When does flaming deserve a warning?

[Badtz Maru]

Twice this afternoon I have been flamed outside of Thunderdome. I've reported both instances. One appears to have gone unresponded to, and I understand that not every report can be addressed immediately. In another I seem to be involved in a argument with a moderator over semantics and who precisely is being flamed.

In a thread about my children's cursing, where the consensus at the time of posting seemed to be that it is wrong that I allow my children to curse, this was posted:

I'll just respond with a quote from the ever quotable Keanu Reeves as Tod from the movie "Parenthood"

.. "You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, or drive a car. Hell, you need a license to catch a fish! But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father. "


It appears to be true!

I reported it as insults outside of the proper forum. I am the only father whose parenting skills are being discussed at that point in the thread.

I got this response in a PM.

Given the recent dust up and member response, I'm curious as to who was insulted by the reported post. It is noted to be a quote from a movie, so no one IRL was being insulted or abused, from what I can observe. I'll leave the report open for final determination by the forum moderator, but don't see anything actionable, at present. Please feel free to speak further on the topic to support your point.

This seems to be setting a standard that it is OK to flame outside of Thunderdome, as long as you don't specifically name the person you are flaming and use a movie quote to do it. I responded:

I was obviously the one who was insulted. I don't see how there could be any other interpretation of this post.

The post is saying that it is true that any father can be a "butt-reaming asshole". This is in response to a thread where my parenting skills are being questioned. There are no other fathers in the thread at that point.

If this is not flaming, would it be acceptable to someone to post, in a response about, say, a teachers experiences a movie quote that said "Any butt-reaming asshole can be a teacher"? I'm not seeing how this can be interpreted as anything other than a personal insult. Even if there were multiple fathers talking about parenting skills in the thread, it would still be applying to at least one of them, even if the poster was being obtuse as to which one he was talking about.

The response I received was:

Not true. At post #5, Oliveloaf makes a statement, and refers to the opinion of his wife.

For one thing, I don't believe anyone would read that thread and think that Oliveloaf was the person being talked about in that post. But even if that is the case, the moderator totally ignored my point that it is clearly an insult towards a poster in that thread, even if it does not specifically state which father is the butt-reaming asshole.

It feels unfair that I am trying to discuss a family issue in a reasonable way while showing respect to those who have differing opinions, and when I report someone who can't keep it civil, I have to argue semantics with someone who it seems is trying to deliberately ignore the meaning of the insult.

[danceswithcats]

No, Badtz Maru, nothing is being ignored. Because you and I have become engaged in the debate, I've recused myself from any moderation in this thread, and have left final resolution of the matter to the forum moderator. My opinion in the thread was spoken as a poster.

[pepperlandgirl]

The moderator for Jibba Jabba was not online when you reported your post. And since she hasn't responded to the reported post, or posted her opinion in The Hive or through PM, I'm guessing that she hasn't seen it yet. Perhaps this thread is premature until Caerie can get online to deal with the issue?

As for your second reported post, MsRobyn is not currently online either.

[Badtz Maru]

The moderator for Jibba Jabba was not online when you reported your post. And since she hasn't responded to the reported post, or posted her opinion in The Hive or through PM, I'm guessing that she hasn't seen it yet. Perhaps this thread is premature until Caerie can get online to deal with the issue?

As for your second reported post, MsRobyn is not currently online either.

Nothing visible about my being called a butt-reaming asshole, and the pile-on continues. Figures.

[What Exit?]

The moderator for Jibba Jabba was not online when you reported your post. And since she hasn't responded to the reported post, or posted her opinion in The Hive or through PM, I'm guessing that she hasn't seen it yet. Perhaps this thread is premature until Caerie can get online to deal with the issue?

As for your second reported post, MsRobyn is not currently online either.

Nothing visible about my being called a butt-reaming asshole, and the pile-on continues. Figures.

Have you had replies to your Reports via PM? Can you please link to the Pile-on?

[Zuul]

Nothing visible about my being called a butt-reaming asshole, and the pile-on continues. Figures.

No, nothing visible. I chose to respond through PM so as not to derail your thread and I informed you that it was being handled privately.

If there are personal insults that I have missed, please feel free to point them out and they will be dealt with.

[Sleeps w/Butterflies]

Awwwww him gots his feelers hurt and reported it. How cute!

The quote was about the fact that ANYONE (even people who aren't qualified) can be a father. Sadly, that's true. How ironic that someone who teaches his small children that bad language is an a-okay way to express themselves is so easily offended that he needs to report a post like that. Irony, thy name is badz maru. Now, run along and report this post too.

[Oliveloaf]

Awwwww him gots his feelers hurt and reported it. How cute!

The quote was about the fact that ANYONE (even people who aren't qualified) can be a father. Sadly, that's true. How ironic that someone who teaches his small children that bad language is an a-okay way to express themselves is so easily offended that he needs to report a post like that. Irony, thy name is badz maru. Now, run along and report this post too.

What manner of being is this? She does not fear the moderators!

Be she of another world? Or be she witch?

[Zuul]

Awwwww him gots his feelers hurt and reported it. How cute!

The quote was about the fact that ANYONE (even people who aren't qualified) can be a father. Sadly, that's true. How ironic that someone who teaches his small children that bad language is an a-okay way to express themselves is so easily offended that he needs to report a post like that. Irony, thy name is badz maru. Now, run along and report this post too.

[modwarn:2ng61zos]Sleeps w/Butterflies, our first rule here is "don't be a jerk." While you have avoided using blatant personal insults here, you have stepped very firmly into jerk territory with this post. You don't have to like your fellow posters here, but we do expect some level of civility outside of the Thunderdome.[/modwarn:2ng61zos]

[Sleeps w/Butterflies]

Oh please. Honestly, you people hand out more colored font snippets than any three moderators at the Dope, yet you pretend to be the alternative to the Dope's new rigid rules. That is kind of funny.

So, help me out, which part is being a jerk? Since I've stepped "very firmly into jerk territory" you should be able to tell me (in pretty highlighted colors I'm sure) what part is jerkish? The fact that I disagreed with him in a post in (ironically) The Polling Booth? Or is it that I came in here where he ran to find more moderation when his reported posts didn't get him the response (and attention since he didn't do it in PMs) that he wanted?

It *is* ironic that someone who has no problem teaching his children (small children, at that) that bad language is fine has a problem with me quoting a movie where someone uses the words "butt-reaming asshole". That is irony. Is the jerk part that I pointed out that irony?

I thought the purpose for The Thunderdome was to rake someone over the coals and use all kinds of nasty language. I had no idea that we couldn't disagree with someone outside of The Thunderdome.

Color me confused because I thought this place was supposed to be about less moderation instead of more. It seems like we have more moderators for less posters and those moderators are ready to throw their considerable weight around at every turn.

[sublight]

Disagreeing with someone is fine. You may have noticed that others in the thread were also disagreeing with Badtz (I do, too). Calling him a "butt-reaming asshole" is not the same as disagreeing, and you're being disingenuous to claim otherwise.

[Zuul]

[modhat:1fndo48p]For clarification, using an insulting movie quote calling a parent a "butt-reaming asshole" in reference to an OP about parenting, then when asked "what father were you referring to" you state you were referring to Badtz Maru, is clearly using personal insults outside of the Thunderdome. Following Badtz Maru to then mock him further is unacceptable. Disagreements happen and no one else in that thread who disagreed with the OP was told to stop. The issue was insulting him. It would have been let go as a one time thing had you not then followed him with statements such as:

Awwwww him gots his feelers hurt and reported it. How cute!

Following someone to mock him after insulting him is going beyond acceptable behavior. Keep it to the Thunderdome. That's all we ask.[/modhat:1fndo48p]

[What Exit?]

Oh please. Honestly, you people hand out more colored font snippets than any three moderators at the Dope, yet you pretend to be the alternative to the Dope's new rigid rules. That is kind of funny.

So, help me out, which part is being a jerk? Since I've stepped "very firmly into jerk territory" you should be able to tell me (in pretty highlighted colors I'm sure) what part is jerkish? The fact that I disagreed with him in a post in (ironically) The Polling Booth? Or is it that I came in here where he ran to find more moderation when his reported posts didn't get him the response (and attention since he didn't do it in PMs) that he wanted?

It *is* ironic that someone who has no problem teaching his children (small children, at that) that bad language is fine has a problem with me quoting a movie where someone uses the words "butt-reaming asshole". That is irony. Is the jerk part that I pointed out that irony?

I thought the purpose for The Thunderdome was to rake someone over the coals and use all kinds of nasty language. I had no idea that we couldn't disagree with someone outside of The Thunderdome.

Color me confused because I thought this place was supposed to be about less moderation instead of more. It seems like we have more moderators for less posters and those moderators are ready to throw their considerable weight around at every turn.

Personally I did not think the movie quote use was an insult but following him here to insult him did cross the line. Please take him to the Dome, I might even join you but don't bother him in the other forums.

[Winston Smith]

Awwwww him gots his feelers hurt and reported it. How cute!

The quote was about the fact that ANYONE (even people who aren't qualified) can be a father. Sadly, that's true. How ironic that someone who teaches his small children that bad language is an a-okay way to express themselves is so easily offended that he needs to report a post like that. Irony, thy name is badz maru. Now, run along and report this post too.

What manner of being is this? She does not fear the moderators!

Be she of another world? Or be she witch?

Nobody's going to bitch-slap Oliveloaf for calling SwB a witch?

Please, somebody explain this to me. FWIW, I don't think SwB should have received a warning in the first place, and Oliveloaf's comments (though not as harsh) are delivered in a similar context.

[Zuul]

SwB was not given a warning for the initial post in Jibba Jabba. I PMed her to ask her to take personal insults to the Thunderdome. She was given a warning for continuing to taunt Badtz Maru outside of the appropriate forum. Are we allowing posters to follow one another from forum to forum, mocking one another? The blind eye that was turned to this sort of behavior on the Dope on several occasions was one of the things that was discussed at length on this board during its early days, and it was generally agreed we did not want to allow it here.

Oliveloaf's post is in an entirely different world.

[Winston Smith]

Just so there's no mistaking my motives here, please understand I'm playing Devil's Advocate. I'm not trying to piss in your corn flakes. This is my idea of transparency in moderation.

Oliveloaf's post may or may not be in an entirely different world, but that's entirely subjective. It's possible that SwB had been deeply offended at being called a witch. +, not only is Oliveloaf insulting Swb outside of the TDome, but he's also sort of mobbing her - she's down and he's giving her a kick.

It sounds like you're following Swb around looking for a reason to mod her. And the way I understood it, we were trying to prevent favoritism towards posters. This would be an example of the opposite of that, which certainly was not out corporate mission here.

Are we allowing posters to follow one another from forum to forum, mocking one another?

That's a loaded question. But if I were forced to answer, I would say "Yes".

[What Exit?]

SwB was not given a warning for the initial post in Jibba Jabba. I PMed her to ask her to take personal insults to the Thunderdome. She was given a warning for continuing to taunt Badtz Maru outside of the appropriate forum. Are we allowing posters to follow one another from forum to forum, mocking one another? The blind eye that was turned to this sort of behavior on the Dope on several occasions was one of the things that was discussed at length on this board during its early days, and it was generally agreed we did not want to allow it here.

Oliveloaf's post is in an entirely different world.

I have to agree. I don't think the first post by Sleeps w/Butterflies or Oliveloaf are anything but jokes. The following and mocking him here crossed the line.

[Zuul]

Frankly, I never really noticed her before the reported post in Jibba Jabba. Is she typically snarky? Funny? Offbeat? No idea. All I know is what I've seen in the past few days. If we've interacted much before, I can't remember it.

If I was following her looking for an excuse to warn her, I did an amazing job of it, by being in this thread before her. Should such a thing happen again, I'd be happy to leave it to the other mods, so it doesn't appear I'm looking for an excuse to warn her. If you want to look back in the Hive thread, I was fairly open about not being happy that I had to deal with the original insult. It was pretty much the opposite of wanting to go after her.

[Winston Smith]

OK, there's too many threads for me to read them all. If I read this wrong, my sincere appy-polly-loggies.

[Zuul]

OK, there's too many threads for me to read them all. If I read this wrong, my sincere appy-polly-loggies.

No apology necessary. I have no problem explaining my reasoning. If why a certain action has been taken isn't obvious, it should be explained. If it does appear that I was looking for a reason to moderate, though, I really would be fine stepping out of the way and letting someone else handle any further issues here. I don't want people to think we're playing favorites/singling people out.

[featherlou]

My opinions (for what they're worth) - the original problem of using a movie quote to insult another poster outside of the Thunderdome deserved a warning. Saying that wasn't a direct insult to Badtz Maru is like kids who stick their finger an inch from the other kid's face and say, "Not touching! Can't tell on me!" It was an insult, and it was directed at Badtz Maru; it broke the rule of attack the post, not the poster.

Starting this thread here was sort of tattling to teacher too, however. If someone's insulting you, take them to the Thunderdome, don't start whiny threads in ADF. If we want fewer rules and less moderation, we need to fight our own battles.

[Sarahfeena]

I could be crazy, but I'm pretty sure Oliveloaf's post was meant more as a compliment of SWB than an insult.

[Malaky]

Yeah I took too his whole comment as praising SWB.

[McNutty]

Saying that wasn't a direct insult to Badtz Maru is like kids who stick their finger an inch from the other kid's face and say, "Not touching! Can't tell on me!" It was an insult, and it was directed at Badtz Maru; it broke the rule of attack the post, not the poster.

I agree with this, but I'm curious if one particular aspect of the exchange got overlooked by some people:

[quote=Sleeps w/Butterflies]

Which father were you referring to with the "butt-reaming asshole" comment

You
[/quote:1iqq2z4k]

Even if people think using a movie quote in the way she originally did is technically ok, how is this part not a direct personal insult?