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Thread: Can a nation act altruistically?

  1. #1
    Content Generator AllWalker's avatar
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    Default Can a nation act altruistically?

    Now, I know that many nations will every now and then be nice, in the form of financial aid, medicine, military security, etc. But is it possible for a nation to, at least most of the time, place the needs of others ahead of their own?

    To give an example, Australia has been sending peacekeeping soldiers to East Timor for a while, without which the Indonesians would never have allowed them to become independent. That's nice. But then, the government is harvesting oil that is clearly within the maritime boundary of East Timor.

    The specifics of the example are unimportant, but I'm sure you get the idea.

    Bonuse question: can a superpower act altruistically? Some "Manifest Destiny" types will claim that the USA is an altruistic superpower, but I don'tt hink I can agree with that assessment.
    Something tells me we haven't seen the last of foreshadowing.

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    Stegodon
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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    In terms of foreign policy, I seriously doubt it. At least not all the time. Until there's "world peace" you'll always be pissing off some nation or group. The things we do for other nations, more often than not have ulterior motives. You'll be giving someone the short end of the stick, especially if acting within the idea of the "greater good".

    Altruism isn't a black and white thing either. There'll always be gray areas. I believe the US Constitution is an altruistic document in concept, but even within our own country for over 200 years, the members of government and the private sector act selfishly and bend and twist the rules for their own means. It all comes down to human nature, and while one can rise to altruism, I don't think everyone can, or even wants to (or even if they do, can they maintain it?)
    ????

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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    You may need to adjust your example.
    It may be hard for most of the (US) users to understand the concept of a country sending troops to a country for the sake of oil. (i kid, i kid!)

    In all honesty though, my first thought was "No, a country won't do something like that unless they have something to gain", but then i thought even if they do something just for the goodness of other people. they'd gain "brownie points" for being nice anyway.
    Maybe that's a bit cynical but i think before any country takes any action they know exactly how everyone else is going to view it.
    And if it just so happens they are doing something that is "right" and it ends up being "good" for them, well then they are just going to look like they were "playing the game".

    However now i think there are plenty of possibilities for altruism.
    If the US had given assistance to Sudan with the intention of actually helping Sudan, I'm sure things would be better there and there would be no obvious gain to the US.

    So i think that a nation CAN act altruistically, i just don't think they will (on a large scale)

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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    A nation has no friends, only interests! --Charles de Gaulle (paraphrased)

    It is the responsibility of a government to protect the interests of its people. It is possible, but rare, for a people to decide to act altruistically. It is possible, and common, for the well-being of one people to be contributory to the well-being of another people. For a government to act in support of an people not its own when neither of the above cases is true is an abrogation of its duty to its people, and probably politically foolish in a democracy.

  5. #5
    Sophmoric Existentialist
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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    Reading about one of my fave guys, Lord Castlereagh, who was Britain's foreign secretary at the time of the Congress of Vienna, I came across something he said that I had forgotten:

    "The avowed and true policy of Great Britain in the existing State of the World is to secure, if possible, for all states a long interval of repose."

    It was Castlereagh who got the Treaty of Ghent into the form it finallly took - and one result of that Treaty, of course, was to create the long and "undefended" border between Canada and the US. The treaty allowed the US to come away from the table with its head up, not crushed by British demands for territory or reparations from the War of 1812.

    Was it "altruistic"? Close enough, I think.
    Sophmoric Existentialist

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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    A nation has responsibilities to its citizens which may be incompatible with a general far-reaching policy of altruism. For altruistic policies will tend to send a nation's resources out to other nations, with no expected return for the nation itself, and so no expected return for its citizens. This does not seem to be in keeping with the purpose a nation is supposed to serve.
    I am Frylock at the SDMB.

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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    Quote Originally posted by Speusippus
    A nation has responsibilities to its citizens which may be incompatible with a general far-reaching policy of altruism. For altruistic policies will tend to send a nation's resources out to other nations, with no expected return for the nation itself, and so no expected return for its citizens. This does not seem to be in keeping with the purpose a nation is supposed to serve.
    Howdy, Frylock!

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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    I agree with Excalibre.

  9. #9
    Stegodon
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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    For one nation to be altruistic successfully, all nations would have to be. This is also why revolution has to be global.

  10. #10
    Oliphaunt The Original An Gadaí's avatar
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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    What about small nations sending out their defence forces as part of UN peacekeeping missions?

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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    Quote Originally posted by The J Word
    However now i think there are plenty of possibilities for altruism.
    If the US had given assistance to Sudan with the intention of actually helping Sudan, I'm sure things would be better there and there would be no obvious gain to the US.

    So i think that a nation CAN act altruistically, i just don't think they will (on a large scale)
    But even in the Sudan scenario you can make a good case for assisting based on national interest: It is beneficial to the security of the United States for there to be less failed and impoverished states, where extremism can breed.

    I guess technically there is no reason that a nation couldn't act altruistically, meaning that its elected representatives vote for helping another place out, just because they have empathy with the suffering of its people. In practice however I suspect all decisions of these sorts do to some degree take into account national security and other political considerations.

    I don't consider that a bad thing at all. In fact I believe the United States has a very real long term stake in the success of poorer nations, and this should be an important foreign policy consideration.
    No Gods, No Masters

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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    Quote Originally posted by An Gadaí
    What about small nations sending out their defence forces as part of UN peacekeeping missions?
    Depending on the nation, there is still quite a large scope for this activity to be in one's own self interest.

    For example, I believe the nation of Botswana has assisted the UN with a presence in the Sudan and other African countries. While altruism in the form of wanting to help fellow Africans in distress may be a factor, just off the top of my head I can imagine multiple self-interest reasons for doing this:
    • A stable and prosperous African continent, with zero to few "hotspots", is important to Botswana's security, and essential to growing it's economy.[/*:m:l7ineeuq]
    • Being a part of join operations with prominent world powers will increase the country's political capital abroad, and is an important part of establishing themselves as a player in world affairs.[/*:m:l7ineeuq]
    • The experience, combat or otherwise, of being part of a large international operation may prove invaluable for a smaller, less mature, defense force.[/*:m:l7ineeuq]
    No Gods, No Masters

  13. #13
    Mammuthus primigenius eleanorigby's avatar
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    Default Re: Can a nation act altruistically?

    I read the tittle as "Can a nation act autistically?" and :?

    I need more sleep.

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