non-combatant opinions sought

[McNutty]

[modhat:2c8i739r]From What Exit?: Please keep on Topic in this thread despite it being in the T'Dome[/modhat:2c8i739r]

Am I being ridiculous here? Here's a transcript of chat from where I was, if Myrnalene and Excalibur are to be believed, an unbelievably horrible person. It went on much longer than this, but from my point of view it went like this:

They're griping at Jim about the way moderation is done, telling him he shouldn't be waiting for consensus. I think, well, gee, that's odd because when a mod acts without waiting for consensus around here, that's when the hand-wringing and complaining begins. So I make a sarcastic comment that yeah, more unilateral decisions without hesitation is what we need. This is far too confrontational for the two nicest people on the board, who would never use sarcasm in their own communication with others, which is 100% flowers and smiles. Which is why they recoil in horror, leading me to concede that I was being sarcastic and restate in totally neutral terms. You see, I actually wanted to talk about the issue. But these two were so deeply insulted by my sarcasm that they couldn't let it go and had to keep pressing on what a horrible awful person I am.

So, here's the transcript of the beginning part (it went on for some time after this, but this is the crux of the blowup). I invite commentary on whether I was out of line here from anyone who wasn't involved. The log has been reversed so the first messages are at the top. I have bolded the part where I immediately backed off of my mean, mean words in order to actually discuss the issue rationally. Keep in mind that the bolding starts my third message. Period. There is no previous sniping or discussion from me preceding this excerpt whatsoever.

What Exit? « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:17 pm » No, [someone] is clearly a troll, but if I act on it, we'll have too many that need to wait for the proof of it. But I can't even say things like that and this will come back and bite me somehow.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:17 pm » Actually I think the same person that drives Truth and Beauty drives him, he's doing the same hijacky bulshit

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:17 pm » Jim, STOP

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:18 pm » We had a huge thread in ADF when T&B was doing the same thing

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:19 pm » You can't please everyone, you need to do what it right and not listen to people like (sorry, Roo) Roo who don't think ANYONE is a troll

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:19 pm » Personally, I would 101 him permanently. In the past most of the users have seemed to support dealing with really obvious trolls. Some tiny minority will probably bitch and moan, and they'll surely do so in the snackpit, and so what.

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:20 pm » Waiting for complete consensus in everything is not helping this place.

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:21 pm » I agree, Jim. You should act unilaterally and not hesitate.

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:21 pm » We don't always have to just bend over and ask to be victimized.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:21 pm » Nutts, that is not what I am saying and don't you start shit

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:22 pm » McNutty, I don't believe you're actually stupid enough to think that's a valid comparison.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:22 pm » I am not talking about Jim specifically, all of the mods need to come together to do this

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:22 pm » is it possible for you guys to hear a dissenting opinion without going apeshit?

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:23 pm » It it possible for you to express an opinion by giving a reason instead of just engaging in snide sarcasm?

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:23 pm » Is it possoble you weren't digging at me with that comment? Yeah, but it's not likely

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:23 pm » I guess that depends on whether or not you ever have reasons for your opinions.

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:23 pm » a fair point, excalibur

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:24 pm » my comment was snide but meant as a friendly poke

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:24 pm » Nutts, we ain't friends

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:24 pm » my point is that I think you guys are giving Jim mixed signals

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:24 pm » I can't do this anymore

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:24 pm » Did Moona just leave? A name disappeared.

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:25 pm » Farewell, Moon Maiden.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:25 pm » no, bb

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:25 pm » Oh

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:25 pm » I was in the middle of trying to compose some sort of flowery reference to your crime-fighting career.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:25 pm » Frankly, I am only addressing this to Jim because he is the only one here, as per usual

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:26 pm » Yeah I'm sick of feeling like I'm criticizing Jim for shit that's at most 1/8th his fault since he's 1/8th of the team.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:26 pm » for reals

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:26 pm » why are you even discussing it here at all? i thought chat was a terrible place to discuss this stuff

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:27 pm » can you like, make any kind of constructive comment ever?

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:27 pm » why is it always this game of "gotcha ya" with you?

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:27 pm » You know, McNutty, you mentioned friendly feelings towards me in that JJ thread about having a beer with people. You've certainly tried to be friends with Myrnalene.

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:27 pm » I'm serious. You're complaining that the only person to discuss it with is Jim because you have to discuss it in chat for some reason?

pepperlandgirl « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:28 pm » well, Nutty, look at NAF's thread--where there are no responses because there are no mods online right now besides Jim.

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:28 pm » Somehow I bet we're not the first friends you've completely alienated through this constant snide, childish game-playing.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:28 pm » Like anyone besides Jim and Caerie (and sometimes NAF) responds to ADF threads?

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:28 pm » You know what? I'm out. I don't have the energy to even talk to this guy.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:28 pm » aww

pepperlandgirl « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:28 pm » so it's not just "in chat." If Myrna was too start a thread, it could be hours or days before the rest of the mods jump in.

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:28 pm » you guys are a freakshow. go read the comments I've made here and tell me how unfriendly they are. wtf.

Jeff « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:29 pm » You're all fucking idiots and not one of you is suitable to be setting board policy. DIAF

pepperlandgirl « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:29 pm » if they did at all.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:29 pm » Maybe if you tried to cut the sarcasm for one half-second you would get a better response from us

pepperlandgirl « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:30 pm » not that there's much that can be done about it, regardless of where they discuss it. You can't compel people to be here, after all, and the people who care about who the staff is already voted and had their say.

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:30 pm » I just did cut the sarcasm in response to you. So now what?

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:31 pm » I don't know if you've noticed but sarcasm is a pretty plentiful resource around here and you don't seem to have any problem receiving it from anyone but me or dishing it out yourself, and what I just gave you was pretty fucking mild, so get a goddamn grip

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:31 pm » That's right. It's always everyone else's fault, McNutty. Never yours.

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:32 pm » Hey, is that sarcasm?

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:32 pm » Just like all the many, many previous times it's been everyone else's fault.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:32 pm » McNutty, I have made up with you time and again and you know it

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:32 pm » I am getting sick of this cycle

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:32 pm » so stop it

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:33 pm » you don't need to go crying because I make one single sarcastic comment to you

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:33 pm » You just started a conversation with two people you have a shaky relationship with, with snide poking

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:33 pm » and then you are surprised when we don't fall all over ourselves to be friends with you

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:33 pm » maybe because I thought we weren't going to bring old shit up ad infinitum

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:34 pm » why don't you just try to be civil?

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:34 pm » you don't need to be my friend. just don't fall apart when I make a tiny little jab of disagreement at you. christ

[Myrnalene]

LOL GET A FUCKING LIFE

[featherlou]

Well, speaking as a non-combatant, I think you should probably drop this for your own mental health.

[McNutty]

Yes, I know, lou. The fact is, they're very good at taking shit way up a notch and sucking me into an all-out fight. And I don't want the reputation of being the person who gets into all-out fights all the time. I don't do it with anyone else, and I'm not sure why I do it with them (Excalibur will tell you that it's because I desperately want to be his friend). I think I probably have to just ignore it. But since I feel like I'm being pretty reasonable with them and they're responding like I'm some kind of murderer, I think it's a good idea to get some outside input to make sure I'm not insane.

ETA: removed jab at Myrn over the huge "get a life" comment. I'm not planning to do any flaming in this thread.

[Myrnalene]

Also, if anyone who is not familiar with this situation is actually bored enough to read through those logs, they would not have the benefit of being aware of the lead up to this - i.e., the other times you were an assface to Excalibur or me or both of us together. It's not like you came in as a totally neutral party, you came in to be a cock to us because you don't like us.

And that's not an invitation to go searching through the entire chat log to try to post carefully chosen selections of the text on those arguments, either. You great weirdo.

[Myrnalene]

The fact is, they're very good at taking shit way up a notch and sucking me into an all-out fight.

I'm pretty sure that you are in only person on the board who will believe that you don't want to fight when you start the conversation like this:

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:21 pm » I agree, Jim. You should act unilaterally and not hesitate.

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:21 pm » We don't always have to just bend over and ask to be victimized.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:21 pm » Nutts, that is not what I am saying and don't you start shit

Excalibur « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:22 pm » McNutty, I don't believe you're actually stupid enough to think that's a valid comparison.

Myrnalene « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:22 pm » I am not talking about Jim specifically, all of the mods need to come together to do this

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:22 pm » is it possible for you guys to hear a dissenting opinion without going apeshit?

You colossal dickhole.

[McNutty]

What do you mean by "carefully chosen"? Are you claiming this is not representative of the conversation somehow? It's everything, including some context from before I even showed up. I cut it short because after that it was just more of the same shit repeated over and over again.

[Myrnalene]

And for someone so interested in discussing board policy - there are currently several very important threads about at the moment where we actually seem to be making good strides toward figuring out how to administrate the board effectively. However, instead of contributing to those, you are in here trying to get someone to validate your butthurt over the fact that Exy & I don't like you. Check your priorities, you monumental mongoloid.

[McNutty]

Also, if anyone who is not familiar with this situation is actually bored enough to read through those logs, they would not have the benefit of being aware of the lead up to this - i.e., the other times you were an assface to Excalibur or me or both of us together.

Honestly, I don't see this. Here is a recent example of a time where I disagreed with Excalibur, and I kept my disagreement with him completely civil until he started dredging up old disagreements and claiming I was never honest. It would seem that he's incapable of even speaking to me without flying off the handle. I'm kind of tired of it.

[McNutty]

I will now leave you to curse and froth at me. You and I going back and forth about this is not going to invite any insight. Maybe that's what you want, who knows.

[Elyanna]

I think ALL THREE OF YOU need to count to 10, take a jog, bite your tongue, WHATEVER. Sometimes one party is more at fault than the other, but lately it just seems that you three can't exist in the same room without a brawl springing up. I like you individually when you're not tearing each other's hairs out by the root, but together you're obnoxious. Really, really, really obnoxious.

In conclusion:
TAKE A CHILL PILL Y'ALL
Crimeny.

[Winston Smith]

McNutty, I think they're just taking the piss. Take it easy, mate.

[Zuul]

I think ALL THREE OF YOU need to count to 10, take a jog, bite your tongue, WHATEVER. Sometimes one party is more at fault than the other, but lately it just seems that you three can't exist in the same room without a brawl springing up. I like you individually when you're not tearing each other's hairs out by the root, but together you're obnoxious. Really, really, really obnoxious.

In conclusion:
TAKE A CHILL PILL Y'ALL
Crimeny.

This. I don't really care who started it or who was in the wrong, because it's all just over inconsequential bitchy junior high school girl snipping. I think every last one of you needs to practice rolling your eyes and shutting the hell up. The continued bitching is just tiring and makes you all look bad.

ETA: And that was rather bitchy myself, so insert some rainbows and sparkly unicorns here. You know I love you guys.

[featherlou]

Here you go - [ img ]http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/up/files/794/hairisabird.jpg[ /img ]
[modhat:352tqo14]I broke the image, please try to keep on topic here despite it being in the dome[/modhat:352tqo14]

[McNutty]

Putting this in the thunderdome was probably a mistake. I was actually hoping to get somewhere with this discussion...

[What Exit?]

I think ALL THREE OF YOU need to count to 10, take a jog, bite your tongue, WHATEVER. Sometimes one party is more at fault than the other, but lately it just seems that you three can't exist in the same room without a brawl springing up. I like you individually when you're not tearing each other's hairs out by the root, but together you're obnoxious. Really, really, really obnoxious.

In conclusion:
TAKE A CHILL PILL Y'ALL
Crimeny.

This. I don't really care who started it or who was in the wrong, because it's all just over inconsequential bitchy junior high school girl snipping. I think every last one of you needs to practice rolling your eyes and shutting the hell up. The continued bitching is just tiring and makes you all look bad.

ETA: And that was rather bitchy myself, so insert some rainbows and sparkly unicorns here. You know I love you guys.

I tried 4 times to find a way to phrase it politely. I failed so I am going to just agree with Caerie. On all of it. I genuinely like the company of all three of you. Not that I don't dislike, but that I enjoy your company. You are all fun to hang out with until you go after each other. You all bring much to the board. You all care about the board. McNutty, don’t joke with them, they read jokes from you with the worst intent, Exy and Myrna, you would have barely noticed McNutty’s minor snark if it was almost anyone else. Please, ease up a little guys.

[hatesfreedom]

Dude once I was trying to get with this girl and she was all baby I want you inside me and I was all like

everybodys been inside you why can't we just watch movies



i'm glad we had this chat.

[Sarahfeena]

I read the entire argument as it is happening, so I will tell you guys how I perceived it at the time (I'm not going back to re-read).

I thought that McNutty's initial comment was unnecessarily sarcastic, and I thought that Myrna and Exy's both had an unnecessary over-reaction to it. Personally, I think that McNutty was comparing two things that were not comparable. The decision to 101 someone should be within the rights of any mod to act unilaterally...I don't have a problem with that, and in fact would prefer it to all this drawn-out consensus-building. It in no way compares to CRSP and Jim's actions in regards to the Great Purge, or the sending out of the apology e-mail, neither of which is a do-over situation. I think that McNutty knows these things are not the same, and so I'm not sure why he had to jump in immediately giving people a hard time about it. (If I'm wrong, Nuts, please feel free to correct me.)

ON THE OTHER HAND...you know, people around here are sarcastic and rude all the time. If Myrna and Exy had just said, look, dude, this is why we think the two things are not the same, perhaps they would have a hell of a lot more success getting people to pay attention, rather than immediately accusing people of stirring up shit, and calling them stupid and whatever else went on.

And quite frankly, when I see stuff like this going on in chat, I find something else to do. For one thing, I really don't think we should be discussing important things about board policy in chat. For another, it's just unpleasant to see fighting going on there, and if you really expect chat to bring in new posters, I'm pretty sure acting like that is completely counterproductive to that goal.

[goatse spam]

McNutty, I don't have your patience. If I were you I'd pull the plug on the whole fucking thing. You don't deserve to be treated like that.

[Guizmeaux]

I can see a personality clash and want no part of it, because I actually quite like the three posters involved in this dismal triangle. However, I would just like to say that I think featherlou is fully lovely.

Thank you for all, joining in with my totally unnecessary, single handed circle-jerk.

[featherlou]

Thank you so much.

I can't quite read your handwriting; what's the zip code for me to send the cheque?

[Guizmeaux]

I don't have a ZIP code, (which was a pain in the ass when paying for gas by card in Vegas and Phoenix recently), so let's call this one a freebie.

[pepperlandgirl]

As somebody else who witnessed the entire conversation--and even (foolishly) tried to introduce some sense into the situation--I agree with What Exit? and Sarahfeena.

Or to quote the old man from A Hard Day's Night---"In my considered opinion, you're all a bunch of sissies."

[Borborygmi]

I don't really have anything to add that hatesfreedom hasn't already covered.

[McNutty]

Personally, I think that McNutty was comparing two things that were not comparable. The decision to 101 someone should be within the rights of any mod to act unilaterally...I don't have a problem with that, and in fact would prefer it to all this drawn-out consensus-building. It in no way compares to CRSP and Jim's actions in regards to the Great Purge, or the sending out of the apology e-mail, neither of which is a do-over situation. I think that McNutty knows these things are not the same, and so I'm not sure why he had to jump in immediately giving people a hard time about it. (If I'm wrong, Nuts, please feel free to correct me.)

This is a side topic, so I don't want to go into it too much, but since you asked for clarification: The comparison isn't just between 101ing and the Great Purge. We have a history of outcry over moderator actions. That is precisely why the mods go for consensus -- they get a bunch of crap whenever they do anything that hasn't gone through committee. The "unilateral" phrase was lifted from the Great Purge outcry, yes, but that doesn't mean it only refers to that. And in fact, feel free to disagree with the comparison. It's possible I'm just completely wrong about it, and it's also possible I simply misread the advice they were giving Jim at the time. But I don't see how the reaction I got was really appropriate.

And quite frankly, when I see stuff like this going on in chat, I find something else to do.

I apologize for my contribution to this. I will be making an effort not to fight with them in the future, but I have a hard time swallowing the idea that I can't simply disagree with them the same way I'd disagree with someone else (or the way someone else might disagre with them) because they just can't tolerate it coming from me.

[Sarahfeena]

Personally, I think that McNutty was comparing two things that were not comparable. The decision to 101 someone should be within the rights of any mod to act unilaterally...I don't have a problem with that, and in fact would prefer it to all this drawn-out consensus-building. It in no way compares to CRSP and Jim's actions in regards to the Great Purge, or the sending out of the apology e-mail, neither of which is a do-over situation. I think that McNutty knows these things are not the same, and so I'm not sure why he had to jump in immediately giving people a hard time about it. (If I'm wrong, Nuts, please feel free to correct me.)

This is a side topic, so I don't want to go into it too much, but since you asked for clarification: The comparison isn't just between 101ing and the Great Purge. We have a history of outcry over moderator actions. That is precisely why the mods go for consensus -- they get a bunch of crap whenever they do anything that hasn't gone through committee. The "unilateral" phrase was lifted from the Great Purge outcry, yes, but that doesn't mean it only refers to that. And in fact, feel free to disagree with the comparison. It's possible I'm just completely wrong about it, and it's also possible I simply misread the advice they were giving Jim at the time. But I don't see how the reaction I got was really appropriate.

Oh, I agree with you...the mods do get too much shit, and I don't blame them for wanting consensus. I'm actually really glad that we are revisiting some of that in ADF right now. I do think they were telling Jim that he doesn't have to agonize over the small things...that if other mods aren't around, toss someone in 101, it's not the end of the world...I didn't have the impression that they were telling him to make BIG unilateral decisions.

[quote:1hsvi049]And quite frankly, when I see stuff like this going on in chat, I find something else to do.

I apologize for my contribution to this. I will be making an effort not to fight with them in the future, but I have a hard time swallowing the idea that I can't simply disagree with them the same way I'd disagree with someone else (or the way someone else might disagre with them) because they just can't tolerate it coming from me.[/quote:1hsvi049] I appreciate your apology, but I have to say it's not about me, really. Chat is for better or worse a large part of the "face" of this board, and I'd rather we gave the better than the worse, you know? And I agree with you also that any of us needs to be able to disagree with others around here without getting jumped all over. I'm not sure why the personality clash here, but I really think it's something all three of you are contributing to.

[Myrnalene]

This is a side topic, so I don't want to go into it too much, but since you asked for clarification: The comparison isn't just between 101ing and the Great Purge. We have a history of outcry over moderator actions. That is precisely why the mods go for consensus -- they get a bunch of crap whenever they do anything that hasn't gone through committee. The "unilateral" phrase was lifted from the Great Purge outcry, yes, but that doesn't mean it only refers to that. And in fact, feel free to disagree with the comparison. It's possible I'm just completely wrong about it, and it's also possible I simply misread the advice they were giving Jim at the time. But I don't see how the reaction I got was really appropriate.

Look, I know I explained this to you about 3 or 4 times last night (You helpfully cut that part of the chat out), but ONCE AGAIN, what Exy and I were saying was not contradictory to what we had said before, because what we were advising against was trying to get a consensus from all the board members because that will never, ever happen. Not moving "unilateraly" means running serious and permanent issues by the other mods first. Why you continue to act as though we didn't clarify this is a mystery to me, I talked about it to you until I was blue in the face but the only point you cared about was your fuckbrained idea that you should be able to be a snide jackass to me whenever you want to but that I shouldn't respond to you in kind.

Get. stuffed.

[McNutty]

Why you continue to act as though we didn't clarify this is a mystery to me, I talked about it to you until I was blue in the face

I'm not "acting as if" anything. You can read the log. You clarified your point long after blowing up at me.

[What Exit?]

Can I make one stab at this please?

Myrna, McNutty made a sarcastic or snarky post long before you clarified. To be completely honest, I laughed when I saw it as I was wondering how he posted what I was thinking. What you would have accepted as a joke from me you took as an attack from McNutty. I thought you and Exy overreacted to his post. From there is got ugly and well my three friends*, you are all strong willed people not prone to backing down, at least not on message boards.

Now I understand your point and you did clarify it well later in chat but by that time, I believe to everyone else observing or side chatting, you three were all breathing fire. The only reason I did not interfere last night was I thought maybe it would get resolved finally[sup:1xjc96ea]2[/sup:1xjc96ea]. Please remember, no fighting in chat. That is what here is for.


* This is not sarcasm, I mean it. I think of all three of you as Internet friends.
[sup:1xjc96ea]2[/sup:1xjc96ea] I was obviously wrong again.

[Sarahfeena]

Why you continue to act as though we didn't clarify this is a mystery to me, I talked about it to you until I was blue in the face

I'm not "acting as if" anything. You can read the log. You clarified your point long after blowing up at me.

Myrna, that is true.

Nutty: I think there is some question as to whether you understood it before it was clarified (before you even joined the conversation), but acted like you didn't so you could get a shot in.

[Exy]

Holy shit. But see it's not that you're all butthurt and crazily obsessed or anything, right, McNutty?

Jesus Christ are you ever a loser.

[McNutty]

Nutty: I think there is some question as to whether you understood it before it was clarified (before you even joined the conversation), but acted like you didn't so you could get a shot in.

Yeah, I understand that. This is one of those times where Exy claims I'm being "dishonest" when he's just grasping at straws. In fact, there was no way I could have known, since he was just saying "a consensus." I have never heard anyone suggest getting an entire board consensus for a 101ing, so I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed he was talking about a mod consensus. Clarification was necessary and helpful.

On preview: thanks for the constructive input, Exy.

[Hatshepsut]

Another reason I am resolved that I will never enter chat.

McNutty, perhaps I am mistaken, but I've got the distinct impression that you and SugarPlum are expecting a child. If that's true, and your experiences mirror that of the majority of new parents, after the baby is born your priorities will change so much, and you will have so little free time to think about such things, that you will marvel that your OP ever seemed important to you.

Of course, I could be laughably wrong. But I'd be curious to know your thoughts on this (if you have time!) in the future, say when your baby hits the 3-months-old mark.

[ivan astikov]

This is why I seldom visit chat.

It's all too quickfire and complex for me, and you only have to look away for 5 seconds and everyone's either pissed off somewhere or talking about something completely different than when you last popped your head in!

McNutty, stay in the forums; it's far more sedate.

CC, "Snap!"

[McNutty]

McNutty, perhaps I am mistaken, but I've got the distinct impression that you and SugarPlum are expecting a child. If that's true, and your experiences mirror that of the majority of new parents, after the baby is born your priorities will change so much, and you will have so little free time to think about such things, that you will marvel that your OP ever seemed important to you.

Oh yes, I fully expect that to be the case. I really doubt I'll enter chat much at all after that. It's one of those things you just do because it's there, but you don't miss it when you go away from it.

But part of the reason I started this thread was that I don't think this problem is isolated to chat. In the example of the thread about the word "gay," I tried to challenge Excalibur on turning the thread confrontational in the mildest way possible, and the result was the same. Frankly, I wish some other people and/or mods would speak up about it. I don't think it's a benefit to the board.

[Myrnalene]

Clarification was necessary and helpful.

Then maybe.......I know this is fucking outrageously silly, but......maybe you could have fucking asked what we meant instead of starting with a snarky jab at us, and then accusing us of "going apeshit" when we snarked back.

You act like you are so fucking innocent in all these exchanges. Please re-read your chat transcript, which I am sure is dog-eared and covered with yellow highlighter and outraged notes in the margins by now, and notice that Exy and I had moved ON from the "unilateral" swipe when you dropped this one:

McNutty « Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:26 pm » why are you even discussing it here at all? i thought chat was a terrible place to discuss this stuff

which was an attempt to score points off of us by pointing out some imagined hypocrisy. An lo and behold, the argument started up again! How could you have predicted that?

The thrust of the whole exchange is this - you went in spoiling for a fight and you got one. If you were not in fact spoiling for a fight, maybe you need to learn how to talk to people without being a total asshole.

[OneCentStamp]

Another reason I am resolved that I will never enter chat.

This is why I seldom visit chat.

Thirded. It reminds me too much of the SnarkPit. Actually, now that half of the SnarkPit consists of walls of text C&Ped from the DoMeBo chat, I can't even say which reminds me of which anymore.

[Exy]

Another reason I am resolved that I will never enter chat.

This is why I seldom visit chat.

Thirded. It reminds me too much of the SnarkPit. Actually, now that half of the SnarkPit consists of walls of text C&Ped from the DoMeBo chat, I can't even say which reminds me of which anymore.

It's usually fine, honest.

[What Exit?]

But part of the reason I started this thread was that I don't think this problem is isolated to chat. In the example of the thread about the word "gay," I tried to challenge Excalibur on turning the thread confrontational in the mildest way possible, and the result was the same. Frankly, I wish some other people and/or mods would speak up about it. I don't think it's a benefit to the board.

I'm going to jump in again. In that case I feel you were wrong. Excalibur really did not step over any line and even if he did you should have reported it, not posted something that was actually more likely to flame up or drive the thread off course.

Keep in mind, I was in that thread disagreeing with Exy and Myrna and many others.

[McNutty]

In that case I feel you were wrong. Excalibur really did not step over any line and even if he did you should have reported it, not posted something that was actually more likely to flame up or drive the thread off course.

You are right that I shouldn't have responded the third time. My two posts prior to that were perfectly civil, but before the third one, he just flat-out accused me of lying when I said I didn't think anyone had been rude to him, and he went on a little rant, bringing up his grudge with me. I should have reported that and kept my mouth shut.

[Jeff]

Another reason I am resolved that I will never enter chat.

This is why I seldom visit chat.

Thirded. It reminds me too much of the SnarkPit. Actually, now that half of the SnarkPit consists of walls of text C&Ped from the DoMeBo chat, I can't even say which reminds me of which anymore.

Join us. It'sssssssssss blisssssssssssssssssss...........

[pepperlandgirl]

Another reason I am resolved that I will never enter chat.

This is why I seldom visit chat.

Thirded. It reminds me too much of the SnarkPit. Actually, now that half of the SnarkPit consists of walls of text C&Ped from the DoMeBo chat, I can't even say which reminds me of which anymore.

We have the occasional flare-ups (which isn't much different from the occasional flare ups on the board--it's not like Excalibur and McNutty never growled at each other in threads) but chat really isn't that bad. We're very friendly, we love new people, we post silly pictures, we talk about Star Trek, we tease each other gently, and we even try to help each other with all kinds of things. And we're all on our best behavior with new visitors--even Excalibur.

[eventually...]

The thrust of the whole exchange is this - you went in spoiling for a fight and you got one. If you were not in fact spoiling for a fight, maybe you need to learn how to talk to people without being a total asshole.

Wow. So, either it's McNutty's fault for spoiling for a fight, or it's McNutty's fault for not speaking to you right. Sounds like the logistics a 3 year old would throw around.

I don't post much, mostly because my first attempts at posting were met with what I felt were inappropriate responses. Ya know what I did? Same thing I would do in real life. I ignored that which offended me and chose to not engage with those posters again.

I'm sure you will now rip me to pieces for replying to this thread, so have at it. But someone needed to say it.

[Myrnalene]

I'm sure you will now rip me to pieces for replying to this thread, so have at it.

Yeah, man, look what I did to featherlou, Elyanna, Winston, Zuul, hatesfreedom, Sarahfeenah, goatse spam, Guizmeaux, pepperlandgirl, Borborygmi, What Exit? CairoCarol, ivan astikov, OnceCentStamp, and Jeff!

[Jeff]

Oh sure, twist the knife a little more. What you said to me can never be taken back. Hatebag.

[eventually...]

Yeah, man, look what I did to featherlou, Elyanna, Winston, Zuul, hatesfreedom, Sarahfeenah, Goat.se spam, Guizmeaux, pepperlandgirl, Borborygmi, What Exit? CairoCarol, ivan astikov, OnceCentStamp, and Jeff!

Honestly, that statement comes from seeing the way that you have reacted to posters in the past, both on this board and on Giraffeboards, that have crossed you. So, my apology for assuming that I would meet with the same.

[antigonos]

Turn off chat, that'll learn them to disrespect you on your own server.

[windsock]

Not wanting to get in the middle of this with my regular board persona, I've created a sock. Call me a wimp if you want, but I really don't want a battle with Excalibur and Myrnalene. They're self-identified snarkers and they take pride in being nasty to people in chat. I think they scare people away from the board, and chat in particular. It's just not a pleasant place when you might have to deal with one of those cunts over nothing.

Nutty's gone a little nutty on this, but I can sympathize: Excalibur plays the role of the guy who will come out of nowhere and be a sarcastic prick in any thread, warranted or not, and nobody ever calls him on it. And Myrnalene plays the role of the screaming shrew who just wants to complain about anything the administration does (and always stands by her man Exy). They're only fun if they're on your side, which is why a lot of people just try to stay on their good side in chat. The result is a sickening change of tone when they're in there together.

Strange how often the chat clique has to fend off complaints that they're mean and unwelcoming, since in here they're swearing up and down that they're nice to everyone*. That's one to ponder.

*despite bragging over on giraffeboard about the chat being "especially nasty" here -- hey, here's a hint: we don't want you over there, that's reason enough to not install chat, thanks

To be completely honest, I laughed when I saw [what McNutty said] as I was wondering how he posted what I was thinking. What you would have accepted as a joke from me you took as an attack from McNutty.

Hear that, Myrncalibur? Jim was thinking the same thing. And he's practically your biggest supporter, you cunts. I don't know why he listens to you at all. If I were him, I'd be worried that the reason you were having little pow-wows about board policy in chat was so the whole conversation would be off the record and you could publicly shit on him for whatever he ended up doing, even though it was at your urging. If the mods never made any mistakes, you guys would have to stop shrieking about what they do.

Oh, who am I kidding? They could be perfect and you'll bitch and moan about whatever they do as if life and death were at stake anyway.

I really don't know why this board population puts up with the likes of you two.

[Myrnalene]

I almost don't want to respond because, if you are such a giant pussy you won't use your "real" username over something as trivial as this, you pretty much don't deserve the respect of a response.

They're self-identified snarkers and they take pride in being nasty to people in chat.

That was a joke you boob, in response to TVeblen saying that their Pit was not contentious enough for her taste. In any case, I wasn't really advertising it as positive, you need to learn to recognize self-deprecating humor. Also, I note you are using our brand new nickname of "Myrncalibur", which debuted on the snackpit yesterday. Clearly you read there too, but as long as you don't own up to it (self-identify), I guess that's acceptable.

In any case, let me clarify my snarker status once at for all: I have maybe posted 3 bitchy things about someone anonymously over the past 4 years or so. The vast majority of my anon posts are either clarifying some of the misinformation there or participating in jokes that have nothing to do with tearing anyone down. I also post there under my own name, which I have to my knowledge never used to snark on someone (I got in sort of an argument about a week or so ago and may have called him a moron or something, but this is someone who was bitching behind my back anyway). Scores and scores of Dumbos and Raffers admit to using the snarkpit, it's a mystery to me why Excalibur (who also posts under his own name) and I get pilloried for it.

And Myrnalene plays the role of the screaming shrew who just wants to complain about anything the administration does (and always stands by her man Exy).

If you care to look, there are about three threads active right now where I support the decisions of the mods. I even agree with one of Winston's proposals, and he and I hardly have an unblemished history. There are older examples but I really don't feel like dicking around searching for them right now. I have also disagreed with Excalibur plenty of times, in chat at least. That stuff doesn't get play at the snackpit and since that is apparently where you get your news it's no surprise that you don't know about it.

Oh, who am I kidding? They could be perfect and you'll bitch and moan about whatever they do as if life and death were at stake anyway.

Again, it's not true that all we do is complain - your fellow snarker :wink: Truth & Beauty gave me shit several times for standing up for the mods. If people think all I do is bitch, then they are just seeing what they want to see.

Also, I have never claimed to be nice to everyone. But if someone comes into chat, especially someone new, I am usually one of the first to greet them and try and make them feel comfortable. Perhaps if you actually hung out and chat with us for half an hour, instead of believing everything you read elsewhere, you might have a better picture of what actually happens there. Or you if you are disinclined to do that, you could take pepper's word for it. No matter what you say, she and the other chat regulars are not shrinking violets cowed into submission by Exy and I. When you imply that they are it's much more unfair to them than us.

We have the occasional flare-ups (which isn't much different from the occasional flare ups on the board--it's not like Excalibur and McNutty never growled at each other in threads) but chat really isn't that bad. We're very friendly, we love new people, we post silly pictures, we talk about Star Trek, we tease each other gently, and we even try to help each other with all kinds of things. And we're all on our best behavior with new visitors--even Excalibur.

[Exy]

I almost don't want to respond because, if you are such a giant pussy you won't use your "real" username over something as trivial as this, you pretty much don't deserve the respect of a response.

So don't respond next time. Jesus, Myrnalene, you're not going to manage to "defend" yourself against someone who's just posting to get a rise out of you.