Regarding the potential banning of Misanthropic Contrarian

[Exy]

Triggered by this hive thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3510

Let me explain something that has, apparently, eluded much of the moderatorial staff. I will try to use short enough words that you can understand this, although in truth I'm not sure any explanation will suffice for those to whom this is not already obvious.

You cannot keep anyone out of here. If MC chose, he could create socks. He could use free anonymous proxy services to evade IP bans. He could easily post illegal material here that way. Even failing that, he could post links here at Stormfront and NAMBLA and anywhere else without being able to log in here at all. (Not that I imagine they would bother with us anyway.) At any rate, that wouldn't really be necessary, as your toolbox does not contain any mechanism to stop him from posting if he wants to.

Up until this point, my understanding was that Domebo policy was going to be to stick problem users in 101 forever rather than banning. If the administrators have changed their mind on this, it doesn't make much difference to me. But please do not use some imagined threat of posting illegal images or inviting bad guys to join us as your rationale, since he can do those things just as easily even if he is banned.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.

[Myrnalene]

I agree, the idea that banning him would prevent him from carrying out any of his threats does not bear scrutiny. Not to mention he has been here for months and had done nothing more than post naughty words. I don't even think he swore the couple of times he was in chat. He's yanking your chains.

There has been a ongoing issue with some of the mods wanting to ban MC because they find him distasteful, or because "the joke isn't funny anymore". That is not a legitimate reason for banning IMO. If you are sick of him, just stay out of the small area of the board that he posts in.

[beebs]

There has been a ongoing issue with some of the mods wanting to ban MC because they find him distasteful, or because "the joke isn't funny anymore". If you are sick of him, just stay out of the small area of the board that he posts in.

It's sort of the mod's job to not ignore the stuff he posts in these forums and chat. I really don't care to vote yea/nay for his banning, but you're asking them not to do their job. A job that the board democratically voted them into their positions to do.

The argument you seem to be making is that banning him won't stop him. And if the mods don't like him then they should just ignore him. I say, if you, yourself, thinks it's too hard to control what he posts here, then you can ignore him and just let the mods do their job. By Exy's opinion it seems like more of a hassle than anything else... why does he care though? It's not his job.

[AllWalker]

There has been a ongoing issue with some of the mods wanting to ban MC because they find him distasteful, or because "the joke isn't funny anymore". If you are sick of him, just stay out of the small area of the board that he posts in.

It's sort of the mod's job to not ignore the stuff he posts in these forums and chat. I really don't care to vote yea/nay for his banning, but you're asking them not to do their job. A job that the board democratically voted them into their positions to do.

The argument you seem to be making is that banning him won't stop him. And if the mods don't like him then they should just ignore him. I say, if you, yourself, thinks it's too hard to control what he posts here, then you can ignore him and just let the mods do their job. By Exy's opinion it seems like more of a hassle than anything else... why does he care though? It's not his job.

It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

[McNutty]

It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if someone is threatening to do something which could potentially cause the board (and, ahem, it's host(s)) some legal trouble, such as posting child porn, they should be booted un-fucking-ceremoniously. I am pretty confident that there will be no actual legal problems if someone decides to post some child porn using my server, but I'm also pretty sure it's got a potential for being a serious pain in the ass before it is proven not to be a real legal problem. Given the choice, I say ban the fucker. I don't give a shit if this is "why the board was established." I love the idea of being democratic and open and all that until it becomes a crippling downfall that prevents us from just seeing what's up and dealing with it. The guy isn't contributing anything and has hinted at a desire to cause trouble. Fuck him.

[Glazer]

For a long time I was in the leave him be camp. Thinking that if we give him a place to vent and spew he wont feel the need to post with socks any more than he already has. Especially if his socks are all quickly baned or locked away.

But now that he has threatened to post illegal child porn we must ban him. Even if we can't stop him from doing it anyway. At least we can show that we tried to stop him. And did not knowingly provide a place for him to distribute child porn.

I wish I had confidence that our governments would not go after CRSP or McNutty, for the actions of an angry little man, but I don't.

[Winston Smith]

Triggered by this hive thread: http://domebo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3510

Let me explain something that has, apparently, eluded much of the moderatorial staff. I will try to use short enough words that you can understand this, although in truth I'm not sure any explanation will suffice for those to whom this is not already obvious.

Oooh! Condescension! What a novel approach to criticisng the Mod Staff! Utterly original!

You cannot keep anyone out of here. If MC chose, he could create socks. He could use free anonymous proxy services to evade IP bans. He could easily post illegal material here that way. Even failing that, he could post links here at Stormfront and NAMBLA and anywhere else without being able to log in here at all. (Not that I imagine they would bother with us anyway.) At any rate, that wouldn't really be necessary, as your toolbox does not contain any mechanism to stop him from posting if he wants to.

Our toolbox does contain a 'mechanism' to stop trolls and losers from posting here - the Moderator Staff. Despite the fact that in the next sentence you're going to interpret board policy to make it appear we are not observing our own stated policy, it is at the discretion of the Mod Staff to banish or ban. Also, we are not obligated to put every case to a vote.

Up until this point, my understanding was that Domebo policy was going to be to stick problem users in 101 forever rather than banning. If the administrators have changed their mind on this, it doesn't make much difference to me. But please do not use some imagined threat of posting illegal images or inviting bad guys to join us as your rationale, since he can do those things just as easily even if he is banned.

Your understanding was incorrect. MC was a troll, and I used my discretion to ban him. I don't need to make excuses or trump up some real or imagined threat.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.

You're welcome.

[Winston Smith]

I agree, the idea that banning him would prevent him from carrying out any of his threats does not bear scrutiny. Not to mention he has been here for months and had done nothing more than post naughty words. I don't even think he swore the couple of times he was in chat. He's yanking your chains.

There has been a ongoing issue with some of the mods wanting to ban MC because they find him distasteful, or because "the joke isn't funny anymore". That is not a legitimate reason for banning IMO. If you are sick of him, just stay out of the small area of the board that he posts in.

Myrna, MC has been banned. Your agreement with Exy is irrelevent, as is your argument against MC's banning. Would you have us put every troll banning to a vote? I look forward to reading your thoughts on this over at the SnakrPit...

[Winston Smith]

It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

Incorrect. This is a general interest message board, not the Wild Wild West. Do you even know who you are defending here? Have you read his thread in Room 101? I can only think of a couple reasons why anyone would want to keep MC around at this point. And 'Freedom of Speech' is certainly not one of them.

[Winston Smith]

It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if someone is threatening to do something which could potentially cause the board (and, ahem, it's host(s)) some legal trouble, such as posting child porn, they should be booted un-fucking-ceremoniously. I am pretty confident that there will be no actual legal problems if someone decides to post some child porn using my server, but I'm also pretty sure it's got a potential for being a serious pain in the ass before it is proven not to be a real legal problem. Given the choice, I say ban the fucker. I don't give a shit if this is "why the board was established." I love the idea of being democratic and open and all that until it becomes a crippling downfall that prevents us from just seeing what's up and dealing with it. The guy isn't contributing anything and has hinted at a desire to cause trouble. Fuck him.

Thanks for getting my back, McNutty. Let's just hope the rest of the Mod Staff doesn't overrule this decision and leave my ass hanging out in the breeze.

[Myrnalene]

Ok, so let me get this straight. The other mods (McNutty is not a mod) voted to keep him in Room 101 but since you want him gone, he's gone? And if the other mods retain their opinions they are leaving your ass out in the breeze? The only person who has leave to act like that is CRSP, and he never does it. So I will ask you as nicely as I can, who the fuck do you think you are?

Winston, your "wild card" "loose cannon" act has gotten old as shit. You are the only mod who has this urge to cultivate this crazy lone wolf image. You are the only mod who is routinely rude to the membership. Considering you barely squeaked into last place (thanks to the nonnies who thought it would be a laff to put you over the top) the idea that you have this right to make unilateral decisions (which no one else does) is fucking laughable. Your ego is staggering.

[What Exit?]

I think MC did go too far this time. I don't generally read his missives at this point and Winston did not link or quote the specific language that resulted in the ban to protect the board. I have not seen an argument yet to vote to overturn Winston's decision and I think his only problem the other day was assuming we knew what he was talking about. So far in this thread, he, McNutty and Glazer have offered up arguments that sway me that MC needs to go.

Also for what it is worth, starting the argument against the banning of MC as Excalibur did with this:

Let me explain something that has, apparently, eluded much of the moderatorial staff. I will try to use short enough words that you can understand this, although in truth I'm not sure any explanation will suffice for those to whom this is not already obvious.

Is not too likely to be received well by the mod staff when not one of us had yet voted one way or the other on MC's banning. If he read the Hive thread and I assume he did, he'll know that the votes were for banning if MC chatted again. I was the only one that came in later to post again to offer lukewarm support for banning. So insult away at Winston and I, but consider an apology to the other 4 at least.

Now I will go back to troubleshooting the Chat code to lock the 101 group out of chat. This hole as led to the current issues. CIAS and I are both working on it when we can.

[AllWalker]

It isn't the mod's job to ban people, though. That's not what this place is about. The mods are supposed to stay out of the affairs of the board as much as possible, and the whole idea of Romm 101 is to quarantine the troublesome posters without entirely excluding them. Banning is heavy handed, which flies in the face of why this board was established.

Incorrect. This is a general interest message board, not the Wild Wild West. Do you even know who you are defending here? Have you read his thread in Room 101? I can only think of a couple reasons why anyone would want to keep MC around at this point. And 'Freedom of Speech' is certainly not one of them.

I've read his stuff, sure. It's trolling in it's purest form. But I'm not defending him - throw him in 101 and leave him to rot for all I care. I am, actually, interested in keeping him around in the interests of free speech, and I don't see why such an idea is inconceivable. Since he threatened to post childporn then maybe he should be banned, but that should be the reason - not just some excuse for the mods to lock out a troll.

Now I will go back to troubleshooting the Chat code to lock the 101 group out of chat. This hole as led to the current issues. CIAS and I are both working on it when we can.

Thank you, we do appreciate it. The tighter 101 is, the stronger my believe that quarantining trolls is better than banning them, no matter how obnoxious they are.

[Myrnalene]

What Exit? of course it's perfectly ok for you to change your mind and I respect that. If you all agree he should go, he should go.

Is not too likely to be received well by the mod staff when not one of us had yet voted one way or the other on MC's banning. If he read the Hive thread and I assume he did, he'll know that the votes were for banning if MC chatted again. I was the only one that came in later to post again to offer lukewarm support for banning. So insult away at Winston and I, but consider an apology to the other 4 at least.

Jim, this doesn't make any sense. In one sentence you say there was no vote and then in the next sentence you say there was. My reading on the situation was what you say in your second sentence, that the vote was to ban him if he posted in chat. Has he posted in chat since that vote was taken?

And if your first sentence is true and there was not a vote, then why the fuck did Winston take it upon himself to ban him? I know his response will be along the lines of hey man, I don't need no one's permission! But what do you think, Jim?

[What Exit?]

Room 101 no longer allows images to be posted. So I have removed the first of two holes to prevent MC from posting something that will get CRSP or McNutty in trouble.

This to me was the reason I found the argument to ban MC compelling and it has not been refuted, CIAS and I might be close to fixing chat.

[Myrnalene]

Room 101 no longer allows images to be posted. So I have removed the first of two holes to prevent MC from posting something that will get CRSP or McNutty in trouble.

This to me was the reason I found the argument to ban MC compelling and it has not been refuted, CIAS and I might be close to fixing chat.

So, if this happens there would be no reason MC would be a threat, right? Unless we really think Stormfront and NAMBLA give the teeny tiniest of fucks about this board?

Please address my question on whether it is OK for one mod to ban someone even if most of the other mods have voted against the banning.

[What Exit?]

Room 101 no longer allows images to be posted. So I have removed the first of two holes to prevent MC from posting something that will get CRSP or McNutty in trouble.

This to me was the reason I found the argument to ban MC compelling and it has not been refuted, CIAS and I might be close to fixing chat.

So, if this happens there would be no reason MC would be a threat, right? Unless we really think Stormfront and NAMBLA give the teeny tiniest of fucks about this board?

Please address my question on whether it is OK for one mod to ban someone even if most of the other mods have voted against the banning.

If we fix chat, I see no reason to ban the shit smearing troll known as MC no matter how worthless his ravings appear to most people on the board. Did I mention that the chat code stinks?

As to Winston's actions, he took the right steps but failed to explain why he took them. If the board is in actual trouble we cannot wait to discuss it. We should act. I did not hesitate during the various attacks on the board for things that threaten the board. The other mods should not either.

A banning can always be changed later.

[Glazer]

[quote=What Exit?]

Room 101 no longer allows images to be posted. So I have removed the first of two holes to prevent MC from posting something that will get CRSP or McNutty in trouble.

This to me was the reason I found the argument to ban MC compelling and it has not been refuted, CIAS and I might be close to fixing chat.

So, if this happens there would be no reason MC would be a threat, right? Unless we really think Stormfront and NAMBLA give the teeny tiniest of fucks about this board?

Please address my question on whether it is OK for one mod to ban someone even if most of the other mods have voted against the banning.

If we fix chat, I see no reason to ban the shit smearing troll known as MC no matter how worthless his ravings appear to most people on the board. Did I mention that the chat code stinks?

As to Winston's actions, he took the right steps but failed to explain why he took them. If the board is in actual trouble we cannot wait to discuss it. We should act. I did not hesitate during the various attacks on the board for things that threaten the board. The other mods should not either.

A banning can always be changed later.[/quote:z5qmceri]

I agree as long as he can't post pics let him stay. Having a place to vent is probably therapeutic for him. And he does provide some small amusement for a few posters. Although it is hard to keep cleaning his spittle off the backside of my screen.

[featherlou]

Not every country in the world sees Free Speech as an absolute. There are many countries that don't allow hate speech under the umbrella of free speech (I live in one of them, and I think the UKers do, too). I have no problem with toasting some ass who has no respect for anyone else, adds nothing to the site, and is now making threats that have potential to have real life implications for people here (who, I might add, have volunteered far above and beyond what could be expected of people).

[Sarahfeena]

I believe in free speech 100%, I just don't agree that a tiny little message board has to provide the platform for it.

But that's not my real issue with MC at this point. My issue is with the argument that those who don't like him should just avoid those few threads he can participate in. The thing is, it's not just that it's a few threads, it's that it's an entire forum. And while I get that the point of locking up the trolls is supposed to provide amusement, it's not at this point, except for a tiny minority of posters. Even if other, more interesting trolls get locked up in there, their threads are going to be taken over the same way.

And while I realize that MC could still come back, he could do that now, anyway...what's stopping him from creating those sock accounts right now? Whether he's locked up in 101 or not, whether he's banned or not, makes no difference.

So my question is, what IS the point of 101? If we are that committed to free speech, then fine, leave him in there. But if we're doing it for our own amusement, is anyone still amused at this point?

[What Exit?]

I believe in free speech 100%, I just don't agree that a tiny little message board has to provide the platform for it.

But that's not my real issue with MC at this point. My issue is with the argument that those who don't like him should just avoid those few threads he can participate in. The thing is, it's not just that it's a few threads, it's that it's an entire forum. And while I get that the point of locking up the trolls is supposed to provide amusement, it's not at this point, except for a tiny minority of posters. Even if other, more interesting trolls get locked up in there, their threads are going to be taken over the same way.

And while I realize that MC could still come back, he could do that now, anyway...what's stopping him from creating those sock accounts right now? Whether he's locked up in 101 or not, whether he's banned or not, makes no difference.

So my question is, what IS the point of 101? If we are that committed to free speech, then fine, leave him in there. But if we're doing it for our own amusement, is anyone still amused at this point?

Sarah, apparently some are still amused by him. By the way if it made things better, we could make a Forum for MC.

I am not amused by him and mostly ignore him, but as long as multiple posters enjoy exchanges with him, I would honestly like to make it so he can have his place to rant and rave.

[Winston Smith]

Ok, so let me get this straight. The other mods (McNutty is not a mod) voted to keep him in Room 101 but since you want him gone, he's gone? And if the other mods retain their opinions they are leaving your ass out in the breeze? The only person who has leave to act like that is CRSP, and he never does it. So I will ask you as nicely as I can, who the fuck do you think you are?

Winston, your "wild card" "loose cannon" act has gotten old as shit. You are the only mod who has this urge to cultivate this crazy lone wolf image. You are the only mod who is routinely rude to the membership. Considering you barely squeaked into last place (thanks to the nonnies who thought it would be a laff to put you over the top) the idea that you have this right to make unilateral decisions (which no one else does) is fucking laughable. Your ego is staggering.

First of all, the idea that the mods owe you an explanation for every mod action is what is laughable here.

Second, banning a troll is fully within the scope of my designated responsibilities as a mod here, regardless of your interpretation of 'Mod', 'scope', 'duties' or 'troll'.

Third, this was far from a loose cannon act. I banned a known troll after taking note that he had escalated his threats.

Last: I'm rubber & you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.

[Exy]

The thing is, it's not just that it's a few threads, it's that it's an entire forum. And while I get that the point of locking up the trolls is supposed to provide amusement, it's not at this point, except for a tiny minority of posters. Even if other, more interesting trolls get locked up in there, their threads are going to be taken over the same way.

That's the point of Room 101. It's not supposed to have good threads in it -- they even disappear if no one posts for two days. The whole point of it is that bad users and bad content are stuck there. It's fine if people are amused by what goes on there, but I don't think the point was ever that we keep losers around as long as they amuse us and then kick them out once the joke's over. Room 101 is the trash can; the whole point of it is to hold refuse like Misanthropic Contrarian. Complaining about the contents of Room 101 is like complaining that you can't keep nice things in the trash can because it always has trash in it.

Besides, if there are still people sort of amused by MC's antics, doesn't that justify keeping him there in one single spot on the forums? Even if they are just a tiny minority? Everyone who doesn't like him has everywhere else to hang out instead.

First of all, the idea that the mods owe you an explanation for every mod action is what is laughable here.

Your attitude sucks.

[Winston Smith]

I would also like to go on record here with the following...

Exy & Myrna, I believe you both post here almost solely for the Snark Factor. You both proudly proclaim your Snarker status, and your new Chat Clique status. You're snarkers, bullies, and generally not good for the success of this board. Your support of MC bears this out. He was a troll, and you are proponents of trolling. I think you're protesting his banning because you want chaos, disorder and trouble here so that you'll be able to PALATR with the rest of the snarktards. Your constant shit-stirring, criticism and twisted interpretation of our policies is evidence enough. You are not proponents of free speech, or anything noble. I think you'd gladly see this board collapse beneath a pile of gay porn and raging trolls, just for the LULZ.

Just wanted that out there as a point of reference in case somebody strolled in here that wasn't familiar you and your shenanigans.

[Winston Smith]

Your attitude sucks.

So does yours. What's your point?

[Sarahfeena]

That's the point of Room 101. It's not supposed to have good threads in it -- they even disappear if no one posts for two days. The whole point of it is that bad users and bad content are stuck there. It's fine if people are amused by what goes on there, but I don't think the point was ever that we keep losers around as long as they amuse us and then kick them out once the joke's over. Room 101 is the trash can; the whole point of it is to hold refuse like Misanthropic Contrarian. Complaining about the contents of Room 101 is like complaining that you can't keep nice things in the trash can because it always has trash in it.

I usually take my garbage out to the curb, and it gets taken away. I don't leave it in the trash can indefinitely. I WAS under the impression that the idea was to keep trolls there for our own amusement.

Besides, if there are still people sort of amused by MC's antics, doesn't that justify keeping him there in one single spot on the forums? Even if they are just a tiny minority? Everyone who doesn't like him has everywhere else to hang out instead.

I'm not sure any forum is worth having if it only amuses like 5 people.

[Exy]

I would also like to go on record here with the following...

Exy & Myrna, I believe you both post here almost solely for the Snark Factor. You both proudly proclaim your Snarker status, and your new Chat Clique status. You're snarkers, bullies, and generally not good for the success of this board. Your support of MC bears this out. He was a troll, and you are proponents of trolling. I think you're protesting his banning because you want chaos, disorder and trouble here so that you'll be able to PALATR with the rest of the snarktards. Your constant shit-stirring, criticism and twisted interpretation of our policies is evidence enough. You are not proponents of free speech, or anything noble. I think you'd gladly see this board collapse beneath a pile of gay porn and raging trolls, just for the LULZ.

Just wanted that out there as a point of reference in case somebody strolled in here that wasn't familiar you and your shenanigans.

So this is the sort of post you think a good moderator would make here in ADF, huh?

[Winston Smith]

Yes. As a matter of fact I do. I think folks should know where you're coming from.

[featherlou]

First of all, the idea that the mods owe you an explanation for every mod action is what is laughable here.

Not really, considering that transparency is one of our guiding principles.

Second, banning a troll is fully within the scope of my designated responsibilities as a mod here, regardless of your interpretation of 'Mod', 'scope', 'duties' or 'troll'.

I don't know exactly how the modding works, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a banning (other than for spamming) take more of a consensus between mods rather than one mod making the decision?

[sublight]

Besides, if there are still people sort of amused by MC's antics, doesn't that justify keeping him there in one single spot on the forums? Even if they are just a tiny minority?

No.

That short enough for you?

[Winston Smith]

Yeah, lou, a banning usually is by concensus. MC has gone off the reservation, though, and I think there are times when somebody has to take decisive action and bear the criticism. This is one of those occasions.

[Myrnalene]

I would also like to go on record here with the following...

Exy & Myrna, I believe you both post here almost solely for the Snark Factor. You both proudly proclaim your Snarker status, and your new Chat Clique status. You're snarkers, bullies, and generally not good for the success of this board. Your support of MC bears this out. He was a troll, and you are proponents of trolling. I think you're protesting his banning because you want chaos, disorder and trouble here so that you'll be able to PALATR with the rest of the snarktards. Your constant shit-stirring, criticism and twisted interpretation of our policies is evidence enough. You are not proponents of free speech, or anything noble. I think you'd gladly see this board collapse beneath a pile of gay porn and raging trolls, just for the LULZ.

Just wanted that out there as a point of reference in case somebody strolled in here that wasn't familiar you and your shenanigans.

You are wrong.

The idea that keeping MC here, locked away in one tiny place where he cannot effect a single godamn thing on this board outside of his tiny sphere would lead to "chaos, disorder and trouble" is fucking asinine. The idea of you calling anyone else a bully when you are constantly insulting people in ADF (there's a forum for that you know, you may be familiar with it) is so beyond ironic.

You read the snackpit, so you know Exy and I are routinely raked over the coals over there. I have no fucking loyalty to them, that's fucking moronic. The idea that we are the head of some snarker army plotting to bring down Domebo is the kind of retarded character assassination that a Doper mod would use. What Exit? posts there, too, is he in on the conspiracy?

I don't have a problem with the policies of this board, or of the other mods here (the other bad ones resigned or were voted off). I have a problem with you, Winston, because you are a shitty mod. Behold, the only smart decision you ever made.

My posting style and temperment are not compatible with being a mod here. It's either be a mod and stop posting or step down.

[Sleeps w/Butterflies]

Wait, we're allowed to insult people outside of Thunderdome now? I could have sworn that was an actual rule of the board, but there I see Winston insulting Excalibur and Myrnalene.

I honestly don't care one way or another about MC, but did find it odd for Winston to do exactly what his fellow mods said they wouldn't do. Other than that, I really just don't care.

What does bug me is that he thinks it's perfectly fine to insult two posters in a forum where such things don't belong. As a mod he should be the EXAMPLE of the rule, not the exception. If you expect board members to follow the rules, how on earth can you break them and then DEFEND your right to do so as he did in post #28. In fact, let's look at that:

Yes. As a matter of fact I do. I think folks should know where you're coming from.

You think YOU should let folks know where they are coming from? Do you have any idea who incredibly arrogant that sounds? Do you think people can't read and decide for themselves about these two posters or do you think everyone needs your Cliff's Notes versions of posters to make it around the messageboard? I mean, I realize you'll just come in here and offer your excuses and take swipes at me and your usual MO that you've displayed above, but I'm honestly curious. Why do you think taking someone else's inventory and vomiting it out here because they happen to disagree with you is behavior that you should be defending?

[Sarahfeena]

Winston, I like you as a poster...you kind of crack me up, actually. But as a mod, dude, you are not comporting yourself well. You have to show some restraint in the way you treat people. You can't fling insults wherever you want. Even if someone else starts it, you have to rise above it a little bit...even if you're only acting as a regular poster. If you have a problem with someone, take it to the Thunderdome, like everyone else is supposed to.

I had my reservations about your coming back as mod, but I didn't care wildly enough to say so. Now I wish I had. It's not cool to be a maverick mod here...you're supposed to be representing us as a posting community, not making your own decisions willy-nilly.

Please keep in mind as you read this that I agree with you about MC, but I think at the very least there needs to be a mod consensus before a final decision is made.

[Zuul]

Woo, boy. Okay, a couple of points:

As a mod, my vote had been to ban him if he returned to chat or could not be kept out of it. I stand by that decision, because a long-term troll having free access to the chat room would not be pleasant.

Secondly, if there is a potential threat (such as a troll attack) it's better to ban than to allow the board to be damaged, if an admin isn't available or Room 101 is inadequate for containing the threat. If there was the potential for child pornography to be posted, banning until that potential could be neutralized was the correct action.

Third--and this is something no one has yet brought up apparently--MC did not threaten to post pictures. He threatened to post links. We can prevent people from posting images in any forum we want, but if someone maliciously wants to link to illegal or disturbing materials there is nothing to be done beyond handling it the old fashioned way: Ban and delete.

Finally, if we are a forum that intends to never, ever, ever, ever ban people, this is the future we have created for ourselves. We will have a subforum populated by people whom we cannot threaten or control in any manner. Is that what we want or not?

[The Logos]

While I am personally ambivalent on the banning of MC, I also readily acknowledge Caerie's logic, especially as stated in her fourth point. But I would like to reiterate what I had stated in chat: that for this action to carry force, it ought to be an IP ban. It is not a perfect, fool-proof measure, but it does have the benefit of being a relatively stronger action than an account ban to commend it.

[ulfhjorr]

Third--and this is something no one has yet brought up apparently--MC did not threaten to post pictures. He threatened to post links.

Oh no! Links!!!!!

Well, I didn't know where to stand on the banning issue, but if he was threatening to do something as dangerous as posting links, then by gods he must be stopped! Can you imagine the horrors that would follow from the posting of links?!?!?

[What Exit?]

While I am personally ambivalent on the banning of MC, I also readily acknowledge Caerie's logic, especially as stated in her fourth point. But I would like to reiterate what I had stated in chat: that for this action to carry force, it ought to be an IP ban. It is not a perfect, fool-proof measure, but it does have the benefit of being a relatively stronger action than an account ban to commend it.

IP bans are worthless for professional trolls like MC. We would have to ban proxies too and we have already decided not to do that.

[The Logos]

[quote=What Exit?]

While I am personally ambivalent on the banning of MC, I also readily acknowledge Caerie's logic, especially as stated in her fourth point. But I would like to reiterate what I had stated in chat: that for this action to carry force, it ought to be an IP ban. It is not a perfect, fool-proof measure, but it does have the benefit of being a relatively stronger action than an account ban to commend it.

IP bans are worthless for professional trolls like MC. We would have to ban proxies too and we have already decided not to do that.[/quote:1hzasz7p]

Well, as I said, it's not a perfect, fool-proof solution, but at least it gives the appearance of making the effort. (And I make this suggestion not in response only to MC's case in particular, but in general.)

[silenus]

Can't we just pass the hat and raise enough money to have MC whacked?

[Zuul]

Third--and this is something no one has yet brought up apparently--MC did not threaten to post pictures. He threatened to post links.

Oh no! Links!!!!!

Well, I didn't know where to stand on the banning issue, but if he was threatening to do something as dangerous as posting links, then by gods he must be stopped! Can you imagine the horrors that would follow from the posting of links?!?!?

:dub:

I think you misread my post there.

Unlike with pictures, there is no preventative measure to take against people posting malicious links, and as there isn't much to be done once they have been posted aside from deleting them and taking actions against the offenders it's not something worth working ourselves into a lather over.

[Baldwin]

Third--and this is something no one has yet brought up apparently--MC did not threaten to post pictures. He threatened to post links.

Oh no! Links!!!!!

Well, I didn't know where to stand on the banning issue, but if he was threatening to do something as dangerous as posting links, then by gods he must be stopped! Can you imagine the horrors that would follow from the posting of links?!?!?

:dub:

I think you misread my post there.

Unlike with pictures, there is no preventative measure to take against people posting malicious links, and as there isn't much to be done once they have been posted aside from deleting them and taking actions against the offenders it's not something worth working ourselves into a lather over.

Would it be possible to set up Room 101 so that it automatically deletes anything inside url codes?

[What Exit?]

Actually we can prevent 101-Restricted members from using all BBCode. But he can still post a broken link of course. I just did that in fact.

[Heffalump]

If you'll permit a comment from an outsider:

We will have a subforum populated by people whom we cannot threaten or control in any manner. Is that what we want or not?

You want forums filled with people you can threaten and control?

Must be fun times around here. :wink:

Actually we can prevent 101-Restricted members from using all BBCode. But he can still post a broken link of course. I just did that in fact.

If you can eliminate all links and images from Room 101 and restrict 101 restricted users from chat, what are the potential problems of leaving trolls contained in Room 101?

That's more of a question to the people that are voting to ban, I guess. I'm curious. What are your concerns?

[Zuul]

If you'll permit a comment from an outsider:

We will have a subforum populated by people whom we cannot threaten or control in any manner. Is that what we want or not?

You want forums filled with people you can threaten and control?

Must be fun times around here. :wink:

Nah, it's just that the people who care should know what it is that they want. I am actually more apathetic than anyone could ever dream.

[danceswithcats]

Good luck, Winston. I raised this same topic a while ago, and was shouted down by the same cadre who now oppose you. Betcha you'll get fucked in the next mod "election", too.

[What Exit?]

If you can eliminate all links and images from Room 101 and restrict 101 restricted users from chat, what are the potential problems of leaving trolls contained in Room 101?

That's more of a question to the people that are voting to ban, I guess. I'm curious. What are your concerns?

If we ever get chat fixed, I don't really care if MC stays. I seemed to have locked down the other holes that are not just an alternate account.

We have to watch out for Global Announcements, but the work around is simple. Chat is the deal breaker right now.

[Myrnalene]

Betcha you'll get fucked in the next mod "election", too.

.......what?

[Exy]

Good luck, Winston. I raised this same topic a while ago, and was shouted down by the same cadre who now oppose you. Betcha you'll get fucked in the next mod "election", too.

Yeah man. It's pretty terrible when a bunch of users don't comply with a moderator's demands. It's just against nature, really.

[pepperlandgirl]

Good luck, Winston. I raised this same topic a while ago, and was shouted down by the same cadre who now oppose you. Betcha you'll get fucked in the next mod "election", too.

When it comes to MC, I am literally ambivilent. I thought Room 101 was a bad idea when it was first suggested, but it's what we have now, and what we do with the trolls makes little to no difference to me. But come on. There are like 3 people in this thread who are annoyed by the banning enough to comment on it. Do you think that the small handful of people who post in chat have that much influence? Honestly?