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Thread: Do US churches give wine to minors?

  1. #1
    Stegodon kk fusion's avatar
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    Default Do US churches give wine to minors?

    I recall that in some states it is legal for minors to drink if they are with a legal guardian. So are teenagers given wine for communion if they go to church with their parents?

  2. #2
    Confused Box Guy fachverwirrt's avatar
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    I was given communion wine when I was young. Heck, not even a teenager. Probably ten.

    I have no idea what the deal is these days. I also can't speak to the actual legality. Just the anecdote.

    ETA: It would probably be helpful to list my age. I'm 32, so "probably ten" was mid eighties.

  3. #3
    Stegodon
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    At our (Roman Catholic) church, anyone who wishes to receive communion wine is given it. This includes children of any age. Our son tried it once last year, when he was 10, but didn't care for the taste, so he sticks with just the wafer now.

    I don't know if California state laws regarding minors and alcohol have an exception written into them for communion wine, or if this is just a case where the law is deliberately unenforced.

    And yes, it is wine in our case, and not grape juice.

  4. #4
    Oliphaunt
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    My church offers both wine and white grape juice. Kids have their First Communion at age 10, and are allowed to take either one.
    It's only about a half-ounce, so it's not like there's any danger of getting tipsy.
    I'm not good at the advice. Can I offer you a sarcastic comment instead?

  5. #5
    Oliphaunt
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Most (but not all) states have exemptions written into their laws to allow the supervised consumption of alcohol by minors as part of a religious service. This means it's legal for kids to take a sip at Communion, but still illegal to have a glass of the same wine at a wedding reception in the church basement.

    It's probably more common to break the letter of the law by openly burning candles, violating fire code, than offering Communion wine to minors. And the government is about as interested in prosecuting both; that is, not at all.

    Old article about Missouri's attempt to make these things legal.
    Whatever became of the moment when one first knew about death? There must have been one. A moment. In childhood. When it first occurred to you that you don't go on forever. Must have been shattering. Stamped into one's memory. And yet, I can't remember it.

  6. #6
    Stegodon
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Why wouldn't churches be allowed to give wine to minors?

  7. #7
    Oliphaunt
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Quote Originally posted by tunaman
    Why wouldn't churches be allowed to give wine to minors?
    Because, generally speaking, states have laws that say minors can't be given wine. The wise ones write exceptions for religious services into their laws. Others don't bother prosecuting what is, technically speaking, a crime.
    Whatever became of the moment when one first knew about death? There must have been one. A moment. In childhood. When it first occurred to you that you don't go on forever. Must have been shattering. Stamped into one's memory. And yet, I can't remember it.

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    Elephant
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Attempts at zero-tolerance policies, for one thing. For another (and this is a hypothetical), a teetotaler Baptist prosecutor may try to persecute the local Catholic church or Jewish community by enforcing the drinking age. I'm reasonably sure the ACLU will be on this like white on rice as a First Amendment issue should something like that come to pass. (NOTE: That was not a Baptist-bashing, it was just an example of a denomination that is known for teetotalism.)

    That said, the Jewish prayer blessing the wine translates to "fruit of the vine." (boray pree hagafen) This permits grape juice for kiddush and other occasions like the Passover seder when wine would normally be served. This loophole allows congregations to serve grape juice when alcohol isn't permitted for other reasons. For example, the chaplain when I was in A school only offered grape juice to honor the no-alcohol regulations for recruits. He would be justified in telling the command to back off, but it was a small conciliatory gesture that paid off in other ways that benefited the community he served.
    There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches. -- Ray Bradbury's "Coda"

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    Oliphaunt
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    I must say it is heartening to hear of Christians performing civil disobedience.

  10. #10
    Oliphaunt
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Quote Originally posted by Liberal
    I must say it is heartening to hear of Christians performing civil disobedience.
    Yeah, you gotta watch out for us Lutherans. We're a wild bunch!
    I'm not good at the advice. Can I offer you a sarcastic comment instead?

  11. #11
    Elephant
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Quote Originally posted by Liberal
    I must say it is heartening to hear of Christians performing civil disobedience.
    According to some historical records, a long haired radical stirred up trouble and threw money-changers out of a temple.
    Opportunity is missed by most people, because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Edison

  12. #12
    Stegodon
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Quote Originally posted by WhyNot
    Quote Originally posted by tunaman
    Why wouldn't churches be allowed to give wine to minors?
    Because, generally speaking, states have laws that say minors can't be given wine. The wise ones write exceptions for religious services into their laws. Others don't bother prosecuting what is, technically speaking, a crime.
    I've never heard of a US state that didn't have exceptions for religious services. Hell, there were exceptions for sacramental wine during Prohibition... is there really a US state that doesn't have such an exception? A "teetotaler Baptist prosecutor" could only go after Catholic\Anglican\Lutheran\Orthodox\Jewish churches if state law didn't have such an exception, and (as I've said), I've never heard of one.

    FWIW, Georgia law once said that minors could drink with their parent's permission and on their property only. So a minor could drink at home if their parents were OK with it, but they could not drink at a bar with their parents. This was in the 1980s (when I was in high school), so the law might have changed since then.

  13. #13
    Oliphaunt
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Quote Originally posted by tunaman
    I've never heard of a US state that didn't have exceptions for religious services. Hell, there were exceptions for sacramental wine during Prohibition... is there really a US state that doesn't have such an exception?
    Indiana, Idaho, Kansas, Alabama, West Virginia and Washington, D.C. have no provision for a religious exemption to their alcohol law.

    In Pennsylvania, you can legally furnish alcohol to a minor for religious purposes, but it's still illegal for him to consume (or posses) it. I'm not sure what he's supposed to do with it! I guess it makes only a little more sense than North Dakota, where a minor may not purchase or posses, nor may you furnish him with alcohol, but he may drink it for religious purposes. I guess if he can turn water into wine, he's all set.

    There might be other exceptions, but those were the easiest to find at this site. (Sorry, I can't seem to link to each state's individual profile.)
    Whatever became of the moment when one first knew about death? There must have been one. A moment. In childhood. When it first occurred to you that you don't go on forever. Must have been shattering. Stamped into one's memory. And yet, I can't remember it.

  14. #14
    Stegodon
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Wow - that's messed up.

  15. #15
    Stegodon
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    I was never offered communion wine, just the wafer.

  16. #16
    Elephant
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Quote Originally posted by WhyNot
    In Pennsylvania, you can legally furnish alcohol to a minor for religious purposes, but it's still illegal for him to consume (or posses) it. I'm not sure what he's supposed to do with it! I guess it makes only a little more sense than North Dakota, where a minor may not purchase or posses, nor may you furnish him with alcohol, but he may drink it for religious purposes. I guess if he can turn water into wine, he's all set.
    Interesting. Starting at about age 12, I had communion wine in church, from a 'common cup' in PA. New Jersey banned the common cup years ago, but the last church I attended there had a mix of red wine and white grape juice in the tray, and baptised members of the congregation under 21 could choose for themelves.
    Opportunity is missed by most people, because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Edison

  17. #17
    Elephant
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Quote Originally posted by tunaman
    Quote Originally posted by WhyNot
    Quote Originally posted by tunaman
    Why wouldn't churches be allowed to give wine to minors?
    I've never heard of a US state that didn't have exceptions for religious services. Hell, there were exceptions for sacramental wine during Prohibition... is there really a US state that doesn't have such an exception? A "teetotaler Baptist prosecutor" could only go after Catholic\Anglican\Lutheran\Orthodox\Jewish churches if state law didn't have such an exception, and (as I've said), I've never heard of one.

    FWIW, Georgia law once said that minors could drink with their parent's permission and on their property only. So a minor could drink at home if their parents were OK with it, but they could not drink at a bar with their parents. This was in the 1980s (when I was in high school), so the law might have changed since then.
    As I said, though, such an attempt at prosecution would probably not pass constitutional muster. I realize that the odds of such a prosecution happening are so slim as to be nonexistent, but I can see it happening if an elected DA is pandering to a particularly fundamentalist base. It's entirely likely that religious exceptions don't exist in some states because the issue is so obvious that it didn't need to be codified.
    There is more than one way to burn a book. And the world is full of people running about with lit matches. -- Ray Bradbury's "Coda"

  18. #18
    Stegodon kk fusion's avatar
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    That's an interesting link, WhyNot. Looks like drinking laws in the US are not as restrictive as they are sometimes portrayed.

  19. #19
    Stegodon
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    Default Re: Do US churches give wine to minors?

    Quote Originally posted by MsRobyn
    As I said, though, such an attempt at prosecution would probably not pass constitutional muster. I realize that the odds of such a prosecution happening are so slim as to be nonexistent, but I can see it happening if an elected DA is pandering to a particularly fundamentalist base. It's entirely likely that religious exceptions don't exist in some states because the issue is so obvious that it didn't need to be codified.
    Well, yeah. But I was thinking that it couldn't come up in most states, since they had exceptions to the law for religious ceremonies. WhyNot's link proves otherwise.

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