Abortion Doctor Killed

[Paul in Qatar]

AP is reporting Dr. George TIler has been murdered at his church in Wichita, Kansas. Link. He had been repeatedly hauled into court by the local prosecutor.

No further details.

[Paul in Qatar]

A search of YouTube shows Bill O'Reilly has made the guy a target:



(and many other segments)

[CatInASuit]

Looks like it has happened.

Story Here.

[Zabigail]

Here's the Wikipedia article on him. They finally got him! I think that sometimes late term abortion is needful in order for the woman to survive. I am pro-choice, even though I wouldn't choose to have an abortion unless I was most probably going to die if I didn't. I don't know if anyone else is going to dare to step up to do what he did, and that scares me! ETA: Here's another news article about it too.

[featherlou]

I really, really hate that shit. Life is so sacred that you're willing to kill for it? "Hypocrite" doesn't even start to cover this mentality.

[Zabigail]

I really, really hate that shit. Life is so sacred that you're willing to kill for it? "Hypocrite" doesn't even start to cover this mentality.

I know, eh?

[Baldwin]

Here's the Wikipedia article on him. They finally got him! I think that sometimes late term abortion is needful in order for the woman to survive. I am pro-choice, even though I wouldn't choose to have an abortion unless I was most probably going to die if I didn't. I don't know if anyone else is going to dare to step up to do what he did, and that scares me! ETA: Here's another news article about it too.

This is from the linked article:

Anti-abortion group Operation Rescue issued a statement denouncing the shooting.

"We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down," said Troy Newman, Operation Rescue's president. "Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning."

Bullshit; how can they possibly be shocked?

[featherlou]

"Plausible deniability" - coming soon to a courtroom near you.

[Zabigail]

They've arrested a suspect.

[terrifel]

Just imagine how many pro-lifers will be killed in retaliation, considering how little regard the pro-choice crowd has for the sanctity of life.

[BJMoose]

AP is reporting Dr. George TIler has been murdered at his church in Wichita, Kansas. Link. He had been repeatedly hauled into court by the local prosecutor.

No further details.

It wasn't the county DA who was after him. Nola Foulston, who is a woman and a Democrat, actively avoided being drawn into the witch hunt started by a previous state Attorney General (who was given the bum's rush by voters in '06 - though his deeds lived after him: Tiller was just recently acquitted of running afoul of some of our more obscure state laws).

For anyone seriously interested in this story, here's the front page for the local paper - The Wichita Eagle .

The perp not only was anti-abortion but a member of one of those groups that fancies that the federal government has no authority over them; i.e., a real nut-job. I dread the trial of this guy. This place will be a zoo. And they may have a hard time finding fourteen people willing to serve on this jury.

They've been after Tiller for a long time. He was shot while leaving work back in '96. His clinic was bombed several years before that. It's not surprising that he was gunned down in a church - it probably was the only public place he dared go to.

[kolga]

Just imagine how many pro-lifers will be killed in retaliation, considering how little regard the pro-choice crowd has for the sanctity of life.

Name for me, please, the pro-life activists who have been murdered by pro-choice activists in the past decade over this particular issue. I'll wait.

[Tuckerfan]

Irony.

Unwed pregnant teens and twenty-somethings who attend or have graduated from private religious schools are more likely to obtain abortions than their peers from public schools, according to new sociological research.

"This research suggests that young, unmarried women are confronted with a number of social, financial and health-related factors that can make it difficult for them to act according to religious values when deciding whether to keep or abort a pregnancy," said the study's author, sociologist Amy Adamczyk, an assistant professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice and the Graduate Center, City University of New York.

The story was published today.

[Diana]

Just imagine how many pro-lifers will be killed in retaliation, considering how little regard the pro-choice crowd has for the sanctity of life.

Name for me, please, the pro-life activists who have been murdered by pro-choice activists in the past decade over this particular issue. I'll wait.

I'm pretty sure terrifel was being ironic.

[OneCentStamp]

Just imagine how many pro-lifers will be killed in retaliation, considering how little regard the pro-choice crowd has for the sanctity of life.

Name for me, please, the pro-life activists who have been murdered by pro-choice activists in the past decade over this particular issue. I'll wait.

While you're waiting, you may want to have the plumber come have a look at your sarcasm pipes, which appear to be clogged. :smile:

[Paul in Qatar]

Just by the way, I came across this quote on the Daily Dish:

"If anyone has an urge to kill someone at an abortion clinic, they should shoot me. ... It's madness. It discredits the right-to-life movement. Murder is murder. It's madness. You cannot prevent killing by killing."
- John Cardinal O'Connor.

[kolga]

I'm pretty sure terrifel was being ironic.

Oops. Sorry, terrifel.

While you're waiting, you may want to have the plumber come have a look at your sarcasm pipes, which appear to be clogged. :smile:

I'll look into that :

This hits hard for me. I worked with Dr. Warren Hern at the Boulder Abortion Clinic a number of years ago, and our office and Dr. Tiller's office interacted quite a bit, as Dr. Hern also performed late-term abortions for medical reasons.

[silenus]

I'd truly love to see O'Reilly dragged into court over this. Hell, sued penniless over it. Can't nail him criminally (damn that pesky First Amendment!) but, as OJ showed us, the standards are different in civil cases.

[Tuckerfan]

I'd truly love to see O'Reilly dragged into court over this. Hell, sued penniless over it. Can't nail him criminally (damn that pesky First Amendment!) but, as OJ showed us, the standards are different in civil cases.

The problem with suing O'Reilly is that a platoon of Fox lawyers would immediately be launched and promptly outspend those going up against O'Reilly (who'd meanwhile be screaming on his TV show [and driving up the ratings, probably] about being attacked by evil liberals, etc., etc., etc.).

Now, if someone were to quietly catch O'Reilly alone some place and beat him just enough so that he was in a lot of pain, but knew they were not intending to do him any serious or permanent injury this time, he'd probably STFU.

[BJMoose]

Tonight Keith Olbermann did the next best thing vis-a-vis O'Smelly: he really stuck it to him tonight (Rachel Maddow got in some good licks, too). You folks might want to catch the repeats tonight or the transcripts later this week.

kolga: you'll be interested in this item from Hern (from the Wichita paper cited above):

Warren Hern, a Colorado physician and close friend ot Tiller's -- who described himself now as "the only doctor in the world" who performs very-late-term abortions -- said Tiller's death was predictable.

"I think it's the inevitable consequence of more than 35 years of constant anti-abortion terrorism, harassment and violence," he said.

When Obama was elected last fall, Hern predicted that anti-abortion violence would increase, he said. Because Obama supports legalized abortion, Hern said, its foes "have lost ground. . . . They want the doctors dead, and they invite people to assassinate us. No wonder that this happens.

"I am next on the list."

[kolga]

BJMoose, there were shotgun blasts through the front windows of our clinic the month before I started working there. Daily bomb threat and death threat phone calls. Dr. Hern and the rest of us tailed by cars frequently. Vandalism, attempts at break-ins...you name it, we had it. The same "Summer of Mercy" in 1991 where Dr. Tiller's clinic was blockaded? We endured some of those same blockades - we'd have a phone tree and when one of our moles would get the word that our clinic was targeted that day, we'd all have to be in the clinic by 4 a.m. and not be able to leave until midnight. Our patients were screamed at and called vile names, or the protesters would pretend to be babies screaming in pain, and their pictures were taken without their consent. It was a never-ending battle, and I still refer to it as "my time on the front lines." I'm not surprised that Dr. Hern thinks he's next, and I believe he's right.

We also had one of our moles (they had moles in our organizations, we had moles in theirs, it was all very Spy vs. Spy) videotape one of Randall Terry's blockades of our clinic, in which he led the protesters in prayers for us. He included a statement that went something like this: "And oh great and terrible Lord, if the ones in the clinic here today do not find their way to you on their own, we pray that somehow there will be a way that they are forced to meet you."

If that's not indirectly urging murder, I'll eat my pro-choice hat.

[sublight]

Has O'Reilly made any comment about the incident yet?

[BJMoose]

Has O'Reilly made any comment about the incident yet?

He did, but I've already forgotten the details. Seems it was along the lines of "I, of course, have never said anything inciteful."

Of course.

kolga: Your comments are all-too-depressingly familiar. Just a month ago vandals hacked a hole in the roof of Tiller's place and plugged the downspouts - we were getting a lot of rain at the time. Two days later he got a death threat (though I suspect that was a regular occurance). How does anyone carry on under such conditions?


If anyone is curious, this crime will not qualify for the death penalty under Kansas law. Unless the guy decides to be a hero and take full credit for this shooting, I suspect we'll see a psych defense.

[terrifel]

Oops. Sorry, terrifel.

No apology necessary. With hindsight, it occurs to me that there are probably more than a few folks out there who might make such a goofy argument in complete sincerity. Having worked in abortion clinics, you would be more acutely aware of this than I.

I wonder if it puzzles many anti-abortion activists about why they aren't on the receiving end of more violence. If pro-life supporters can be driven to commit murder, arson, terrorism, etc., why not pro-choicers, who surely value life much less to begin with?

[Exy]

BJMoose, there were shotgun blasts through the front windows of our clinic the month before I started working there. Daily bomb threat and death threat phone calls. Dr. Hern and the rest of us tailed by cars frequently. Vandalism, attempts at break-ins...you name it, we had it. The same "Summer of Mercy" in 1991 where Dr. Tiller's clinic was blockaded? We endured some of those same blockades - we'd have a phone tree and when one of our moles would get the word that our clinic was targeted that day, we'd all have to be in the clinic by 4 a.m. and not be able to leave until midnight. Our patients were screamed at and called vile names, or the protesters would pretend to be babies screaming in pain, and their pictures were taken without their consent. It was a never-ending battle, and I still refer to it as "my time on the front lines." I'm not surprised that Dr. Hern thinks he's next, and I believe he's right.

We also had one of our moles (they had moles in our organizations, we had moles in theirs, it was all very Spy vs. Spy) videotape one of Randall Terry's blockades of our clinic, in which he led the protesters in prayers for us. He included a statement that went something like this: "And oh great and terrible Lord, if the ones in the clinic here today do not find their way to you on their own, we pray that somehow there will be a way that they are forced to meet you."

If that's not indirectly urging murder, I'll eat my pro-choice hat.

If you wanted to start a thread about your experience there, I would be very, very interested to hear more.

[Tuckerfan]

Oops. Sorry, terrifel.

No apology necessary. With hindsight, it occurs to me that there are probably more than a few folks out there who might make such a goofy argument in complete sincerity. Having worked in abortion clinics, you would be more acutely aware of this than I.

I wonder if it puzzles many anti-abortion activists about why they aren't on the receiving end of more violence. If pro-life supporters can be driven to commit murder, arson, terrorism, etc., why not pro-choicers, who surely value life much less to begin with?

They're not smart enough to grasp such things.

[kolga]

If you wanted to start a thread about your experience there, I would be very, very interested to hear more.

Gosh, I never thought about that. I know someone over on the SDMB currently works at a clinic, maybe Planned Parenthood?, and has posted about it there. My experiences were over 10 years ago, but if you think people would be interested, I could start a "Ask the former abortion clinic worker" thread. I also helped spearhead the formation of a state-wide pro-choice political coalition, so for a few years, this issue was almost literally all I did, both for work and as a volunteer.

[Exy]

Gosh, I never thought about that. I know someone over on the SDMB currently works at a clinic, maybe Planned Parenthood?, and has posted about it there. My experiences were over 10 years ago, but if you think people would be interested, I could start a "Ask the former abortion clinic worker" thread. I also helped spearhead the formation of a state-wide pro-choice political coalition, so for a few years, this issue was almost literally all I did, both for work and as a volunteer.

I am very much convinced people would be interested. I personally would love to know particularly stuff about the actual day-to-day experience of working in a clinic, although the political work is pretty interesting too.

[Zabigail]

Has O'Reilly made any comment about the incident yet?

He did, but I've already forgotten the details. Seems it was along the lines of "I, of course, have never said anything inciteful." insightful

<snip>

There, I put in the spelling O'Reilly must have meant in order for that statement to be correct...

[BJMoose]

Has O'Reilly made any comment about the incident yet?

He did, but I've already forgotten the details. Seems it was along the lines of "I, of course, have never said anything inciteful." insightful

<snip>

There, I put in the spelling O'Reilly must have meant in order for that statement to be correct...

Cute.

In fairness to Billo[sup:21xdl8f8]1[/sup:21xdl8f8], since my "quote" was actually a paraphrase, here is some of what he actually said Monday night (from the Rachel Maddow Show transcript[sup:21xdl8f8]2[/sup:21xdl8f8]):

Anarchy and vigilantism will ensure the collapse of any society. Once the rule of law breaks down, a country is finished. Thus, clear-thinking Americans should condemn the murder of late-term abortionist, Tiller. Even though the man terminated thousands of pregnancies, what he did is within Kansas law.

The 67-year-old Tiller had performed abortions for more than 35 years. “The Washington Times” estimates he destroyed about 60,000 fetuses. Very few American doctors will perform the operation. None of that seemed to matter to Tiller, nicknamed “the baby killer” by pro-life groups, who stated he was helping women—Tiller stated that.

I report honesty[sup:21xdl8f8]3[/sup:21xdl8f8]. Every single thing we said about Tiller was true. My analysis was based on those facts. It is clear that the far left is exploiting—exploiting, the death of the doctor. Those vicious individuals want to stifle any criticism of people like Tiller. That and hating FOX News is the real agenda here.

Finally if these people were so compassionate, so very compassionate, so concerned for the rights and welfare of others, maybe they might have written something, one thing, about the 60,000 fetuses who will never become American citizens.

Maddow then commented, "Mr. O‘Reilly went on to claim he never tried to incite anything, he was just reporting." Which doubtless is where I got the term inciteful.

__________
1. Sounds like a one-way street, doesn't it?
2. Yeah, I should have gotten the quote from the Fox website but I feared my computer would get cooties if I did so.
3. Yup, he said honesty, not honestly. Freudian slip?