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Thread: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

  1. #1
    Oliphaunt
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    Default Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    Source.

    A couple of British tabloid columnists seem to be fanning the flames of Obama hate, specifically in regards to Prime Minister Brown's visit. It wasn't enough of a big deal, they complain.

    But isn't it a breach of protocol to treat a Head of Government (which Brown is) as a Head of State (which Brown isn't)? Wouldn't it be the Queen who would get the state visit rollout?

  2. #2
    Stegodon
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    Might be more to do with the fact that Obama gave him the same level of precedence as the boy scouts, who he cut the visit short to meet with. Also the fact that the state gift from th US to the UK was a set of Region 1 Classic Movie DVDs, unusable in the UK and given to a stateleader who is partially blind.

    Of course, since Brown was busy at the time trying to say the entire economic crisis was America's fault, it is perhaps understandable Obama might not want to speak to him and as a popular leader, Obama would be unwise to support too firmly one who is likely to be voted out.

    What is surprising are the comments on the Times piece linked from that article Timesonline whereq quite a few Americans seem to feel it was a snub.

  3. #3
    Stegodon Boozahol Squid, P.I.'s avatar
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    I believe the complaint is founded on the fact that every other meeting between a British Prime Minister and an American President has been met with a certain level of pomp and ceremony. The fact that Brown isn't the Head of State of the UK really doesn't weigh in: he's still the representative of the UK in foreign affairs.

    Some of the factors that are being brought up tend to focus on things that seem petty, but sort of point, in toto, to a lack of respect by Obama for the relationship we have with the Brits:

    Photo Ops:
    Brown expected the usual phot op that every British Prime Minsiter and US Prez have had for years. Meetings between Reagan and Thatcher, Bush and Major, and Blair and both Clinton and Bush were accorded a big-to-do: pictures in the Oval Office and Blue Room. Obama apparently didn't want to schedule the time required. While he might have other things to do, usually the 'special relationship' we have with the Brits means that there's no question about making time.

    Press conference:
    The usual gigundus press conference, which had been planned to be held in the Rose Garden, was cancelled due to inclement weather. In these circumstances, usually it would be moved indoors instead of cancelled outright. Instead, a smaller 'pool spray' was planned, which was just a few handshakes between the men, instead of a full conference with discussion and extended question opportunities

    Gifts:
    Perhaps the pettiest of all, but the least understandable. Brown gave Obama a suitable 'leader of countries' gift: a pen set crafted from the wood of some ship whose significance escapes me (and I don't have the energy to look up, mea culpa). Barack, in return, gave Brown a DVD set: the sort of thing you'd give your brother-in-law whom you don't really know for Christmas. Also, Brown brought some gifts for the Obama girls which were very nice, and Obama's gifts for Brown's sons were gotten at the White House gift shop. (a pair of helicopters which honestly look like they'd be fun to play with if you were an elementary school kid). It's the lack of forethought that any White House aid -could- have put into the gifts, had they been so tasked, but didn't.

    Busts:
    Another petty one, but that baffles why Obama didn't do something else. There was a bust of Churchill somewhere in the White House. Obama replaced it with one of Lincoln. There's plenty of space in the White House, why Churchill didn't just get moved just seems like a lack of concern for British sentiments.

  4. #4
    Stegodon Boozahol Squid, P.I.'s avatar
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    Quote Originally posted by tirial
    Also the fact that the state gift from th US to the UK was a set of Region 1 Classic Movie DVDs, unusable in the UK and given to a stateleader who is partially blind.
    Hah. I didn't think about the blind bit. You'd think Gordon could scare up a regionless DVD player, though. Particularly useful after any state visits to China or Southeast Asia.

    Quote Originally posted by tirial
    Of course, since Brown was busy at the time trying to say the entire economic crisis was America's fault, it is perhaps understandable Obama might not want to speak to him and as a popular leader, Obama would be unwise to support too firmly one who is likely to be voted out.
    Doesn't matter who the man is, or what he's done: there's an expectation to honor the office he holds via his person.

  5. #5
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    Quote Originally posted by Boozahol Squid, P.I.
    I believe the complaint is founded on the fact that every other meeting between a British Prime Minister and an American President has been met with a certain level of pomp and ceremony. The fact that Brown isn't the Head of State of the UK really doesn't weigh in: he's still the representative of the UK in foreign affairs.

    Some of the factors that are being brought up tend to focus on things that seem petty, but sort of point, in toto, to a lack of respect by Obama for the relationship we have with the Brits:

    Photo Ops:
    Brown expected the usual phot op that every British Prime Minsiter and US Prez have had for years. Meetings between Reagan and Thatcher, Bush and Major, and Blair and both Clinton and Bush were accorded a big-to-do: pictures in the Oval Office and Blue Room. Obama apparently didn't want to schedule the time required. While he might have other things to do, usually the 'special relationship' we have with the Brits means that there's no question about making time.

    Press conference:
    The usual gigundus press conference, which had been planned to be held in the Rose Garden, was cancelled due to inclement weather. In these circumstances, usually it would be moved indoors instead of cancelled outright. Instead, a smaller 'pool spray' was planned, which was just a few handshakes between the men, instead of a full conference with discussion and extended question opportunities
    I don't even see why politicians have to make these trips at all. We are living in a time when communication is easier than ever before, and I see no need for these unnecessary risks and expenses.
    Quote Originally posted by Boozahol Squid, P.I.
    Gifts:
    Perhaps the pettiest of all, but the least understandable. Brown gave Obama a suitable 'leader of countries' gift: a pen set crafted from the wood of some ship whose significance escapes me (and I don't have the energy to look up, mea culpa). Barack, in return, gave Brown a DVD set: the sort of thing you'd give your brother-in-law whom you don't really know for Christmas. Also, Brown brought some gifts for the Obama girls which were very nice, and Obama's gifts for Brown's sons were gotten at the White House gift shop. (a pair of helicopters which honestly look like they'd be fun to play with if you were an elementary school kid). It's the lack of forethought that any White House aid -could- have put into the gifts, had they been so tasked, but didn't.
    Here, I would have minded if the gifts were to be sold or auctioned off for charity, but I don't see any need for world leaders giving each other trinkets at the public's expense. If any of them have been bought out a world leader's own pocket, I apologise to that one profusely.
    Quote Originally posted by Boozahol Squid, P.I.
    Busts:
    Another petty one, but that baffles why Obama didn't do something else. There was a bust of Churchill somewhere in the White House. Obama replaced it with one of Lincoln. There's plenty of space in the White House, why Churchill didn't just get moved just seems like a lack of concern for British sentiments.
    Here, I'd have just turned it to face the wall or got a bust made of a bulldog's ass and placed them as a pair somewhere prominent.

    ( If I'm not meant to make those type of responses in Q and A, just say so. I won't do it again, if so.)
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  6. #6
    Elephant TheFlame's avatar
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    [modhat:1y6xjxz8]Moved to Capitol Hill[/modhat:1y6xjxz8], where a more open-ended discussion of Brown's visit can take place.
    I didn't make the world this way, it was like this when I got here

  7. #7
    Stegodon Boozahol Squid, P.I.'s avatar
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov
    Here, I'd have just turned it to face the wall or got a bust made of a bulldog's ass and placed them as a pair somewhere prominent.

    ( If I'm not meant to make those type of responses in Q and A, just say so. I won't do it again, if so.)
    Any particular reason to snark at one of the most beloved and well-respected politicians of the 20th century? Or just snark for snark's sake?

  8. #8
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    [quote=Boozahol Squid, P.I.]
    Quote Originally posted by "ivan astikov":1ns4vlwl
    Here, I'd have just turned it to face the wall or got a bust made of a bulldog's ass and placed them as a pair somewhere prominent.

    ( If I'm not meant to make those type of responses in Q and A, just say so. I won't do it again, if so.)
    Any particular reason to snark at one of the most beloved and well-respected politicians of the 20th century? Or just snark for snark's sake?[/quote:1ns4vlwl]

    My mum dislikes him and she is a fairly good judge of character. He doesn't interest me enough to delve any deeper, I'll just take her word for it.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  9. #9
    Stegodon Boozahol Squid, P.I.'s avatar
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov
    My mum dislikes him and she is a fairly good judge of character. He doesn't interest me enough to delve any deeper, I'll just take her word for it.
    We'd have to go the the Thunderdome for me to properly comment on your mother. So I'll leave it at that.

  10. #10
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    [quote=Boozahol Squid, P.I.]
    Quote Originally posted by "ivan astikov":2isz4h34
    My mum dislikes him and she is a fairly good judge of character. He doesn't interest me enough to delve any deeper, I'll just take her word for it.
    We'd have to go the the Thunderdome for me to properly comment on your mother. So I'll leave it at that. [/quote:2isz4h34]

    Yes, let's not go there. Winston isn't/wasn't worth it.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    I thought it was pretty pathetic. It gives the impression that a bunch of incompetents are running the place. It's just embarrassing, at a time when it would be really nice for things to go smoothly and competently.

    Perhaps it's not an event of earth-shaking significance or anything, but it wasn't exactly a move designed to inspire confidence either.
    Not all who wander are lost. -JRRT

  12. #12
    Sophmoric Existentialist
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    Since the British press is currently deprived of its usual fodder of royal scandals and politicians murmuring state secrets to prostitutes, this comes at a timely moment. Something to sell papers, and little else. No doubt some prince or MP will soon have his manly bits in the wrong place and the Eye of The Press will move on. Or maybe Becks will come back to play in Manchester - think of it!!

    There will no doubt be plenty of valid reasons to criticize Mr. Obama, but I really really really really don't think this little tempest in a teapot is one of them.

    Mr. Obama admires Abraham Lincoln more than he admires Winston Churchill? And that surprises people why? If that is, in fact, the reason for moving the bust. Mr. Obama's staff, in office only weeks, may have fumbled the ball a bit? This was not a State Visit. A State Visit is when Liz and Phil come to stay the night.

    One of the rightwing blogs has started a campaign for Americans to apologize to Britain by mailing letters to some embassy or other. So there you are. If you feel that your nation's honour and reputation have been besmirched by these appalling incidents, if you feel that "hands across the water" is no longer a theme song for your relations with Britain and that all over Britain angry pensioners are fomenting an invasion with a view to putting Winnie back on the pedestal, then go to the website, sign up, and do your part.
    Sophmoric Existentialist

  13. #13
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    Default Well, parts of the British press...

    The Telegraph obviously has had a field day with this, but that is to be expected: The Telegraph absolutely hates Brown and the fact that his party is in charge. Being a right-wing paper, they have little use for Obama either. So for them to interpret the situation as Obama being a bumbling buffoon and Brown a lightweight who's not taken seriously is pretty much to be expected. The Guardian (left-wing paper) had a giggle over GWB's bomber jacket present to Brown and the fact that he chose not to keep it, but at the time nobody gave a shit.

    It is my understanding that the Churchill bust was a specific loan to GWB, not the White House per se. While I'm a huge fan of Churchill, there's only so much room in the Oval Office, and the Telegraph would have bitched about how Winston was "moved to a broom closet" if Obama had it moved . This is one of those unwinnable situations.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Well, parts of the British press...

    Quote Originally posted by Spiny Norman
    Being a right-wing paper, they have little use for Obama either.
    I'm not sure that's necessarily so. I mean, they're right-wing for here, but that's still pretty lefty compared to American politics.
    Opportunity is missed by most people, because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Edison

  15. #15
    Head Heathen Katriona's avatar
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    Default Re: Why was the British press angry about Brown's visit to US?

    Quote Originally posted by Boozahol Squid, P.I.

    Busts:
    Another petty one, but that baffles why Obama didn't do something else. There was a bust of Churchill somewhere in the White House. Obama replaced it with one of Lincoln. There's plenty of space in the White House, why Churchill didn't just get moved just seems like a lack of concern for British sentiments.
    According to this, the bust was moved even before the inaguration. http://www.newsweek.com/id/185839

    I also read somewhere that the bust was, in fact, on loan, and was returned. But I can't remember where I read it and can't find the cite.

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