, for as yet some unknown reason, went on a shooting spree killing 12 people before kililng themselves. A lot of devastated families in the area as victims included his own brother.

The response from the loony left is that we should immediately ban all guns. No-one should have them, get rid of them all. These cries for bans don't help. Our guns laws are among the most stringent. He was licenced to own and use a rifle and shotgun.

Oh no, the outcriers say, what possible use could a taxi driver want with a shotgun or rifle. He should never have had one at all and because they are so dangerous, neither should anyone else. After all, we don't need one.

Well, claypigeon shooting, perhaps target practice, both olympic sports for one, and how about knives are used in more crimes than guns. Perhaps we should ban those, make everyone eat with a plastic spoon instead.

Seriously, when are these people going to stop.

Don't own guns, never shot a gun in my life and yet I actually agree with you. I kind of like the British model of gun control and licensing. I would not mind seeing the US match it but hardly a hot button issue for me. But an outright ban of guns seems like a useless gesture that still won't do what the gun haters want.

I think the M14 is the sexiest weapon alive

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Originally posted by What Exit?

I kind of like the British model of gun control and licensing. I would not mind seeing the US match it

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:o

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Originally posted by Wikipedia

Following the awarding of the 2012 Olympic Games to London, the government announced that special dispensation would be granted to allow the various shooting events to go ahead, as had been the case previously for the 2002 Commonwealth Games. However, it was still illegal for Britain's top pistol shooters to train in England, Scotland or Wales. As a result, British shooters currently spend 20 to 30 days a year training in Switzerland, and receive no public sports funding because their events are considered illegal in the UK

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British gun laws are ridiculous to begin with, the clearly don't stop gun crime, and any advocation of furthering the UK's nearly total nanny state onto America is damned near treason. While I don't expect it to be incorporated through the fourteenth amendment (though one can dream), later this month the supreme court is set to rule that the second amendment does in fact guarantee the right to keep and bear arms when they overturn Chicago's gun ban.

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Originally posted by Ben Franklin

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither

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And he was right. We have rights that we fought for and won as citizens. They have tolerances that are granted to subjects.

Well that is more extreme than I realized. Sounds like they toughened the laws since last I saw them. I did say this was not a hot button topic for me. I like background checks and waiting lists and restrictions on assualt and automatics and plastics but in general I am in favor of licensed ownership of even pistols.

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Originally posted by hatesfreedom

I think the M14 is the sexiest weapon alive

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In all my rabid fervor I somehow failed to address this point.

The 14 is indeed a sexy, sexy rifle, however the sexiest weapon alive is FN/FAL dressed up in the wood furniture.

http://www.rbgungraphics.com/falcolor6in432x559.gif

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Well that is more extreme than I realized. Sounds like they toughened the laws since last I saw them. I did say this was not a hot button topic for me. I like background checks and waiting lists and restrictions on assualt and automatics and plastics but in general I am in favor of licensed ownership of even pistols.

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I know you're not itching for a long drawn out screed on this, but you know I can't let that pass.

Background checks? We have them. The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS used at point of sale on firearms.

Waiting lists? In Illinois you have to wait 2 days to recieve a long arm (rifle or shotgun) and 5 days for a handgun. Really not that big a deal, but dumb when you already have the NICS in place.

Assault? Automatics? Define "assault weapon". Congress couldn't.

Automatics? There are at estimate no more than 200k legally transferrable (made or imported prior to 1986) fully automatic weapons in circulation in the US (for whatever reason the BATFE prefers not to say exactly) and the rarity makes them out of the reach of most regular people price wise (Never less than $10k, often two, three, or four times that much) and you also have to pay a $200 transfer tax to the BATFE, get a letter signed by the sheriff of the county you live in saying that he's alright with you having it (or any NFA item like a sawed off shotgun or a rifle under 16" or silencers AND you have to live in a state that allows automatic weapon ownership) and submit fingerprints to the BATFE so that they can do an additional seperate background check on you. They're already mighty well restricted.

Licensed ownership of pistols? Why? Pistols are far less deadly than a shotgun or a rifle.

Why shouldn't all guns be licensed I don't understand?

But you're right, I don't really care about this issue.

Nobody needs to keep a gun in their home in the UK. If bank tellers can't have easy access to guns in their place of work, why should people be allowed them to protect the home? If you use them for a sport, leave them wherever the activity is carried out.

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Originally posted by Cluricaun

Licensed ownership of pistols? Why? Pistols are far less deadly than a shotgun or a rifle.

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Like Jim, I don't really understand the objection to requiring licensing for guns. A gun a potentially very dangerous, and people should be required to have some training before they get one. If there's another way to ensure that besides licensing, I'm certainly open to hearing about it. (Or is the issue that licesnsing isn't required for rifles/shotguns? If so, that's kind of messed up to me.)

That being said, I also don't understand the 'ban all guns' types. Guns aren't fonts of malevolent evil that make people go crazy and become murderers.

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Originally posted by Orual

Like Jim, I don't really understand the objection to requiring licensing for guns. A gun a potentially very dangerous, and people should be required to have some training before they get one. If there's another way to ensure that besides licensing, I'm certainly open to hearing about it. (Or is the issue that licesnsing isn't required for rifles/shotguns? If so, that's kind of messed up to me.)

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ISTM that most people who completely oppose gun registration do so because they see it as a precursor to having guns taken away from them by the government.

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Originally posted by Orual

That being said, I also don't understand the 'ban all guns' types. Guns aren't fonts of malevolent evil that make people go crazy and become murderers.

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Nope, the only font that meets that description is Comic Sans MS.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

ISTM that most people who completely oppose gun registration do so because they see it as a precursor to having guns taken away from them by the government.

Nope, the only font that meets that description is Comic Sans MS.

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1) Well that is what I suspected but that is also crazy.

2) :lol: Poor Comic Sans, the most hated font of them all.
Now Arial Black, that is cool.

You don't need a license to own a gun because it's a right, not a privilege. If you want to take one around with you, most states require that you recieve a permit to carry a concealed weapon which is the same thing as a license. The only exceptions are rather rural areas.

It's like a car. You don't need a license to own a car or to drive one around on your farm, just a license to drive one and to operate one on public roadways. You don't need a license to own a gun, just a license to carry one in your pocket outside of your private property.

And just the same if you abuse your rights you'll be prohibited from doing so as you've proven that you're a danger to yourself and others. I'm not worried about the "Gubbermint" taking away my guns. Gun control is a dead issue that cost the Dems dearly in the past and isn't likely to rear it's ignorant head again any time soon what with the Supreme Court pretty much ending the debate. But I do recognize that I have a right to keep and bear arms and I'm not fond of the concept of weakening any of our rights as Americans any farther than they've already eroded.

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Originally posted by Cluricaun

It's like a car. You don't need a license to own a car or to drive one around on your farm, just a license to drive one and to operate one on public roadways. You don't need a license to own a gun, just a license to carry one in your pocket outside of your private property.

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I'm pretty sure you do need a license to purchase a car ... but the background-check rules and such for guns compare nicely.

Nevermind.

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Originally posted by Orual

I'm pretty sure you do need a license to purchase a car ... but the background-check rules and such for guns compare nicely.

Nevermind.

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Actually he is right, you don't need a license to own a car. Plenty of kids get cars before they can drive and get started on fixing them up. You do need a license to drive a car though on the streets. So I see the point Cluricaun is trying to make. Fair enough to me as this is not a fight I care about. Guns are far from our major crime problem, our laws on drugs and CEO responsibility would appear to me to be our biggest criminal issues.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Actually he is right, you don't need a license to own a car. Plenty of kids get cars before they can drive and get started on fixing them up.

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Do they buy those cars themselves?I'm trying to figure out how you would get a car off of a lot without being a licensed driver. I understand that kids can get cars as gifts before they get their license.

I don't need a license to purchase a car. Sure, they ask for one plus proof of insurance when you buy one from the dealership, but I can go on Craigslist right now and a few hundred dollars later be the owner of my very own vehicle.

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Originally posted by Orual

Do they buy those cars themselves?I'm trying to figure out how you would get a car off of a lot without being a licensed driver. I understand that kids can get cars as gifts before they get their license.

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Parents or siblings or friends pick them up or the seller drops them off. It is usually the case of a teen buying it from someone else. This use to be fairly common but I had a lot of friends that worked on old cars.

As a matter of fact, that's how I got my first car. I bought it from my grandma for a pittance when I was 15, fixed it up in auto shop in high school for the next year or so and then, boom. I miss you shit brown 1978 Chevy Nova.

Oh, I paid to have it towed to the high school too. No driving for me at 15.

So Cluricaun, do you have problems with requiring guns to be registered?

I understand your 2nd Am issues with requiring licensing. While I don't entirely agree with that interpretation, I'm OK with 'you don't need a license to own a gun, but you do need a permit to carry concealed in public'.

I've got mixed feelings about open carry permits, I'm not sure about that. I believe you can carry long guns in a rack, though, 'round here.

I used to be more in favor of gun bans, but I know several gun enthusiasts who truly want weird guns just to go and shoot them at the range (or actually on their south 40, but y'know what I mean). And it doesn't seem like bans are really doing much good.

So my question is, in hypothetical land where you & I were deciding how this would work, if I was willing to give up gun bans, would you be willing to require ALL guns to be registered?

(FTR, I grew up in a very anti-gun household, due to my mother's personal experiences, and I still favor gun control of some sorts. However, like I said, I've several different sets of friends who love guns and handle them properly. It's given me a very different outlook on the issue. I'm still trying to figure out how I think it all should work, and I enjoy discussing it with reasonable people from the "other side" to see what things we can compromise on.)

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Originally posted by redtail

So my question is, in hypothetical land where you & I were deciding how this would work, if I was willing to give up gun bans, would you be willing to require ALL guns to be registered?

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No, because both are nebulous terms without any real definition. I fill out a form, BATFE FORM 4473 every time I buy a gun that records the serial number, make, model, etc, and my name, address, etc. If they wanted to make that a global database instead of one maintained only by dealers in case of inquiry by a federal agency, sure. I'm not hiding anything and the information is already there, just not organized.

But there are plenty of guns out there that would be "unregisterable" due to age, or that they're war trophys, or that they're custom guns.

And what about guns that are already owned prior to the Imaginary Regstration Date? Make it voluntary? Good luck with that idea, nobody would comply and there's really no way of catching them for not doing it.

Really, at the end of the day what good would such a database serve? We know who has a gun purchased from a registered dealer on or after a certain date? Whoop de doo.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

Actually he is right, you don't need a license to own a car. Plenty of kids get cars before they can drive and get started on fixing them up. You do need a license to drive a car though on the streets. So I see the point Cluricaun is trying to make. Fair enough to me as this is not a fight I care about. Guns are far from our major crime problem, our laws on drugs and CEO responsibility would appear to me to be our biggest criminal issues.

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When I was a car salesman in 2002, we would not sell a new or used vehicle to a person without a license; it was my impression that Tennessee state law prohibited that. I could easily be wrong, though.