Star Trek (2009) There be Open Spoilers Here, Beware.

[Myglaren]

God forbid that people might like a movie because, you know, it's an entertaining way to spend a couple of hours.

Good call Crusoe. It can all become a bit too intense sometimes.

I never go to the cinema and by the time they work their way round to terrestrial TV all the shouting has died down.

I think that often our expectations can exceed the filmmaker's abilities.

Most of the stuff I watch can be quite ancient and predominantly French therefore avoids all the hype and much of the criticism that 'blockbusters' seems to attract.

[Baldwin]

Moreover, the people who like this movie seem to like it in direct proportion to their knowledge or expectations of plot logic, canon concepts and the like.

I think you're saying the opposite of what you meant. Did you mean to say "inverse proportion"?

In which case, I think you're mistaken about the knowledge part, but correct about the expectations part.

[Baldwin]

But since the creative team so extensively (reportedly) consulted the astrophysics community on the science, why did they feel the need to pull "red matter" from their bums? There exist real world substances which might actually do the job: massive glueballs or quark/gluon plasma.

That's amazing; apparently they didn't get the concepts of "mass", "gravity", "event horizon", "magnetic field" and all that. (I could have sworn there was a reference to "the magnetic field created by Saturn's rings".) But, again, what did we really expect? In any version of Star Trek, every time they get something scientifically right, I want to praise them. "Good for you, fella!"

ETA: The Bad Astronomer enjoyed it.

[Erguotou]

I went to see the movie last night. I've been a Star Trek fan since I was a kid, when TOS was on NBC. Here's my 2 cents, FWIW.

I don't understand why there is a big argument about canon/non-canon and how all this stuff trashes everything that came before it. It's clear to me that this is a completely different timeline created at the time of the destruction of Romulus.

The interaction between the characters was spot on, and I liked all the characterizations. I enjoyed the subtle and not-so-subtle allusions to TOS memes. I didn't mind the plot holes or the superhuman physical stunts because it's a movie and I've never been the type of Trek geek who tries endlessly to parse, retcon, explain, or overanalyze a work of fiction.

Overall, it was a lot of fun - we had a great time, even my daughter who has always considered Star Trek "stupid." I liked this movie somewhat better than TNG, a lot better than DS9, and infinitely better than Voyager or that crawling sack of shit Enterprise.

I look forward to sequels.

[beebs]

Short answer: awesome flick.

Did anyone else notice that the monster on the ice planet looked bizarrely similar to the "cloverfield" monster? Abrams is recycling! It's time to think green.

I did like the miniskirts however.

QFT*


*I promise never to use that expression again.

[Crusoe]

Slusho also got a mention in the film.

[Baldwin]

Slusho also got a mention in the film.

Ah -- I was thought that sounded familiar when I heard it in the movie, but didn't put it together.

[maggenpye]

Slusho?

Uhura's first name?

Please?

[Baldwin]

Slusho?

Uhura's first name?

Please?

Slusho is a fictional beverage associated in some way with the Cloverfield movie (or rather with the viral Internet marketing for the movie).

Uhura's first name is Nyota.

[Walker in Eternity]

I went to see this on Sunday with my family and we all loved it.

It freely admitted to taking place in an alternate timeline, therefore the purists can't argue that it is rebooting the original 'cause it isn't.

I loved the story, the pacing and most of the characters. As the timeline actually diverged 25 years before when the Kelvin was destroyed this means that Spock and Pike did not have the same history as TOS, but that is irrelevant. Captain Pike was excellent and I thought his support of Kirk was a great touch.

Kirk's rebellious youth was fantastic, it made sense. Wrecking his stepdad's car, excellent.

McCoy was well acted, and to a non American the accent sounded pretty convincing.

The only character that failed to convince me was Simon Pegg as Scotty. The accent was passable, but character wise he was nothing like Scotty, far too geeky. He reminded me more of the geeky russian in Goldeneye.

According to the good old interweb it looks like the main actors have all signed up for at least two sequels. I shall wait impatiently for these to be made.

Quite simply, the best Star Trek in years, if not ever. This is what Roddenberry must have meant when he said he hoped someone else would remake it (or words to that effect).

[Skald the Rhymer]

IKirk's rebellious youth was fantastic, it made sense. Wrecking his stepdad's car, excellent.

I'll admit to being confused here. How is his stealing the antique car (I don't think it's ever said that the owner is his stepdad--it could as easily have been an uncle)--"excellent"?

[WhyNot]

[quote=Skald the Rhymer]

IKirk's rebellious youth was fantastic, it made sense. Wrecking his stepdad's car, excellent.

I'll admit to being confused here. How is his stealing the antique car (I don't think it's ever said that the owner is his stepdad--it could as easily have been an uncle)--"excellent"?[/quote:ufmmv8nt]
Pbbbbbt. 'Cause it was a rawking scene with The Beastie Boys and fast cars and audacity and hope.

And rebellion. Can't forget the rebellion.

(And yes, it was his stepfather's. I think it was said in the phone call.)

[Walker in Eternity]

What WhyNot said.

[Baldwin]

[quote=WhyNot]

IKirk's rebellious youth was fantastic, it made sense. Wrecking his stepdad's car, excellent.

I'll admit to being confused here. How is his stealing the antique car (I don't think it's ever said that the owner is his stepdad--it could as easily have been an uncle)--"excellent"?

Pbbbbbt. 'Cause it was a rawking scene with The Beastie Boys and fast cars and audacity and hope.

And rebellion. Can't forget the rebellion.

(And yes, it was his stepfather's. I think it was said in the phone call.)[/quote:1o5m3ecn]
And blatant product placement. (So apparently Nokea survives the Eugenics War and the near-collapse of human civilization.)

[Skald the Rhymer]

[quote=WhyNot]

IKirk's rebellious youth was fantastic, it made sense. Wrecking his stepdad's car, excellent.

I'll admit to being confused here. How is his stealing the antique car (I don't think it's ever said that the owner is his stepdad--it could as easily have been an uncle)--"excellent"?

Pbbbbbt. 'Cause it was a rawking scene with The Beastie Boys and fast cars and audacity and hope.

And rebellion. Can't forget the rebellion.

(And yes, it was his stepfather's. I think it was said in the phone call.)[/quote:2o12a4i7]


As I have mentioned elsewhere (possibly on the Dope), I honestly didn't recognize the Beastie Boys. I'm a very special sort of nerd. I thought it was just some 23rd century music and was glad that I'll be dead by then.

I'll take your word on the "audacity" and "rebellion," though it struck me as more "assholery" and "haplessness." But the rebellion, if such it was, seemed entirely motiveless. We had no reason to think that Stepfather was abusive or callous or cold or had done anything to deserve having his car stolen and wrecked for no damn reason. That was the point that the movie started to go off the rails for me. (Does that mean I'm old?)

Mama Kirk was very pretty, though. I will say that. When first I saw her I thought she was played by whoever plays Cameron on House. I'd look it up except for my laziness.

ETA: Laziness wore off for a brief moment; it must be Tuesday or something. It WAS Jennifer Morrison.

[Baldwin]

Will there really come a time when teenagers show rebellion by listening to 250-year-old music? No man can say.

[levdrakon]

Did I miss something, or did they create a singularity inside Earth's solar system? And then fly away?Or did ejecting the core whatchamathingees cause an explosion that closed it?

It seems to me your black hole is only going to get as "big", mass-wise, as whatever you feed it. It may have temporarily exerted more gravity than they thought (who knows how red matter works), but with only the mining ship to eat, the hole would have ended up microscopic, probably. Then it would harmlessly evaporate with no more matter to consume. Who knows? They could probably build a shell around it and stick it in a museum.

[Tuckerfan]

Having seen this via "alternative distribution" channels, I have a few questions:

1.) What exactly did Nero do for 25 years while he waited for Spock to show up? And how did he know it was going to be 25 years?

2.) If you show up 182 years before a supernova (which "threatens the galaxy," but somehow only manages to wipe out one inhabited planet), why wouldn't you go back to Romulus (I guess no one really gives a shit about Remus, which explains why that guy in Nemesis was so pissed off all the time.), warn them, and give them your superior technology?

3.) Didn't anyone on Nero's ship think that there was something a bit odd about the Kelvin when they first spotted it? What they did, was the same as if a modern military ship (given the militant nature of the Romulans, I think its safe to assume that even their mining vessels were military type vehicles) spotted a sailing vessel from 1822 and didn't clue into the fact that things were a bit "odd."

4.) Why did it take them so long to blow up the Kelvin and why didn't they go after the escape shuttles? To go back to the modern ship vs the sailing ship, for a moment, they demasted the Kelvin, and then when they decided to destroy it, instead of using the heavy guns, they broke out the small arms, and ignored the guys fleeing in the lifeboats.

5.) And WTF was the Federation doing in the 25 years since a mysterious Romulan ship showed up, blew the crap out of one of their ships and then promptly disappeared? Uh, hello, as far as stupid things go, that's right up there with nailing your testicles to the floor.

6.) If the "red matter" can be shot out into space to make a black hole, why did Nero feel the need to drill a hole down to Vulcan's core to create a black hole?

7.) If Vulcan was turned into a black hole, how far would Hoth, or whatever the planet Old Spock was marooned on, have to be from it to not get sucked in, or be wiped about by the radiation?

8.) Did they put Bobby Jindal in charge of stellar objects monitoring? Because I find it hard to believe that the Romulans or the Federation could be so caught off guard by a supernova (especially one that was going to "threaten the galaxy") that they'd misjudge things to the point where Spock shows up late. He get caught in crosstown traffic or something?

9.) Weren't Orion Slave girls just good for nookie?

10.) Did Spock drop a decimal point when he was programming Scotty's coordinates to beam them onto the Enterprise?

11.) Why were the "people mover tubes" from Futurama in the Enterprise, anyway?

12.) Why'd Nero go after the Klingons?

13.) Why worry about hitting the Earth with a black hole, when sucking up Sol with a black hole would work just as well at wiping humanity out? (Well, at least rendering the Earth uninhabitable.)

14.) Why was "screw the rules" Kirk, so obsessed with documenting Spock's jettisoning him from the Enterprise? Yeah, yeah, he got shafted, we know, but given his arrogance, you'd figure he'd not bother documenting things, figuring that he could just show up at a tribunal and say, "The pointy eared bastard screwed me!" and win them over.

15.) WTF is it with the Trekverse and the whole "beloved wife" business? This is at least the second time they've used it one of the movies, and it was probably in a couple of the episodes of the various series as well.

16.) Why would only one guy, on a super critical away mission, have the charges?

17.) Is Nero's ship not equipped with sensors that can resolve 3 humans space jumping from a shuttle?

18.) Was Pike being waterboarded, or did Nero just like walking around in a wet ship?

19.) Did somebody not work on voice recognition system software in all the years since the 21st Century? You'd think by then they'd have figured out how to deal with accents by the 23rd.

20.) Why did Scotty have a sidekick that looked like the reptillian cousin of the guy helping Lando fly the Falcon in RotJ?

[Tuckerfan]

Did I miss something, or did they create a singularity inside Earth's solar system? And then fly away?Or did ejecting the core whatchamathingees cause an explosion that closed it?

It seems to me your black hole is only going to get as "big", mass-wise, as whatever you feed it. It may have temporarily exerted more gravity than they thought (who knows how red matter works), but with only the mining ship to eat, the hole would have ended up microscopic, probably. Then it would harmlessly evaporate with no more matter to consume. Who knows? They could probably build a shell around it and stick it in a museum.

The problem with that explaination is that you're then left with where Spock is going to get the matter to create one to suck in all that radiation from the supernova.

[WhyNot]

(Does that mean I'm old?)

Yes.

Pbbbbbt.

[Skald the Rhymer]

(Does that mean I'm old?)

Yes.

Pbbbbbt.

Just because I'm not trying to conquer the Earth anymore doesn't mean I can't take my revenge for such arrogant arrantry.

Of course, I don't do violence to women, so I'll have to find a scapegoat.

[Baldwin]

Having seen this via "alternative distribution" channels, I have a few questions:

1.) What exactly did Nero do for 25 years while he waited for Spock to show up? And how did he know it was going to be 25 years?

That's a good question, young man.

2.) If you show up 182 years before a supernova (which "threatens the galaxy," but somehow only manages to wipe out one inhabited planet), why wouldn't you go back to Romulus (I guess no one really gives a shit about Remus, which explains why that guy in Nemesis was so pissed off all the time.), warn them, and give them your superior technology?

When Nero asks Pike what the stardate is, and confirms that he's traveled into the past, you'd think that his reaction would be, "Gosh, that's super! Romulus hasn't been destroyed yet, and with the foreknowledge we have (being from the future and all), we can make sure it's saved. I'm very happy!"

6.) If the "red matter" can be shot out into space to make a black hole, why did Nero feel the need to drill a hole down to Vulcan's core to create a black hole?

Well, he already had a giant mining phaser, or whatever that thing is. Maybe he just gets a kick out of using one impossible bit of technology in conjunction with another impossible bit of technology.

7.) If Vulcan was turned into a black hole, how far would Hoth, or whatever the planet Old Spock was marooned on, have to be from it to not get sucked in, or be wiped about by the radiation?

Well, in order for Spock to have such a good view of the destruction of Vulcan, the icy planet (Delta Vega) would really have to be a moon of Vulcan (or sister planet). Don't ask me why it's never been mentioned before.

Now, if Vulcan is suddenly turned into a black hole, Delta Vega should continue orbiting it just like before. Vulcan would have no larger gravity well than it had before; you'd just want to be sure not to get too close to the marble-sized black hole it'd become.

Radiation, as you mention, is another matter. A planet being sucked into a black hole at its core should produce a fantastic amount of x-ray and other electromagnetic radiation as it's being torn apart down to its atoms.

11.) Why were the "people mover tubes" from Futurama in the Enterprise, anyway?

The tubes were labeled "Inert Reactant", but that sequence was silly. (The Engineering section seemed to me like it'd be too big to fit in the ship.)

Yep, plenty of plot holes.

[xenophon41]

The tubes were labeled "Inert Reactant", but that sequence was silly. (The Engineering section seemed to me like it'd be too big to fit in the ship.)

Yep, plenty of plot holes.

"Inert Reactant," really? I missed that detail.


Were the Oxymoron Tubes a precursor to Jeffries tubes?

[Vox Imperatoris]

You know, the extremes to which people either love or hate this movie (there doesn't seem to be anyone who was lukewarm about it or feels mildly about it one way or the other) reminds me an awful lot of the days after [del:1w5uteop]Retard[/del:1w5uteop] Revenge of the Sith. You either loved it, or hated it, and as time went by, more and more people seemed to hate it (by this I mean that people who rewatched the film discovered that they didn't like it).

I'll be this guy. It was a fairly enjoyable movie, but it wasn't great. I thought it did a good job of recapturing the original series's feel, but they could have done a lot more with it, given that they created an alternate timeline where you don't know what happens—who lives and who dies. What's the point of that if you're not going to change anything except character background details? They create an alternate reality and everyone ends up on the same ship? I'll admit the Spock/Uhura thing is more than a minor change, but that was pretty much it for the major characters. (Let's face it—blowing up Vulcan is just a background detail, showing they want to be all shocking but are afraid to really shake the main characters up.)

[Baldwin]

The tubes were labeled "Inert Reactant", but that sequence was silly. (The Engineering section seemed to me like it'd be too big to fit in the ship.)

Yep, plenty of plot holes.

"Inert Reactant," really? I missed that detail.


Were the Oxymoron Tubes a precursor to Jeffries tubes?

I think that's what it said. Whatever it was, it obviously wasn't toxic, or too hot or cold for Scotty to survive. Though he might have got washed down into the bilge.

[Tuckerfan]

One other question: If the "lightning storm" in space was caused by the Romulan ship popping out of the black hole, then why did one appear when it materialized around Vulcan?

Here's a review that points out some other issues with the film.

[Dangerously Unqualified]

Did I miss something, or did they create a singularity inside Earth's solar system? And then fly away?Or did ejecting the core whatchamathingees cause an explosion that closed it?

Didn't Spock go into warp speed after escaping the mining ship, with the mining ship in hot pursuit? When they dropped out of warp and the battle ensued the Vulcan Tilt-a-Whirl was saved by the Enterprise popping into existance with guns blareing.

My impression was that the black hole and the nova created by ejecting the warp core into it were in the middle of nowhere.

[cerberus]

Having read the review a few posts up, I am more certain of my earlier impression - if the "re-booted franchise" is indeed to be in the fun-fun-fun mode, let's just dispense with the formalities and let Michael Bay have the sequels.

[Walker in Eternity]

And rebellion. Can't forget the rebellion.

(And yes, it was his stepfather's. I think it was said in the phone call.)

And blatant product placement. (So apparently Nokea survives the Eugenics War and the near-collapse of human civilization.)[/quote]

I was waiting to see a Windows OS on the Enterprise, but didn't. It would have made sense given the amount of time it used to spend breaking down.

I'm no fan of the Beastie Boys, but I think it was just used to make a point. I'm a bit old for revellion ow myself, but had plenty of isseus as a youth and remember rebelling against everything I could. As a step-parent myself I am now on the receiving end of some teenage rebellion. Just hope she doesn't steal our car (although it's not a classic and we don't live near a canyon).

Tuckerfan, you raise a lot of intersting points that I had not previously thought of. But when did the Star Trek Universe ever follow the laws of physics? We have FTL travel, teleportation and time travel all in one film, not to mention "red matter" and black holes.

I wonder if the idea of "red matter" is based upon the red mercury rumour a few years ago about a material capable of enhancing the effects of nuclear explosions. Not a grain of truth in it as far as I can tell, but when did that stop sci-fi writers?

[Baldwin]

Having read the review a few posts up, I am more certain of my earlier impression - if the "re-booted franchise" is indeed to be in the fun-fun-fun mode, let's just dispense with the formalities and let Michael Bay have the sequels.

One problem with that is that Michael Bay is a terrible director with the mind of a child, and doesn't know how to handle an action scene.

Robert Rodriguez would be interesting -- as long as there's a good script.

[Tuckerfan]

Tuckerfan, you raise a lot of intersting points that I had not previously thought of. But when did the Star Trek Universe ever follow the laws of physics? We have FTL travel, teleportation and time travel all in one film, not to mention "red matter" and black holes.

I forget the exact phrasing, and which of the "big league" science fiction writers who said it, but there's an old expression which says that in science fiction the writer can get a "pass" on a limited amount of hand waving away the laws of physics, and once you cross that threshold, your story falls apart.

I'll note that black holes do exist, some experts theorize that under the right conditions, one could use them for time travel, others have said that FTL, and specifically warp drive is, in fact, possible, and, to be honest, I haven't really bought some of the arguments against teleportation that I've heard. (Namely the whole business about it not working because you'll never be able to get this or that particle in the exact spot it was in before. I really don't think it matters one whit if one of the atoms that made up an ear cell winds up in a toe cell, just that you finish with the same number of atoms you started with, and that you don't recombine them in such a way that they form different compounds than would be normally found in the human body.)

I can buy that there would be something like red matter, which magically allows you to create a black hole, I can't buy that this red matter would allow you to ignore the massive amounts of radiation black holes emit. Just like I could buy a giant gorilla in King Kong, but I couldn't buy a guy who'd never fired a gun being able to use a machine gun to shoot giant grasshoppers off of people without hurting anyone.

[Walker in Eternity]

I'll note that black holes do exist, some experts theorize that under the right conditions, one could use them for time travel,

True they exist (or are at least very likely too), but IIRC according to general relativity time travel is only possible in a very limited fashion and then only in the vicinity of the hole. Although for the purposes of Star Trek I'm willing to suspend my disbelief.

others have said that FTL, and specifically warp drive is, in fact, possible, and, to be honest, I haven't really bought some of the arguments against teleportation that I've heard. (Namely the whole business about it not working because you'll never be able to get this or that particle in the exact spot it was in before. I really don't think it matters one whit if one of the atoms that made up an ear cell winds up in a toe cell, just that you finish with the same number of atoms you started with, and that you don't recombine them in such a way that they form different compounds than would be normally found in the human body.)

I think my big problem with teleportation is not the fact of whether it is possible, because it is technically feasible and atoms have been teleported, the problem is the sheer amount of energy and computational power required to teleport a human body. But once again being Trek I'll grant that by the 23rd C they have found a way around this (hopefully without such TNG bullshit as Heisenberg compensators and the like).

I can buy that there would be something like red matter, which magically allows you to create a black hole, I can't buy that this red matter would allow you to ignore the massive amounts of radiation black holes emit. Just like I could buy a giant gorilla in King Kong, but I couldn't buy a guy who'd never fired a gun being able to use a machine gun to shoot giant grasshoppers off of people without hurting anyone.

Yes, the radiation would be a problem, but I can accept the idea of red matter, even to the extent of postulating that "red matter" is the long sought negative energy material capable of holding open the mouth of a wormhole to prevent collapse or to allow travel through a blackhole.

I am not sure how much hard radiation would be produced by the collapse of a planet sized object, assuming the energy was released as x-rays the atmosphere might stop a large amount as even now the majority of x-ray detectors are space based due to the attentuating effect of the atmospshere.

Will see if I can come up with some figures either way.

The thing that puzzles me is that as someone mentioned the ice planet would have to be a moon of Vulcan to give that good a view of the catastrophe, but why would it be icy? It is in the same region of the habitable zone of the sun as Vulcan and receives the same amount of solar radiation and so should be in a similar temperature range to Vulcan. Unless it was frozen only recently perhaps. Do any hardcore Trekkers (trekkies) know if Vulan actually had a moon in TOS? Is it based on the books by Josepha Sherman?

As to what Nero was up to for 25 years, I hope that will be explained either in the novelisation by Alan Dean Foster or in the Star Trek: Countdown graphic novel.

[Eleanor of Aquitaine]

[quote=Dangerously Unqualified]

Did I miss something, or did they create a singularity inside Earth's solar system? And then fly away?Or did ejecting the core whatchamathingees cause an explosion that closed it?

Didn't Spock go into warp speed after escaping the mining ship, with the mining ship in hot pursuit? When they dropped out of warp and the battle ensued the Vulcan Tilt-a-Whirl was saved by the Enterprise popping into existance with guns blareing.

My impression was that the black hole and the nova created by ejecting the warp core into it were in the middle of nowhere.[/quote:229d0s3w]Ok, good!

As dumb as the plot was, I'm looking forward to seeing the movie again. But I'll wait for it on DVD.

[OneCentStamp]

Robert Rodriguez would be interesting -- as long as there's a good script.

And no 3-D glasses. Has there ever been a more hot-and-cold director in movie history?

[BwanaBob]

...
The thing that puzzles me is that as someone mentioned the ice planet would have to be a moon of Vulcan to give that good a view of the catastrophe, but why would it be icy? It is in the same region of the habitable zone of the sun as Vulcan and receives the same amount of solar radiation and so should be in a similar temperature range to Vulcan. Unless it was frozen only recently perhaps. Do any hardcore Trekkers (trekkies) know if Vulan actually had a moon in TOS? Is it based on the books by Josepha Sherman?

As to what Nero was up to for 25 years, I hope that will be explained either in the novelisation by Alan Dean Foster or in the Star Trek: Countdown graphic novel.

I believe this is one of the nitpicks - in the "classic" series, Vulcan had no moon. I doubt Nero altering the time-line would somehow create a moon.
The graphic novel explains events leading up to Nero and old Spock going into the black-holes that lead to the altering of the time-line.

[Baldwin]

I believe this is one of the nitpicks - in the "classic" series, Vulcan had no moon. I doubt Nero altering the time-line would somehow create a moon.
The graphic novel explains events leading up to Nero and old Spock going into the black-holes that lead to the altering of the time-line.

I remember that now -- in one of the TOS episodes, it was mentioned that Vulcan has no moon. Huh. Though I don't think they really thought about it with this movie. (Would have been so easy to write that scene a little differently.)

Though, there's nothing wrong with the planet being ice-covered. Earth has been an iceball for millions of years, several times in the past. Within a given habitable orbit, there are many variations in climate possible, depending on atmospheric makeup, etc.

[The Logos]

2.) If you show up 182 years before a supernova (which "threatens the galaxy," but somehow only manages to wipe out one inhabited planet), why wouldn't you go back to Romulus (I guess no one really gives a shit about Remus, which explains why that guy in Nemesis was so pissed off all the time.), warn them, and give them your superior technology?

I prefer to interpret "threatening the galaxy" metaphorically as "threatening the political stability/balance of power of the galaxy. It would allow us to assume the star which went supernova was in fact the Romulan sun, and would account for Romulus' spectacular destruction. As for Nero's motivation, rational beings such as ourselves would see being displaced in time as an opportunity to avert disaster; I am willing to suspend disbelief on the grounds Nero was no longer a rational being.

6.) If the "red matter" can be shot out into space to make a black hole, why did Nero feel the need to drill a hole down to Vulcan's core to create a black hole?

Judging from the movie, it appeared the "red matter" required some sort of projectile/delivery system. Why that delivery system could not have been detonated from the surface I dunno. Perhaps they were going for a symmetric spaghettification of the planet, or wanted the singularity in rough gravitational balance with the planet's gravity.

13.) Why worry about hitting the Earth with a black hole, when sucking up Sol with a black hole would work just as well at wiping humanity out? (Well, at least rendering the Earth uninhabitable.)

I think that was the point, to obliterate the human population. To destroy Sol would have given Earth's civilization time to evacuate. Besides, the Sun, being plasma, is a less plausible target for the mining phaser than a terrestrial surface.

I think that's what it said. Whatever it was, it obviously wasn't toxic, or too hot or cold for Scotty to survive. Though he might have got washed down into the bilge.

If I remember correctly, the exposition in that scene identified the machinery as a water processing plant.

As to what Nero was up to for 25 years, I hope that will be explained either in the novelisation by Alan Dean Foster or in the Star Trek: Countdown graphic novel.

Unfortunately, the Countdown graphic novel doesn't expose Nero's or the Narada's activities in those 25 years; perhaps the novelization of Star Trek will elucidate this. The graphic novel does, however, bring more depth to Nero's backstory, the relationship between Nero and Spock, and how it is the mining ship Narada is the way it is.

As to why the Narada engaged a Klingon fleet, my understanding is this subplot was stripped from the film. I'm hoping the director's edition will replace these scenes.

[dread pirate jimbo]

Saw the movie yesterday and loved it. I thought the characterizastions were great and the action sequences were super cool. The interplay between the main characters was wonderful. And I quite liked the idea of rebooting the franchise by throwing most of the canon out the window and starting with a brand new universe, permanently changed by the time travel sequence at the start.

Yes, the physics was faulty at best, but I don't think anyone has ever accused Star Trek of obsessing over scientific plausibility -- they have never let silly things like the real world get in the way of telling their story, so why start now? And yes, the notion of Kirk getting promoted to Captain from Cadet Under Review For Cheating is utterly laughable (I had kinda hoped the show would wrap with Pike still in charge and Kirk being assigned a role as his executive officer or something, which would be resolved in the next film with Kirk taking over at that point). But come on people, it's a fucking Star Trek movie! If you're deconstructing every little detail, you're working waaaaaaay too hard, IMO.

Things I really liked: Chris Pine's read of the Kirk character. As a huge Shatner fan, I was nervous about this portrayal, but I think he did a fine job with the role, although Kirk got beat up a little too frequently for my taste. I found the rest of the cast's work also quite entertaining and particularly liked Ben Cross as Sarek. The scene where Enterprise shows up at Vulcan and has to navigate through the debris field of destoryed Federation ships was also pretty darn sweet. And Vulcan imploding looked awesome. Kirk banging an Orion slave girl/cadet was a wonderful nod to his TOS doggishness. Young Spock taking Kirk out with the neck pinch, and looking kinda bored while doing it, was also a great touch.

I still don't like the look of the new Enterprise, particularly the nacelles, which are pinched too close together and should have RED glowing shit in the nose, not blue. And Nero, with his 25-year-long grudge against Spock (which is very nicely explained and fleshed out in the Countdown comic) is a poor man's Khan. But totherwise, I thought the show was a hoot. Entertaining from beginning to end. I gotta find an IMAX to go see it on...

[Walker in Eternity]

Will there really come a time when teenagers show rebellion by listening to 250-year-old music? No man can say.

Maybe because 23rd Century society is so perfect, music will become dull and meaningless (like supermarket muzak), perhaps the only way to rebel against the dull conformity is to dig up rebellious tracks from the past.

[OneCentStamp]

Will there really come a time when teenagers show rebellion by listening to 250-year-old music? No man can say.

250-year-old music that wasn't especially rebellious at the time, even. :smile:

[dread pirate jimbo]

Hey! Don't you guys be dissin' the greatest Jewish rap band of all time!

[eleanorigby]

Some thoughts:

Hated, hated, hated the boy Kirk. The actor looked like a human Jimmy Neutron. I thought it was his dad's antique car. The scenery was too flat for Iowa and Iowa has no canyons. The cop was just Robocop stupid. I did not recognize the music and thought, well, the music of the 24 century truly sucks.

Kirk gets beat up waaaaay too much in this movie. And at 0800 the very next day, he has no marks on his face despite the blood bath he had the night before.


I thought the plot was laughable and I did. Out loud, to the consternation of many of the teen males around me. I liked most of the characters, though. Young Kirk was a bit of a jerk, but he grew up quickly. Young Spock was great--best character all around. He really did step into Nimoy's shoes (I'm a bit jealous of this new Uhura--I've always found Spock attractive in a Vulcany kind of way). The Scotty thing--eh, it's a movie. Chekov I wanted to drown, especially as he ran down to the transporter room to save whomever he saved at that point. McCoy seemed to waver between the old Bones and Number 1.

I have NO trouble at all in believing there were racist Vulcans at the academy. Spock carried a shame of his human half for most of his life. You don't learn that w/o some major cultural baggage. I am a bit :dub: re the Vulcan bullies--my bet is that is that merely socially ostracized him and ignored him, not openly beat him up. A small point.


This film is geared to teen males (like almost every other film out there). I can see the appeal. But there are so many holes and so many times when a line of dialogue or a tweak in story could have made it a better film. The shortest interaction or even just a look between Uhura and Spock before the one where she basically laps him up would have helped--it would have also explained a bit more of the dynamic between Uhura and Kirk (she likes her men logical and intellectual, not hot headed action figures).

Still, I'd rent it again on DVD. But now I want to see all the old ones. I had a thing for Star Trek when I was about 12.

[levdrakon]

The scenery was too flat for Iowa and Iowa has no canyons.

Much of the canyon seemed to have been sliced away in rectangular chunks, and I think most people assume that was a quarry.

Kirk gets beat up waaaaay too much in this movie. And at 0800 the very next day, he has no marks on his face despite the blood bath he had the night before.

He did get beat up a lot. That's a complaint I have about a lot of shows too, like Lost. But, it seemed to me Kirk kept his facial bruises throughout most of the movie, which seemed novel, especially since Bones was following him around shooting him up with all sorts of future medicine that ought to have made short work of his injuries.

I thought the plot was laughable and I did. Out loud, to the consternation of many of the teen males around me.

Wow, did you play video games and take calls on your cell phone too?

[eleanorigby]

The scenery was too flat for Iowa and Iowa has no canyons.

Much of the canyon seemed to have been sliced away in rectangular chunks, and I think most people assume that was a quarry.

It didn't seem like a quarry to me, but ok.

I thought the plot was laughable and I did. Out loud, to the consternation of many of the teen males around me.

Wow, did you play video games and take calls on your cell phone too?

Huh? I laughed when I thought things were funny. I was not in church; I was in a movie theater. I don't play video games. I turn my cell phone off in theaters. Part of the charm of Star Trek is that it (like the TV series Batman) knew that some of what was going on was tongue in cheek. It could laugh at itself. Unfortunately, this movie takes itself a bit too seriously--probably because the characters are too young to have gained true perspective on their lots in life. I wasn't laughing at the teen males near me. I wish I could have been laughing with the film instead of at it.

I don't see this young Kirk as some kind of hotshot bad ass. He is cocky, arrogant and stupid at times. The audience is never given a chance to see that he truly is brilliant and can pull off the daring and dangerous things he posits. As was said upthread by someone else:

It has to do with the character being a snotty, arrogant, vomitous son of a bitch who was so uniformly and reliably repellent that not only is it plausible for Nyota Uhura would decline to give him the time of day, but any woman who was willing to make the beast with two backs with him may, on that evidence alone, be reasonably assumed to be suffering from profound and likely incurable mental illness.

This Kirk is a class A jerk. He only finds his feet (the actor) about 2/3s of the way through the film and voila! becomes likable and admirable. If you had never seen Star Trek before, had no knowledge of the chemistry between the men or any background on their characters, you would not see this movie the same way. Thank god we had many years of the 3 men (6 if you count Scotty, Chekov and Sulu) building the layers of complicated, human relationships because if it was up to this movie, such longterm friendships would be implausible.

I don't fault the actor as much as the director. This movie is jumbled, jumpy and fragmented. It relies on a solid fan base to connect the dots. This is a good, solid story--one that I hope continues for some time--and I hope they do better by it in future films.

[Chimera]

I'm very probably going to see it tomorrow, so y'all can wait until then to see how you should feel about the movie based on my perfect understanding of all things.

[eleanorigby]

What stays with me re the younger Kirk is his ridiculous swollen hands--that scene is an example of all that is wrong with this movie.


But even with that, I'll still rent it when it comes out on DVD. I like cheese. :smile:

[The Logos]

But even with that, I'll still rent it when it comes out on DVD. I like cheese. :smile:

Something TOS did not shy away from. The cheese is a part of what I referred to when I described the direction of Star Trek as being a synthesis of 60's and 2000's aesthetics. For what it's worth, I found this aspect of the film less jarring on subsequent viewing. I've organized another group of friends to see the movie, again at the KSC IMAX theater. I justify it by declaring it an experiment in appreciation of the motion picture. :smile:

[eleanorigby]

I know--TOS and other series (like Batman) reveled in cheese. I hope this reboot can ride that line between cheese and strong characters w/o mucking things up.

[OneCentStamp]

What stays with me re the younger Kirk is his ridiculous swollen hands--that scene is an example of all that is wrong with this movie.

The story behind that is that Tyler Perry, a long-time fan of TOS and TNG, asked to be allowed to direct one scene, and do so for $1, much like Quentin Tarantino in Sin City. J.J. Abrams agreed, on the single condition that Perry accomplish it all in one day so as not to throw the shooting schedule off. Perry readily agreed, and packing his trademark fat suit - responsible for such laugh riots as Madea, Madea Goes To Jail, Madea II: Electric Boogaloo and The Last Temptation of Madea - headed off for Hollywood. Unfortunately, the entire fat suit was confiscated by Nashville airport security with the exception of the hands.

[Chimera]

I liked it quite a bit. That's all I can say at this time, having just gotten home from watching it.

For all the whining about young Kirk, I can only be mystified. There wasn't enough there on the screen to establish HALF the assumptions and judgments people have made here.