I would like clarification of the rules

[Julie]

From the "Oh, C'MON, MsRobyn" thread:

[Mod Note]

Liberal and Excalibre: Please cease this hijack and open up a new thread if you wish to continue giving each other metaphorical wedgies. Thanks.

They're already in the 'Dome. Is it really a hijack for them to be snarling at one another?

Absolutely. This isn't a free-for-all.

There's a rule against it?

No, but we're not going to have a rule for every little thing that crops up. We've all seen where that leads to. However, I've made my request--note, please, that no warnings have been given--and it stands. You (and that's a general "you") need to get out of the mindset that if there's no rule against it, it's perfectly okay and we can't stop you. We'll tolerate a LOT here, but there are limits.

This exchange reveals a severe disconnect to me between what I thought the rules atmosphere was going to be and how QED is enforcing them. In essence, yes, I assumed that everything not forbidden is permitted, ESPECIALLY something like hijacking a Thunderdome thread that had already resulted in widespread agreement and had run its course.

In short, it's the Thunderdome. Why isn't it a "free-for-all" within the constraints of the rules?

[Harlequin]

Maybe it's a utopian thought, but I was hoping we could have few rules (in the style of "Don't be a jerk" rather than "Don't say 'cunt'") and when a moderator feels you're crossing the line you get told that and you stop doing it. If you have a problem with it or with what you see as inconsistency in moderation, you can take it up for discussion. Only if you persist is there any reason for warnings.

[mozg]

Maybe it's a utopian thought, but I was hoping we could have few rules (in the style of "Don't be a jerk" rather than "Don't say 'cunt'") and when a moderator feels you're crossing the line you get told that and you stop doing it. If you have a problem with it or with what you see as inconsistency in moderation, you can take it up for discussion. Only if you persist is there any reason for warnings.

Here's one for ya:

Technical Staff:
McNutty
CRSP
Q.E.D.
What Exit?

Moderators:
BiblioCat
danceswithcats
MsRobyn
Winston Smith

From: The Staff

Looks like QED has decided he's going to punch outside his weight class.

Beyond that, I really thought the idea here was to have less lines, which would therefore mean that we would see a lot less of 'You're over the line', which isn't how things seem to be going. I have a problem with the fact that this was supposed to be a freer environment, and all of a sudden the iron-fist is coming down in thread after thread saying 'that's not appropriate here.'

The idea that the moderators are looking for things that aren't against the non-existent rules but that they need to tell people to stop doing, shit, that's straight out of the Ed Zotti and Lynn Bodoni playbook.

In short, it's the Thunderdome. Why isn't it a "free-for-all" within the constraints of the rules?

Because QED appears to have won the Ed Zotti look alike contest?

It's no secret that QED wanted to be a SDMB moderator for a long ass time. Now he is. Only he's doing in the wrong forum.

[Harlequin]

Beyond that, I really thought the idea here was to have less lines

I thought the idea was to have less stupid lines. And have staff that listen to the posters.

The idea that the moderators are looking for things that aren't against the non-existent rules but that they need to tell people to stop doing, shit, that's straight out of the Ed Zotti and Lynn Bodoni playbook.

I don't see that at all, and obviously a praxis would develop. I think it's better to let it develop than try to nail everything down in hard rules.

It's no secret that QED wanted to be a SDMB moderator for a long ass time.

I thought you could apply to be a moderator there? Was he rejected?

[What Exit?]

I'm not good at circling the wagons I guess. I agree that I found Q.E.D.'s note in the thread unexpected. The thread had run its course I think and the Liberal/Excalibre exchange was not hurting it. I agree if they want to continue they should probably get their own thread or PM each other, but I don't think it was worth moderating the situation.

Like Harlequin I would like to see the actual rules and moderating kept to a minimum.

ETA:

I thought you could apply to be a moderator there? Was he rejected?

I don't know if he applied or not, but basically you request the application and fill it out and return it to TubaDiva. The turnover in mods is very low at the SDMB and they have their own methods for choosing a mod. I don't know the details. Honestly if we could lure over Giraffe or Veb for another post I would love to hear the answer if they can share. I know many have volunteered for the Dope. In general you don't get turned downed, you just get left in the Queue so to speak.

[Myrnalene]

I would love to hear from Crispy on this, because my understanding of what this place would be like is in line with what others in this thread are saying. It's been kinda wierd in the past couple of says to see SDMB rules pop up with no discussion.

Also, if there was moderating to be done in the Thunderdome, surely that's up to Winston Smith to enforce? He is the TD mod, yes?

I'm not good at circling the wagons I guess.

To your great credit.

[Q.E.D.]

As I said, it wasn't just that one thread, it was the fact that they carried this slapfight through at least four other threads and enough was enough. I made that perfectly clear in the referenced thread. I also made it perfectly clear that no warnings were being issued and the note was phrased more as a request than an order, and was based on numerous complaints by other posters in the various threads they hijacked. Not only are you barking up the wrong tree, mozg, you're not even in the right forest.

[Myrnalene]

As I said, it wasn't just that one thread, it was the fact that they carried this slapfight through at least four other threads and enough was enough. I made that perfectly clear in the referenced thread. I also made it perfectly clear that no warnings were being issued and the note was phrased more as a request than an order, and was based on numerous complaints by other posters in the various threads they hijacked. Not only are you barking up the wrong tree, mozg, you're not even in the right forest.

I agree they were being quite tiresome.

Why not leave it up to Winston, though? At least let him get his feet wet in his new forum.

[mozg]

As I said, it wasn't just that one thread, it was the fact that they carried this slapfight through at least four other threads and enough was enough. I made that perfectly clear in the referenced thread. I also made it perfectly clear that no warnings were being issued and the note was phrased more as a request than an order, and was based on numerous complaints by other posters in the various threads they hijacked. Not only are you barking up the wrong tree, mozg, you're not even in the right forest.

Why exactly are you moderating when you're supposedly a member of the technical staff?

[Q.E.D.]

Judgment call. But, sure, any further action is entirely up to Winston, and if he really wants to allow them to continue hijacking 'Dome threads, that's okay with me. I believed the people had spoken, however, and the consensus was it was not wanted. AS further evidence of this, I point to the thread opened by Chimera.

I was as polite in my request as I knew how to be, yet some people act like I stomped ont heir ice cream cone. You cannot please everyone; I'm not even going to try. I can only try to gauge what the membership wants and act accordingly. I belive I have done that in this instance.

[Q.E.D.]

Why exactly are you moderating when you're supposedly a member of the technical staff?

You'll have to take that up with CRSP. He indicated to me that he trusts my judgment; if he wants me to not moderate any longer, that's fine by me. As of this posting, he's not given any such indication.

[Myrnalene]

Judgment call. But, sure, any further action is entirely up to Winston, and if he really wants to allow them to continue hijacking 'Dome threads, that's okay with me. I believed the people had spoken, however, and the consensus was it was not wanted. AS further evidence of this, I point to the thread opened by Chimera.

I was as polite in my request as I knew how to be, yet some people act like I stomped ont heir ice cream cone. You cannot please everyone; I'm not even going to try. I can only try to gauge what the membership wants and act accordingly. I belive I have done that in this instance.

I believe even those of us who wanted them to stop did not wish for intervention from on high. Speaking for myself, I would like to see more reliance on self policing than direction from the moderators or technical staff.

[Julie]

Q.E.D., mozg brings up a point that probably needs clarification. Are you a moderator?

ETA: I see this has been addressed.


When a mod makes a mod decision, and you explicitly put that into orange mod text, I want there to be something backing up that decision that's not "because I said so." My very strong impression from that thread is you are pulling a "because I said so."

On preview: If you are implying that I am acting like you stomped on my ice cream cone, come out and say it to my face, not in a snotty aside.

[mozg]

Why exactly are you moderating when you're supposedly a member of the technical staff?

You'll have to take that up with CRSP. He indicated to me that he trusts my judgment; if he wants me to not moderate any longer, that's fine by me. As of this posting, he's not given any such indication.

CRSP, I'm asking that QED stop moderating. He's doing a piss poor job of not pissing off the people here, and if your intent is to make this a happy, fun, not-SDMB place, allowing QED to moderate is not helping.

[CRSP]

I agree leaving it to Winston Smith would have been better, and I think Q.E.D. and I should really refrain from moderating, from now on (in Q.E.D.'s defence, Winston Smith had made it known to us that he's busy with work for the next few days, though, and we both get reported post e-mails, due to us having admin status). We've set the place up and got the moderators appointed/elected, so now they should be running things, for the most part. Q.E.D. and me stepping in was OK when we only had four global moderators, but now the situation is different.

In short:

Q.E.D. and I don't moderate from now on, only get involved when it's time to ban or appoint new moderators.

The board's philosophy is as little moderation as possible, where this is reasonable. A decent debating forum needs certain rules, just to function correctly. A flame forum, like Thunderdome, not so much.

Winston Smith is in charge of setting the tone in the Thunderdome.

My point in setting up Thunderdome was to have as few rules as possible.

Petition WS if you want more rules adding. Ideally, new rules should be voted on, where practical.

[What Exit?]

Judgment call. But, sure, any further action is entirely up to Winston, and if he really wants to allow them to continue hijacking 'Dome threads, that's okay with me. I believed the people had spoken, however, and the consensus was it was not wanted. AS further evidence of this, I point to the thread opened by Chimera.

I was as polite in my request as I knew how to be, yet some people act like I stomped ont heir ice cream cone. You cannot please everyone; I'm not even going to try. I can only try to gauge what the membership wants and act accordingly. I belive I have done that in this instance.

Question for you, did anyone actually report a post of theirs? If not than there was probably no need to police the thread, but rather notify Winston of the problem. I agree there was a problem, I think most people would agree with that. The question seems to be was there a need to moderate?

To everyone else, please remember this is On the Job training for all of us and we are feeling our way. We will make mistakes and probably continue to make mistakes. I can see why he did the equivalent of blowing the whistle in that thread, I just thought we weren't going to do it in situations like that. I could well be wrong.

ETA: I see I am a few minutes late.

[Julie]

Thanks for the clarification, CRSP.

To me, it doesn't matter who is doing the moderating, so long as I can understand what the rules are and get answers when I ask. This board has been great at both, and that's due to all of the staff. Thanks.

[mozg]

in Q.E.D.'s defence, Winston Smith had made it known to us that he's busy with work for the next few days, though, and we both get reported post e-mails, due to us having admin status

It is not necessary to have some kind of 'moderator action' for every reported post. Sometimes, the moderator should be able to look at something and determine that it's not necessary to get involved.

The Liberal and Excalibre situation should have been left completely alone. They're both adults, and they ought to be able to handle their own disagreements, particularly since the original topic of that thread had already run its course.

A decent debating forum needs certain rules, just to function correctly. A flame forum, like Thunderdome, not so much.

Exactly why I don't think QED is cut out for moderation, and am glad to see you say twice that you think he shouldn't be moderating.

Petition WS if you want more rules adding. Ideally, new rules should be voted on, where practical.

I am not asking for new rules. I think a lack of rules is a good thing.

I agree there was a problem, I think most people would agree with that. The question seems to be was there a need to moderate?

I don't think that there was a problem. I also don't think that every supposed problem requires some kind of moderator intervention. We're all adults here, aren't we? People need to sort their shit out themselves.

[Rube E. Tewesday]

The lack of ego that Crispy is bringing to this is stunning, and much appreciated.

[mozg]

The lack of ego that Crispy is bringing to this is stunning, and much appreciated.

Yeah, CRSP is doing a good job. I feel kind of bad for him in that QED got out of control.

[CRSP]

mozg, Q.E.D.'s had a large part in keeping this place going. He's put in a tonne of effort, for which I'm eternally thankful. Everybody's still finding their feet, with respect to running this place. Cut him some slack, please.

[Sarahfeena]

The thing I would like to see in a situation like the Lib/Exy slapfight is for posters who are irritated by it to open up a thread in the Thunderdome, calling them out on their behavior...isn't that kind of what that forum is for? There's no reason we shouldn't be able to have fewer rules and more posters discussing things like adults, rather than getting moderators involved.

[TheFlame]

The thing I would like to see in a situation like the Lib/Exy slapfight is for posters who are irritated by it to open up a thread in the Thunderdome, calling them out on their behavior...isn't that kind of what that forum is for? There's no reason we shouldn't be able to have fewer rules and more posters discussing things like adults, rather than getting moderators involved.

In other words, a thread like this one !

[What Exit?]

The lack of ego that Crispy is bringing to this is stunning, and much appreciated.

Yeah, CRSP is doing a good job. I feel kind of bad for him in that QED got out of control.

Can you please cut him a little slack even if you don't like him. As I said, this is on the Job training for all of us and we are feeling our way. We will make mistakes and hopefully mistake will be addressed better than in some other places. He has done a tremendous job on the tech side and I think he has only modded a few times in all.

[Truth and Beauty]

mozg, Q.E.D.'s had a large part in keeping this place going. He's put in a tonne of effort, for which I'm eternally thankful. Everybody's still finding their feet, with respect to running this place. Cut him some slack, please.

I don't know whethere to or . I just got invited here, and on my second day I see people circling the wagons to defend the new TubaDiva.
Words fail me.

[Truth and Beauty]

I also made it perfectly clear that no warnings were being issued and the note was phrased more as a request than an order

Just making sure. What the moderators tell us here are just requests, not orders. We're free to ignore them. OK.

[What Exit?]

mozg, Q.E.D.'s had a large part in keeping this place going. He's put in a tonne of effort, for which I'm eternally thankful. Everybody's still finding their feet, with respect to running this place. Cut him some slack, please.

I don't know whethere to or . I just got invited here, and on my second day I see people circling the wagons to defend the new TubaDiva.
Words fail me.

Now you are seeing things. Reread the thread please. The wagons have not been circled and Q.E.D. has been asked not to moderate. What more do you want? A pony?

[Julie]

The lack of ego that Crispy is bringing to this is stunning, and much appreciated.

Yeah, CRSP is doing a good job. I feel kind of bad for him in that QED got out of control.

I think calling Q.E.D. "out of control" is wildly hyperbolic and more than a little silly.

[mozg]

[quote=Truth and Beauty]

I also made it perfectly clear that no warnings were being issued and the note was phrased more as a request than an order

Just making sure. What the moderators tell us here are just requests, not orders. We're free to ignore them. OK.[/quote:i8dy8e3u]

I think it's that you're pretty free to ignore what QED tells you because he's not a moderator even if he has only 'moderated a few times'.

[Truth and Beauty]

Now you are seeing things.

Yes, posts at a message board that anyone with eyes can see. I must be a fucking genius!

Reread the thread please.

I did but the words where the same as before. Can you dumbo it down for me to words of one syllable perhaps?

The wagons have not been circled and Q.E.D. has been asked not to moderate.

But we should ignore his incompetence because he's given so much to the boards. No, that doesn't remind me of the dope mods and TubaDiva at all.

What more do you want? A pony?

Yes that would be nice. kthxbye

[beebs]

Why are you bitching about nothing?

[Truth and Beauty]

Why are you bitching about nothing?

Coz I wanna. U gonna make something out of it? U no where the Thunderdome is. 8-)

Plus with a bunch of people bitching about nothing this seems so much more like my old home. :evil:

[Myrnalene]

Can you dumbo it down for me to words of one syllable perhaps?

This is the ADB so I am straining at the bit here since I can't say what I really think of you. But considering the above, I do not think your intentions in coming here are pure. If you are not willing to take us as you find us and judge objectively, and not go by what the kids you think are cool are saying elsewhere, then maybe we would all be happier if you did not stay.

If you are able to put preconceptions aside and post in good faith, however, I urge you to do it. This place fucking rocks.

[Truth and Beauty]

This is the ADB so I am straining at the bit here since I can't say what I really think of you.

That's too bad. But you proved in another thread that you were telepathic. Just beam your thoughts at me, willya?

But considering the above, I do not think your intentions in coming here are pure.

Pure? pure? Is this a Jonas Brothers concert?

If you are not willing to take us as you find us and judge objectively, and not go by what the kids you think are cool are saying elsewhere, then maybe we would all be happier if you did not stay.

"Don't let the door hit you." Boy, doesn't [i]that[i] remind me of another board where the complainers were given the same advice.

If you are able to put preconceptions aside and post in good faith, however, I urge you to do it. This place fucking rocks.

Second thread where you said this. But keep on truckin'! If you say it enough times, maybe by sheer force of repetition it will brainwash me. As I said before, if I was able to ignore the bad and the incompetent, and focus on the good, I'd still be at the Dope. The fact that I can't is what brought me here. Is that so wrong?

[Myrnalene]

I'm done. No matter what anyone says here you will twist it to your ends and then fuck off back to the Snarkpit and talk about how retarded we are, even though it's you that's not comprehending a single thing that's being told to you.

The most I can get by arguing with you is a warning for saying what needs to be said, since it cannot be done in language suitable to this forum.

Regards.

[Truth and Beauty]

I'm done. No matter what anyone says here you will twist it to your ends and then fuck off back to the Snarkpit and talk about how retarded we are, even though it's you that's not comprehending a single thing that's being told to you.

I know this would fit your worldview very well, that anyone that disagrees with you must of course be evil, but it may shock you to hear that I don't post at the Snarkpit. I am starting to doubt your telepathic skills that I was believing in just a few minutes ago.

[hatesfreedom]

I'm done. No matter what anyone says here you will twist it to your ends and then fuck off back to the Snarkpit and talk about how retarded we are, even though it's you that's not comprehending a single thing that's being told to you.

I know this would fit your worldview very well, that anyone that disagrees with you must of course be evil, but it may shock you to hear that I don't post at the Snarkpit. I am starting to doubt your telepathic skills that I was believing in just a few minutes ago.

Ur dumb, there's no such thing as telepathic powers!

I knows cause I trys

[Myrnalene]

See? At least the ferret is cute.

Even if I think it may have lice.

[leander]

Well, that didn't take very long, did it, QED?

[Idle Thoughts]

Well, that didn't take very long, did it, QED?

So are you going to start stalking him on here too like you do on the SDMB?

[xash]

I don't know if he applied or not, but basically you request the application and fill it out and return it to TubaDiva. The turnover in mods is very low at the SDMB and they have their own methods for choosing a mod. I don't know the details. Honestly if we could lure over Giraffe or Veb for another post I would love to hear the answer if they can share. I know many have volunteered for the Dope. In general you don't get turned downed, you just get left in the Queue so to speak.

I cannot speak to any specific application, but I can share general information.

There is a standard SDMB mod application. Everyone who is interested in applying for mod fills in this application and submits it to Tuba. The application is then forwarded to the mod email loop for vetting by the existing mods. These comments are then forwarded to Ed, who makes the final decision.

In some cases, mods are invited to apply. In other cases, posters request a moderator application. And a few times in the past, a moderator recruitment thread has been posted to ATMB.

It is normal for applicants to not hear back for 6 months or longer, mostly because there is no pressing need for a new moderator during that period. Some didn't hear back for almost 2 years, because a new moderator was not required during that period. Others have heard back within a few days. It all depends on the timing of an application, and the need for a moderator at a specific time or in a specific forum. Sometimes, mod applications are requested or reviewed when existing mod(s) express an interest in stepping down. This allows for a smooth transition between the old and the new. Other times, a new forum might prompt the need for new moderators.

Applicants get to state a preference for the forums which they would like to moderate. Sometimes a moderator is not approved, not because they aren't competent overall, but because they might not be a good fit for the forum(s) which they wish to moderate.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Man, if I ran this place, there would be at least two swift bannings of people in this thread. Good thing that even temporarily-called-into-action mods like QED have more forethought than me.

[Dudley Garrett]

Seems like Truth and Beauty is trolling. Either that, or he just doesn't want to be here.

[leander]

Well, that didn't take very long, did it, QED?

So are you going to start stalking him on here too like you do on the SDMB?

Now this kind of really stupid post deserves a response. You should feel privileged -- very few posts do.

I haven't had anything to do with QED in a long time. Frankly, I don't have the time. I barely have the time to post on this or the other 2-3 boards around. It's not really a priority in my life, as it seems to be in so many of yours.

But yes, I do find it very amusing to see him schooled. Those things I've been making fun of him about -- it seems the rest of you folks have now also seen. What a surprise!

[Q.E.D.]

[quote="leanderBut yes, I do find it very amusing to see him schooled. Those things I've been making fun of him about -- it seems the rest of you folks have now also seen. What a surprise! [/quote]
Except that nothing of this sort has occurred outside of your fevered imaginings. You seem to be constitutionally incapable of seeing all the negative posts directed at you, and you seize upon one or two favorable ones and somehow manage to perceive that as a victory. Go and actually count the number of posters on your side if you don't believe me.

[What Exit?]

But yes, I do find it very amusing to see him schooled. Those things I've been making fun of him about -- it seems the rest of you folks have now also seen. What a surprise!

Except that nothing of this sort has occurred outside of your fevered imaginings. You seem to be constitutionally incapable of seeing all the negative posts directed at you, and you seize upon one or two favorable ones and somehow manage to perceive that as a victory. Go and actually count the number of posters on your side if you don't believe me.

But the snarkpit gave him Kudos. That is all the praise he needs.

[Cervaise]

Man, if I ran this place, there would be at least two swift bannings of people in this thread.

Agreed. One, certainly. Two, probably. Maybe even three.

[Liberal]

I'm done. No matter what anyone says here you will twist it to your ends and then fuck off back to the Snarkpit and talk about how retarded we are, even though it's you that's not comprehending a single thing that's being told to you.

You appear to have tangled with T&B here and in this thread and God knows where else. Not that there's anything wrong with "ripping each other's throats out". Not when you do it.

[Myrnalene]

I'm done. No matter what anyone says here you will twist it to your ends and then fuck off back to the Snarkpit and talk about how retarded we are, even though it's you that's not comprehending a single thing that's being told to you.

You appear to have tangled with T&B here and in this thread and God knows where else. Not that there's anything wrong with "ripping each other's throats out". Not when you do it.

Holding a grudge, are we Lib? Let's please not clutter up other threads with it. You can PM me if you'd like and I will be glad to discuss it with you.

[Liberal]

Holding a grudge, are we Lib?

[...shrug...] I didn't know y'all had a grudge to hold.

Let's please not clutter up other threads with it.

That's the spirit! I support you both in that endeavor.

You can PM me if you'd like and I will be glad to discuss it with you.

It's none of my business, really. You two should just settle this between yourselves.