+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: How are the world's airlines faring since 9/11?

  1. #1
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default How are the world's airlines faring since 9/11?

    Has there been any drop-off in passengers since the events of that day, either Stateside or worldwide?

    Or, on a slightly related slant - has there been any lessening in the popularity of high-rise office space?


    Dagnabbit! This should have been a new thread. Please can you correct my cock-up, nice mod people?
    Last edited by ivan astikov; 31 Dec 2009 at 07:49 AM.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  2. #2
    Stegodon kk fusion's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    France/Germany
    Posts
    298

    Default

    See the tables here. The annual passenger numbers of 2000 have long been surpassed worldwide.

    The second question would be harder to tell - I guess the real estate crisis has had a much larger impact on the demand for office space than the fear of rogue planes.

  3. #3
    aka ivan the not-quite-as-terrible ivan astikov's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    moston, UK.
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    Hmmm...so I see. But interestingly, New York, the most affected by airplane catastrophe, has the smallest increase (along with Tokyo, less interestingly.).
    Last edited by ivan astikov; 06 Jan 2010 at 07:09 AM.
    To sleep, perchance to experience amygdalocortical activation and prefrontal deactivation.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by kk fusion View post
    See the tables here. The annual passenger numbers of 2000 have long been surpassed worldwide.
    I am not sure what you mean by "long" but I believe it took some years for that to happen in the USA and even comparing 2000 with 2008 does not show a huge improvement. I am not about to compare every year between 2000 and 2008 but

    Comparing numbers from 2000 and 2008 for airports which are in the top 30 for both years:

    Traffic in ATLANTA (ATL) , CHICAGO (ORD) , LOS ANGELES (LAX) , DALLAS/FT WORTH (DFW) , SAN FRANCISCO (SFO) , DENVER (DEN) , LAS VEGAS (LAS) , MINNEAPOLIS/ST PAUL (MSP) , PHOENIX (PHX) , DETROIT (DTW) , NEWARK (EWR) , MIAMI (MIA) , NEW YORK (JFK)

    Has grown by 4.8% which is 0.67% annually which is dismal and represents a decline in real terms when compared to the overall economy.


    while traffic in LONDON (LHR) , FRANKFURT/MAIN (FRA) , PARIS (CDG) , AMSTERDAM (AMS) , MADRID (MAD) , LONDON (LGW)

    has grown by 17.7% which is 2% annually which I would consider more normal in a mature market (I guess)


    and traffic in TOKYO (HND) , HONG KONG (HKG) , BANGKOK (BKK) , SINGAPORE (SIN)

    has grown by 29.5% which is 3.3% annually


    These four US airports disappeared from the top 30 list:
    ORLANDO (MCO) , ST LOUIS (STL) , SEATTLE (SEA) , BOSTON (BOS)
    while only Seoul falls off in Asia and no airports in Europe.

    New appearances in the top 30 are
    ORLANDO FL (MCO) , CHARLOTTE NC (CLT) in the USA
    ROME (FCO) , MUNICH (MUC) in Europe
    BEIJING (PEK) , DUBAI (DXB) in Asia and Middle East


    I believe the lower American growth would be mostly due to lower international travel due to bureaucratic, security and other hassles. If we could separate the numbers of domestic and international travelers I think we would see the real cause of the tiny growth is in a fall in international travelers.

    The world had a tourism boom in the middle of the decade and the USA was mostly left out for this reason in spite of the cheap value of the USD. Not only is America losing foreign travelers but also losing the income they bring to the country. After 2001 I pretty much avoided traveling to the USA and the airlines lost some income from this but more income was lost by my dentist with whom I used to spend thousands of dollars annually, the businesses which used to maintain my sailboat, etc.

    China is fast becoming a huge source of tourists in Europe but America still makes it too difficult for the average Chinese to travel to America.

    Getting a visa to visit America is a nightmare anywhere but more so in China. To apply for an American visa you have to call a toll number just to get an appointment for a personal interview. The call is complicated and expensive. A lady I know called the US consulate in Guangzhou only to find the person she needed to talk to only spoke Mandarin, no Cantonese. She had bought a calling card to pay for the call and the card ran out before she could get anything done so she had to buy another card and get someone who spoke Mandarin.

    Then you have to go in person to the consulate, maybe travel hundreds of miles, only to have the officer deny your application without even looking at all the supporting documents which took you days to collect. The non-refundable application fee is over $100 which is a small fortune in China. Add the toll calls and other expenses and you may be talking at least $150 or $200. All the expense and effort only to see the officer who is in a hurry deny the application without even looking at the papers. Many come out with the notion that the US government is running a racket and I can’t blame them. But they spread the word and their friends then choose to travel to Europe or Asia without even trying the USA.

    This lady was planning on visiting her daughter in the USA. They are both well off and could easily post some bond to guarantee the timely departure but the US government does not accept this. They have finally decided to enjoy a vacation together in Europe.

    The whole toll number thing gives the image of the USA being a third world country in desperate need of a few dollars. I believe these policies are just foolish and counterproductive. President Bush’s attitude of “screw the rest of the world” did not help.

    There are hundreds of thousands of south American immigrants in Spain and they travel home regularly. Miami used to be a very common transfer airport until the US government started requiring visas etc and most of that traffic went to Mexico as transfer airport. This means lost revenue for American carriers and gained revenue for others.

    I know a couple who had promised their son a family trip to NYC but ended up going to Argentina instead because of the hassle involved. Most people do not want to be humiliated and harassed.

    Anecdote: Between 1986 and 2001 I flew transatlantic round trip about 2 ~ 2.5 times a year plus other trips to Asia, etc. Most of those flights were on US flag carriers. Since 2002 I have flown transatlantic about 3 times while my travels to Asia have increased and none of these flights were on US flag carriers which I intend to shun for the foreseeable future.

    It is sad to see America shoot itself in the foot like this but for the time being I just do not see these policies being reversed so I expect that America will continue to lose air traffic and passenger share of the world total. Asia and specially China will probably continue to gain share for the foreseeable future.


    It would be interesting to see data by airline rather than by airport. My guess is that US carriers have fared worse than European or Asian. Anyone have some data?
    Last edited by sailor; 06 Jan 2010 at 11:40 AM.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by ivan astikov View post
    Hmmm...so I see. But interestingly, New York, the most affected by airplane catastrophe, has the smallest increase (along with Tokyo, less interestingly.).
    Again, I think the reason is that airports with more international traffic suffered more while those with domestic traffic suffered less.

    People do not want the hassle of international travel in and out of the USA so foreigners stayed away and Americans who still wanted to fly would choose to stay in the USA. Also, the high value of the Euro kept Americans away from Europe. I know of a business which specialises in Travel in Spain for Americans and they have been going through very rough times. The dollar just does not buy what it used to. Another reason to stay home.

  6. #6
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    5,891

    Default

    Anecdotally I can tell you that there seems to be a lot fewer flights than there used to be. My boss flies weekly, to various domestic locations (sometimes multiple cities in a week), and I help work out her flights and schedules. It's become much more frustrating than it was in years past to get her where she needs to be, and a lot more of her schedule is worked around the flights than being able to pick flights according to her schedule like we used to do.

  7. #7
    Jesus F'ing Christ Glazer's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga. U.S.A. (Male)
    Posts
    1,485

    Default

    sailor nice to see you drop by. Hope to see you more often.
    Welcome to Mellophant.

    We started with nothing and we still have most of it left.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by Glazer View post
    sailor nice to see you drop by. Hope to see you more often.
    Thanks. We shall see.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    28

    Default

    American airline and hospitality insdustries are in crisis due to lowered travel levels by foreigners to the USA. So what do lawmakers propose? Tax tourists! That will surely make them want to come to America!
    http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Politic...ory?id=9960415

    President Obama in the coming days is expected to sign the "Travel Promotion Act," a bipartisan bill that passed the Senate last week by an overwhelming majority.

    The bill would impose a $10 fee on travelers who do not need to pay for a visa to enter the United States.
    ...
    "It's absolutely counterintuitive," said Steve Lott, a spokesman for International Air Transport Association, which represents the airline industry.

    "To us, we're saying we'd love to see more people visit the United States, but we're going to charge you more for the privilege of entering the country," he added.
    ...
    Critics charge that at a time when international travelers are hesitant to visit the United States because of stringent security measures, the legislation is unnecessary. Tourism professionals counter by saying the program is essentially designed to spread more awareness about security and travel procedures, and it will help rather than deter visitors.
    Yeah, sure. Charge me ten dollars and then spend it explaining to me why I need to be harassed and why it is all for the ultimate good of America. Makes sense.
    Last edited by sailor; 01 Mar 2010 at 12:08 PM.

  10. #10
    Jesus F'ing Christ Glazer's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga. U.S.A. (Male)
    Posts
    1,485

    Default

    Quote Originally posted by sailor View post
    American airline and hospitality insdustries are in crisis due to lowered travel levels by foreigners to the USA. So what do lawmakers propose? Tax tourists! That will surely make them want to come to America!
    http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Politic...ory?id=9960415

    President Obama in the coming days is expected to sign the "Travel Promotion Act," a bipartisan bill that passed the Senate last week by an overwhelming majority.

    The bill would impose a $10 fee on travelers who do not need to pay for a visa to enter the United States.
    ...
    "It's absolutely counterintuitive," said Steve Lott, a spokesman for International Air Transport Association, which represents the airline industry.

    "To us, we're saying we'd love to see more people visit the United States, but we're going to charge you more for the privilege of entering the country," he added.
    ...
    Critics charge that at a time when international travelers are hesitant to visit the United States because of stringent security measures, the legislation is unnecessary. Tourism professionals counter by saying the program is essentially designed to spread more awareness about security and travel procedures, and it will help rather than deter visitors.
    Yeah, sure. Charge me ten dollars and then spend it explaining to me why I need to be harassed and why it is all for the ultimate good of America. Makes sense.
    Not only is there a $10 cover but we have a 2 drink minimum!
    Welcome to Mellophant.

    We started with nothing and we still have most of it left.

+ Reply to thread

Posting rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts