Coffee: Instant vs real, makers, brands, tell us why Starbucks sucks ;)

[What Exit?]

The Coffee thread. Inspired from Chat.

I found the Starbucks coffee is overpriced and overcooked. I also found the coffee itself is not very good and skunks surprisingly fast.

A good Drip Maker is fast and easy.

I think it is mostly older Americans at this point that use Instant Coffee. Those 60+.

[3EyedZack]

I don't think much of anyone uses instant coffee anymore. Have to examine the situation with some googling when I return but I bet even those 60 and up despise that nasty instant crap.

[NAF1138]

I don't think Starbucks sucks, and I am a coffee snob. Starbucks has a unique flavor profile, to be sure, and many of their roasts aren't worth drinking, but their original Pikes Place blend is really quite fantastic.

The best pot of coffee I have ever had was made with Illy brand beans and served in a french press. It was dark, rich and perfect. Everything you want coffee to be. I loved it so much I went out and bought a french press for myself so I could have such great coffee at home, but have never gotten it to be quite as good as that first pot.

Let's talk favorite roastings, shall we? I am not a fan of French of Italian roasts. They are too dark for me and taste too little like coffee. I can do a lighter French roast, but my ideal would be a Vienna. I want to taste the beans (and caffine) in the coffee, not just the roasting.

Espresso, of course, is a totally differnt beast. It gets roasted so dark that it becomes something totally different.

And, I think I had instant coffee once when I was a teenager. It's not something I would willingly do again.

[Winston Smith]

I drink starbucks coffee at home (usually house or breakfast blend) brewed in a Cuisinart Drip Maker. I like the flavor. I don't know that the price is that unreasonable, though. We pay $8 or $9 per pound for it, and the bag lasts about two weeks. The canned coffees, like Maxwell House or Chock Full O' Nuts are cheaper, but are sort of watery-tasting. If I'm drinking it with cream and sugar (which is rare), I don't mind the canned coffees, but I usually drink it black, and I need some actual flavor in there.

If I had the money, I'd buy Kona Coffee from Hawaii. That is BY FAR the best coffee on the planet. But, at $20 to $50 per pound it's way out of my price range.

[Fenris]

Best coffee ever is made in a vacuum pot.



You put water at the bottom. The top part has a filter and the grounds go on the top. As the water boils, the pressure forces water up into the top chamber where it mixes with the grounds. When you take it off the heat, the vacuum in the bottom sucks the coffee-water through the filter and into the bottom of the pot.

Totally, absolutely perfect coffee every single time.

The pot is expensive, but it's a one-shot expense since it'll last a lifetime.

http://www.amazon.com/Bodum-Santos-Stov ... 293&sr=8-1

[Winston Smith]

I'll drink instant - I used to camp a lot, and we usually drank instant coffee around the campfire. It's definitely got a distinctive flavor, but not entirely unpleasant.

[NAF1138]

Best coffee ever is made in a vacuum pot.



You put water at the bottom. The top part has a filter and the grounds go on the top. As the water boils, the pressure forces water up into the top chamber where it mixes with the grounds. When you take it off the heat, the vacuum in the bottom sucks the coffee-water through the filter and into the bottom of the pot.

Totally, absolutely perfect coffee every single time.

The pot is expensive, but it's a one-shot expense since it'll last a lifetime.

http://www.amazon.com/Bodum-Santos-Stov ... 293&sr=8-1

Damn you. Damn you to heck. I do not need another kitchen gadget.

[What Exit?]

I'll drink instant - I used to camp a lot, and we usually drank instant coffee around the campfire. It's definitely got a distinctive flavor, but not entirely unpleasant.

I actually have a camp pot somewhere I use to use a lot when I camped a lot. It made a passable coffee via perc.

[Jeff]

Ewwww, instant.

I got a coffee maker for Xmas and buy beans from Starbucks. I buy the Pike Place roast a lot, but I kill my coffee with enough cream and sugar that type of bean doesn't really matter. I seem to be able to tell the difference between a light and dark roast but that's it. I like how it brews at home although I hate the taste of store-bought brewed Starbucks coffee.

[Fenris]

Damn you. Damn you to heck. I do not need another kitchen gadget.

Yeah, really, in this case, you do.

And if you really, REALLY want to have just KILLER good coffee, use a burr-type coffee grinder on a coarse ground setting, a medium to medium-dark roast, a little more coffee grounds per cup than the directions say. Then use a drop or two of heavy whipping cream (really--for a 10 oz cup of coffee, you only need a teaspoon) and a bit of brown sugar (again, not much)

I don't do that very often, but oh. man. it's good. The cream gives the coffee this incredible mouthfeel and the brown sugar enhances the coffee flavor.

[OneCentStamp]

My sweetheart has made me into a coffee convert, after 30+ years of thinking I didn't like it. We buy a medium roast from HEB (the local "good" grocery chain - nothing fancy), keep it fresh, and use plenty of it in each pot. I think most shitty fast food and gas station coffee results more from not using enough grounds, or using stale grounds, more than the quality of the beans themselves.

For hardware we use a French press when we're feeling fancy, and drip maker when we aren't.

I like Starbucks OK, but it's pretty damn expensive, and most of their roasts are a little on the burnt side for my tastes.

[Myglaren]

Best coffee ever is made in a vacuum pot.



You put water at the bottom. The top part has a filter and the grounds go on the top. As the water boils, the pressure forces water up into the top chamber where it mixes with the grounds. When you take it off the heat, the vacuum in the bottom sucks the coffee-water through the filter and into the bottom of the pot.

Totally, absolutely perfect coffee every single time.

The pot is expensive, but it's a one-shot expense since it'll last a lifetime.

http://www.amazon.com/Bodum-Santos-Stov ... 293&sr=8-1

I agree with you there except for the last statement. Mine is long gone!
I mainly drink instant as apart from being a clumsyarse and breaking coffee makers, I'm a lazyarse and can't be bothered to dig the current one out of the cupboard. Have to rely on my youngest daughter to do the honours.

For proper coffee we mainly have Java or Guatemalan medium roasts.

[NAF1138]

Damn you. Damn you to heck. I do not need another kitchen gadget.

Yeah, really, in this case, you do.

And if you really, REALLY want to have just KILLER good coffee, use a burr-type coffee grinder on a coarse ground setting, a medium to medium-dark roast, a little more coffee grounds per cup than the directions say. Then use a drop or two of heavy whipping cream (really--for a 10 oz cup of coffee, you only need a teaspoon) and a bit of brown sugar (again, not much)

I don't do that very often, but oh. man. it's good. The cream gives the coffee this incredible mouthfeel and the brown sugar enhances the coffee flavor.

:Grumble: How expensive are they on the whole? Are they all of equal quality or are some better than others? I have a birthday coming up, my wife can't deny me a present to myself as long as it doesn't bankrupt us.

[Fenris]

The all-time best was an electric one by Bodum--but they're no longer being made and go for fucking insane prices on eBay (like $350.00 )

Here, for example

Problem is....they break easily--the heating element in the pot burns out and then you're screwed. I got 3 of them as gifts (don't ask) and I'm down to one working one.

There are two brands of stovetop
Bodum: http://www.amazon.com/Bodum-Santos-Stov ... 455&sr=8-5

and

Yama: http://www.amazon.com/Yama-Stovetop-Cup ... 552&sr=8-6

The Yama is cheaper and, I've heard, marginally better, but has specialized cloth filters (that are washable, granted).

[ivan astikov]

I don't think much of anyone uses instant coffee anymore. Have to examine the situation with some googling when I return but I bet even those 60 and up despise that nasty instant crap.

You're just WRONG! Everyone in my house drinks instant coffee, and thinks it is the best thing since bagged tea. Admittedly, there is only me who lives here, but that has got to count for something!

[NAF1138]

You're British, your opinion on coffee, by definition, doesn't count.

When we start the thread "Tea: cream before or after water?" Then we will pay attention.

[Fenris]

Cream in tea is just oogy. Sorry for the language, but there it is. Oogy.

[NAF1138]

OK Ivan. Now is the time to chime in.

[artifex]

For hardware we use a French press when we're feeling fancy, and drip maker when we aren't.

Don't forget the cute little stovetop espresso maker!

At least Starbucks uses enough grounds to make a decent cup, which is more than I can say for most chains you can buy coffee from. I agree, it really is about using enough coffee.

[Exy]

I found the Starbucks coffee is . . . overcooked.

This. I love coffee. Good coffee, bad coffee. I drink it from good cafes, like the one across the street from my building, and bad cafes, like the one on the first floor of my building. I drink it from gas stations, fast food places, Tim Hortons (it really is good), wherever. But everything at Starbucks is overroasted. I don't really like dark roasts at all, even ones that are supposed to be really good. Even if the stuff at the gas station has been sitting there for three hours, the beans weren't burned all to hell and it doesn't have that overwhelming bitter ashy taste. I'll drink coffee from Starbucks if I have to, but I really consider it worse than even most bad coffee.

[Baldwin]

Cream in tea is just oogy. Sorry for the language, but there it is. Oogy.

Only if you don't have proper tea. With good hot full-bodied tea, it's great.

[Dangerously Unqualified]

Starbucks is burnt and overpriced.

I prefer Chock Full O Nuts in a drip, made plenty hot and plenty strong.

Unless of course I can get Kona somewhere, hey my taste buds ain't dead yet.





Oh, and as to instant, that's all they had at the commisary in lock up. I tried it. It sucked. I did my time cold turkey from both coffee and cigarettes. I believe I'll pass on all future offers of instant coffee, thank you.

[Myglaren]

You're British, your opinion on coffee, by definition, doesn't count.

When we start the thread "Tea: cream before or after water?" Then we will pay attention.

I am British too but learned coffee in Sweden where they are coffeemaniacs. As the Swedes here will surely attest.

[sublight]

Starbucks is extremely cheap and has launched a couple of movements in this country.

Prior to Starbucks, people simply didn't drink coffee here. The only coffee shops in Japan were little boutique-like places that served a 4-6oz cup of mediocre quality and charged anywhere from $5-$12 for it (and forget about finding anything beyond your basic 'coffee'). At the supermarket, coffee occupied a tiny section of shelf space, half of which was instant. Starbucks opened shops that were stylish and comfortable to hang out in, and sold better-tasting cups easily four times as large as the old-style coffee shops for only $3. They also turned cappuccino and espresso into mainstream beverages, as well as other 'coffee drinks'.

More than just starting a popular coffee shop, Starbucks introduced the concept of 'premium coffee' here. Once people could suddenly have decent coffee at a reasonable price, they started getting interested in getting even better stuff and began demanding that the supermarkets carry something more than freeze-dried Nescafe. Stores now carry plenty of top-quality brands that just didn't exist here 10-15 years ago. Several other coffee shop chains also opened here with the same business model, including Tully's, Seattle's Best and Excelsior.

Additionally, Starbucks was one of the first (if not the first) big chains in Japan to completely prohibit smoking. Prior to this, Japan still had reputation as the last 'smokers paradise' where many restaurants didn't even have a non-smoking section. Offering a smoke-free environment turned out to be huge draw, and a lot of people began using Starbucks as a place to hold meetings, teach classes or just hang out. While the government was still mumbling about the possibility of considering looking into setting new smoking rules, maybe, other businesses saw how popular Starbucks' policies were and immediately started adding non-smoking areas of their own. Dining out became a lot more pleasant for non-smokers.

So I, for one, am damn glad they're here.

[Exy]

More than just starting a popular coffee shop, Starbucks introduced the concept of 'premium coffee' here.

My understanding is that the popularity of fancy coffee in Japan is why Jamaican Blue Mountain is now vastly pricier and not as good. I suspect, actually, that Starbucks deserves a good deal of the credit for creating interest in premium coffee over here too, though.

[ivan astikov]

Nah, they've been selling us the crap all these years, and now they are flogging the good stuff. It's the same with most consumerables, I bet.

[Ferret Herder]

I am a huge fan of Chicago's own Intelligentsia Coffee. You get what you pay for, definitely, but since we use coffee in bulk at home we typically get whatever looks good at Costco, then get Intelligentsia for when we have guests coming. My sister lives in a different state, and one year for Christmas, one of her wish list items was "good dark-roast coffee". I got her a couple of Intelligentsia's varieties, and she and her coworkers (oh how lucky they were that she shared) went absolutely ape over it. One benefit is that every bag has the roasting date stamped on it so you know how fresh it is, and when I mail ordered a special variety from them, the stamped date was pretty much the day of or day before it had been packed for shipping.

(I think it was Cook's Illustrated magazine that had a trick to tell how fresh your coffee beans were - put maybe a half-cup in a sealed ziploc quart or sandwich size bag, and leave out on a counter overnight. If the bag has puffed up a bit, they're still very fresh.)

[tunaman]

Nothing to contribute really, but I always found it interesting that some British people are incredibly snobby about tea... but almost all coffee consumed in the UK up until... the mid 90s? was instant.

I mean, we all know about the "put the milk in first vs. add the milk after you pour the tea" debate, but I once saw an episode of... Disappearing London, I think it was, and some guy ranted for five minutes about how TV killed "proper" tea. Apparently loose tea was the standard in the UK, until non-BBC TV came around, and commercial breaks led to people using tea bags, which are apparently the spawn of Satan... or something.

Sorry... it's 7:19am. I should go to sleep now!

[ivan astikov]

Nothing to contribute really, but I always found it interesting that some British people are incredibly snobby about tea... but almost all coffee consumed in the UK up until... the mid 90s? was instant.

I mean, we all know about the "put the milk in first vs. add the milk after you pour the tea" debate, but I once saw an episode of... Disappearing London, I think it was, and some guy ranted for five minutes about how TV killed "proper" tea. Apparently loose tea was the standard in the UK, until non-BBC TV came around, and commercial breaks led to people using tea bags, which are apparently the spawn of Satan... or something.

Sorry... it's 7:19am. I should go to sleep now!

Apart from that coming from genteel country types and the aristocracy, the only snobbery around tea for the proles was whether the milk went in first or last, as you mentioned, or whether you used PG or Typhoo teabags. :smile:

[Myglaren]

Nothing to contribute really, but I always found it interesting that some British people are incredibly snobby about tea... but almost all coffee consumed in the UK up until... the mid 90s? was instant.

I mean, we all know about the "put the milk in first vs. add the milk after you pour the tea" debate, but I once saw an episode of... Disappearing London, I think it was, and some guy ranted for five minutes about how TV killed "proper" tea. Apparently loose tea was the standard in the UK, until non-BBC TV came around, and commercial breaks led to people using tea bags, which are apparently the spawn of Satan... or something.

Sorry... it's 7:19am. I should go to sleep now!

My mother always insisted on loose tea. Came with a mouthful of tealeaves in the cup more often than not

I was reminded after my earlier post that when I was a kid (1950's) that in our very small and somewhat backward town* there were several Co-Op shops, one on the street where I lived. They had these huge coffee grinders and a variety of different coffee beans/roasts. The shops always smelled wonderful, coffee, freshly baked bread, cheeses and vegetables.
The main store in the town center, that seemed to me to be the biggest shop in the whole world, had an array of coffee grinders on one wall, perhaps a dozen of them. My cousin's husband became the store manager when I was about 15 but by then all the grinders were gone.


*Whitby

[Taumpy]

I like my coffee strong, black, and from one of the small local coffee shops. There are quite a few in the Berkshires. (for anyone coming through, Dottie's in Pittsfield, The Coffee Shop in Great Barrington, and Lenox Coffee are all pretty good).

The Starbucks around here sucks because it's filled with snooty upper class types that haven't found the locally run coffee places. When it comes to the chains it's always Dunkies over Starbucks for me. I love the atmosphere. I'll take the blue collar old timers sitting around talking about sports and the weather over suits with their laptops any time.

[ichini sanshigo]

I'm not even close to 60 and I drink almost nothing but instant. And Starbucks is okay. One time I had some Starbucks at a seminar I attended, and that coffee was divine. But whenever I get regular coffee from Starbucks it tastes... charred. Their specialty drinks are okay, quite possibly because all the cream and sugar and flavoring covers up the charred taste.

[Chicken Toes]

Regular Starbucks coffee always tastes burned. The frou-frou drinks are okay, but they're diluted with tons of cream and sugar and flavored syrups.
I can get better coffee at the 7-11 or Dunkin' Donuts, IMO.

I prefer my little french press for making coffee at home. If I'm making it for a crowd, I have a trusty Black & Decker 10-cup drip machine that works just fine. If I feel like it, I'll make cold-brewed coffee and use that for iced coffee.
Instant coffee is always awful. A french press takes no time at all, five minutes for steeping after the water has boiled, so it's not like it's any more trouble than instant. And it's so much better.

[Angua]

My mother always insisted on loose tea. Came with a mouthful of tealeaves in the cup more often than not

Tea balls. Loose tea contained.

I like my coffee strong, dark and black, having learnt my coffee from the French and Germans. I generally like a strong dark French roast, and use either my stovetop espresso maker or a French press. And annoyingly, my favourite coffee shop is in Bishop, CA!

[What Exit?]

Regular Starbucks coffee always tastes burned. The frou-frou drinks are okay, but they're diluted with tons of cream and sugar and flavored syrups.
I can get better coffee at the 7-11 or Dunkin' Donuts, IMO.

I prefer my little french press for making coffee at home. If I'm making it for a crowd, I have a trusty Black & Decker 10-cup drip machine that works just fine. If I feel like it, I'll make cold-brewed coffee and use that for iced coffee.
Instant coffee is always awful. A french press takes no time at all, five minutes for steeping after the water has boiled, so it's not like it's any more trouble than instant. And it's so much better.

I agree on the 7-11 or Dunkin' Donuts. I had a trustly B&D pot I used for about 8 years. My wife really loves coffee and upgraded us to a good Braun pot.

Tea balls. Loose tea contained.

My wife uses Tea Balls, I am a heretic, I by White Rose tea bags by the 100 and they are mostly for Ice Tea making. Bigelow Mint Tea to make the Ice Tea great. 3 cheapies and one Bigelow make a gallon.

[Hatshepsut]

Instant coffee is not coffee by any stretch of the imagination. For one thing, it has no aroma. It's "dead" in a way that even bad real coffee is not.

Having said that, I am not above drinking instant from time to time. I just don't think of it as drinking a cup of coffee. It is simply a way to convey warmth (or cold, if it's iced) and caffeine to my body. It is a bland and harmless substance even if it isn't coffee.

I've never cared for Starbucks - I like my coffee unadulterated with cream or sugar, and their coffee does taste charred.

Cream in a cup of good strong tea is delicious! Don't knock it til you've tried it.