+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 118

Thread: Cyclists are assholes.

  1. #1
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    183

    Default Cyclists are assholes.

    I'm walking down the street today, approaching a 3-way stop (it's a T-intersection, so it's an all-way stop). I hear the telltale whoosh of a gaggle of cyclists approaching behind me. I make a mental bet with myself... will they blow through on a left turn, or just barrel straight ahead? Will they even slow down?

    The answer turned out to be, (1) they blow through the stop sign on the left turn, and (2) hell no, they're not breaking pace. But then I see something a little different. Yes, here comes a white Honda at the same intersection, and guess what... he looks like he's trying to be a cyclist today... he wants to blow through the stop sign without stopping also.

    Well, there's a screech of brakes, some angry shouting, some strong feelings expressed in sign language. And the priceless bit... I hear one of the cyclists indignantly harrumphing to his fellow asshole...

    "Did you SEE that motherfucker? He wasn't even going to STOP!" Yes, that's right. 50 cyclists blow through a stop sign without even slowing down, and they have the temerity to gripe about a car who did the same damn thing.

    Seriously, what's wrong with cyclists? Are their helmets too tight? Why do they think they're special snowflakes who don't have to obey the same traffic laws everyone else does?

  2. #2
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Because there's next to no enforcement. How many cyclists have you seen pulled over by the police? They get away with it because they're allowed to get away with it.

  3. #3
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    313

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Where I live we have a decided lack of bike paths / bike lanes etc., which is unfortunate since I believe cycling as a means of commuting ought to be encouraged. Despite the sweltering summertime heat, I would consider cycling to and from school and work were it advisable from the standpoint of safety.

    We nonetheless have cyclists, cyclists whose mentality is quite at odds with courtesy and common sense. Cyclists on highways. Cyclists on sidewalks. Cyclists meandering in the middle of busy avenues. Cyclists on the wrong side of the road. Most precious was the cyclist with the baby buggy hitched to the rear, cycling down a cramped, busy road with poor visibility.

  4. #4
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Here's an idea for automobile users.

    Think about all the things that bug you about having to travel on public highways, then try and imagine how much more bothersome they'd be if you had no protection from the elements or fellow road users, and had to balance on two wheels which you are propelling with the power of your legs.

    Then STFU moaning!
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  5. #5
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov
    ...no protection from the elements or fellow road users...
    All the more reason to stop at stop signs and traffic lights, dontcha think?

    As to the rest of your post, cry me a fucking river. No one's forcing them to ride.

  6. #6
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    [quote=Q.E.D.]
    Quote Originally posted by "ivan astikov":2tfmtibl
    ...no protection from the elements or fellow road users...
    All the more reason to stop at stop signs and traffic lights, dontcha think?[/quote:2tfmtibl]
    Look, cyclists aren't the only road users to try and sneak through red lights or watch for the other lights changing and set off before your own lights have changed, but a cyclist is the one at most danger from this procedure, so why should you care unless you are the one that hits them and has your timetable altered?

    Quote Originally posted by Q.E.D.
    As to the rest of your post, cry me a fucking river. No one's forcing them to ride.
    And nobody is forcing you to drive a motor vehicle. If you want to take liberties and don't mind taking a bit of a risk, get a fucking pedal bike.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  7. #7
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    313

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Let's assume for the sake of argument that cycling is inherently more dangerous than driving. Does this absolve cyclists from acceding to the rules of the road or otherwise behaving with common sense?

  8. #8
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    North of the Manson-Nixon line
    Posts
    609

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov
    Think about all the things that bug you about having to travel on public highways, then try and imagine how much more bothersome they'd be if you had no protection from the elements or fellow road users, and had to balance on two wheels which you are propelling with the power of your legs.
    Sorry to disagree, but a sense of self preservation should behoove the unprotected to be aware of their surroundings, and not place themselves in a perilous situation.

    My Dad used to speak about not being right, but being left, as in surviving. He'd offer the little ditty: Here's to the memory of Johnny O'Day, who died defending his right of way. He was right, quite right, as he sailed along, and just as dead as if he'd been wrong.
    :wink:
    Opportunity is missed by most people, because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Edison

  9. #9
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov
    ...a cyclist is the one at most danger from this procedure, so why should you care unless you are the one that hits them and has your timetable altered?
    That's pretty much it. I don't particularly want to be late to work because I have to scrape some moron on a bike off my tire.

  10. #10
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by The Logos
    Let's assume for the sake of argument that cycling is inherently more dangerous than driving. Does this absolve cyclists from acceding to the rules of the road or otherwise behaving with common sense?
    I don't know how you can think cycling would not be less safe than driving. Just the factor of you not having a protective shell around you makes it measurably more dangerous.

    Do you know when the rules that have been made for cycling on public highways were actually laid out? Have they took into consideration the amount of traffic that is currently on our roads? Because unless they actually deal with circumstances as they actually are and not how they were 20 years ago, I am just going to rely on my common sense and instinct for self-preservation.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  11. #11
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    685

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    I know, I know...both the driver and the bicyclists are at fault, they're both assholes for failing to obey a road sign.

    I live in B.C. and I think its reputation as a bike culture is well known.

    If I had seen the peleton approaching that intersection in enough time, I would have purposely slowed down and waved my arm out the window to motion them through.

    I have stopped at the end of some of our forestry roads which are intersected by the inland highway and have seen packs approaching on my left. I will wave, spin my forefinger in a circle and point down the road to indicate DON'T WORRY--I'm not gonna jump out in front of them.

    When I pass you, I will go wide. I will give you more than the legislated 18 inches on either side of you. I expect a motorist approaching from the other way will go wide around a bicyclist on their side of the road and I will ease over to my right to give us both breathing room. Motorists here seem to prefer going wide without having to slow down than braking and squeezing by a pack.

    When other drivers pass me on the road when it's pissing rain and they cut right back in front of me instead of putting some space between my windshield and their tire spray? Can FOADIAF. Drivers who do that to bicyclists? I want them resurrected so they can DIAF twice.

    But I'm not like a lot of people and that's why I'm not a bicyclist.
    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth - Marcus Aurelius

  12. #12
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov
    I don't know how you can think cycling would not be less safe than driving. Just the factor of you not having a protective shell around you makes it measurably more dangerous.
    Except you'd be wrong.

  13. #13
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    183

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov
    Look, cyclists aren't the only road users to try and sneak through red lights or watch for the other lights changing and set off before your own lights have changed,
    Cyclists don't try and sneak through red lights or stop signs. It's a 99.9% given that they will brazenly cruise through without even batting an eyelash. In my own observation, it is in fact 100%, but I have to allow the possibility that they might stop if a cop was sitting there.

    ... a cyclist is the one at most danger from this procedure, so why should you care unless you are the one that hits them and has your timetable altered?
    A number of reasons. First, practical concerns. If a cyclist decides to run the redlight and smear himself across the front of an SUV, stopping traffic in all directions, that affects me. It's a public safety matter. Second, going back to the OP, is the point-blank hypocrisy in effect. I watched a pack of cyclists blow through a stop sign and then castigate the driver for doing the same thing. Cyclists tootle around in their cars with these bumper stickers saying "Same road, same rules", but they have no intention of following traffic laws that are inconvenient.

    I've probably observed the same amount of drive-time assholery in both motorists and cyclists, no doubt about that. But the cyclists are worse because they feel that everyone else should defer to their precious heart rate training, that they should get a pass for breaking the law because it's just so haaaaaaard to cycle.

    I should also add that the main assholery seems to come from serious yuppi cyclists who are "training" for something. I have no beef with the average hairy hippie commuting to his Starbucks job... the sense of entitlement seems to be conspicuously lacking there.

  14. #14
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    [quote=Q.E.D.]
    Quote Originally posted by "ivan astikov":5i09nici
    I don't know how you can think cycling would not be less safe than driving. Just the factor of you not having a protective shell around you makes it measurably more dangerous.
    Except you'd be wrong.[/quote:5i09nici]

    My Purpose in Writing This Web Page

    There is absolutely no way that I can furnish definite proof that bicycling is a safe activity.
    At least he is honest.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  15. #15
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Are you able to debunk his statistical analysis or is quoting his disclaimer the best you can do? After all, you're the one who made the claim that cycling is more dangerous than driving in the first place; it's therefore incumbent upon you to back up that assertion.

  16. #16
    Curmudgeon OtakuLoki's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    2,836

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Q.E.D.
    Because there's next to no enforcement. How many cyclists have you seen pulled over by the police?

    One. Normally, however, the police don't seem to care until there's been an accident. At which point they may be willing to assign the blame to the cyclist. But that's not the way the assumptions will be at the beginning of the investigation.


    On preview - Q.E.D. that cite does show that bicycling is more dangerous than automobile travel: 0.016 fatalities per million travel miles for automobiles, compared to 0.039 fatalities per million travel miles for bicycling. Does that mean that I believe that biking is unsafe? No. Just that it's a measurably riskier mode of transport than using an automobile. Both those numbers strike me as pretty safe - though I'm still going to use safety equipment for both modes, thank you, and follow the rules of the road.

  17. #17
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Q.E.D.
    Are you able to debunk his statistical analysis or is quoting his disclaimer the best you can do? After all, you're the one who made the claim that cycling is more dangerous than driving in the first place; it's therefore incumbent upon you to back up that assertion.
    All of my data, except for one chart, is from the United States. The greatest problem with statistics from the US is that we have made only a feeble attempt to establish the amount of bicycling that takes place.
    Very reassuring.

    It seems both intuitive and logical that while a cyclist might more easily avoid a collision than a motorist,
    And how does this work? Motor vehicles tend to be moving faster than bicycles, and cyclists don't have rear view mirrors.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  18. #18
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by OtakuLoki
    On preview - Q.E.D. that cite does show that bicycling is more dangerous than automobile travel: 0.016 fatalities per million travel miles for automobiles, compared to 0.039 fatalities per million travel miles for bicycling.
    But, you just plucked out that figure without the accompanying analysis:
    Even though calculations based on exposure make more sense, as I have just explained, many vastly prefer statistics based on miles. However, data based on miles creates a bias. Consider a comparison between travel by jet with travel by car. Since the jet is 20 times faster, a comparison based on miles makes the jet look 20 times safer. Of course, if we are assuming the same distance will be covered, comparison by miles is quite fair, but bicycles and cars do not travel the same distance, as I just pointed out. Even a car-free cyclist is going to ride far below the 11,600 miles of the average motor vehicle.

    Thus, while the risk of a fatal injury per mile is nearly 2½ times greater for the cyclist, since cyclists travel shorter distances, the total risk is going to be less. Using these figures and 12,000 miles per year, there is a chance of 1/69 of being killed in or of killing someone else with a motor vehicle during a lifetime; for the occupants alone, the risk is 1/83. The lifetime risk for riding a bicycle will be given below.

  19. #19
    Elephant
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    806

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Me in 19,600 pound armored vehicle (empty weight), driving 30mph on a one-way street downtown in 2006. With green light, just entering intersection.

    Bicyclist driving on cross street, flashes across intersection having blown red light.

    Looking the other way

    Me:

    A fraction of a second earlier, and that man would have been splattered across the roadway and other vehicles like a water balloon. Would have ruined both our days. Sadly, I don't think the guy even noticed that he came within a fraction of a second of dying.


    A couple of months later, while starting our day, we passed a bloody smear on the pavement ending with a blood soaked blanket covering a body, many cops and a pickup truck driver who was pretty distraught. Female college student had decided that the light didn't apply to her.

    FAIL.
    I reserve the right to be bothered by things that don't faze you,
    and to cheerfully ignore things that bug the shit out of you.
    I am not you.

  20. #20
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Q.E.D.
    Quote Originally posted by OtakuLoki
    On preview - Q.E.D. that cite does show that bicycling is more dangerous than automobile travel: 0.016 fatalities per million travel miles for automobiles, compared to 0.039 fatalities per million travel miles for bicycling.
    But, you just plucked out that figure without the accompanying analysis:
    Even though calculations based on exposure make more sense, as I have just explained, many vastly prefer statistics based on miles. However, data based on miles creates a bias. Consider a comparison between travel by jet with travel by car. Since the jet is 20 times faster, a comparison based on miles makes the jet look 20 times safer. Of course, if we are assuming the same distance will be covered, comparison by miles is quite fair, but bicycles and cars do not travel the same distance, as I just pointed out. Even a car-free cyclist is going to ride far below the 11,600 miles of the average motor vehicle.

    Thus, while the risk of a fatal injury per mile is nearly 2½ times greater for the cyclist, since cyclists travel shorter distances, the total risk is going to be less. Using these figures and 12,000 miles per year, there is a chance of 1/69 of being killed in or of killing someone else with a motor vehicle during a lifetime; for the occupants alone, the risk is 1/83. The lifetime risk for riding a bicycle will be given below.
    Ah yes, but a 100 miles worth of travel in a car is completed quicker than a cyclists 100 miles, so the data should probably be based on time on the roads, not distance travelled. And as statistics are so sketchy, how reliable are they anyway?
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  21. #21
    Curmudgeon OtakuLoki's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    2,836

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Q.E.D.
    Quote Originally posted by OtakuLoki
    On preview - Q.E.D. that cite does show that bicycling is more dangerous than automobile travel: 0.016 fatalities per million travel miles for automobiles, compared to 0.039 fatalities per million travel miles for bicycling.
    But, you just plucked out that figure without the accompanying analysis:
    Even though calculations based on exposure make more sense, as I have just explained, many vastly prefer statistics based on miles. However, data based on miles creates a bias. Consider a comparison between travel by jet with travel by car. Since the jet is 20 times faster, a comparison based on miles makes the jet look 20 times safer. Of course, if we are assuming the same distance will be covered, comparison by miles is quite fair, but bicycles and cars do not travel the same distance, as I just pointed out. Even a car-free cyclist is going to ride far below the 11,600 miles of the average motor vehicle.

    Thus, while the risk of a fatal injury per mile is nearly 2½ times greater for the cyclist, since cyclists travel shorter distances, the total risk is going to be less. Using these figures and 12,000 miles per year, there is a chance of 1/69 of being killed in or of killing someone else with a motor vehicle during a lifetime; for the occupants alone, the risk is 1/83. The lifetime risk for riding a bicycle will be given below.
    Of course those odds are going to be applied to the total distance traveled. It's inherent to the units used. I was quite well aware of the implications of those units. That the individual bicyclist is going to be benefiting from the fact that compared to the individual automobile driver the bicyclist will be traveling fewer miles, and so will be exposed to the risk for a shorter time than the risk that the automobile driver is going to be exposed to. Which is the point of the statistic mentioned earlier in the article about the risk per aggregate time - million exposure hours. (0.47 fatalities per million exposure hours for motoring, vs. 0.26 fatalities per million exposure hours for bicycling. Both of which are substantially lower than the fatality rate per million exposure hours for living!) I chose to focus on the risk per aggregate travel simply because that is the standard that I've seen used most often for risk comparison between radically different modes of transit.

    And of course, statistical risk can be adjusted by simple precautions: I do not believe that the person who follows all traffic regulations while bicycling is going to be facing the same risk as the idiots who blow through stop lights or signs because they don't want to sacrifice their momentum.

    ETA: ivan astikov, as you can see from my own response the information you're looking for is in the cited article.

  22. #22
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    In fact, Riley Geary says that 56% of adult fatalities were caused by riding at night without lights.
    Actually they were caused by riding on the road at night without lights. If they'd been on the sidewalk they'd still be alive.(Possibly.)
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  23. #23
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    If they had been riding on the road with lights, they'd most likely be alive, too.

  24. #24
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Q.E.D.
    If they had been riding on the road with lights, they'd most likely be alive, too.
    Possibly. But with the best will and intent in the world, there are still going to be accidents on the roads, and if a cyclist is involved in one of them, I can't see how it can be up for dispute whether the cyclist is at more risk than the motor vehicle user. If my council can't even provide bike lanes on its main roads, why should I have to abide by their rules for cyclists?
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  25. #25
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    183

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    [quote=ivan astikov]
    Quote Originally posted by "Q.E.D.":x6wr2qk7
    If they had been riding on the road with lights, they'd most likely be alive, too.
    Possibly. But with the best will and intent in the world, there are still going to be accidents on the roads, and if a cyclist is involved in one of them, I can't see how it can be up for dispute whether the cyclist is at more risk than the motor vehicle user. If my council can't even provide bike lanes on its main roads, why should I have to abide by their rules for cyclists?[/quote:x6wr2qk7]
    Good luck explaining that to:
    (a) my bumper, when it squashes you as you're running a red light unbeknownst to me, and
    (b) the investigating cop, as he's writing you a ticket for being an asshole and getting gore on my bumper.

    You abide by the rules because that's what is expected of a law-abiding citizen. You abide by traffic rules because that's what is expected of people who want to keep their viscera firmly tucked into the appointed location in their abdominal cavity..

  26. #26
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov
    If my council can't even provide bike lanes on its main roads, why should I have to abide by their rules for cyclists?
    Since you're so concerned with safety, perhaps you can explain to me how breaking all these rules is a wise idea?

  27. #27
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    QLD, Australia
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Personally, I think that cyclists should have to give way to cars on roads. Drivers pay car registrations, road taxes, fuel taxes, and so on to use the roads, whereas cyclists get to use the same roads without paying a cent.

    Therefore, they have less right to be on the road than drivers, IMHO.

    Look, cycling is great when there's dedicated cycle lanes and all that sort of stuff. That's fun. But in the CBD of any major city there just isn't enough room for cars and bikes to peacefully co-exist, IMHO.

  28. #28
    Oliphaunt Baldwin's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    1,031

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    [quote=ivan astikov]
    Quote Originally posted by "Q.E.D.":3da9mqi9
    If they had been riding on the road with lights, they'd most likely be alive, too.
    Possibly. But with the best will and intent in the world, there are still going to be accidents on the roads, and if a cyclist is involved in one of them, I can't see how it can be up for dispute whether the cyclist is at more risk than the motor vehicle user. If my council can't even provide bike lanes on its main roads, why should I have to abide by their rules for cyclists?[/quote:3da9mqi9]
    Because, Jailbird, other people have rights too. I don't think that's ever really sunk in for you.

  29. #29
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sannazay, Californy
    Posts
    376

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    I dated a woman who was a hard-core cyclist for a couple of years. I rode with the local cycling club and did a couple of Centuries with her. My general impression of "serious" cyclists is that they are a pretty arrogant bunch.

  30. #30
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    685

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Martini Enfield
    Personally, I think that cyclists should have to give way to cars on roads. Drivers pay car registrations, road taxes, fuel taxes, and so on to use the roads, whereas cyclists get to use the same roads without paying a cent.
    I would venture a guess that many of these bicyclists also own vehicles.
    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth - Marcus Aurelius

  31. #31
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    QLD, Australia
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by criminey.jicket
    I would venture a guess that many of these bicyclists also own vehicles.
    That's no doubt true. But the car-based taxes and registrations and fees they pay entitle them to drive that particular vehicle on the road. You don't get to try and avoid paying a second car registration fee just because you already own one car that you're paying fees and taxes on. Bicycles should be the same.

  32. #32
    Member Raymond Onion's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    There are three stops signs on a stretch of my street that I travel frequently. They are all three-way stops, for streets that go a block or two and then end in a cul-de-sac, and they are there only because the people who live in those cul-de-sacs are rich. There is no reason they couldn't access the street without having to stop traffic all around. And in fact the people who live on the cul-de-sacs will only stop if there's quite a bit of traffic, or a cop. In other words, if they have to. It seems optional to them.

    When I'm riding a bicycle it's also optional to me. I don't stop at these signs. I barely slow down. If someone's sitting at one of the stop signs waiting to turn onto the street, and I should note here that turning is the only option for them in all cases, then I'll slow down until they make their turn, but I won't stop. I can see whether I need to slow down in plenty of time to slow down, particularly if I'm headed uphill.

    In my car, I always stop. Or anyway I get pretty close.

    The reason: for bicycles, coming to a full stop and waiting the prescribed 3 seconds necessitates putting one foot down on the ground, or at least it does for most of us. For those of us wearing special biking shoes that attach to the pedal, or using cages or straps, this means a couple of strides of refitting the aid to the pedal, and then it would have to be done again at the next light.

    If I were on a bicycle, I would probably bitch about a car that ran a sign or a light. If I were in a car, I wouldn't necessaily rail against a bicyclist who did the same.

  33. #33
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    685

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Martini Enfield
    You don't get to try and avoid paying a second car registration fee just because you already own one car that you're paying fees and taxes on. Bicycles should be the same.
    I meant that the vehicles owned by some of these bicyclists are sitting home idle and unused by someone else while they're out biking.

    So you think a household of two adults where one cycles and other drives to work should be made to purchase, license, and insure another vehicle? Do you really think bikes put as much wear and tear on a roadway as vehicles?

    That ain't right.
    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth - Marcus Aurelius

  34. #34
    Jesus F'ing Christ Glazer's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga. U.S.A. (Male)
    Posts
    1,485

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Yes cyclist should be licensed and carry insurance. That way if they don't follow the rules of the road that licecse can be taken away. And if someone hits a tree trying not to kill one doing something stupid, like in the OP, they should have insurance to cover it.
    Welcome to Mellophant.

    We started with nothing and we still have most of it left.

  35. #35
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    QLD, Australia
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by criminey.jicket
    I meant that the vehicles owned by some of these bicyclists are sitting home idle and unused by someone else while they're out biking.
    I know what you meant. My point remains unchanged. They've chosen to leave their car at home. Good for them. The "Road Use Fees" for that vehicle should not automatically transmit to the bike they've decided to use instead.

    So you think a household of two adults where one cycles and other drives to work should be made to purchase, license, and insure another vehicle?
    I do think that bicycles should be subject to a registration fee or a use tax of some kind. So, under those circumstances, yes, yes I do.

    Do you really think bikes put as much wear and tear on a roadway as vehicles?
    It's got nothing to do with wear and tear on the roadways. It's about the fact owning and operating a vehicle costs a lot of money- far more than the wear and tear they cause on the roads- and cyclists want the same- or more- road use rights as car drivers, yet they (cyclists) aren't actually paying for them.

    I don't think we need cycle licences or anything quite that drastic, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect cyclists to contribute something monetarily-it doesn't have to be much- to use the same roads as motor vehicles in places like city CBDs and other places where there's just not enough room for cars and bikes to share the road.

  36. #36
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    I know it shouldn't, but it tickles me that the author of the comprehensive website advocating cycle safety linked above, actually died by being hit by a drunken driver whilst cycling.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  37. #37
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    And guess what? Running stop signs and traffic lights or disregarding other traffic rules absolutely increases the odds of that happening to you.

  38. #38
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Q.E.D.
    And guess what? Running stop signs and traffic lights or disregarding other traffic rules absolutely increases the odds of that happening to you.
    And yet, after 10 years of cycling, 5 as a respectful user of the road and its rules, during which I came off my bike 3 times because of other road users, and had countless near misses, the latter 5, where I've made up my own rules has resulted in no mishaps whatsoever.

    All the statistics really point out is that the more time you spend on the roads, the more likely it is you will eventually get hit by an automobile.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  39. #39
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    628

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Cyclists should be subject to all the same traffic rules and laws as motor vehicles are. If they're not willing to abide by the same rules as other vehicles, then they need to take their toys to the park with the other kids.

  40. #40
    I've had better days, but I don't care! hatesfreedom's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,127

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    We should also restart the Federal Work Programs. There jobs will be to improve remote national parks, build community bike paths, and international jobs in foreign countries in need of rebuilding. Through the great and mighty recession we can finally afford cheap labor on such grand size. Behold my glory comrades!

  41. #41
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    685

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Martini, I've typed and deleted a couple responses now. I'm sorry, but our twain shall never meet on this subject. Some people were taught to share or they prefer to; some people weren't or do not.


    c.j. <------ goes wide and long around bikes.
    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth - Marcus Aurelius

  42. #42
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gently orbiting the Earth
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Martini Enfield
    Personally, I think that cyclists should have to give way to cars on roads. Drivers pay car registrations, road taxes, fuel taxes, and so on to use the roads, whereas cyclists get to use the same roads without paying a cent.

    Therefore, they have less right to be on the road than drivers, IMHO.

    Look, cycling is great when there's dedicated cycle lanes and all that sort of stuff. That's fun. But in the CBD of any major city there just isn't enough room for cars and bikes to peacefully co-exist, IMHO.
    Actually, in Australia (not sure about other countries) car registration does not contribute towards road maintenance. Registration simply pays for registering the vehicle and insurance - TAC charges and petrol taxes also don't contribute to road funding. Roads and infrastructure are maintained through council rates and state and federal taxes (incl GST). Therefore regardless of whether you own a car or not, bikes have as much right on the road as a car driver.

    I commute to work into Melbourne CBD, and there is plenty of room for both cars and bikes. What it simply requires is consideration from both parties. Cars need to be aware of, and actively looking out for bikes - and cyclists in return need to be predictable, visible, and obey the road rules that apply to them (noting that these differ in some cases from other vehicles on the road - i.e bikes can ride two abreast legally).

    It would be good if this thread could stop with the wide sweeping 'all cyclists' statements though. The vast majority of all cyclists I see (and I both commute and have ridden in a peleton) are abiding by the road rules that apply to them - it's just that car drivers don't always understand that there is a difference. Stopping at red lights is not one of these cases though - that's manditory.

  43. #43
    Oliphaunt
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,174

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Girl from Mars
    It would be good if this thread could stop with the wide sweeping 'all cyclists' statements though. The vast majority of all cyclists I see (and I both commute and have ridden in a peleton) are abiding by the road rules that apply to them - it's just that car drivers don't always understand that there is a difference. Stopping at red lights is not one of these cases though - that's manditory.
    I have never, in nearly 10 years of living in Boston and San Francisco, ever seen a bicyclist stop at a red light. Not once. Not even when I was a in a crosswalk, with the light on my side. No indeed, the cyclist just thought I was some sort of clever hologram, until they plowed me over, landed (with their bike) on top of me, and then got up and rode off with barely a word.

    I'm probably unduly antagonistic. Having one's head bounced off the pavement with nary a word of apology will do that to a gal.

    Perhaps the cyclists in Australia and the UK are more reasonable.

  44. #44
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gently orbiting the Earth
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Orual
    Perhaps the cyclists in Australia and the UK are more reasonable.
    Perhaps. It's anecdotal, but I've just asked all my work colleagues whether in their experience, bikes stop at red lights, and the concensus was that they do. Maybe a difference between countries.

  45. #45
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    580

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Girl from Mars
    It's anecdotal, but I've just asked all my work colleagues whether in their experience, bikes stop at red lights, and the concensus was that they do.
    Yeah, well, the disconnect between what people claim they do and what they actually do is oftentimes staggering.

  46. #46
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gently orbiting the Earth
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Q.E.D.
    Yeah, well, the disconnect between what people claim they do and what they actually do is oftentimes staggering.
    Sorry - to clarify - I am the only bike commuter - everyone else drives, uses public transport or is a pedestrian. So I was asking what they observed of cyclists, not what they do themselves.

  47. #47
    Stegodon
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    QLD, Australia
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    I will say that I rarely see cyclists running red lights here- it's more likely to be "riding 2-3 abreast on narrow roads slowing everyone else down to 15 km/h"

    I also know that at least some of car registration costs in QLD go towards road maintenance etc- there's a "Traffic Improvement Fee" built into it, so drivers here are, in at least some sense, paying a fee to use the roads (or at least cover the maintenance on them).

  48. #48
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    628

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    I certainly wouldn't say that all cyclists are assholes, but in Boston I've never seen one stop at a red light, and they seem to treat "left on red" as a sport, if not a sacred birthright.

  49. #49
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gently orbiting the Earth
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    Quote Originally posted by Martini Enfield
    I also know that at least some of car registration costs in QLD go towards road maintenance etc- there's a "Traffic Improvement Fee" built into it, so drivers here are, in at least some sense, paying a fee to use the roads (or at least cover the maintenance on them).
    I've not heard about that before, certainly not the case in Victoria. That being said, that fee is only around $40 a year (of the average $200-$500 registration fee), which doesn't cover the full cost of investment. For example, in 2005 Queensland collected just over $800 million in vehicle registration fees and spent over $2 billion on road capital funding in Queensland (with a planned $10 billion from 2005-2010).

    This additional funding will be coming from state and local taxes (plus GST), so cyclists could arguably be contributing just as much as a driver, particularly if they are a home owner, or own a car as well.

  50. #50
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default Re: Cyclists are assholes.

    It does seem a little that auto users resent that they have to pay taxes to get from A to B in relative ease and comfort.

    Quick question. Do horse-riders have to road tax their transportation?
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

+ Reply to thread

Posting rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts