Sunrise on Day 4, Pod People

[sublight]

What if paulwhoisaghost is scum and was bussing him?

On second thought, this part doesn't make any sense. Disregard.

[PrecambrianMollusc]

I think the only thing we can take away from that post is
If cowgirl is Scum, Paul is less likely to be scum as it would not make sense for scum to draw attention to Ulla clearing of paul, although Ulla post is just WIFOM.
If Cowgirl is town, it says nothing about Paul

Was Paul confirmed as AWOL by that point in the game - if not, it would be unreasonable to say she brought it up knowing Paul could not respond. The fact that cowgirl did raise something that we all pretty much know is pure wifom (Ulla clearing Paul) is a little suspicious - prehaps trying to float something out there to see what happens.

[Kat]

I'm not going to be back before the end of the Day, so I'm voting now: vote cowgirl

[sublight]

I don't feel very strong about any of the candidates, but I'm going to cast this vote just in case I don't get a chance to log in again. I plan to be back before sundown, though.

VOTE: zsofia. Like I said, I don't feel strongly about this one, and am very open to new theories.

[AllWalker]

I'm going to officially declare my suspicions of Zsofia at the moment, based on what has already been discussed and one additional point. Zsofia is a low volume poster, often a low content poster as well. This is lurking. However, she seems quick to jump to her own defense - mentioning suspicions of her summoned her from the lurky depths* to defend herself both toDay and Day 2. This suggests strategic lurking, a Scummy ploy.

However I am going to vote for cowgirl unless I receive a satisfactory explanation for the heavy use of the n00b card this game. Since she is a no-show toDay, I doubt I will get it. Dare I say it...

This game needs more cowgirl.

(D&R)

Vote cowgirl, unless she cares to argue her case.

*Please tell me no one has already patented the phrase "lurky depths" in regards to Mafia. I invented it, you all saw me!

[Zsofia]

What impression did I come away with? I find it ironic that she made the same type of error that Ulla called out Vox for and now I'm Vox.

What exactly do you mean by that? Are you talking about when Vox said that since we didn't have to talk about who we were going to vote for... When did I do that?

[cowgirl]

cowgirl, can you give us a brief rundown of your Mafia experience?

I played during one of the first games on the SDMB, and I played once or twice on the mafia board that was spawned off that one. All told, I have played about three games, watched a few more, and haven't done anything mafia-related in well over a year. So I have a bit of experience (enough to know what we do in the night-time threads) but it has been a while. Since those games were early in this community's experience with mafia, compared to this one they were pretty straightforward, with standard power roles. I joined this game because I was interested in the different ways the roles worked (e.g. people becoming scum over time, instead of all at once) but it has been a challenge for me to get my head around.

I can understand why you might think that asking a lot of questions="heavy use of the n00b card," but please also consider that it's how someone with no information might try to contribute to the town's analysis.

Now to re-read the thread and respond. I have not been here since I was on vacation for four days and I got frustrated and confused by all the subbing.

[AllWalker]

It is ironic that I'll be doing this. One of my arguments against Zsof was the rapid response to accusations, and then cowgirl jumps in as soon as I finish. But as I showed, Zsof has a history of that (2 is a history), and there were other ponts aside.

Unvote cowgirl
Vote Zsofia

[Winston Smith]

Vote cowgirl

For a couple reasons. First, I feel comfortable throwing in with Kat, as she has presented some pertty well-researched and presented summary information upon which she placed her vote. Second, as has been pointed out, lack of participation will kill this game, which already has a foot in the grave. I can get behind a lynch-the-lurker campaign at this point because I think it will breath life back into the game.

[PrecambrianMollusc]

Jesus - my home network keeps kicking me off. Long post condensed - sticking with Zofia for reasons Allwalker expounded
Off to bed - hope we got it right

[special ed]

Last point on Zofia - obviously still around as she popped up to defend herself - still not putting any votes or analysis of others out there though. Can't help but think she is keeping a very low profile.
Apologies if this sounds like I have a real thing for Z, I don't , just don't have a lot else.
I could get behind a cowgirl lynch - in light of Allwalkers points just made , it does seam she is overplaying the newb card. I worry those not voting are scum, just waiting to see which way the wind is blowing.

Willingness to switch bandwagons to me is a small scum tell. Town tends to pick their target and try to convince others. Scum are often willing to vote for someone (even a fellow scum if busing is called for to earn Town cred) Also, if the switch were made, PrecambrianMollusc is trying not to take accountability by saying it's Allwalker's case.

[cowgirl]

She also sees no other lynch possibilities [than Angel after her vanilla claim].

I explained that she was the best lynch possibility because, going from the info we had, she was the most likely to not be a power role. That is why I didn't see any other lynch possibilities: because everyone else had the potential to be a power role, and there was no compelling reason to lynch any of them and risk it.

I have the same problem here that I had before with zsofia’s WoW, she doesn’t see any other possibilities than the frontrunner(s) both Day 1 and Day 2, but she doesn’t seem to be looking anywhere else for possibilities herself.

I humbly suggest that you would find this to be true of whoever you WoW. (While we're at it, what does WoW mean?)

I did look for other possibilities myself but found that they were all equal. With the information I had about other possible frontrunners (i.e. none), I think it would have been rather anti-town to decide to vote to lynch one of them, because I could not have given a good reason.

She doesn’t mention here what tripped her scumdar [about Vox], but it wasn’t just him being quiet, since she listed that separately.

I did, there was something he said that intrigued me (here). The sentence had no verb so I didn't understand exactly what he meant, but it sounded interesting. I asked him to clarify later that Day (here), and he didn't post again. I was hoping he would elaborate on why he didn't (presumably) like the setup, because I myself was trying to get my head around the setup and what it meant.

Yes, the Vox/Ulla kerfluffle took front and center, but she doesn’t indicate what had made her suspicious of him on Day 2. If she was as suspicious of them as she says, why not have done some rereading during Night to have something ready to post at Dawn?

Again, I mentioned repeatedly (also here) that I was suspicious of him because he made a verbless statement and never clarified what he meant. I figured maybe that was consistent with scum trying to hide but not lurk. I did do some reading during Night but didn't come up with anything. That is why my suspicion remained a suspicion, and did not result in a vote.

I’d really like to hear cowgirl’s answer to this question: Her vote for OAOW was for starting a bandwagon on Claptree, at a point in where there was only 1 scum, but now that there’s 2 scum, it’s not relevant?

I felt OAOW was suspicious not because he started a bandwagon but because he behaved inconsistently. This was quite clearly stated in the post you quote.

Re: jumping in - note that it's Monday morning and I'm back at my computer for the first time in four days. This explains my posting pattern, at least.

[special ed]

I don't feel very strong about any of the candidates, but I'm going to cast this vote just in case I don't get a chance to log in again. I plan to be back before sundown, though.

VOTE: zsofia. Like I said, I don't feel strongly about this one, and am very open to new theories.

This post too seems to be trying to deny accountability.


Though, to be fair, I don't think any of us have said that we feel strong about the case. It just pings me a bit to read someone repeating that twice as he votes. (I'm not getting a strong Scummy vibe from this, really, I just putting some observations out there on our recent conversations)

[special ed]

Vote cowgirl

For a couple reasons. First, I feel comfortable throwing in with Kat, as she has presented some pertty well-researched and presented summary information upon which she placed her vote. Second, as has been pointed out, lack of participation will kill this game, which already has a foot in the grave. I can get behind a lynch-the-lurker campaign at this point because I think it will breath life back into the game.

I don't like this post either. He's shedding accountability too. He's following Kat's case as well as lynching a lurker because the game is in trouble, not because he things cowgirl is scum.

[special ed]

boy, I sounded like a nit-picky ass in those posts. I'm sorry about that. I'm just looking for something, anything to clue me in for my vote.

[Zsofia]

Honestly, there's a lot of scrumming around but nobody who really seems all that scummy, despite a lot of in-depth analysis. I think this game has lost critical mass because of all the subs - I'm voting for sublight because I do see the change in character, but then I think that could pretty much be true of a lot of people and we wouldn't notice because nobody is who they started out as. Anyway, it's common to be kind of frothy at the beginning because there's so little to go on.

vote sublight

[cowgirl]

I've been through this a few times now and it's clear to me that the case against Zsofia is stronger than the case against me. I responded to the case against me in a previous post, and the case against her is, in my opinion, stronger, and has not been rebutted:
Kat:

I also feel like she's doing a wonderful job of flying under the radar while still joining bandwagons. She agrees with people, but doesn't offer up any ideas of her own for discussion nor add much to the ideas that she agrees with. She twice distanced herself from her Angel vote, and she hasn't commented on anyone or any topic that wasn't brought up by someone else.

PrecambrianMollusc:

[she's] still not putting any votes or analysis of others out there though. Can't help but think she is keeping a very low profile.

And Allwalker:

Zsofia is a low volume poster, often a low content poster as well. This is lurking. However, she seems quick to jump to her own defense - mentioning suspicions of her summoned her from the lurky depths to defend herself both toDay and Day 2. This suggests strategic lurking, a Scummy ploy.

I can't see how it's pro-town to lynch me instead of her, when you compare the cases against us. So I am suspicious of her because of the arguments laid out above. My suspicion is compounded by the fact that the case against me (which I consider to be weak, and I know to be false, because I am town) provides convenient cover for anyone who might not want to vote for Zsofia. Having nothing more to go on:

Vote Zsofia

[sublight]

Honestly, there's a lot of scrumming around but nobody who really seems all that scummy, despite a lot of in-depth analysis. I think this game has lost critical mass because of all the subs - I'm voting for sublight because I do see the change in character, but then I think that could pretty much be true of a lot of people and we wouldn't notice because nobody is who they started out as. Anyway, it's common to be kind of frothy at the beginning because there's so little to go on.

vote sublight

An understandable position. No hard feelings.

[sublight]

It's about 1am here and I'm going to bed.

[Zsofia]

I can't see how it's pro-town to lynch me instead of her, when you compare the cases against us. So I am suspicious of her because of the arguments laid out above. My suspicion is compounded by the fact that the case against me (which I consider to be weak, and I know to be false, because I am town) provides convenient cover for anyone who might not want to vote for Zsofia. Having nothing more to go on:

I know I'm Town too, and I frankly think all the cases are weak. They've been weak all game because there's just not that much to go on, except for our little power role excitement yesterDay.

[Julie]

Vote count:

Zsofia: 3 (Precambrian Mollusc, sublight, AllWalker)

cowgirl: 2 (Kat, Winston Smith)

sublight: 1 (Zsofia)

AllWalker: 1 (special ed)

Winston Smith: 1 (AngeloftheNorth)




3.5 hours to end of Day.

Also, I have so far been unable to find a replacement for paulwhoisaghost. I fear I will not be able to find a replacement.

[cowgirl]

Vote count

Julie, I voted for Zsofia too.

[Julie]

Sorry, cowgirl. It was on my list, but I somehow overlooked you!


Vote count:

Zsofia: 4 (Precambrian Mollusc, sublight, AllWalker, cowgirl)

cowgirl: 2 (Kat, Winston Smith)

sublight: 1 (Zsofia)

AllWalker: 1 (special ed)

Winston Smith: 1 (AngeloftheNorth)

[Rabid Renaissance]

I hope we find a sub for Paul soon, I am very interested in what that person is going to say and how they are going to play.

Vote sublight

Primarily for how he played through the Total Ulla claim, because he seemed to ignore her being caught in a contradiction of her role, supplemented by his being particularly vociferous against Angel of the North and her initial vanilla suicide play, he also reacted to an alleged "snuggle" of me by Vox in the color of our psychoanalyst session, which he and Lucifer discussed for a post or two in light of me being suspicious, which was why I called them both out around that time. And last and least, a minor data point due to null-tell probability based on reactions to my idea, he didn't like my random voting idea.

[Julie]

Vote count:

Zsofia: 4 (Precambrian Mollusc, sublight, AllWalker, cowgirl)

cowgirl: 2 (Kat, Winston Smith)

sublight: 2 (Zsofia, Rabid Renaissance)

AllWalker: 1 (special ed)

Winston Smith: 1 (AngeloftheNorth)


Approximately 1.5 hours to end of Day.

[cowgirl]

Primarily for how he played through the Total Ulla claim, because he seemed to ignore her being caught in a contradiction of her role, supplemented by his being particularly vociferous against Angel of the North and her initial vanilla suicide play, he also reacted to an alleged "snuggle" of me by Vox in the color of our psychoanalyst session, which he and Lucifer discussed for a post or two in light of me being suspicious, which was why I called them both out around that time. And last and least, a minor data point due to null-tell probability based on reactions to my idea, he didn't like my random voting idea.

This is quite interesting, combined with the observation that his playing style changed. RabRen has stood out to me as someone who seems to be playing consistently pro-town so I am particularly sympathetic to this.

Unvote Zsofia

Vote sublight


... which would bring us to a tie. I am prepared to change my vote to avoid a no-lynch.

[Julie]

Vote count:

Zsofia: 3 (Precambrian Mollusc, sublight, AllWalker)

sublight: 3 (Zsofia, Rabid Renaissance, cowgirl)

cowgirl: 2 (Kat, Winston Smith)

AllWalker: 1 (special ed)

Winston Smith: 1 (AngeloftheNorth)


Approximately 1.5 hours to end of Day.

[Julie]

Sorry, that last should read: Approximately 1 hour to end of Day.

[Zsofia]

What is the rule on ties?

[Zsofia]

Crap - a tie is no lynch. I'm unvoting Sublight because if you don't lynch me today you won't get anywhere tomorrow, and I don't feel that no lynch right now is the most pro-Town thing that could be done.

unvote sublight

If somebody comes back in and changes their mind before the deadline I'll revote.

[Julie]

The sun is setting on Pleasanton. Another day has passed quietly, but looking around you can see that there are gaps in the crowd. Fewer and fewer residents turn out every day. Fewer and fewer townspeople survive each night.

Zsofia walks proudly to the fire. "I am a townsperson," she says, "but you can't know that unless I die. I am willing to die to save you, if I must." Silence. "Will no one speak up? Does no one care?"

She holds her head high, despite the heat that roars from the flames.

No one else steps forward. No one prevents her from casting her body on the flames. Too many in the crowd are pleased that she will die.

For Zsofia is a pure townsperson, willing to die so that others might live. And the Pod People are too delighted for words.

Day is over. Night 4 begins.

[Julie]

Night 4 thread is here.

Player List (10 players remain)

1. sublight
2. AllWalker ([del:1jeszqec]Claptree[/del:1jeszqec])
3. PrecambrianMollusc ([del:1jeszqec]What Exit?[/del:1jeszqec])
4. Winston Smith
5. Kat ([del:1jeszqec]Vox Imperatoris[/del:1jeszqec])
8. cowgirl
9. special ed ([del:1jeszqec]jali[/del:1jeszqec])
10. AngeloftheNorth([del:1jeszqec]pedescribe[/del:1jeszqec])
12. Rabid Renaissance
14. paulwhoisaghost



The Dead:

Day 1: 11. [del:1jeszqec]One and only Wanderers[/del:1jeszqec]--Vanilla Town (lynch)
Night 1: 17. [del:1jeszqec]special ed[/del:1jeszqec]--Vanilla Town (NK)
Day 2: 15. [del:1jeszqec]Angel of the North[/del:1jeszqec]--Vanilla Town (lynch)
Night 2: 6. [del:1jeszqec]AllWalker[/del:1jeszqec]--Vanilla Town (NK)
Day 3: 16. [del:1jeszqec]Total Ulla[/del:1jeszqec]--Pod Person (lynch)
Night 3: 13. [del:1jeszqec]Myrnalene[/del:1jeszqec]--Nosy Reporter[/quote]
Day 4: 7. [del:1jeszqec]Zsofia[/del:1jeszqec]--Vanilla Town (lynch)

[Rabid Renaissance]

Lovely.