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Thread: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

  1. #51
    Maximum Proconsul silenus's avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    7.5 games up, and the best record in baseball. Man, when we fall, it will be from a very high place!

    Of course, it helps to be playing the Mets, who seem to have "shooting themselves in the foot" down to a fine art.
    "The Turtle Moves!"

  2. #52
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by silenus
    7.5 games up, and the best record in baseball. Man, when we fall, it will be from a very high place!

    Of course, it helps to be playing the Mets, who seem to have "shooting themselves in the foot" down to a fine art.
    I truly hope that this could be the Year I can see another Yankees-Dodgers series. The history and the fact you have Torre will make it even better. I'm riding high of course on a 7 game winning streak. The Yanks are only 3˝ back now and one out of the Wild Card.

    You are right about the Mets. Last week the Mets fans were euphoric and this week they are leaping off the Triboro Bridge.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Well, my team (The Yankees) whacked the piss out of the Orioles last night...

    Oops, sorry. Old habits die hard.

    So the Yankees hit three consecutive home runs last night, then not to be outdone the Red Sox hit four in one inning to beat the Blue Jays.

    One of the four was David Ortiz's first of the year. If he keeps up his current HR pace he will end the year with 4(!).

    I don't know what Cito Gaston was thinking leaving rookie Brett Cecil in there after he gave up three home runs in that inning...did he really think he had anything left in the tank? Did he really think the kid needed to finish the inning? It was brutal to watch.

  4. #54
    Oliphaunt Rube E. Tewesday's avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Cito's got his own rhythm. He might have figured that a reliever wasn't going to win the game anyway, let's see if the kid's got the stuff to get a grip on himself and move on.

    Anyway, as a Jays fan, I'm sure not happy with the way this series is going.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    I think after giving up, what, three runs in four games (or something very like) against the ChiSox on the weekend, the Jays pitching staff were due for a bit of a blow-up. No pitching staff can maintain that kinda pace for any sustained period of time, especially when they're faced with as highly paid an offence as that of the BoSox. It is a shame to see the Jays lose to those bastards, however.

    The Padres won for a change last night and didn't need Gonzalez to hit a bomb to do it. Woo Hoo! On the other hand, it seems they have an agreement in principle to deal Jake Peavy to the White Sox for a couple kids -- Peavy just has to waive his no-trade clause. Boo-urns.

    And what about the D-Train? Dontrelle Willis owned the Rangers on the Tuesday, throwing 6 plus innings of one hit ball with no earned runs. Nice to see him back to form!
    Hell is other people.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Went to last night's Sox game - what a game! Ortiz' homer was awesome, and following it up with the double was very cool to see. Here's hoping he broke the ice and he's back to his old self again. AND looking forward to tonight's game - maybe we can sweep the Jays. I got offered a ticket for tonight, too, but can't go. I'm in baseball heaven this year with the free tickets!

  7. #57
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Who goes tonight for the Jays? I hope they can win this one.

    It is Joba Chamberlain for the Yanks against Eaton for the O's. I would love to see 9 straight and it is a good pitching match-up for it.

  8. #58
    Maximum Proconsul silenus's avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by dread pirate jimbo
    On the other hand, it seems they have an agreement in principle to deal Jake Peavy to the White Sox for a couple kids -- Peavy just has to waive his no-trade clause.
    Damn. I was hoping that the Dodgers would show an interest in Peavy. We're saving $7 million on Manny, we couldn't kick a bunch of that at Peavy? We are going to need another strong starter in the rotation before July, I know it.

    After sweeping the Mets, the Dodgers get a day off. They're going to need it, because the next 17 games are played straight through without a break.
    "The Turtle Moves!"

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Looks like the match up will be Ray vs. Lester.

    Rooting for the Jays??? Come on. I know as a Yankees fan you're sort of obligated to hate the Sox (especially the last few years), but rooting for the Jays? This is a new low for you, What Exit?. I mean, they're not even Americans, fer crissakes.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Looks like the match up will be Ray vs. Lester.

    Rooting for the Jays??? Come on. I know as a Yankees fan you're sort of obligated to hate the Sox (especially the last few years), but rooting for the Jays? This is a new low for you, What Exit?. I mean, they're not even Americans, fer crissakes.
    I'm not rooting for the Jays, I am rooting against the DreadSuxs of course.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Yeah, well, no matter how you rationalize it, you're still a commie.

  12. #62
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Looks like the match up will be Ray vs. Lester.

    Rooting for the Jays??? Come on. I know as a Yankees fan you're sort of obligated to hate the Sox (especially the last few years), but rooting for the Jays? This is a new low for you, What Exit?. I mean, they're not even Americans, fer crissakes.
    I'm not rooting for the Jays, I am rooting against the DreadSuxs of course.
    You speak the truth. I'll cheer for ANYONE over the DreadSux, even the AbootLovers from up north. Every year Bawwwston puts a team out there that looks like they should be out making big rocks into little rocks. Dirtbags!

  13. #63
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Oh, SNAP! Where the hell did you come from????

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Went to last night's Sox game - what a game! Ortiz' homer was awesome, and following it up with the double was very cool to see. Here's hoping he broke the ice and he's back to his old self again. AND looking forward to tonight's game - maybe we can sweep the Jays. I got offered a ticket for tonight, too, but can't go. I'm in baseball heaven this year with the free tickets!
    Free tickets? Free tickets? No one ever gives me free tickets. How do you score free tickets?

  15. #65
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Oh, SNAP! Where the hell did you come from????
    She great isn't she? I liked her even before I found out she shared my hatred for your team.

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph
    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Went to last night's Sox game - what a game! Ortiz' homer was awesome, and following it up with the double was very cool to see. Here's hoping he broke the ice and he's back to his old self again. AND looking forward to tonight's game - maybe we can sweep the Jays. I got offered a ticket for tonight, too, but can't go. I'm in baseball heaven this year with the free tickets!
    Free tickets? Free tickets? No one ever gives me free tickets. How do you score free tickets?
    Vendors! EMC hosted me, my boss and our security analyst in their luxury suite last Friday for the D'Rays game. Free beer, free food (hot dogs, sausages, pizza, salad, chicken fingers, etc). We drank 'em dry and I went on Viking Raids to the abutting suites for more beer.

    Last night we were in another suite on the other side of the field - 5th floor, far-right field up near the er end of the big Budweiser sign. This time, though, my boss just handed me two tickets and told me I could take a friend. The company last night is trying to earn our business for colocation of our servers and our internet connection or something (blah, blah, blah). The guy was trying to sales pitch me, and I was like "Just shut up, dude, I'm trying to watch the game. WTF??? You wanna be helpful? Go get me a Heinie, ok?"

  17. #67
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Oh, SNAP! Where the hell did you come from????
    She great isn't she? I liked her even before I found out she shared my hatred for your team.
    I guess. I thought she was kinda cute till I heard her say all those terrible things about my beloved BoSox.

  18. #68
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Oh, SNAP! Where the hell did you come from????
    She great isn't she? I liked her even before I found out she shared my hatred for your team.
    I guess. I thought she was kinda cute till I heard her say all those terrible things about my beloved BoSox.
    Terrible, what terrible things, I just saw frank honest reporting?

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Talk to the hand

  20. #70
    Oliphaunt dread pirate jimbo's avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    All good hearted people despise the Red Sox. And the goddamn Yankees. The Yankees represent everything that is evil and loathsome about professional sport. Man, watching the Yanks miss the playoffs entirely last season was so sweet -- it momentarily gave me hope for the world.
    Hell is other people.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Quote Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph
    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Went to last night's Sox game - what a game! Ortiz' homer was awesome, and following it up with the double was very cool to see. Here's hoping he broke the ice and he's back to his old self again. AND looking forward to tonight's game - maybe we can sweep the Jays. I got offered a ticket for tonight, too, but can't go. I'm in baseball heaven this year with the free tickets!
    Free tickets? Free tickets? No one ever gives me free tickets. How do you score free tickets?
    Vendors! EMC hosted me, my boss and our security analyst in their luxury suite last Friday for the D'Rays game. Free beer, free food (hot dogs, sausages, pizza, salad, chicken fingers, etc). We drank 'em dry and I went on Viking Raids to the abutting suites for more beer.

    Last night we were in another suite on the other side of the field - 5th floor, far-right field up near the er end of the big Budweiser sign. This time, though, my boss just handed me two tickets and told me I could take a friend. The company last night is trying to earn our business for colocation of our servers and our internet connection or something (blah, blah, blah). The guy was trying to sales pitch me, and I was like "Just shut up, dude, I'm trying to watch the game. WTF??? You wanna be helpful? Go get me a Heinie, ok?"
    Wow, biotech sucks. Vendors never offer us free tickets. We're lucky if we get a pizza party or something.

    The thing about Red Sox fans is they really seem to think their team/franchise is somehow different from or superior to the Yankees. Maybe before 2004 they could claim some sort of moral superiority but since then? They got the high payroll, they got the 'taint' of steroids, they've got the players with the messy personal lives, and they even finally lost the no-championship monkey off their backs.

    You guys are us, man.

  22. #72
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by dread pirate jimbo
    All good hearted people despise the Red Sox. And the goddamn Yankees. The Yankees represent everything that is evil and loathsome about professional sport. Man, watching the Yanks miss the playoffs entirely last season was so sweet -- it momentarily gave me hope for the world.
    Aboot-lovin hater.

  23. #73
    Indifferent to bacon Julie's avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Teams looking for players can probably pick up some Indians for prospects before the All-Star break. It is the sadness. I cry.

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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Oh, SNAP! Where the hell did you come from????
    She great isn't she? I liked her even before I found out she shared my hatred for your team.
    I guess. I thought she was kinda cute till I heard her say all those terrible things about my beloved BoSox.
    When I was in college I worked at this job where there was a cute guy who was dating material. We would flirt and have lunch from time to time. Luckily the company picnic came up before I agreed to go out with him because he showed up at the picnic in his Boston tshirt & hat. It hurt my heart a little, but I knew at that point that dating would be a never, ever thing ;(

    I will say one nice thing: I do like David Ortiz. He seems like a really, really nice guy. I have been giggling at his hitting problems this season, but he's still okay by me.

  25. #75
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    [quote=Sleeps w/Butterflies]
    Quote Originally posted by "dread pirate jimbo":2asl727c
    All good hearted people despise the Red Sox. And the goddamn Yankees. The Yankees represent everything that is evil and loathsome about professional sport. Man, watching the Yanks miss the playoffs entirely last season was so sweet -- it momentarily gave me hope for the world.
    Aboot-lovin hater.[/quote:2asl727c]
    Hey now. It's the losers in Ontario that say "aboot." Out here in the Canadian prairies we actually know how to pronounce words properly. So take off, eh?
    Hell is other people.

  26. #76
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph
    Wow, biotech sucks. Vendors never offer us free tickets. We're lucky if we get a pizza party or something.
    Yes, dude. Biotech sucks the donkey horn, BIG TIME.

  27. #77
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Lucifer
    Quote Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph
    Wow, biotech sucks. Vendors never offer us free tickets. We're lucky if we get a pizza party or something.
    Yes, dude. Biotech sucks the donkey horn, BIG TIME.
    Well, you don't have to rub it in.

    You're just cranky because your team is about to get knocked out of second place.

    Hey, Jim...we've got more action in the baseball thread!

  28. #78
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph
    Hey, Jim...we've got more action in the baseball thread!
    Yes we did and the Yanks won their 9th straight even after the big scare of Joba leaving the game in the first after getting hit by a ball. Moe is racking up those Saves now to. Aceves has really cemented his spot in the bullpen.

    A shame the Sox swept the Jays but at least we are only 1˝ back now. I'll be rooting for the Mets this weekend. I hope they sweep.

  29. #79
    Indifferent to bacon Julie's avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Hey, the Indians didn't get crushed into paste by Greinke. That's something, at least.

    And for the third time this year they've won two in a row! Yes, I do realize how pathetic that sounds.

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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    Yes we did and the Yanks won their 9th straight even after the big scare of Joba leaving the game in the first after getting hit by a ball. Moe is racking up those Saves now to. Aceves has really cemented his spot in the bullpen.

    A shame the Sox swept the Jays but at least we are only 1˝ back now. I'll be rooting for the Mets this weekend. I hope they sweep.
    Go Yankees, go!

    What's your opinion regarding Joba as a starter? I think he's a fantastic pitcher, but I prefer him coming in off the bench to set up Mo.

  31. #81
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    [quote=Sleeps w/Butterflies]
    Quote Originally posted by "What Exit?":2l5nyo3f
    Yes we did and the Yanks won their 9th straight even after the big scare of Joba leaving the game in the first after getting hit by a ball. Moe is racking up those Saves now to. Aceves has really cemented his spot in the bullpen.

    A shame the Sox swept the Jays but at least we are only 1˝ back now. I'll be rooting for the Mets this weekend. I hope they sweep.
    Go Yankees, go!

    What's your opinion regarding Joba as a starter? I think he's a fantastic pitcher, but I prefer him coming in off the bench to set up Mo.[/quote:2l5nyo3f]
    Joba has 4 good pitches, well actually 3 good ones and a great fastball. He can be a dominate starter and is worth far more to the team as a starter than as the setup guy. Rivera was better in 1996 as the setup guy as he honestly was a terrible starter. Once a batter saw him a second time in the game he was hittable as he had one great pitch (greatest?) and one good pitch and that was it.

    Bruney (when healthy) is a damn good setup guy, the best we've had since Nellie in my opinion, though he does seem to have an injury bug. So I would keep Joba as a starter. Now come playoff time if we have 5 starters or even 4 starters doing great, I would seriously consider moving him back to the bullpen. (I would also ensure a goodly supply of Off! )

    The other trick with the Yanks is if Phil Coke perfects the "Hard Slider" that Guidry was teaching him, he will be a very good second setup guy. We also have Melacon seasoning to be a setup guy and then maybe Rivera's replacement. His stuff is that good, that the scouts think he could be a very good closer, though obviously not Rivera.

    PRR, you are more of the hard stats analysis guy, does my logic sound, sound to you?

  32. #82
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    Joba has 4 good pitches, well actually 3 good ones and a great fastball. He can be a dominate starter and is worth far more to the team as a starter than as the setup guy. Rivera was better in 1996 as the setup guy as he honestly was a terrible starter. Once a batter saw him a second time in the game he was hittable as he had one great pitch (greatest?) and one good pitch and that was it.

    Bruney (when healthy) is a damn good setup guy, the best we've had since Nellie in my opinion, though he does seem to have an injury bug. So I would keep Joba as a starter. Now come playoff time if we have 5 starters or even 4 starters doing great, I would seriously consider moving him back to the bullpen. (I would also ensure a goodly supply of Off! )

    The other trick with the Yanks is if Phil Coke perfects the "Hard Slider" that Guidry was teaching him, he will be a very good second setup guy. We also have Melacon seasoning to be a setup guy and then maybe Rivera's replacement. His stuff is that good, that the scouts think he could be a very good closer, though obviously not Rivera.

    PRR, you are more of the hard stats analysis guy, does my logic sound, sound to you?
    I absolutely agree with you on Joba. A good starter is more valuable than a great reliever.

    However, I also believe you continue to overrate the Yankees bullpen. Bruney has never thrown more 50 innings in a season and his career ERA is 4.28. Those aren't numbers of an elite set-up man. If Coke can perfect X pitch he will be great is something you can say about 90% of pitchers out there. Learning to throw new pitches isn't easy, and rarely lead to a marketable improvment. For now Phil Coke is just the type of guy that every organization has. He has his uses, but if you become overly reliant on him you will be in trouble. Melacon is a decent enough prospect, but a Rivera replacement seems a bit much. Reliever prospects don't really have a great track record. If something goes wrong with a starter they can become a reliever, but if a reliever struggling you are pretty much out of luck.

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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by hawkeyeop
    I absolutely agree with you on Joba. A good starter is more valuable than a great reliever.

    However, I also believe you continue to overrate the Yankees bullpen. Bruney has never thrown more 50 innings in a season and his career ERA is 4.28. Those aren't numbers of an elite set-up man. If Coke can perfect X pitch he will be great is something you can say about 90% of pitchers out there. Learning to throw new pitches isn't easy, and rarely lead to a marketable improvment. For now Phil Coke is just the type of guy that every organization has. He has his uses, but if you become overly reliant on him you will be in trouble. Melacon is a decent enough prospect, but a Rivera replacement seems a bit much. Reliever prospects don't really have a great track record. If something goes wrong with a starter they can become a reliever, but if a reliever struggling you are pretty much out of luck.
    Well I can't argue with Bruney. He is only going to be a good setup guy if he can pitch the rest of the year and of course October.

    The thing with Coke is he is close, he has now gotten several vital Ks with the Hard Slider and Guidry thinks he will get it down as the year goes on. Otherwise he is a fairly serviceable lefty.

    Melacon, prospect not living up to billing, I agree, I am being too optimistic in all likelihood.

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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    Well I can't argue with Bruney. He is only going to be a good setup guy if he can pitch the rest of the year and of course October.

    The thing with Coke is he is close, he has now gotten several vital Ks with the Hard Slider and Guidry thinks he will get it down as the year goes on. Otherwise he is a fairly serviceable lefty.

    Melacon, prospect not living up to billing, I agree, I am being too optimistic in all likelihood.
    The question I've seen raised lately is why not move Hughes to the bullpen. Unlike Joba, he only two pitchers, and they don't seem committed to using him in the big league rotation.

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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by hawkeyeop
    ...

    The question I've seen raised lately is why not move Hughes to the bullpen. Unlike Joba, he only two pitchers, and they don't seem committed to using him in the big league rotation.
    This is an interesting idea, I wouldn't be surprised if they do this.

  36. #86
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by hawkeyeop
    The question I've seen raised lately is why not move Hughes to the bullpen. Unlike Joba, he only two pitchers, and they don't seem committed to using him in the big league rotation.
    I've seen this too, but I don't think they want to do it yet. They still think he has a lot of upside as a starter.

    What trades are brewing out there?

  37. #87
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Peavy nixed the trade to the White Sox, so there's still a chance the Dodgers will show some interest. I actually hope not. That would mean that our pitching staff is healthy and going the distance. But based on history, that's not too likely. Better to have an ace in the hole, and getting one from the Padres would be sweet.
    "The Turtle Moves!"

  38. #88
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Just got back from watching the Padres spank the Cubs. While the Padres were notching up their 8th in a row, the Dodgers were taking down the Angels to remain 8.5 ahead in the NLWest.
    "The Turtle Moves!"

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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Good day for the NY teams. The Jays continued their slide and the Mets beat Pappelbon (who seems to fist pump and gyrate more than Joba without the constant stupid reporting about it) as the Yanks had another big 9th inning rally to hand Lidge another loss and blown save. Funny how it was Rivera I was reading about maybe being done. Too many sports writers are morons just filling there columns.

    This all ties the Yanks with the Sox and only ˝ game behind the Jays as the Mets are only ˝ a game behind the Phillies. Hopefully both teams with today.

    CC for the Yanks vs. Hamels and Tim Redding for the Mets vs. Wakefield of Boston.

    A-Rod is only hitting for power so far since he returned but probably has had more big (clutch) hit already this year than all of last years. ( ) That was for PRR and the others that don't accept clutch.

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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    the Mets beat Pappelbon (who seems to fist pump and gyrate more than Joba without the constant stupid reporting about it) as the Yanks had another big 9th inning rally to hand Lidge another loss and blown save. Funny how it was Rivera I was reading about maybe being done. Too many sports writers are morons just filling there columns.
    Papelbon ::shudder:: He is a freaky freak. He and Youkilis (I prounounce it You-kill-us) look like they could be serial killers. Take a look at this and try to sleep tonight.

  41. #91
    Oliphaunt
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    There was just the oddest balk in the Red Sox/Mets game. The Mets' pitcher (don't remember his name but he is the 40 year old Japanese rookie lefty) lost the ball when he went back during his lineup. It just slipped out of his hand and went flying.

  42. #92
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    [quote=Sleeps w/Butterflies]
    Quote Originally posted by "What Exit?":37dwghff
    the Mets beat Pappelbon (who seems to fist pump and gyrate more than Joba without the constant stupid reporting about it) as the Yanks had another big 9th inning rally to hand Lidge another loss and blown save. Funny how it was Rivera I was reading about maybe being done. Too many sports writers are morons just filling there columns.
    Papelbon ::shudder:: He is a freaky freak. He and Youkilis (I prounounce it You-kill-us) look like they could be serial killers. Take a look at this and try to sleep tonight.[/quote:37dwghff]
    Well, he still looks friendlier than John Rocker did, but then he was a king size idiot.

  43. #93
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    [PRR, you are more of the hard stats analysis guy, does my logic sound, sound to you?
    Hard to say No to a chance to double the IP of a good young pitcher with multiple good pitches who has already demonstrated the ability to go five innings. Personally, I think the Yankees have been using the nonsense of making a reliever out of Joba just to justify keeping his IP totals down for a few years--I can't believe they really have any intention of making him into a closer. When they need a closer they will just buy one on the open market, like always.

    Sorry to chime in so late--I was away for Memorial Day.
    There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches. -- Ray Bradbury's "Coda"

  44. #94
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Red Sox are in first with Yanks in second and leading the Wild Card teams. Hughes looked great yesterday as did A-Rod.

    This brought back up something I often debated elsewhere. Teix has been incredible since A-Rod return. We old-school Neanderthals use to refer to this as Protection in the Line-Up. Now the Sabermetrics/Bill James crowd present reams of data saying that protection is not real and yet we have an incredible coincidence then of the difference for Teix since A-Rod returned.

  45. #95
    Maximum Proconsul silenus's avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    10 in a row! Go, Padres! (That is, until and unless you get within 5 games of the Dodgers, at which time I wish you nothing but flubbed grounders and dropped flies.)

    In the meantime, the Dodgers got back on track by shellacing the Rockies. Nothing like a 7 run 4th and an 8 run 7th to make you feel good on a holiday. And they did it all without a home run. I think we're over Manny.

    eta: How many people would smile a little smile if Manny was relegated to bench status when his suspension is up? After all, the Dodgers are hitting better without him than with him.
    "The Turtle Moves!"

  46. #96
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    Quote Originally posted by What Exit?
    Red Sox are in first with Yanks in second and leading the Wild Card teams. Hughes looked great yesterday as did A-Rod.

    This brought back up something I often debated elsewhere. Teix has been incredible since A-Rod return. We old-school Neanderthals use to refer to this as Protection in the Line-Up. Now the Sabermetrics/Bill James crowd present reams of data saying that protection is not real and yet we have an incredible coincidence then of the difference for Teix since A-Rod returned.
    My standing challenge still obtains, Jim: pick any two hitters in MLB NOW where one bats behind the other and therefore (as I understand your logic) protects the other, gets him better pitchers to see, makes him into a better player, etc, whatever the hell you're claiming. (Actually you can pick several pairs, which would expediate matters.) As soon as the "protector" goes on the DL, we will compare the other's offensive performance in the fifteen games on the DL the the 15 games immediately preceding them. You get to choose (in advance, of course,) your preferred measure of offensive awesomeness: SLG, OPS, OBP, RBI, RBI + R, etc.) AND you get to choose (also in advance) what constitutes a significant decline in offensive awesomeness (A 10% or more decline in OPS, a reduction in RBI + R of 5 or more, etc.)

    Since you're calling all the shots, the players, the standard of measurement, the acceptable degree of decline, you can hardly say that I'm giving you a difficult task here. (I do reserve the right to withdraw from the bet if you choose such a tiny degree of decline as to prove my point: if you choose A-Rod and Tex but you specify that Tex will decline by 4 RBI + R over 15 games if A-Rod leaves the lineup for the DL, I mnight simply claim that the figure you've chosen is so low as to be accountable to chance, and so decline to take the bet.) BTW, you also get to choose the amount that we're betting. Are we on?

    My point, of course, is that you're cherrypicking AFTER that event. Now that A-Rod (or is it Tex, for whom you're claiming protection?) has already done well, it's pretty safe to say that you detect a cause-and-effect relationship. But what you see as causal is in reality, in your words, simply an "incredible coincidence"--literally so, in that I don't believe it for a second.
    There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches. -- Ray Bradbury's "Coda"

  47. #97
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    I fail to see what is so incredible about this coincidence. Teixieria is a great but streaky player. He has put on stretches like this on the Angels, Rangers, and Braves. Do you want to explain those too?

  48. #98
    Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo What Exit?'s avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    My proposition is that Teix is benefiting from A-Rod being back. I propose a combination of less pressure on himself and that he is getting better pitches. Teix improved dramatically even when A-Rod was still hitting in the .100s. In fact A-Rod did not get over .220 until yesterday's 5 for 5 jag.

    I cannot name another pair as I don't follow any other team close enough. Would you care to suggest another pair?

    I always though Poppy and Manny complemented each other and made Poppy the beneficiary of having Manny behind him. My classic examples are the lack of protection for Bonds and the unbelievable amount of pitching around him that occurred. Mantle being moved behind Maris and the huge boost in Homer Runs that occurs and the slow down whenever Mantle went on the DL, like in September of 1961. I of course use Ruth/Gehrig pairing back by Lazzari as another great example of where sluggers had to be pitched to.

    (Small note, I mentioned in a prior thread I think, that Teix should look better once A-Rod was back and batting behind him. I will try to find that post. To me it was common sense and standard baseball logic.)

  49. #99
    Indifferent to bacon Julie's avatar
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    I watch nearly every game of the Indians.

    I was watching last night.

    But did I watch the 7 run comeback in the 9th? No. I was cleaning out a closet.

    Doomed. I am doomed.

  50. #100
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    Default Re: Baseball, 2009 - May Edition

    I propose Teixiera hot streak was due to him being a better player when months have short names. See it is May and he is hitting well, therefore I must be right. Show how your logic is better than mine and I'll listen.

    See, the problem here you are develop a hypothesis and then just stop. In order for a theory to be value it needs to tested. Sure it sounds nice that a player gets better pitches to hit when someone is "protecting them" However, an alternate theory could state that a pitcher is going to throw harder pitchers to a batter knowing the on deck batter is dangerous, since you really don't want runners on when a star comes up. Which if any theory is valid? Well, for that we need to look at evidence.

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