+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 42 of 42

Thread: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

  1. #1
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    5,891

    Default Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    I thought it might be constructive to have members weigh in on this thread, which NAF started in the Hive.

    Before I make a comment, though, I would like to clarify one thing. During the chat discussion about sending the apology e-mails, at no time was it ever a plan for Myrnalene, Auntbeast, or me to send any of the e-mails. NAF made this statement on Giraffe, I corrected him there, and while he says he understood that, he seems to be saying the same thing there. I'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but I just want to set the record straight on that.

    Regarding NAF's comments, though, I wanted to say that I think transparency has been highly overrated. What difference does it make what conversation the mods have, if we are all happy with their conclusions? I for one rarely look at the Hive, and when I do I find it more frustrating than anything, because I usually have an opinion, which of course I can't voice in there. The bottom line is, we see the moderator actions or inactions. If we aren't happy with them, we can start a thread here in ADF or the Thunderdome to discuss.

    If it's more comfortable for the mods to PM each other, or have a private forum, I don't have a problem with that. And I'm wondering how many posters who have stuck around here for the duration feel the same way.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Not a member for the duration but I have been here long enough to think transparency is bullshit. But a "united front" is bullshit as well. They should hide the hive and when a true controversy happens and I mean a real one, not some deletions or a porn posting. Have that thread where is was discussed moved into an open hive so the members can see how the moderators handled it if need be. An open records law but only on real issues.

    If I tell someone to fuck off in an inappropriate arena, 101 me for a while that is my warning. If someone asks why you did it, tell them, if they argue, 101 them.


    With this post I should be future purge proof HOOAH!

  3. #3
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,597

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    I was one of the biggest advocates for transparency, but now, as much as it makes me shudder to say it :wink: , I agree with Winston Smith.

    Transparency was a bigger issue for me when I was unhappy with the overall tone of moderation here and the overzealousless of some mods in particular. However, we have as a board voted for our smaller mod team and I feel comfortable trusting them to make sensible decisions. In a perfect world I suppose I would still like to see all discussions in the Hive, but if trying to do that is leading to mod inaction and loss of communication, it's not worth it.
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

  4. #4
    Oliphaunt
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena
    Before I make a comment, though, I would like to clarify one thing. During the chat discussion about sending the apology e-mails, at no time was it ever a plan for Myrnalene, Auntbeast, or me to send any of the e-mails.
    I don't want to butt in to this thread. I would rather keep it free from moderator involvement for a bit, but I should say that I do understand that it wasn't the plan to have you guys give out the emails, but the impression that the OP of the thread Jim started gave was that it was the plan. Because we were simply PMd to be told that the thread had been started it gave me the feeling that Jim had once again just decided what to do. (Which was not the case, but it felt like it at the time) That is actually what started our PM conversation, which is in turn what lead to me starting the thread because I realized durring that conversation that the mods really weren't talking to each other.

    Anyway, hope that clears things up.

  5. #5
    Oliphaunt featherlou's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,209

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    I like being able to see the moderators doing their moderator thing, since one of my beefs with the Dope was their complete lack of letting members know *anything* that was going on behind the scenes (even when it would have greatly benefited the members to see how things came about). I can see where doing all their moderating by forum can get unwieldy, though. I like the idea of a moderator chat channel - we can have more than one channel here, can't we? Perhaps the general membership could peek at that channel but not contribute to it, even.

  6. #6
    Prehistoric Bitchslapper Sarahfeena's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    5,891

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by NAF1138
    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena
    Before I make a comment, though, I would like to clarify one thing. During the chat discussion about sending the apology e-mails, at no time was it ever a plan for Myrnalene, Auntbeast, or me to send any of the e-mails.
    I don't want to butt in to this thread. I would rather keep it free from moderator involvement for a bit, but I should say that I do understand that it wasn't the plan to have you guys give out the emails, but the impression that the OP of the thread Jim started gave was that it was the plan. Because we were simply PMd to be told that the thread had been started it gave me the feeling that Jim had once again just decided what to do. (Which was not the case, but it felt like it at the time) That is actually what started our PM conversation, which is in turn what lead to me starting the thread because I realized durring that conversation that the mods really weren't talking to each other.

    Anyway, hope that clears things up.
    It does, thank you.

    This brings up the other issue, which is that it seems as though some of our moderators are not as involved as maybe they should be. It DOES seem like Jim is left twisting in the wind an awful lot, which could easily be the reason that he is perceived as acting on his own. If you guys (mods) want consensus, then you need to be willing to check in on a regular (at LEAST daily) to check the hive and give opinions. Otherwise, sometimes the mods who are here are going to have to do it on their own.

  7. #7
    Oliphaunt
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena
    Quote Originally posted by NAF1138
    Quote Originally posted by Sarahfeena
    Before I make a comment, though, I would like to clarify one thing. During the chat discussion about sending the apology e-mails, at no time was it ever a plan for Myrnalene, Auntbeast, or me to send any of the e-mails.
    I don't want to butt in to this thread. I would rather keep it free from moderator involvement for a bit, but I should say that I do understand that it wasn't the plan to have you guys give out the emails, but the impression that the OP of the thread Jim started gave was that it was the plan. Because we were simply PMd to be told that the thread had been started it gave me the feeling that Jim had once again just decided what to do. (Which was not the case, but it felt like it at the time) That is actually what started our PM conversation, which is in turn what lead to me starting the thread because I realized durring that conversation that the mods really weren't talking to each other.

    Anyway, hope that clears things up.
    It does, thank you.

    This brings up the other issue, which is that it seems as though some of our moderators are not as involved as maybe they should be. It DOES seem like Jim is left twisting in the wind an awful lot, which could easily be the reason that he is perceived as acting on his own. If you guys (mods) want consensus, then you need to be willing to check in on a regular (at LEAST daily) to check the hive and give opinions. Otherwise, sometimes the mods who are here are going to have to do it on their own.

    Exactly my point. Ok, I will actually take my advice and let you all talk on your own now.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by featherlou
    I like being able to see the moderators doing their moderator thing, since one of my beefs with the Dope was their complete lack of letting members know *anything* that was going on behind the scenes (even when it would have greatly benefited the members to see how things came about). I can see where doing all their moderating by forum can get unwieldy, though. I like the idea of a moderator chat channel - we can have more than one channel here, can't we? Perhaps the general membership could peek at that channel but not contribute to it, even.
    The completely fabricated set up how I want it:
    What Exit? didn't like you but you didn't know it and you told someone to go blow a polar bear in the wrong forum the following occurs


    Poster feels insults reports you
    NAF asks for advice
    What Exit says "I will recuse myself since personally I find her annoying and cannot stand her."
    the rest of the moderators say "Nothing that a polite PM won't solve close it"

    End result, you get a PM and all is well in domebo land.


    The completely fabricated set up how you want it:
    What Exit? didn't like you but you didn't know it and you told someone to go blow a polar bear in the wrong forum the following occurs


    Poster feels insults reports you
    NAF asks for advice
    What Exit says "I will recuse myself since personally I find her annoying and cannot stand her."
    the rest of the moderators say "Nothing that a polite PM won't solve close it"

    End result, you get a PM and see that about What Exit and that pisses you off and from here on out things will be bitter.

  9. #9
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,597

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by featherlou
    I like the idea of a moderator chat channel - we can have more than one channel here, can't we? Perhaps the general membership could peek at that channel but not contribute to it, even.
    I think we would be right back where we stared with modes being reluctant to converse out in the open, with the additional problem of conversations being less structured and more ephemeral.

    I think the main thing is, if we do end of going with a separate mod forum, we need to try to prevent an "us v them" mentality between the mods and posters. The big problem with SDMB moderation isn't a lack of transparency, it's the disdainful attitude they have cultivated toward the membership and the reluctance to respond to questions and concerns with anything but stonewalling and defensiveness. Domebo is different, the mods were voted in by the membership and there is a smaller, more intimate tone to our board. As long as the mods continue to interact with us outside of their forum, we should be fine.
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

  10. #10
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    909

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Sorry to interrupt, but I wanted to show everyone my shiney new sig line!

  11. #11
    Elephant Feirefiz's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    802

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    I think there is a difference between moderator discussions on broader issues and their day-to-day business.
    When moderators discuss changes to the board organization or new rules or new policies for enforcing the rules, then it is a good thing if those discussions are in the open.
    On the other hand when specific instances are concerned I don't think much is gained through openness and something is lost through stifled communication. It should be possible to alert all moderators to problematic posts or ask for a second opinion without making the issue public. I think a separate (sub-)forum for that would be a good idea.

  12. #12
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Central NJ (near Bree)
    Posts
    10,071

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by Feirefiz
    I think there is a difference between moderator discussions on broader issues and their day-to-day business.
    When moderators discuss changes to the board organization or new rules or new policies for enforcing the rules, then it is a good thing if those discussions are in the open.
    On the other hand when specific instances are concerned I don't think much is gained through openness and something is lost through stifled communication. It should be possible to alert all moderators to problematic posts or ask for a second opinion without making the issue public. I think a separate (sub-)forum for that would be a good idea.
    This I like much better. Probably it is all others were saying, but it makes sense for me the way you put it.

  13. #13
    The Queen Zuul's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,908

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    This I like much better. Probably it is all others were saying, but it makes sense for me the way you put it.
    Yeah, that's kind of what we were saying. Feirefiz worded it nicely, though.
    So now they are just dirt-covered English people in fur pelts with credit cards.

  14. #14
    Stegodon Fenris's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    120

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    It also helps to hammer out issues in private and then present them to the posters for a decision: "We think that < blah > would be a really good idea. Here's some of the pros and cons we discussed before we came to this concencus. What do you folks think?" It still gets poster input, but you can at least have a proposal for the members to vote on and discuss.

  15. #15
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,597

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    ^^^^ yep
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

  16. #16
    Clueless but well-meaning Hatshepsut's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Indonesia
    Posts
    2,832

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    I don't follow these sorts of matters in great detail (you either all have more free time on your hands than I do, or - more likely - read and digest information more quickly) but I will observe that at some point all the transparency and democracy has a paralyzing effect. If I understand correctly, the exact wording of the apology letter was parsed for so long that McNutty was ready to tear his hair out, and because the open debate on what to do lasted so long, domebo missed the window for sending a letter out. Not that it matters a lot; I don't think failure to send a letter is a great tragedy. But it is an example of how things can get bogged down due to good intentions.

    I'd settle for ex post facto transparency, myself, in most cases. The Great Lurker Purge was an exceptional situation, in that once the action was taken it was impossible to undo. Most actions are less irrevocable, and in an atmosphere of trust and respect, any mistakes will likely be remedied.

    Sincerely,
    [del:21egs9aj]CairoCarol[/del:21egs9aj] Pollyanna

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    I love CRSP's idea that threads are private for a week and then moved to where we can see them. What could possibly go wrong?

    I vote that we call it translucent moderation.

  18. #18
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Central NJ (near Bree)
    Posts
    10,071

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread


  19. #19
    Member
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    No offense Winston since I don't know you from Adam. But you seem really like you want to say stuff that would be seen by many as negative. By that I mean

    While the intent is noble, in practice it is not sustainable because in the absence of steering (i.e. a united front vis-a-vis private discussion
    You should not steer, or present a united front. If you make an asshole decision the other moderators should publicly smack you down like they would any other poster.

    I would prefer the option to export threads to be at our discretion, instead of automagic.
    I agree with this but instead it should be our option not yours. If you banned a poster here and enough concern was shown it should be displayed with everything except personal information available. Personally if any moderator makes a mistake I see no reason to circle the wagons, the guilty mod accepts the finger whack and moves on. We are afterall only humans.

    What Caerie said, plus

    No automatic export of our threads to ADF. Exports should be at Mod discretion, if they are deemed valuable to the community (by the Mods).
    Notice a pattern here? I am not accusing you of trying to hide things but it sure seems like you want to say something about members that you hope they do not see. And frankly that worries me. If you have to moderate do it, don't be afraid of it. If you think someone is a bastard, tell them in the appropriate forum area. Don't use the hidden forum as your personal pit because when that happens is when the elitism happens and the posters will leave.

  20. #20
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,597

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    MultiTalent, Winston can of course respond, but in his "defense" let me say this:

    The problem with Winston Smith is that if he thinks someone is a fuckface, he will tell them that to their face whether it is appropriate or not, in the right forum or not, etc. Whatever is motivating him to want to disclose the mod threads at their own discretion instead of on a schedule, I really doubt it's an urge to talk crap about people without them finding out.
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

  21. #21
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Central NJ (near Bree)
    Posts
    10,071

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by Myrnalene
    MultiTalent, Winston can of course respond, but in his "defense" let me say this:

    The problem with Winston Smith is that if he thinks someone is a fuckface, he will tell them that to their face whether it is appropriate or not, in the right forum or not, etc. Whatever is motivating him to want to disclose the mod threads at their own discretion instead of on a schedule, I really doubt it's an urge to talk crap about people without them finding out.
    My kind of defense lawyer. I just made a similar defense for Beebs in Jali's thread.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    You defend him by pointing out he is clearly not the best personality to be a mod. I hope you are kidding.

  23. #23
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,597

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by MultiTalent
    You defend him by pointing out he is clearly not the best personality to be a mod. I hope you are kidding.
    Winston knows I did not vote for him.
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

  24. #24
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    909

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    MT, you're entitled to your opinion. I think you're reading too much into this, and assuming I have some nefarious intent, when actually all I want is to improve your experience here. Your suggestion that I'm going to hide in some forum talking smack about posters is absolutely rediculous. If I have a problem with a poster, I tell them in no uncertain terms exactly what I think of them.

    On preview - what they said.

  25. #25
    Elephant
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    909

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by MultiTalent
    You defend him by pointing out he is clearly not the best personality to be a mod. I hope you are kidding.
    She's defending me by saying I've a proven track record that says your suspicions miss the mark.

  26. #26
    Member
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    I openly suggested the hidden forum is the best idea. And the idea was to not move all the threads into the open as I posted in post 2. It would be during a true problem. As an example, if NAF gets uppity in the secret forum and goes completely apeshit insulting and closing threads, banning posters. That would be a secret hive thread that the members should see how everyone handled it. With minimal deletions. If a member gets boxed in 101 for a post they made, that discussion does not need to be seen. Barring the moderators not making it clear they are boxing the said poster in the yucky green or whatever color you use for such things.

    We do not need 100% transparency but we do need 100% honesty from the moderators.

  27. #27
    Member
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    An addition to that post, the moderators should not even have to discuss 101ing someone for an hour. That should be noted in the thread that caused the infraction but to discuss something that minor would be like a dad calling the mom to discuss the punishment for the toddler saying "no" in the middle of the problem.

  28. #28
    Oliphaunt
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by MultiTalent
    We do not need 100% transparency but we do need 100% honesty from the moderators.

    You know, at first I was just going to snark on your use of uppity...but I thought better of it because you ended with this.

    You're totally right about what we need. Honest moderation is better than transperant moderation.

  29. #29
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    S37 45 E144 45
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    The reason you seem to have all these discussion (Hive and PM) is that you (collectively) don't know what you are doing.

    If you have rules, stick to them.
    If it doesn't fit the rules, add to them.
    Rule changes can be either at the discretion of the admins (not mods) or the members but you waver between the two.
    If you have a troll, deal with them via the rules.
    If the rules say no insults outside TD and someone does, enforce the rules.
    If a mod insults someone outside the TD, smack them down too.

    Set down the rules as you would like them and stick to them. You then don't have this bullshit wavering between this and that on every new thing that comes up.

    If an admin wants to purge old members (stupid decision), then they do. That's what admins are for. If they made a mistake, then they apologise, send out an email and move on.

    The vacillation on some topics is making everyone sick and we're tired of changing mods, changing enforcement of rules and arguments about all this stuff.

    New forums, old forums deleted, threads moved, weird shit that just simply shouldn't happening.

    We've been here for 5 months now, your shit should be together.

  30. #30
    Oliphaunt featherlou's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,209

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Our shit is getting together; it doesn't happen overnight. I agree with pretty much all your points, though.

    The majority of our moderators here are accountable, honest (as far as we know), and persons of integrity; I too have no problems with trusting them to do their jobs. We still need to work the bugs out of the voting system, though. It would be easier to trust our moderators as the ones we voted for if they actually were the ones we voted for.

  31. #31
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    S37 45 E144 45
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Overnight? No.
    5 months later, yeah, most of the shit should be together and only a few crinkley edges to be ironed out.

    We still have mods and admins that "play around" with the forum settings just to see what they do. For fucks sake, if you don't have a reason to do that, then leave it the fuck alone. It's like people who play around on a new computer, changing settings and seeing "what will that do". I'll tell you what it does, it fucks everything up, that's what it does. Leave the fucking settings alone. Don't go into the ACP and dick around. Don't go looking for weird things to lookup what posters are doing. Leave it alone. Do the moderation, get on with it.

    5 months is more than long enough to have worked out you don't click that shiny button to see what it does.

    Additional problem is that people think this is a democracy. It isn't. The admins and mods would like everyone to be happy which is why they don't undertake certain actions until everyone agrees with the decision. 'tain gonna happen.

    You simply cannot make everyone happy all the time.

    The plebs don't get a say in moderation decisions, that why we have mods.

    Make a decision in line with the rules, do it, ignore the flames, move on. Don't keep asking us what we want because we all want different things.

    e.g. I'd be happy for socks to be allowed, anytime, anywhere, treated as posters. If they dick around, they are treated the same as a poster. Trying to control socks and expecting the community to all agree is ludicrous and insanity lies that way.

    e.g. The email that was to be sent out after the purge. Jebus, what a clusterfuck. I don't read an email from a forum site like I would a legal document. Say you fucked up, apologise, say you would like them to re-register, end of story. Agonising over words like they're a legal document with input from the community means you never get around to it.

  32. #32
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by featherlou
    It would be easier to trust our moderators as the ones we voted for if they actually were the ones we voted for.
    Agreed. Who is zuul? I don't remember s/he being voted on. And wasn't pepperlandgirl voted out? :dub:

  33. #33
    my god, he's full of stars... OneCentStamp's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    6,993

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by Carol Stream
    Quote Originally posted by featherlou
    It would be easier to trust our moderators as the ones we voted for if they actually were the ones we voted for.
    Agreed. Who is zuul? I don't remember s/he being voted on. And wasn't pepperlandgirl voted out? :dub:
    zuul is formerly Caerie. pepperlandgirl agreed to be the admin of the front page material, and I don't believe she functions as a mod in the forums. I may be wrong.
    "You laugh at me because I'm different; I laugh at you because I'm on nitrous."

    find me at Goodreads

  34. #34
    MOON GIRL FIGHTS CRIME Myrnalene's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,597

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    pepper has limited mod powers in the Front Page News forum only.

    Quote Originally posted by pepperlandgirl
    Yeah, NAF1138, I do not have any sort of moderator powers outside of my forum. And even in my forum, my "powers" are pretty limited. I can move threads, split threads, issue warnings, etc, but I can't look up user info, or put users in Room 101, etc. Also, obviously, I can see and post in The Hive.
    everything in nature is sort of gross when you look at it too closely. what is an apple? basically the uterus of a tree - terrifel

  35. #35
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by OneCentStamp
    Quote Originally posted by Carol Stream
    Quote Originally posted by featherlou
    It would be easier to trust our moderators as the ones we voted for if they actually were the ones we voted for.
    Agreed. Who is zuul? I don't remember s/he being voted on. And wasn't pepperlandgirl voted out? :dub:
    zuul is formerly Caerie. pepperlandgirl agreed to be the admin of the front page material, and I don't believe she functions as a mod in the forums. I may be wrong.
    Thanks for the info.

  36. #36
    Stegodon Heffalump's avatar
    Registered
    May 2009
    Posts
    341

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by Caught@Work
    Additional problem is that people think this is a democracy. It isn't.
    <stuff>
    e.g. I'd be happy for socks to be allowed, anytime, anywhere, treated as posters. If they dick around, they are treated the same as a poster. Trying to control socks and expecting the community to all agree is ludicrous and insanity lies that way.
    If this isn't a democracy, why does anyone care what you think about socks?

    Unless it's a monarchy and you're the King.

    If that's true, are you the bald guy on the banner? :wink:

  37. #37
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    S37 45 E144 45
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    I'd guess they don't, but in the non-democracy I still have an opinion even if the evil overlords choose to ignore it.

  38. #38
    Stegodon Heffalump's avatar
    Registered
    May 2009
    Posts
    341

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by Caught@Work
    I'd guess they don't, but in the non-democracy I still have an opinion even if the evil overlords choose to ignore it.
    I'm going to guess then, and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, that you still mean that there's democracy here. But you feel it should be more representational through the mods rather than direct through the vote of all the posters.

    Because I don't think you mean that the mods should make up the rules as they go along. Or do you?*

    **not* a rhetorical or sarcastic question

  39. #39
    Member
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    S37 45 E144 45
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    I don't believe we are a democracy. The admins and mod still do things that we don't like and they don't ask us all the time, so no it's not democratic. Even the vote for the mods was not democratic. How longs was the poll? A week? Two? Did everyone know it was happening? Why did we have it? Why did we need to change mods? No, it was a decision by the admins to do that and it was right royally fucked up.

    I believe that after 5 months, we should have the rules pretty much under control, but from the vacillation around the place we don't. If we were 1 month in, the rules get a pass as the admins and mods are working out hw to behave. 2 months, they should be tighter. After 5 months they should be pretty damn good.

    This is not a mammoth government. We have, what, half a dozen people running the place and they still can't agree. I really don't care WHAT they agree, just agree something and do it.

    If the populous rise up, then they have a chance to amend it (but they don't always do so, so it's not a democracy). It's sort of like a benevolent dictatorship. Bitch if you want,but don't expect the ruling class to listen or change.

    It's not my board so I will play by the rules of the admins and mods. If they want to seek clarification each time a decision is required it will do no good to the community. If a decision "this" time is different to a decision "next" time, it will do the community no good. So in that I agree with you that they shouldn't make up the rules as they go along. The rules should be set, whether by "popular vote" (which won't work with many socks around)or by decree, but damn it, set the rules and stick to them.

    Consistency, whether good or bad is the key to keeping a forum running nicely (note, not necessarily happily).

    The SDMB is NOT a place to model this site on. The Giraffe Boards have a few issues, but essentially you could get away with murder there. They also seems like a lot more fun and less angsty than some of the decision makers here.

    Write the rules, lighten up, ignore the flames (as not everyone will be happy) and move along. If someone wants to flame out, let them. You (generic you) don't have to apologise or try to make everyone like you by making a popular decision. Make a decision, stick to it, move along.

  40. #40
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Central NJ (near Bree)
    Posts
    10,071

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Caught@Work, good suggestions and we are finally trying to adopt many of them it seems like. The Mod election and reduction was strictly the decision of the board owner. Thus not democratic, but autocratic.

    Though unpaid, I am effectively an employee of the board and it is at will employment so while I might not like every decision I try to follow the direction given.

    The board is democratic on many issues but not 100%. We are also giving up the ghost for now of being 100% transparent and trying mostly transparent. Again, not my idea, but I am willing to give it a try and see if it helps.

    The Sock rule is changing today. I will post an announcement about that and several other changes for this week sometime today.

    The biggest one is we do now officially have a hidden forum and we will be using 101 more often for the few rules violation we have to deal with. All moderators now have the ability and instructions on how to 101 someone.

  41. #41
    Oliphaunt
    Registered
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    Quote Originally posted by Caught@Work
    The reason you seem to have all these discussion (Hive and PM) is that you (collectively) don't know what you are doing.
    I have sat down to write a response to this at least 3 times and each time I got called away before I was finished and forgot about it.

    My feeling is that you post that I quoted and snipped, and much of your other posts are essentially correct. But, and I feel this is important, the real question is why has this happened? We absolutely should have our shit together at this point, and I got to wondering about why. My post in the Hive is my response to thinking about that question. I really believe (though I could be wrong) that the reason why we have all the other problems you indicated is because the mods were not working as a team and that lack of communication was preventing us from getting our shit together. I am not talking about debating every little minor item, but I am talking about us all having the same understanding of what types of thing are rules violations and what aren't, and when we should step in and get involved in a thread or if we should just sit back. We never really talked about that sort of stuff before, and I am hoping that with the changes that are being made we will have the opportunity to all get on the same page, and when that happens all the rest will click.

  42. #42
    Member
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Member commentary on NAF1138's hive thread

    So in the end, you're going to do things exactly the way they do it at giraffe except for chat. Maybe they'll consider that merger now.

+ Reply to thread

Posting rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts