Whom should rape-prevention campaigns address?

This question was brought up on a recent post on the Sociological Images blog. There's a satyric video that goes with it, which borrows heavily from a particular meme I've seen elsewhere:

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How to stop rape:
If a woman is drunk, don’t rape her.
If a woman is walking alone at night, don’t rape her.
If a women is drugged and unconscious, don’t rape her.
If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don’t rape her.
If a woman is jogging in a park at 5 am, don’t rape her.
If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you’re still hung up on, don’t rape her.
If a woman is asleep in her bed, don’t rape her.
If a woman is doing her laundry, don’t rape her.
If a woman is in a coma, don’t rape her.
If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don’t rape her.
If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don’t rape her.
If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don’t rape her.
If your step-daughter is watching tv, don’t rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don’t rape her.
If your friend thinks it’s okay to rape someone, tell him it’s not, and that he’s not your friend.
If your “friend” tells you he raped someone, report him to the police.
If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there’s an unconscious woman upstairs and it’s your turn, don’t rape her, call the police and tell the guy he’s a rapist.
Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, sons of friends it’s not okay to rape someone.

Don’t give your women friends trite advice on how to avoid rape.
Don’t imply that she could have avoided it if she’d only done/not done x.
Don’t imply that it’s in any way her fault.
Don’t let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he “got some” with the drunk girl.
Don’t perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can, too, help yourself.

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The automatic response to this is usually that, of course men know rape is wrong. To imply that a crime that is committed 95% of the time by men is somehow a crime of men is insulting to all of the good ones out there, after all. But is focusing rape-prevention on telling women what to avoid actually that helpful? Would we be better off by having more dialogue about what constitutes consent? With everyone, not just women?

The cultural idea that rape is a physically violent act committed by strangers in dark alleys doesn't really address the fact that a lot of the time there's no physical violence because the woman is incapable of fighting back (unconscious, drunk, drugged, mentally handicapped, etc) and that it's more likely to be someone you trust than a stranger. But viewing every male in your life as a potential predator (something a lot of rape-prevention literature insinuates) is hardly a healthy way to live.

I think it is both. A campaign letting young men know the above is a good idea. On the other hand, going to college frat parties and getting drunk is not a good way to avoid rape. Some men, especially drunken young men are sadly likely to take advantage of a young woman's lack of common sense. Sometimes it is more than one at a time. Sometimes it can get very ugly and brutal. Of course rape can happen to anyone and in many places but ensuring young women know how to decrease the odds of getting raped is a very good idea too.

So both.

I heard a report on NPR a few weeks back where research was done on date rapists on college campuses. These were men who, in anonymous questionnaires, divulged having forced women to have sex, but hadn't ever been charged.

Apparently the perpetrators on average committed over five rapes, and these repeat offenders commit over 90% of rapes. And apparently, the profiles of these men were very similar to those of imprisoned rapists. They admitted having gone about it in a deliberate way (largely by getting women too drunk to resist) and they had the same attitudes of anger towards women and a desire to dominate them. They were clearly not, in other words, men who "made a mistake", and in particular they did not regret what they had done.

And I'm appalled.

I'm appalled that the idea is apparently still floating around out there that a decent, ordinary guy might just accidentally get drunk and horny and rape a woman. I'm appalled, too, by the fact that similar studies show that apparently the great majority of men on college campuses who are found guilty of rape by disciplinary committees aren't even expelled. I'm appalled that the fact that rape is rape is still something that is, apparently, a novel idea that, in this day and age, still needs further investigation.

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Originally posted by Zuul

There's a satyric video that goes with it, which borrows heavily from a particular meme I've seen elsewhere:

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:smug:

Well, I was going to post about how living like all men are rapists is a smart move since, well, all men are potential rapists. Then I thought that might be going too far. But Exy's post pretty much backs me up.

1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted in their life. Which means that at least 1 in 4 men are rapists. A full 25% of the male population (at least) will rape a woman if they get the opportunity. And will apparently do it more than once if they can get away with it. And we talk about women's "common sense"? No, the simple fact of the matter is that we live in a culture that so devalues women that men believe they can treat women like objects, like animals, and still be good, upstanding people. And you want to talk about a woman's "common sense"? Fuck that fucking noise. That's the stupidest fucking shit I ever heard, because there's no amount of "common sense" that will stop a rapist. Rapists are fathers, uncles, brothers, boyfriends, and husbands. Rapists are friends and study partners. Rapists are professors and bosses. Women are constantly aware of that fact because there's no social safeguard. Raping your unconscious girlfriend wont' destroy your life because there's just enough misogynism left in the culture to grant a pass "Well...it's her word against his."

Men, as a group, need to take responsibility for this. The impulse shouldn't be "Well, she shouldn't have gone to that party." Or "Well, she should have known better than to have a drink." Or "Well, she shouldn't have walked to her car." Or "Well, she should have had three bolts on her door instead of one." The default shouldn't be that women must constantly be on their guard to ward off the advancing forces of cocks. the default should be that men not be brutal fucking animals. But if you point that out, you always, always, always get the same whining responses. I don't care about how oppressed you are because 1)men are all painted with the same (rapist) brush or 2) because some girl somewhere some time wrongfully accused an innocent man or 3)how women "tease and tease" and then take back their consent. Somehow, a large number of men think those 3 arguments are effective responses to the fact that women are still brutalized and victimized in this country on a daily basis.

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Originally posted by pepperlandgirl

1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted in their life. Which means that at least 1 in 4 men are rapists.

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I don't see how this follows - yes, 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted, but it's not necessarily a 1:1 assaulter:assaultee ratio. One asshole could provide that experience for a good many unfortunate women.

I think part of the dichotomy is that if you focus your education efforts on just one gender, you're going to be missing opportunities with people who aren't in your target audience. For that matter, it's worth remembering that while most sexual assaults have female victim, males do become victims as well. (Especially in military situations, or other situations where the gender ratios are at artificial levels.) If you don't take the time to re-iterate that rape is wrong, and all the ways that there can appear to be support or acceptance of rape, you're not going to foster any thinking on that issue. At the same time, I don't think that it's wise to assume that everyone thinks about all the precautions they might be able to take for their own protection.

One of the things that any general education program is going to have to do it cover ground that is likely old hat for some, or even the majority, of your audience. So saying that this knowledge is already out there is not a sufficient reason to drop it from your education program. Should it be the focus? Probably not, but it still needs to be mentioned.

One thing that I'd like to see considered, at least, would be to address the more problematic rape scenarios: Rather than the stranger assault, the boyfriend/husband assault; the boss's coercion; the teacher's or mentor's control. These all, I believe, happen far more frequently than the stereotypical stranger assault.

Stranger assaults are real, but they are not where the majority of rapes happen.

I'd also love to see rape prevention start addressing the old chestnut: If the victim's body responds to the stimuli of the assault, it can't be rape. It doesn't matter whether an assailant can create a reaction in his or her victim: All that matters is the lack of consent.

Not to sound like I'm minimizing the significance of rape but the 1 in 4 statistic is pretty widely agreed to not be valid, and in fact my understanding is the author of the original study establishing that has acknowledged that it's not really accurate.

Your math is very bad pepperlandgirl. If 1 in 4 women are raped and many or most rapist rape more than one women than the number of men that rape is below 1 in 4. If it is closer to Exy's cite, than it would be more like 1 in 20 men or 5%. Still high enough to be worried, very worried.

And yes, women need to use some common sense too. A lot of rape, a sadly very high number does occur in situations where the buddy system would have helped or not getting drunk at a frat party would have helped. I am not the enemy here. It is mostly a male problem and a severe one. My daughter is not even a teen yet and I have already had to talk to her about rape and neighborhood boys. It is not pleasant, it sucks in fact. But I would be a very bad father if I did not try to advise her to stay safe.

This seems to be the NPR series of reports that Exy referenced: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=124073905

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Originally posted by pepperlandgirl

1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted in their life. Which means that at least 1 in 4 men are rapists. A full 25% of the male population (at least) will rape a woman if they get the opportunity.

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:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I don't know where to start on your math or logic here, except to say I thought you were brighter than this.

ETA: apparently I'm not the first to notice this, thank god.

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Originally posted by Exy

Not to sound like I'm minimizing the significance of rape but the 1 in 4 statistic is pretty widely agreed to not be valid, and in fact my understanding is the author of the original study establishing that has acknowledged that it's not really accurate.

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Not to bring anecdotes to a citefight, but if we're including date rape, molestation and other forms of sexual abuse as "sexual assault" then 25% sounds way too low to me.

I'm really sorry that thread made an (admittedly huge) math error in her post, because I agree with many of the ideas behind her post.

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Originally posted by What Exit?

And yes, women need to use some common sense too. A lot of rape, a sadly very high number does occur in situations where the buddy system would have helped or not getting drunk at a frat party would have helped. I am not the enemy here. It is mostly a male problem and a severe one. My daughter is not even a teen yet and I have already had to talk to her about rape and neighborhood boys. It is not pleasant, it sucks in fact. But I would be a very bad father if I did not try to advise her to stay safe.

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When you say women need to use "common sense" you imply, first of all, that rape can be avoided if you're just smart enough, it also implies that a women who OMG goes so a social event! and *gasp* drinks alcohol! and is subsequently sexually assaulted is to blame for what happened to her.

And that's pretty shitty so

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

When you say women need to use "common sense" you imply, first of all, that rape can be avoided if you're just smart enough,

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No, the implication is that the risk of rape can be reduced if you're smart enough. Which is true.

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it also implies that a women who OMG goes so a social event! and *gasp* drinks alcohol! and is subsequently sexually assaulted is to blame for what happened to her.

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No, it implies that women who do certain things are at higher risk. It shouldn't be that way, of course. You should be sure you won't get raped if you engage in more dangerous behaviors, but sadly that's not the world we're living in. In the meantime, as we work to improve our society, some degree of awareness can help reduce the risks people face.

It's always the rapist's fault and Jim didn't say otherwise. But allocating the blame properly is not sufficient to ensure that women are safe.

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Originally posted by Myrnalene

I'm really sorry that thread made an (admittedly huge) math error in her post, because I agree with many of the ideas behind her post.



When you say women need to use "common sense" you imply, first of all, that rape can be avoided if you're just smart enough, it also implies that a women who OMG goes so a social event! and *gasp* drinks alcohol! and is subsequently sexually assaulted is to blame for what happened to her.

And that's pretty shitty so

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No. that was you own odd interpretation of what I said pretty clearly.

I agree that the rape prevention education, at least I've been exposed to, doesn't focus nearly enough on the (prospective) rapist. It's all about telling women not to walk to their cars alone, or to watch for roofies being dropped into their drinks. Both of which are sensational and horrifying scenarios, but actually make up only a tiny percentage of rapes.

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Originally posted by Exy

No, the implication is that the risk of rape can be reduced if you're smart enough. Which is true.

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While I am a huge advocate for safety and education and letting people know how to avoid potentially bad situations, I am filled with such absolute rage that I am expected to walk through my life in constant awareness that I am a potential victim. And that people think they are being helpful or supportive when they suggest that if only a woman was cautious enough she would not have been raped.

I can't lock my vagina in a safe hidden in my closet. I can't keep it at home when I go out. I have something that is a part of my body that for one reason or another is apparently seen as community property to a certain segment of the population. There is nothing I can do about that. Nothing. There is nothing stupid or incautious about having a drink with trusted friends in your house, but if a couple of them wander off and it turns out Billy thinks drunk women are fair game...oops. Guess if I'd been smarter I could have avoided that one.

Maybe people think they're being helpful or logical when they say, "Don't do X and you'll reduce your chances of being assaulted", but it comes across as, "You deserve to be assaulted if you do X." And after having been assaulted, a person tells herself that enough without having to hear it from anyone else. Yes, ways to defend yourself and to avoid bad situations absolutely should be taught, but reinforcing the idea that women cannot live normal lives and must constantly be on guard for being attacked isn't helping.

If there are situations that aren't safe for women, then those situations are shameful and anyone associated with them should be shunned. Perpetuating the idea that if you go to a frat party you can expect to be raped doesn't keep young and naive women away. It just implies to the men there that, hey, everybody knows a woman who comes to this party is asking for it!

Fuck that. A woman should be safe walking down the street naked with a bottle of whiskey in her hand.

Well ladies and gentlemen, that's why you should stay away from the devil weed. FWIW, I agree with Queen Tonya that if you factor in all instances of sexual abuse/assault, 25% does seem too low. The actual point I was trying to make is that the sheer number of assaults (reported and non-reported) that happen every year makes it seem pretty reasonable to treat men as potential predators. They're not just the frat boys at a drunken party. We get sidetracked into that scenario (which is all too common but doesn't account for all the assaults) and forget that there are plenty of cases where "common sense" doesn't prevent rape at all, and in fact, can't prevent rape. What "common sense" prevention would stop a father from raping his 14 year old daughter? What "common sense" prevention would stop a person of authority manipulating a woman into sex? What "common sense" prevention would stop a date rape when the man purposefully presented himself as somebody you can trust? Is it "common sense" to avoid being alone with any man ever who I didn't intend to have sex with? That's why hearing the "common sense" argument, especially from men, is so very, very obnoxious. It might seem like a great way to cut down on the unfortunately far too high number of sexual assault/violence, but in reality, there are just too many instances when a woman is overpowered and there was absolutely nothing she could have done to prevent it--at that point she could only do her best to stop it or get away. (of course, if we take the "don't get drunk at a party" scenario as a great example of a common sense scenario and try to apply it to the real world, it doesn't really make sense. A woman can be drugged at any party, at any bar, at any club. Should women simply stop going to any social gatherings at all? If they do, should they avoid drinking? Can they still have soft drinks even though the potential to be drugged still exists? I'm not saying that every person who got raped at a party did so after being drugged. I just mean if you remove the element of alcohol, there's still an element of danger present that should be guarded against).

OK, what's the solution? Is rape prevention education worthwhile at all? Does it do more harm than good as it's currently constituted?

The reason, as far as I can tell, that rape prevention education focuses on potential victims, is that the victims are the ones who don't want it to happen.

As Exy pointed out, the average rapist meant to do it, well before it happened. We can work on fostering a society in which rape isn't accepted (and, overall, I think we're making progress...after all, it is now considered possible for a man to rape his wife), and we can work on helping potential victims minimize the likelihood that they'll be actual victims. It does suck that society is not perfect, but I personally am okay with the idea that I need to be careful and aware, that some person might be a carjacker, about to hold up the store I'm shopping in, or a rapist. When has society ever been free from the potential for violence? I don't like that this is a possibility, but I don't feel outraged that it's the reality. Everyone is a potential victim.

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Originally posted by pepperlandgirl

Well ladies and gentlemen, that's why you should stay away from the devil weed. FWIW, I agree with Queen Tonya that if you factor in all instances of sexual abuse/assault, 25% does seem too low. The actual point I was trying to make is that the sheer number of assaults (reported and non-reported) that happen every year makes it seem pretty reasonable to treat men as potential predators. They're not just the frat boys at a drunken party. We get sidetracked into that scenario (which is all too common but doesn't account for all the assaults) and forget that there are plenty of cases where "common sense" doesn't prevent rape at all, and in fact, can't prevent rape. What "common sense" prevention would stop a father from raping his 14 year old daughter? What "common sense" prevention would stop a person of authority manipulating a woman into sex? What "common sense" prevention would stop a date rape when the man purposefully presented himself as somebody you can trust? Is it "common sense" to avoid being alone with any man ever who I didn't intend to have sex with? That's why hearing the "common sense" argument, especially from men, is so very, very obnoxious. It might seem like a great way to cut down on the unfortunately far too high number of sexual assault/violence, but in reality, there are just too many instances when a woman is overpowered and there was absolutely nothing she could have done to prevent it--at that point she could only do her best to stop it or get away. (of course, if we take the "don't get drunk at a party" scenario as a great example of a common sense scenario and try to apply it to the real world, it doesn't really make sense. A woman can be drugged at any party, at any bar, at any club. Should women simply stop going to any social gatherings at all? If they do, should they avoid drinking? Can they still have soft drinks even though the potential to be drugged still exists? I'm not saying that every person who got raped at a party did so after being drugged. I just mean if you remove the element of alcohol, there's still an element of danger present that should be guarded against).

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But nobody, at least nobody in this thread and nobody I know IRL, is arguing any of this. I don't know anyone who thinks rape is anything other than 100% the fault of the rapist. But it's clear that the probability of assault can be reduced by some simple measures. Why not advocate for those?

Of course prevention education focuses on the victims. Who else would be listening?

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

OK, what's the solution? Is rape prevention education worthwhile at all? Does it do more harm than good as it's currently constituted?

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I think rape-prevention education is worthwhile, but not as it's usually handled. I don't think outlining high risk situations is nearly as helpful as it's thought to be. Does it help to warn people, particularly the young? Yes. Is it enough? No.

Rather than simply focusing on specific situations to avoid, it seems to me approaching it kind of like driver's ed would make sense. Just telling kids "don't drive drunk" is hardly going to teach them how to drive safely. Roleplaying scenarios out, talking about not just high-risk situations but behavior to watch out for, discussing what consent actually means and when someone can't give it, and encouraging people to not only watch out for themselves but their friends and to discourage their friends from the old "if she gets drunk enough she'll sleep with me!" route.

As for the report on NPR, there is a huge, huge problem with the study it cites. The psychologist's assumption that he has proven most rapists have planned it out and know what they did rests upon one of two questions being answered in the affirmative:

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"Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated [on alcohol or drugs] to resist your sexual advances?"

"Have you ever had sexual intercourse with an adult when they didn't want to because you used physical force [twisting their arm, holding them down, etc.] if they didn't cooperate?"

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How many men in denial of having raped would actually answer that, yes, they had sex with someone who didn't want it? Of course his study is going to find that the majority of rapists knew what they did. He selected for it.

All his study proves is that college men who have raped, recognize that they have raped, and are willing to discuss it will answer his survey in this way. Since he found that they're narcissistic braggarts, who knows if anything they say is actually true. They may have grossly over-represented how many crimes they've actually committed.

From further down in that report:

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At Texas A&M, Elton Yarbrough was a promising student. Then he was linked to five rapes.

The first woman went to the student health center. She says that as staffers did a rape examination, one asked, "Well, were you drunk?" The woman felt she was being blamed. Because of that — and because she'd considered herself a friend of Yarbrough's — she didn't report the assault to campus police. A year later, when the fourth woman called, the student health center was closed for a holiday. The answering machine said to call 911 in an emergency. She did, and got city police.

"And College Station police were there within a few minutes," says Jennifer Peebles, a journalist who reported the case for the Center for Public Integrity. "They seemed to have absolutely taken the case very seriously and investigated it."

On a recent morning, Peebles — who works for Texas Watchdog, an online investigative newspaper in Houston — went to visit Yarbrough at a Texas prison. He spoke freely about the women. He recounted the sex and how, he claims, they'd come on to him.

"He feels strongly that he didn't do anything against the law," Peebles says. "He says he feels like he made a bad decision and that the young woman made, or the young women, made a bad decision with him to have sex with him."

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[Bolding mine]

Would that young man have said he had sex with people who didn't want it? Probably not.

So you're saying that rape prevention education should include more education from the POV of the putative rapist, including specific scenarios that are rape even though they don't involve physical coercion? I like that idea.

Right. Obviously, getting through to somebody who's got a warped enough brain to run around raping people isn't all that likely to help (the silly video linked in the OP aside), but a more in-depth look at how rape really happens would be helpful not just in keeping potential victims safe but in giving everyone (men, women, somewhere in between) the tools to recognize when their friends are in danger.

Which is probably where you were going with your OP before Pepper showed up, posted stoned, and called me a quarter of a rapist. :D

Poor Pepper. :D

Treading on well worn ground here, but this is my two cents:

A lot* of instances of rape could be eliminated if a few key points are drilled into young men and young women at a few key moments of their lives (ie, entering high school, entering university, etc). One, for the men, is that having sex with a woman while she is passed out drunk is actually a crime that, in fact, is called rape. Another, for the women, is the advice that they should watch each other's backs when going out, keeping an eye on drinks and getting trashed women home safe.

Seriously, it is my opinion that a lot of rape cases are guys taking advantage of women because they don't know that it's wrong. Wont stop them all, might only dent them numbers, but it would help. That's the way I was educated and, though I struggle to speak on behalf of rapists, I believe that it was in some way effective.

*don't know the proportion, don't care, and any statistics you find are, at best, only qualitative indicators of the rate of occurance.

We teach a program called SHARP (Sexual Harassment, Assault & Rape Prevention) in our Taekwondo school. One of the things that we do is point out that the easiest, simplest thing for women to do to prevent rape is to be aware of their surroundings. That includes taking the responsibility of not altering their mental state with booze or drugs.

Since this course is taught to women, I don't get the opportunity to present the other half of the equation: men can totally prevent rape by simply treating women with courtesy and respect. But for that to happen will require almost a total paradigm shift in our society.

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Originally posted by AllWalker

Seriously, it is my opinion that a lot of rape cases are guys taking advantage of women because they don't know that it's wrong. Wont stop them all, might only dent them numbers, but it would help. That's the way I was educated and, though I struggle to speak on behalf of rapists, I believe that it was in some way effective.

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Also teach young men to look out for there buddies by speaking up before hand rather than covering up afterwords.

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Originally posted by Clothahump

Since this course is taught to women, I don't get the opportunity to present the other half of the equation: men can totally prevent rape by simply treating women with courtesy and respect. But for that to happen will require almost a total paradigm shift in our society.

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Very similar to the paradigm shift in society's views about racism in the last forty years. Sure it takes awhile so we best start now.

When I went in the Army we had excellent classes that laid down the law. They let us know in no uncertain terms what sexual harassment is but also that we would be raked over the coals for any infractions. And the fact that we took the class would be used as evidence that we knew better. And anyone that knew about any instance of rape or harassment and didn't speak up would be treated as an accessory after the fact.

Well, I haven't chimed in on this topic before, but I've been giving it a lot of thought (specifically today IRT the issue of precautions women "should" take). This is kind of a tangent, but something that's been on my mind.

I have kind of an interesting POV in this as a transman because I can sort of see things from both sides. I've been out at night in not-so-great places where I've been perceived by everyone around me as a man, woman, and at times where people weren't sure. And in the latter two cases those people catcalled, made rather unpleasant comments about my person, and generally kept me on my guard. But recently I'm passing for the most part on the streets, and something interesting has happened. Presumably it's the same people around me, but they have been keeping their mouths shut. No catcalls, no comments, no nothing. As a man, I have become invisible to them. And to be honest, I have found myself letting my guard down a little. Not completely, but enough to be noticeable. You guys who have spent your whole lives as men really just can't appreciate this.

Now, the reason I bring this up is, and how it ties into rape prevention is that I see men saying things like, welp, it's not like we don't have to be careful in bad areas, we might be robbed. You really can't treat taking precautions for not getting mugged and not getting raped as if they were the same. They are only superficially similar (at least for stranger rape, and if you're talking about dark alleys then I can only assume that's what you're referring to) in that both are people being preyed upon.

But then we come to the fact that most rapes are not done by strangers. Not even at drunken frat parties. Using the party example, usually the woman knows the man that assaults her. Knows him well enough that she or her friends trust him at least enough not to rape her. Telling her beforehand to not get drunk at a party, or use the buddy system is pretty worthless when the guy is someone her friends are going to expect she'll be okay with.

So yeah, I guess I'm in the camp of directing rape prevention more toward men.

Just for added emphasis, today the Ocmulgee Circuit District Attorney has announced that the pending sexual assault charges against Ben Roethlisberger are being dropped.

The reason that the charges are being dropped is that the DA feels there's no way to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the All Pro QB raped his accuser.

Of course the same story also points out such vital details as:

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Once inside, they were provided shots of alcohol. Among them: his accuser, who was wearing a sexually explicit T-shirt

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or the judgment

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Too much drinking by too many people

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That the accuser has talked with the DA since the original accusation and said she'd rather not see charges pressed doesn't change that it seems that the difficulties in prosecution of these charges is going to rest on the accuser's perceived character, rather than any actions of the man involved.

I'll be the first to admit I don't know what happened in that small room. That doesn't mean that the way the events are being described and evaluated haven't had the effect of putting the woman on trial even before her alleged assailant.

If you don't think that's fucked up, I think you fail basic humanity.

I'll never forget the rape prevention seminar I went to in college with the good-hearted chief of campus police doing the presenting.

It went something like this:

1) Step one: Describe scary statistics about rape
2) Step two: Describe situations (like walking across campus) in which rape can occur
3) Step three: ???

I felt for the guy, I really did. We students asked him point blank, "So, what should we do to avoid rape?" And since he didn't want to say, "Don't date, don't wear sexy clothes, and don't walk across campus alone even though you really do need to study late for your finals," he really didn't have much of an answer for us. He get saying "be aware, just ... be aware." Poor guy, he was caught between a genuine desire to reduce our exposure to violence and a realization that telling us to lock ourselves away in an ivory tower wasn't much of a response - and telling us, "Don't do dangerous things" would just insult our intelligence.

I guess I'm not sure rape prevention education is the way to go. Sure, do make sure girls know about roofies and all that. But really we need to look at the larger picture. Creating a society where women are the equal of men, and safely-practiced consensual sex is not a big deal, would presumably help with the drunken frat-boy kind of rapes. Ensuring that all kids grow up without emotional abuse (yeah, that's a realistic goal!) and using tax dollars to create pedestrian-friendly, secure and well-lit walkways would help with stranger-rape.

In other words, I guess we just have to evolve more as a species.

Here's a controversial Egyptian anti-rape PSA http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...ling_a_fly.php

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Originally posted by The Original An Gadaí

Here's a controversial Egyptian anti-rape PSA http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...ling_a_fly.php

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Insulting to men as well as women. Rapists aren't mindless insects, they're human beings who make antisocial choices, and the fact that people can take certain steps to reduce their likelihood of becoming victims doesn't diminish that fault and culpability.

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Originally posted by OneCentStamp

Insulting to men as well as women. Rapists aren't mindless insects, they're human beings who make antisocial choices, and the fact that people can take certain steps to reduce their likelihood of becoming victims doesn't diminish that fault and culpability.

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Agreed. Promoting the idea that an otherwise decent man will be driven to rape if a woman is provocative is really insulting to men in general.

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Originally posted by Zuul

Agreed. Promoting the idea that an otherwise decent man will be driven to rape if a woman is provocative is really insulting to men in general.

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Insulting, and pretty convenient to rapists.

"I thought he was pretty fly until he raped me."