Verboten: Alphatown Mafia Unspoiled Discussion

[RoOsh]

:raises up head:
What's this? Total Ulla is actually... playing Mafia? And using logic and reasoning to analyze other players? No wishy-washy touchy feely crap, or voting with the experienced players, but actually independently questioning players and offering analysis? Holy crap! (O_O)

[CatInASuit]

No bufftabby, that's why.

[RoOsh]

-_-

Julie's not going to like Day 5 then if Winston's been a chore to her already and they're keeping him alive.... Unless all this drama was a one day thing.
That's why sometimes you just have to lynch the person clouding the Data streams, even if you're not sure if they're scummy or not (ie: The Bear Nanno Lynch), if we had a 2nd day of that, it'd just lead to nothing really and we'd waste another day trying to lynch him and it's one step closer to lylo.
Easier just to off the distractors early.
Man i need to be a Vig... I'd be awesome at it.

[NAF1138]

-_-

Julie's not going to like Day 5 then if Winston's been a chore to her already and they're keeping him alive.... Unless all this drama was a one day thing.
That's why sometimes you just have to lynch the person clouding the Data streams, even if you're not sure if they're scummy or not (ie: The Bear Nanno Lynch), if we had a 2nd day of that, it'd just lead to nothing really and we'd waste another day trying to lynch him and it's one step closer to lylo.
Easier just to off the distractors early.
Man i need to be a Vig... I'd be awesome at it.

Unfortunatly it's too late in the game and too many townies dead to do that. Lynching Chucara is the right choice (even though Winston has all but claimed scum) because it was the sure thing and town needs the wiggle room.

[tirial]

Go town! One woof woof down, a few more to go...

(All dogs go to heaven, but I'm not sure about werewolves.)

[RoOsh]

So....

Now comes the first WIFOM: GA vs. the Wolves tonight.... They know who the GA is and they know who the Seer Is. Who do they kill?
I say Storyteller.

[NAF1138]

I agree. That's probably who the wolves will elect to kill.

Who they should kill is a different matter.

[RoOsh]

Actually it's not a bad choice as far as choices go. Get rid of Story, and they may be able to demoralize the town into stagnation for a while. They can't kill the real GA, it's too risky. The unknowns have to stay alive....

The only choices are julie and storyteller, and of those, they should go for story.
Now if only the GA realizes this as well and goes for the WIFOM...

[NAF1138]

But, if PCM wakes up tomorrow with another reading the game is over (more over than it already is, which is pretty over.)

[RoOsh]

I dunno. I think he'll (foolishly) investigate Winston.
Hopefully he'll investigate one of the GA's and sort that mess out quickly (though that'd leave WINSTON alive for yet ANOTHER Day....)

And if he wastes it on getting a random townie, then it's just WIFOM on Alpha or not?

I don't think the game is over, because once story's gone, I think this town is going to be seriously in trouble when it comes to finding the Alpha.

ETA: Unless the final 3 comes down to Alpha, Seer and GA.
If that's the case, the Wolves are idiots.

[sublight]

Man, about time.

[CatInASuit]

This is getting interesting.

Don't forget the wolves are one mislynch away and the alpha wolf is still in play. The only saving grace is that they did not kill a power role on the first two Nights. If they had it would really be over for the town.

This one is really going to depend on the town keeping it's collective cool, with an added bonus if the GA to out guess the Wolves. However, either side has the ability to throw it away.

[Bear_Nenno]

-_-That's why sometimes you just have to lynch the person clouding the Data streams, even if you're not sure if they're scummy or not (ie: The Bear Nanno Lynch),

All I was trying to do was prevent a tie and get people to vote together. Seems like that's exactly what was going on this most recent Day. I guess I was a couple days early?
Why is it that when I say, "Hey, I will change my vote whomever if you do" I'm automatically a wolf or an asshole. But when people do it 2 Days later, they're all expert strategists.
Maybe if someone would have said "It's too early for that" instead of "Oh shit, Bear's the wolf", things would not have been so "cloudy".
Then all those claims of "newbie panic". How the fuck is a person supposed to act when people he suspects are wolves are getting the rest of the town to say "yea, he must be a wolf because he doesn't want to get lynched and is making accusations"!? "He must be a newbie wolf, because town wouldn't act like that!"
So town should just take it in the ass and let wolves organize lynches against them?

Granted, I wasn't right about everyone I suspected, but nobody else has been 100% either.

With that said, Winston's posts seem less like strategy and more like childish immaturity. What the fuck is wrong with that guy? Meds or no, grow the fuck up.
Or am I just missing his genius?

[RoOsh]

You're missing the genius. Especially if he's a Wolf.

There are different ways to play the Wolves. One is to be the quiet wolf that no one notices, his goal is survival. Remember one mislynch is all they need. Even if it's the VERY LAST one, if the town picks wrong, they're doomed. So how do you sneak a man into the end goal? You cooperate.
You have ANOTHER wolf run interference. The Goal is for THAT wolf to get ALL the attention, to be the big bad asshole/monster that everyone looks at, and no one really looks around at the other players too much, because they're all distracted by the big screaming idiot standing in the middle of the field. Sure, he's going to die, but when he dies, the goal is then the town can look back and analyze "okay, so who's the next scummiest?" and they'll have NO information because all that they talked about was the one distraction.

It's a tactical game as you come down the wire.... Do you sacrifice a few men of your own if you think one or two of your guys might be able to win the whole thing, or do you work as a team to try to out muscle the Town by keeping everyone alive and well? That's why you want someone usually to be an asshole, to be a distractor, and BEST of all- to make the Townies take things personally. If players play EMOTIONALLY and NOT logically that helps the wolves out WAY more, because (as I've said before) almost anything in this game can be justified as being scummy/townie. So if an emotional player lynches someone and that person turns out to be town- then the wolves can start to circle around that player and "build a fake case" where you paint that person as having scummy motivations and being a wolf.
That's the ultimate- to get a 2 for one. Where you convince the town to mislynch, and then you convince them that someone ELSE who's town is the scummy wolf behind it all because of their "actions".

The only bad luck for the wolves- The Seer found one of them out. That's just the worst case scenario. That's why winston's actions didn't have as big an effect- because the town HAD an automatic lynch in place, but he's still been keeping the town from REALLY asking questions (you saw that Ulla started asking Qs and analyzing on like the last 24 hours. Before that everyone's been focused on the GA claims and on winston)
~~~~~~~~~~~~
So now what are you supposed to do when you're going to be lynched and you know you're town?

-Sadly, the best thing to do is to take it like a Townie should. Remember, a Townie WINS WITH THE TEAM. So if he's going to die, he should create a death post, and offer all clarifications, explanations of his thoughts, etc. And then he should try to present his final thoughts, and then he dies. The best thing to do is to question each person who lynches you- as you do NOT want to convince normal townies to vote for you, but rather FORCE the wolves to lynch you. This way, when you die and later on in the game, the voting can be analyzed to see "were people justified in voting for X, or was that a bullshit lynch?"
You have to hope to be avenged down the line, you can't do it yourself. Pissing the town off, and calling people wolves? That gets TOWNIES agitated and they vote for you. And when that happens, it give the wolves that opportunity to go for a 2 for 1. Where they can say LOOK! Y voted for X for a bullshit reason! HE MUST BE SCUM! (if you note that's how PCM voted against me. And if you note, I didn't really hold it against him since he's the seer and all). But then again, I didn't go around trying to prevent my own lynch either because that's NOT what you want to come off as (which now gets into the metagame aspect- of this is what WOLVES should try to act like as well to pretend their townies).

On the whole- emotional players tend to be townies. Angry players are a null tell as wolves can fake anger too. Players who resent being called liars (especially if they're newbies) tend to be townie. Wolves KNOW they're lying from the start of the game. They're playing the game with a bit of distance between them and their role. Townies don't, but they should, because flailing townies that are trying to save their own lives, are just going to hurt the town in the long run.

Consider it thusly: If you had managed to live on your lynch. What do you think would have happened the next Day?
You'd be called out for being a wolf for trying to survive (if you noted that's one thing Winston said vs. me: "If he was a Town, why didn't he try to tie the votes and save himself at the last min?" that's a BULLSHIT outright LIE. Forcing a tie like that if you're a vanilla role is one of the SCUMMIEST things you can do- you won't get night killed by the wolves, but the next morning you WILL be lynched because you basically wasted a day and gave the wolves a free night kill).

So yeah, as a townie you get the short end of the stick, but you have to remember- the Townie's strength lies in NUMBERS. One vanilla isn't a big deal, but a group of vanillas trying to behave and work together as a team is a powerful thing. That's why once I had enough suspicion, there came a tipping point where I realized it'd be more advantageous for me to die, because if I lived another Day, it'd only fuck the town over more because I'd just be lynched again (much like what Winston's going to face).
So I made my final thoughts, tried to present it out there: "Winston is a Wolf, Hostile is a Wolf, Inner stickler is a wolf, and Fisher is def. Town; and I have no read on Kid V or Chucara".

Of course it helps if you have people actually going back and READING these things for analysis.

[RoOsh]

Why is it that when I say, "Hey, I will change my vote whomever if you do" I'm automatically a wolf or an asshole. But when people do it 2 Days later, they're all expert strategists.

They're not expert strategists, they're Sheep right now.

That's why the wolves need to cut off storyteller. If he goes, and the Seer doesn't find a wolf, the Town is SERIOUSLY going to be in trouble, because already- story's tried to lynch Winston, so now he gets another day to play with the Town and run interference and if he's a wolf (try to see if he can cause a mislynch).

Hopefully the Seer will investigate one of the GA's and make it easy on the Town.

[Bear_Nenno]

So what actually is going on during the Night? Are the wolves talking? Can they make plans and talk with each other? Or do they just get to vote via PM to CIAS and that's it?
If they're talking, how/where are they doing it?

On the first post, CIAS mentions that if you have access to other boards, you can only post on them at night:
"2. Posting
You may discuss strategy at Day but not at Night. If you have access to outside boards, you may only post strategy to them by Night. You may not edit your posts."
What is he talking about? What's that all about?

[CatInASuit]

So what actually is going on during the Night? Are the wolves talking? Can they make plans and talk with each other? Or do they just get to vote via PM to CIAS and that's it?
If they're talking, how/where are they doing it?

On the first post, CIAS mentions that if you have access to other boards, you can only post on them at night:
"2. Posting
You may discuss strategy at Day but not at Night. If you have access to outside boards, you may only post strategy to them by Night. You may not edit your posts."
What is he talking about? What's that all about?

Nope, the wolves have their own message board that I am running where they can chat and discuss tactics at Night. I will give out access to it after the game is over so you can see what they were talking about. However, for the moment it is hidden

[RoOsh]

Yeah.
If you're a wolf you get your own message board, where you can put whatever you want in there.
(I like keeping track of roles, identies, players in one area, and then strategy and thoughts in another).

But you plan during the night what you wanna do. If you have any powers you can use them at night. And you vote on who to kill (with the Alpha having the tiebreaking vote).

That's why after the first Night wolves get lethal, as they can secretly plan at night HOW they wanna behave, and if they wanna coordinate to try to vote someone out or something.

Masons in some game also have this power- at night they can talk on their own boards as well (but they usually have no powers), so they again can share notes, and thoughts with each other on who they think are wolves and such.

That's usually the standard setups. Basically they've got their own war room where they can do whatever they want during the night. That's why Night usually a couple days long so they can discuss strategy. But for the wolves- they can only do so at NIGHT. During the day, they have to post fluff in there (like what we're doing here during the night).

[CatInASuit]

I cannot wait until this Night is shown.

Seriously, I can't

[tirial]

Wow - either the GA got it right, or the wolves got it horribly wrong. Looks like the game's back in contention.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Wow - either the GA got it right, or the wolves got it horribly wrong. Looks like the game's back in contention.

Dollars to dog testicles that both targeted story. He was a juicy target, as both a leader and a confirmed townie.

[CatInASuit]

There may be a requirement for a Sub in the endgame.

Late in the day I know but if you are interested and unspoiled, please PM me.

[Hostile Dialect]

Is it safe to claim here?

[RoOsh]

No.
This is supposed to be unspoiled.

[RoOsh]

I think with the substitution, the Town is really going to come down to a 3 way lynching of the Alpha. -_- I hope they pick right. Or if we get one more blocked kill it'd make things easier.

[jali]

Go town! Go!

[tirial]

Two in succession - a few more and the pub might be able to re-upholster!

[NAF1138]

My guess is that town will not mislynch for the rest of the game.

[RoOsh]

So... again- the nightly WIFOM:

Who will the GA protect and who will the Scum target?

I think they'll go for the GA tonight, and she'll protect the Seer. The scum have been burned once before now, they need the GA gone.

So here's the WIFOM: Should the GA protect herself knowing that? (since she pulled off the Storyteller save BRILLIANTLY)


*The town will mislynch trying to find the Alpha.
[spoiler:3j0un0vl]Cookies totally bussed Inner Stickler with that "Damn!" comment. I think she was hoping to make it seem like a scum slip, and some people have been toying around with that idea. I think they're gonna think IS is the Alpha and lynch him first.[/spoiler:3j0un0vl]

[NAF1138]

I think that town MAY mislynch trying to find the alpha, but I like to bet the long odds.

This town has enough information now that, I think, who the alpha is should be obvious if you go back and look at the other caught scum's posts. I could be wrong though.

[RoOsh]

Or if you go through one Dead guy's post. One Dead guy who called it from like... Day 1.
But who would be THAT awesome?

[NAF1138]

Well...no one. No one would be that awesome. (Where is the hangs head in shame smiley when you need it?)

[RoOsh]

Wait. You sure?
[spoiler:1vscifrg]Dammit! I didn't follow up on it.... (But I totally had him pegged at scum cuz of the 3rd vote rule. (-_-) Even if no one else would buy it. In a newbie game, it'd totally fly![/spoiler:1vscifrg]

[Rabid Renaissance]

Can I be spoiled now?

[CatInASuit]

Well, it is still vaguely possible for the scum to win, but its an awful lot harder than it was a few Nights ago.

The town can afford a mislynch, the scum cannot afford to miss their Night Kill.

[RoOsh]

:exhales:

And that... is why you don't want story around for the Endgame
I feel pretty good right now about the Town's chances thanks to some excellent playing by the GA and a poor choice for the Wolves last night (shoulda gone with Story of the masons if they HAD to take a mason out, or tried to take out the GA if they wanted to be risky).

Also, HostilePaul- one person doesn't constitute a "train" when there's only 7 people left. (-_-) Why almost 30% of the votes were on Winston at that time sure, but you gotta take a look at how many people are left. T'was a nice try though....

[Julie]

Gosh, I'm dead.

[RoOsh]

ffers Cake:
Welcome to the Club.

[RoOsh]

*Reads story analysis*

:wipes a tear from his eye: AND THAT... is why Story is my hero when I used to read these games. Why didn't anyone kill him night 2???
:bows to a Master: (Though... I did try to point going back to the votes... but my words are like a blunt rock on fire compared to Storyteller's precision napalm strikes).

also, HostilePaul- just waiting to vote AFTER the majority... Kinda Scummy there, dude. Plus, they could all end up voting for YOU. Best to make your vote earlier and try to justify it as a more townie way to play.

[Claptree]

Holy crap, he's analyzing the shit out of that mother. Very instructive reading.

[RoOsh]

It's how Mafia SHOULD be played.
Analysis analysis analysis!

[RoOsh]

It's why I got into the Straight Dope Mafia, because the Dopers were just the MOST over analytical anal players I'd EVER seen. It was brilliant watching them over think every little detail....
Good times.

[Rabid Renaissance]

It was painful, but that M3(?) game was very satisfying. It was my analysis opus.

[CatInASuit]

It was painful, but that M3(?) game was very satisfying. It was my analysis opus.

It was M3, the village of Sekham. It was superb and there was a lot of cheering in the forbidden thread on that final Day.

[NAF1138]

It was painful, but that M3(?) game was very satisfying. It was my analysis opus.

It was M3, the village of Sekham. It was superb and there was a lot of cheering in the forbidden thread on that final Day.

Seekham was M5 (BlaM's game). M3 was Kinder and Gentler.

[tirial]

Seekham was M5 (BlaM's game). M3 was Kinder and Gentler.

In name only.

I'm going back to watch storyteller unravel the last few days. It's brilliant.
On a side note, why is he still alive? I thought rule no.1 of mafia was to always kill storyteller early unless he's on your side - which makes for a short game for story.

[RoOsh]

Because the Scum aren't that familiar with playing mafia with the Regulars I think.... All of the scum have played, but I don't think they've had the fear of the original games implanted into them. Plus, Story DID manage to get me lynched (I'm still waiting for his Day 3 analysis of my lynch were basically he'll see I was right and he was wrong dammit!)
I really was suprised though, the first 4 people to kill were:
Me, NAF, Boozy, and Story. When Story was left, I figured he HAD to be scummy cuz I wasn't scum but someone was being smart by bumping off the more experienced players..... But yeah.
Now they'll know why you should ALWAYS kill story by Day 2 if he's town.

[RoOsh]

Good man that PCM. Basically all but saying "Protect Storyteller" and playing above his own position.

Even if Fisher doesn't, PCM's set up the Midnight WIFOM for the wolves. THAT'S the sort of play I FULLY approve of as a Townie.
GREAT Going!

[tirial]

Looks like dead Winston. Wish he hadn't posted that other thread this morning about the dog.

I'm feeling really guilty about the lynch scene image in my head

[NAF1138]

BTW, signups for a Dr. Horrible Themed game just started here.

Storyteller is in, I am in, sachertorte is in, KidV, FCoD is in is running it...this will not be your typical mafia game.

Sign up.

:looks at Roosh:
I don't care that you are in med school, just do it.